You Paid and Princess Listened

[caribill]

Well Ethel 5, that is a very interesting statement, in that if you didn't feel the least bit "special"'''.

 

The double negative got to you. Ethel5 says she has felt special on every cruise.

 

I betcha there are plenty of people like me who don't need the cruise line to make then feel special. I haven't not felt special on 38 cruises-28 on Princess.:)

[Ethel5]

The double negative got to you. Ethel5 says she has felt special on every cruise.

 

Thank you for translating!:) I shouldn't post when tired. Yes, the double negative made a mess of what I was trying to convey. My point was that I don't need to pay inflated prices to feel special on a cruise. I have always received great service and enjoyed the included amenities. Even when my cabin was flooded and unusable during the day for 10 out of 14 days, I still felt well cared for.:)

[Grego]

Thank you for translating!:) I shouldn't post when tired. Yes, the double negative made a mess of what I was trying to convey. My point was that I don't need to pay inflated prices to feel special on a cruise. I have always received great service and enjoyed the included amenities. Even when my cabin was flooded and unusable during the day for 10 out of 14 days, I still felt well cared for.:)

 

I got it the way you wrote it.....must have been tired when I read it, but I knew what you meant. We have always has experience of feeling special on Princess, possibly because we tend to treat the crew as important and value their effort. Aside from that, we just love being aboard the ship and won't let anything ruin that for us, even the chronic complainers.

[billco]

I got it the way you wrote it.....must have been tired when I read it, but I knew what you meant. We have always has experience of feeling special on Princess, possibly because we tend to treat the crew as important and value their effort. Aside from that, we just love being aboard the ship and won't let anything ruin that for us, even the chronic complainers.

Exactly the way we feel. If all the things people complain about got to us, we wouldn't have done so many cruises and continue to look forward to more.

[Ethel5]

I got it the way you wrote it.....must have been tired when I read it, but I knew what you meant. We have always has experience of feeling special on Princess, possibly because we tend to treat the crew as important and value their effort. Aside from that, we just love being aboard the ship and won't let anything ruin that for us, even the chronic complainers.

 

That's the key-I treat the crew with respect and they know I value their efforts on my behalf. :)

[PescadoAmarillo]

Princess currently has 43874 lower berths to fill every day and almost all the time the ships do sail near this capacity.

 

You want Princess to increase the rates for 43874 passengers a day. I suspect they would have a much harder time filling their ships.

 

They may be able to fill that gap, but they would no longer be able to fill the ships.

I'll concede that 44k berths won't get filled at significantly higher prices. But Celebrity and HAL are getting 20-25% more revenue per passenger and are now offering promotions where tips and/or drinks and/or shore excursion credits are included. Princess is trialing that pricing strategy in the British Isles. They were just forced to reverse usage charges. I think the trend is going to be for higher, more inclusive cruise fares at some price point and I will welcome that as a means to preserve the vacation experience I love.

 

I do not know how this devolved into a "treating the crew with respect and complaining about complainers" discussion with regards to making me feel special on a cruise, but I have never not (that means I always have ;)) treated the crew with respect and don't even notice complainers let alone take glee in reporting about them back here (as many do), but I've done that even on cruises where I haven't felt particularly special (my early Princess cruises immediately come to mind), so I'm not certain it's a causative factor.

[shredie]

I do not know how this devolved into a "treating the crew with respect and complaining about complainers" discussion with regards to making me feel special on a cruise,

 

Threads devolve. :D "Feeling special" is a subjective thing, I think. Would a crew member on an all-inclusive line make me feel any different from what a Princess crew member does? I don't know--having not cruised the all-inclusives--but I don't think I would feel all that "special" if I knew I were getting attention solely for the amount of money I spent. Even the word "special" makes me somewhat uncomfortable. Am I "better" than or "more deserving" than my regular on shore self would be if I weren't on a ship spending money? In any case, I am generally happy with the service I get on Princess (with some very few exceptions.)

[RDC1]

I'll concede that 44k berths won't get filled at significantly higher prices. But Celebrity and HAL are getting 20-25% more revenue per passenger and are now offering promotions where tips and/or drinks and/or shore excursion credits are included. Princess is trialing that pricing strategy in the British Isles. They were just forced to reverse usage charges. I think the trend is going to be for higher, more inclusive cruise fares at some price point and I will welcome that as a means to preserve the vacation experience I love.

 

I do not know how this devolved into a "treating the crew with respect and complaining about complainers" discussion with regards to making me feel special on a cruise, but I have never not (that means I always have ;)) treated the crew with respect and don't even notice complainers let alone take glee in reporting about them back here (as many do), but I've done that even on cruises where I haven't felt particularly special (my early Princess cruises immediately come to mind), so I'm not certain it's a causative factor.

 

Take a look at the prices Celebrity charges on board and you can see why they run 17.7% higher then Princess. Specialty Dining is $45-50 instead of Princess's $25. Drinks tend to run higher as well. My coffee drink was $5.50 on Celebrity compared to $3.50 on Princess.

 

Both Celebrity at 24,320 and Holland America at 23,125 are considerably smaller lines than Princess. Celebrity has also used things like their Aqua class , with its own dining venue as a way to increase prices on some veranda cabins. They have run some recent initiatives such as their 1,2,3 programs to maintain high base prices, instead of discounting. Then they turned around and raised drink prices and reduced what the drink packages offered (far more cost impact then what passengers would have experienced with the failed attempt by Princess to charge for Alfredo's and room service).

[I_r_a]

Hey SW,

 

>I remember when ... the price of an inside cabin was more than the cost of a balcony is today. <

 

For my first cruise, 1966, I thought that $100/day pp was expensive, but not high for an ocean view cabin.

 

That's about $700/day pp today.

 

Ira

[SeaTheWorldBySea]

I'll concede that 44k berths won't get filled at significantly higher prices. But Celebrity and HAL are getting 20-25% more revenue per passenger and are now offering promotions where tips and/or drinks and/or shore excursion credits are included. Princess is trialing that pricing strategy in the British Isles. They were just forced to reverse usage charges. I think the trend is going to be for higher, more inclusive cruise fares at some price point and I will welcome that as a means to preserve the vacation experience I love.

 

I do not know how this devolved into a "treating the crew with respect and complaining about complainers" discussion with regards to making me feel special on a cruise, but I have never not (that means I always have ;)) treated the crew with respect and don't even notice complainers let alone take glee in reporting about them back here (as many do), but I've done that even on cruises where I haven't felt particularly special (my early Princess cruises immediately come to mind), so I'm not certain it's a causative factor.

 

Please don't take this wrong - I only mean to ask a question, not to be sarcastic. If I am reading your posts right, it sounds like you are not happy with Princess as it is now and would like for Princess to change to be more inclusive like Celebrity and HAL. We really don't want to see that happen, increasing our base price to pay for others to have all the alcohol they want, all the high priced steak dinners they want, etc. A lower base price and pay for use works well for us! Do you plan to cruise again with Princess or are you changing to a more AI line?

[PescadoAmarillo]

Please don't take this wrong - I only mean to ask a question, not to be sarcastic. If I am reading your posts right, it sounds like you are not happy with Princess as it is now and would like for Princess to change to be more inclusive like Celebrity and HAL. We really don't want to see that happen, increasing our base price to pay for others to have all the alcohol they want, all the high priced steak dinners they want, etc. A lower base price and pay for use works well for us! Do you plan to cruise again with Princess or are you changing to a more AI line?

 

First, Princess has signaled a change. They may have reversed their decision, but their need to increase revenue doesn't go away because they did.

 

Understanding the reality of inflation, I see that Princess has three options: add additional usage-based charges, increase cruise fares or further diminish the Princess cruise experience. Of these, I prefer, in this order, raise the cruise fare, add usage based charges or... Well, there is no or; we will not continue to cruise Princess if their cruise experience is diminished.

 

I was not one who was up in arms about the usage based charges. I would have had no problem with fees for room service or Alfredos (and won't, when they inevitably make their return). I have to point to when RC started charging for their Chops steaks in their regular dining room...everyone on the Princess board thought that was horrendous, but we experienced it and loved being able to do that. Really loved it. DH got his very tasty and tender steak and I didn't have to pay to eat a specialty meal I really didn't want. On Princess, he seldom gets a really good steak in the dining room, and I have no interest in going to the Crown Grill (and have read, more often than not, where that's been a disappointing experience for people).

 

The problem with usage based fees, however, whether they personally work for me or not, are that they allow the further degradation of complimentary experiences. We were on the Allure for 7 nights and did not pay extra for food. While there were some decent offerings in the dining room, overall it was bad. Really bad. People tend to tolerate usage based fees as long as it's not for something THEY use; when it is, then there's an uproar. As rdsqrl perfectly paraphrased Niemoller early on in this debate: "First they charged for room service, and I did not complain, because I don't use room service...".

 

We return to Princess again and again for several reasons, but, believe it or not, the passenger laundries are close to the top of the list. The whole Captains Circle-MTP recognition appeals to something in DH (but not at all to me). The combinable OBCs make Princess our least expensive cruise line-usually- but, while we are value shoppers, I am a bit less happy with Princess every year. Mostly it's the entertainment offerings, but, honestly, there are other things, too, such as the lack of quality in its mattresses, pillows, bedding, towels, etc. Have you ever been on a beach with people from several different cruise lines and looked at their beach towels? Princess' are the bottom of the barrel, for sure. The buffet, except on the newest ships, is pretty bad. Very little made to order food there. The coffee. The fact that DH couldn't tolerate the taste of the Coke from the soda sticker and finally abandoned getting it altogether.

 

We'll be trying one of the little ships soon, to see if they offer a more upscale experience (because they generally charge higher fares). And we'll definitely return to HAL and Celebrity (which used to be our cruise line of choice). We're not abandoning Princess. The question is whether Princess will abandon us by further degrading the quality of its cruise experience.

[hubofhockey]

We went on the Allure and only went in the MDR twice and never had lunch or breakfast in the buffet. We felt that if you're going to go on a ship like that, you should experience the differences. They had specialty dinner packages. I will say that the Crown Grill is something we look forward to on Princess ships. I've never been disappointed there. It's not Capital Grille or Morton's, but it's solid and I'm not out $150 for the two of us like I am at the top US steakhouses.

[janetz]

On the Allure and Oasis , we did one specialty, never did the Horizon court and ate the rest of our meals in the MDR. Every meal was excellent and I know that food is subjective. For us, it was fine. :)

[Reader0108598]

First, Princess has signaled a change. They may have reversed their decision, but their need to increase revenue doesn't go away because they did.

 

Understanding the reality of inflation, I see that Princess has three options: add additional usage-based charges, increase cruise fares or further diminish the Princess cruise experience. Of these, I prefer, in this order, raise the cruise fare, add usage based charges or... Well, there is no or; we will not continue to cruise Princess if their cruise experience is diminished.

 

I was not one who was up in arms about the usage based charges. I would have had no problem with fees for room service or Alfredos (and won't, when they inevitably make their return). I have to point to when RC started charging for their Chops steaks in their regular dining room...everyone on the Princess board thought that was horrendous, but we experienced it and loved being able to do that. Really loved it. DH got his very tasty and tender steak and I didn't have to pay to eat a specialty meal I really didn't want. On Princess, he seldom gets a really good steak in the dining room, and I have no interest in going to the Crown Grill (and have read, more often than not, where that's been a disappointing experience for people).

 

The problem with usage based fees, however, whether they personally work for me or not, are that they allow the further degradation of complimentary experiences. We were on the Allure for 7 nights and did not pay extra for food. While there were some decent offerings in the dining room, overall it was bad. Really bad. People tend to tolerate usage based fees as long as it's not for something THEY use; when it is, then there's an uproar. As rdsqrl perfectly paraphrased Niemoller early on in this debate: "First they charged for room service, and I did not complain, because I don't use room service...".

 

We return to Princess again and again for several reasons, but, believe it or not, the passenger laundries are close to the top of the list. The whole Captains Circle-MTP recognition appeals to something in DH (but not at all to me). The combinable OBCs make Princess our least expensive cruise line-usually- but, while we are value shoppers, I am a bit less happy with Princess every year. Mostly it's the entertainment offerings, but, honestly, there are other things, too, such as the lack of quality in its mattresses, pillows, bedding, towels, etc. Have you ever been on a beach with people from several different cruise lines and looked at their beach towels? Princess' are the bottom of the barrel, for sure. The buffet, except on the newest ships, is pretty bad. Very little made to order food there. The coffee. The fact that DH couldn't tolerate the taste of the Coke from the soda sticker and finally abandoned getting it altogether.

 

We'll be trying one of the little ships soon, to see if they offer a more upscale experience (because they generally charge higher fares). And we'll definitely return to HAL and Celebrity (which used to be our cruise line of choice). We're not abandoning Princess. The question is whether Princess will abandon us by further degrading the quality of its cruise experience.

 

 

Excellent post!

Edited June 1, 2014 by Reader0108598

[RDC1]

First, Princess has signaled a change. They may have reversed their decision, but their need to increase revenue doesn't go away because they did.

 

Understanding the reality of inflation, I see that Princess has three options: add additional usage-based charges, increase cruise fares or further diminish the Princess cruise experience. Of these, I prefer, in this order, raise the cruise fare, add usage based charges or... Well, there is no or; we will not continue to cruise Princess if their cruise experience is diminished.

 

I was not one who was up in arms about the usage based charges. I would have had no problem with fees for room service or Alfredos (and won't, when they inevitably make their return). I have to point to when RC started charging for their Chops steaks in their regular dining room...everyone on the Princess board thought that was horrendous, but we experienced it and loved being able to do that. Really loved it. DH got his very tasty and tender steak and I didn't have to pay to eat a specialty meal I really didn't want. On Princess, he seldom gets a really good steak in the dining room, and I have no interest in going to the Crown Grill (and have read, more often than not, where that's been a disappointing experience for people).

 

The problem with usage based fees, however, whether they personally work for me or not, are that they allow the further degradation of complimentary experiences. We were on the Allure for 7 nights and did not pay extra for food. While there were some decent offerings in the dining room, overall it was bad. Really bad. People tend to tolerate usage based fees as long as it's not for something THEY use; when it is, then there's an uproar. As rdsqrl perfectly paraphrased Niemoller early on in this debate: "First they charged for room service, and I did not complain, because I don't use room service...".

 

We return to Princess again and again for several reasons, but, believe it or not, the passenger laundries are close to the top of the list. The whole Captains Circle-MTP recognition appeals to something in DH (but not at all to me). The combinable OBCs make Princess our least expensive cruise line-usually- but, while we are value shoppers, I am a bit less happy with Princess every year. Mostly it's the entertainment offerings, but, honestly, there are other things, too, such as the lack of quality in its mattresses, pillows, bedding, towels, etc. Have you ever been on a beach with people from several different cruise lines and looked at their beach towels? Princess' are the bottom of the barrel, for sure. The buffet, except on the newest ships, is pretty bad. Very little made to order food there. The coffee. The fact that DH couldn't tolerate the taste of the Coke from the soda sticker and finally abandoned getting it altogether.

 

We'll be trying one of the little ships soon, to see if they offer a more upscale experience (because they generally charge higher fares). And we'll definitely return to HAL and Celebrity (which used to be our cruise line of choice). We're not abandoning Princess. The question is whether Princess will abandon us by further degrading the quality of its cruise experience.

 

Depending upon how you define entertainment Celebrity seems to have cut back far more than Princess. At night you pretty much have the main theater and the lounges around the Atrium with either a band or a DJ and not much else. While they have acrobatics to their productions they seemed to be forced and disrupted the show flow.

[Sox Fan Cruiser]

I've lost total understanding of the meaning of this thread.

 

Princess is not a charity. It has a responsibility to it's shareholders to make money.

[Reader0108598]

I've lost total understanding of the meaning of this thread.

 

Princess is not a charity. It has a responsibility to it's shareholders to make money.[/quote

 

 

Princess or any company for that matter only cares about the bottom line. They do not care about the individual.

I am not loyal to any one company as they are not loyal to me .

Edited June 1, 2014 by Reader0108598

[Ethel5]

I've lost total understanding of the meaning of this thread.

 

Princess is not a charity. It has a responsibility to it's shareholders to make money.

 

In a nutshell....

 

There are those who want all of us to spend more money on the cruise fare so they can get an upscale experience including booze and specialty dining.

 

Then there are those who want "a pay as you go" for just the amenities they will use thus keeping the fare reasonable.

[Love.II.Cruise]

Well, sorry, but can't take those out very easily. Since Regent provides free coach RT air (free business class for butler service levels and higher) while business class with Princess is $6,461 minus $1,000. air fee credit. And since we are traveling business class with Regent we are paying $2,600. extra. One night pre-cruise in a luxury hotel plus transfers with Regent is included in base price of cruise while on Princess we are paying $506.00 for transfers and hotel. With Princess however, our air is Anchorage to Copenhagen and New York to Anchorage while with Regent it is only business class Seattle to Lisbon and for the Miami to Anchorage segment and Anchorage to Seattle segment we used our mileage with Alaska Airlines, 1st class, although we could have had free coach with Regent from Miami to Seattle. See what I mean by it being difficult to compare?

 

Here are a couple of comparison links that might help: The first link is for an Alaskan voyage which compares Regent, HAL, Princes and Celebrity. The other two references compare three lines where a lot of the expense is included in the initial payment, for each of them. Now, note, that these numbers are provided by Regent therefore might be subject to some bias. However, having cruised extensively on all three (Regent, Princess & HAL are the only lines we use), I find these estimates are not too far off the mark. E.G. we recently got off a 30 day South Pacific with HAL. They had just changed their wine policy so you can't bring your own on board anymore, without paying a stiff penalty per bottle. At the rates HAL now charges for liquor, you really don't have to be much of a boozer at all for two people to rack up an over $1,500. wine bill on a thirty day voyage. With Regent, that is all included, and better wine to boot.

 

 

https://www.rssc.com/media/experience/pdfs/ValueComparison_Alaska.pdf

https://www.rssc.com/agent/media/agentcenter/promotionalpieces/2015_Mediterranean_Comparison.pdf

https://www.rssc.com/media/experience/pdfs/ValueComparison_NorthernEurope.pdf

 

Thanks for the info on this!

Edited June 1, 2014 by Love.II.Cruise

[Loonbeam]

There's never going to be a settled answer for this, because everyone's priorities are different, including the cruise lines.

 

Using us as an example - Adding a $10 charge to Alfredos including a drink is horrible for us, because we don't drink. But for someone who does, its a better deal than adding a $5 charge for everyone, as an example. Or raising cruise fares $20 and keeping it free, which is a benefit to those who might use it daily, but penalizes those who do not.

 

Adding a $3 room service charge affects me not at all, I think we have used it twice on 5 cruises. But for some people, it could be a decent amount over time.

 

You could say the same thing about pretty much anything that either is currently included in the fare or could be.

 

Which is why, in most cases, you should look for the line that includes as much of what matches your preference in a fare you are willing to pay and/or charges fees for what you will use in accordance with what you are willing to pay.

 

Right now, Princess meets that model for us in most cases, so that's where we cruise. If it doesn't, we'll find one that does, or get as close as we can. And someone else will take the cabin we would have cruised in, possibly the person who's cabin we took on the other line because of a change they made.

 

The lines will always operate on one principle. Where can we raise revenue that will annoy the least number of people to the point where they leave us and go somewhere else. Note that said nothing about making people happy. It said annoying the least number of people. They know every change will potential cause people to leave the brand, and for the most part they don't care.

[PescadoAmarillo]

Depending upon how you define entertainment Celebrity seems to have cut back far more than Princess. At night you pretty much have the main theater and the lounges around the Atrium with either a band or a DJ and not much else. While they have acrobatics to their productions they seemed to be forced and disrupted the show flow.

I don't think it's possible to get worse than a 30 minute ventriloquist show in the Princess Theater, music trivia in Explorers and a DJ in Club Fusion who was on a break.

[RDC1]

I don't think it's possible to get worse than a 30 minute ventriloquist show in the Princess Theater, music trivia in Explorers and a DJ in Club Fusion who was on a break.

 

Try a 1 hour show, no trivia, no second act in a different venue, and a DJ in the atrium surrounded by lounges. I have always found that I had atleast two and sometimes three choices at any given time in the evening on Princess in addition to the lounge venues such as the piano bar or Wheelhouse.. On my recent Celebrity cruise nothing other than the main show and the lounges. No trivia, No game shows, no alternative show in a different venue. Maybe a late night comedy show 3 of the 12 nights.

 

Celebrity just eliminated most of their activity staffs.

Edited June 2, 2014 by RDC1

[kennicott]

CRUZSNOOZE--Was the OP--Here are his main concerns:

 

"People -- you shot yourself in the foot so to speak when you accepted ridiculous $100 PP prices for a "chef's table" dinner and specialty restaurants and paying for special coffee and special gelato so why would you think the cruise lines will stop putting more pay venues on board.-------So if people stop using the pay venues they will shrink and/or disappear but as long a people pay why not? I'm going to take a better look at cruise lines that are all inclusive. When I do the math they are a better price and experience."

 

So what is this thread all about? As I interpret most of these posts, they generally follow two schools of thought. The two, maybe most accurately represented by:

 

(1) SILLYJILLY: "If that helps keep the base cruise price down then I'm all for it. Helps us poor people get on board and allows those with the means to dine and drink better."

 

AND:

 

(2) LESDISIC: " I am "one of those" who are quite willing to pay an increased fare to keep certain things which I consider as "the cruising experience", although I rarely use things like room service, entertainers, afternoon tea, trivia, etc., I believe its these things that set cruising apart from a standard hotel experience. The only things , to my mind , to charge extra for is the Spa, excursions and alcohol. But, here lies the problem. Most seem to want a cheaper base price, and choose not to have anything included (although will complain when they go up in price or get removed), and everyones wants are different. I, therefore, can only see a relentless crusade to nickel and dime everything they can to please that majority who wont accept anything but a cheap base price. These threads will continue for as long as cruising exists, which in itself detracts from what cruising is all about, and is making the premium lines seem more attractive as the nickel & diming has already happened within the base price, so one can get on and enjoy cruising once again."

 

As for me, I hang with Lesdisic. Except for the wine that is, I like the way Regent does it, wine included in base price.

[Ethel5]

there's never going to be a settled answer for this, because everyone's priorities are different, including the cruise lines.

 

Using us as an example - adding a $10 charge to alfredos including a drink is horrible for us, because we don't drink. But for someone who does, its a better deal than adding a $5 charge for everyone, as an example. Or raising cruise fares $20 and keeping it free, which is a benefit to those who might use it daily, but penalizes those who do not.

 

Adding a $3 room service charge affects me not at all, i think we have used it twice on 5 cruises. But for some people, it could be a decent amount over time.

 

You could say the same thing about pretty much anything that either is currently included in the fare or could be.

 

Which is why, in most cases, you should look for the line that includes as much of what matches your preference in a fare you are willing to pay and/or charges fees for what you will use in accordance with what you are willing to pay.

 

Right now, princess meets that model for us in most cases, so that's where we cruise. If it doesn't, we'll find one that does, or get as close as we can. And someone else will take the cabin we would have cruised in, possibly the person who's cabin we took on the other line because of a change they made.

 

The lines will always operate on one principle. Where can we raise revenue that will annoy the least number of people to the point where they leave us and go somewhere else. Note that said nothing about making people happy. It said annoying the least number of people. They know every change will potential cause people to leave the brand, and for the most part they don't care.

 

Bravo!

[SoCal Cruiser78]

...Celebrity just eliminated most of their activity staffs.

 

Sorry to hear that. I haven't sailed on X since 2005, but felt at that time the CD and activity staff were a strong suit, along with food quality. It seems everyone is cutting costs these days.

 

With that said, I am determined to have a great time on my first Princess cruise this September!