You Paid and Princess Listened

[caribill]

 

While CCL is a much larger company currently a share if its stock is about $40 while a share of RCL is about $55.

 

Size of a company has nothing to do with its share price.

 

Profitability and number of shares do.

[caribill]

Princess was reacting to the comments. Their response implied that the changes will still occur, just announced and implemented differently.

 

 

I can see the press release:

 

Princess proud to announce it will be the first cruise company to charge for every room service delivery 24-hours a day.

 

This will include every time the complementary fruit bowl is restocked as well as when a cup of coffee (made from a syrup) is delivered in the morning.

 

This will affect all Princess cruises starting xx/xx/xxxx.

[RDC1]

I can see the press release:

 

Princess proud to announce it will be the first cruise company to charge for every room service delivery 24-hours a day.

 

This will include every time the complementary fruit bowl is restocked as well as when a cup of coffee (made from a syrup) is delivered in the morning.

 

This will affect all Princess cruises starting xx/xx/xxxx.

 

I expect that it will appear at some point in the subtext on the web site and in the cruise documents. Everyone will then be trained to refer everyone to the documents that they all had access to. Similar to how they have introduced other changes in the past. It will then be rolled out ship by ship.

[Loonbeam]

Short answer? It works. And psychologically, the effect is often the opposite, especially for new cruisers. "Wow, I only spent $50 for this cruise per day, so what's a $7 drink...."

 

The airlines have long since proved that when people are footing their own bill, they look to the lowest price, even if it means giving up things. The vast majority of travelers do not check ancillary costs, they look at advertised price. For evidence, just look anecdotally at people who think the MDR is an upcharge and still book, they are not going to care if Alfredos or room service is, their expectation is the buffet is what they get.

 

 

 

 

What I find a little strange in strategy is that they are pandering to those who want a cheap base price, and those very people are the ones who are least likely to spend once on board and add very little to revenue - certainly not when being nickel and dimed as they will choose not to partake in an upcharge service. It will then just alienate those that do or are willing to pay an increase in base fare

 

Please dont flame me - its JMO :)

[Ethel5]

How do you know that none of the additional revenue would get used to enhance the passenger cruise experience? I haven't said that it would, only that, if it didn't, people would not continue to cruise on Princess. But to say with certainty that it wouldn't, I have to wonder at your prescience.

 

People seem to think that there is this thing called the "bottom line" that companies seek to feed at all cost. In reality, Princess has been tasked with providing an ROI to CCL for use of its capital. I suspect that they have a bit of latitude in how they achieve that ROI...higher revenue along with a more premium experience (such as on Seaborne, who is similarly tasked) or lower revenue with a more economical cruise experience (as on Carnival). You don't see Seaborne, with it's higher fares, offering a Carnival experience just to "feed the bottom line". That would last about three months, just as Princess wouldn't be successful raising rates but leaving the "30 minutes of entertainment plus game shows" model unchanged.

 

When I start cruising for $50pp per day but face a barrage of on board selling opportunities, it's time to either move to a more premium cruise line or stop cruising. But there's the rub...the more premium cruise lines aren't $150 or $200 pp per day; they're $450 to $1000 pp per day. The leap is huge, in part because, as others have pointed out, the ships are generally smaller. And somewhere in between the two is where I feel there is a market for all of us who dislike nickel and diming and don't mind paying more for our cruise (those who dislike nickel and diming and still want to pay $50pp per day for their cruise are living in denial).

 

Let's make sure we are talking about the same experience. You suggested earlier that they raise the rates $50/pp/pd. That was where I disagreed with you. Now you're talking about getting a cruise for $50/pp/pd. A cruise for $50/pp/pd is absurd! What you would get is 3 hots and a cot. Again, if you want an all inclusive experience, then pay the price and go to upscale cruise lines with unlimited bar offerings etc. Don't try to convince Princess that this is the way they should go as they will lose their core clients. You can call it an ROI but in reality it is the bottom line they must feed.

[lexdisic]

There was certainly correlation between the Celebrity perks and their base cruise fares, especially since the fees went up mostly on ocean view and above, those that were able to get the perks, where as the inside that could not get them remained fairly flat.

 

On Princess the Correlation seemed to be tied to where they reduced capacity by shifting ships to Asia. Also some increases where they replaced the Emerald by the Royal. Princess has not made any recent changes in the OBC they give. Pretty much the same for the past several years as far as shareholder, veteran, etc. FCC obc values have dropped.

 

A fair percentage of people pick based upon the cruise fare. That does not necessarily mean that they do not spend once they are on board. There is a fairly decent generic look at the breakdown on cruise ship revenue and costs at

 

http://www.cruisemarketwatch.com/home/financial-breakdown-of-typical-cruiser/

 

Thanks for the link - I was looking to find a breakdown like that.

Again looking at the average cabin prices for X - Taking the price hike of Sept 12 - the inside cabin hike was proportionally the same as the OV with the spikes appearing on balconies and suites late last year - so it appears the insides are paying more for and to an extent contributing to the perks they dont receive.

I am hoping that Princess dont follow X into the "free" drinks package perks but at the same time I dont want to lose the "cruising experience" and go down the land hotel route. As for other perks - I would rather they went towards enhancing the cruise experience, even if it is for room service I rarely use, and the entertainment I have yet to go and see instead of giving it away to people who dont even spend it unless its non refundable.

[PescadoAmarillo]

I can see the press release:

 

Princess proud to announce it will be the first cruise company to charge for every room service delivery 24-hours a day.

 

This will include every time the complementary fruit bowl is restocked as well as when a cup of coffee (made from a syrup) is delivered in the morning.

 

This will affect all Princess cruises starting xx/xx/xxxx.

But all those who said it was the way the charges were implemented, not the charges themselves, would have no cause for complaint.

 

Ethel5- I'm quite flattered that you think that anything I post here would be in any way influence Princess. It's like those people who say, "Don't give them any ideas", as if that was possible. They have already considered all of these possibilities and many others. Princess reversing these usage charges doesn't convince me for a minute that others, possibly higher and/or universally applicable, aren't in the near future. But, I guess, as long as they announce them in advance...:rolleyes:

 

I'm simply suggesting what we (my husband and I) are looking for in a cruise line. We are NOT looking for a $50 pp per day rate, before or after OBCs. Or $75. Or $100. We (personally) are looking for more than a bed and three meals we don't have to shop for or prepare ourselves. We want to feel special on a cruise, not to be openly viewed as a revenue stream. But I don't expect that without paying for it in my base cruise fare (it seems others do), and that is what I am saying that WE are willing to do. And I really don't think we are alone in that.

[lexdisic]

Next week 12nights round UK, Ruby.

 

Came down to £399 and the $75pp OBC brought it just under £30pppn.

 

Bargain indeed - could do with that for a Canaries quickie, but DW will only have an OV at least - Our last inside down in the bowels of a HAL ship has put her off insides for good $$:(.

[lexdisic]

 

I'm simply suggesting what we (my husband and I) are looking for in a cruise line. We are NOT looking for a $50 pp per day rate, before or after OBCs. Or $75. Or $100. We (personally) are looking for more than a bed and three meals we don't have to shop for or prepare ourselves. We want to feel special on a cruise, not to be openly viewed as a revenue stream. But I don't expect that without paying for it in my base cruise fare (it seems others do), and that is what I am saying that WE are willing to do. And I really don't think we are alone in that.

 

+ Lots :)

[billco]

I'm simply suggesting what we (my husband and I) are looking for in a cruise line.

I hope you find what you are looking for.

[Iamcruzin]

That is the airline model. Keep adding upcharges without reducing the base fare.

 

Nobody enjoys flying anymore. People fly because they have to get somewhere in a reasonable amount of time for business or (once there) pleasure.

 

The cruise lines should not be implementing upcharges to the point nobody enjoys cruising anymore, not matter how low the base fare remains.

 

 

I am on a JetBlue flight headed for West Palm Beach. Unfortunately the isn't a cruise ship waiting for me on this trip. Any way I just wanted to give a shout out to JetBlue for providing me with free, yes I said free wifi or what they call wifly. I'm able to text and post here on CC. So while their are some airlines that follow the model you speak of there is at least one that gives back.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited May 30, 2014 by Iamcruzin

[Iamcruzin]

I am on a JetBlue flight headed for West Palm Beach. Unfortunately the isn't a cruise ship waiting for me on this trip. Any way I just wanted to give a shout out to JetBlue for providing me with free, yes I said free wifi or what they call wifly. I'm able to text and post here on CC. So while their are some airlines that follow the model you speak of there is at least one that gives back.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

I'm connected to Flyfi not Wifly. I have all the comforts of home TV and CC [emoji4]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RDC1]

As part of this discussion I put together a list of revenue per passenger as reported by cruise market watch.

 

http://www.cruisemarketwatch.com/market-share/

 

CCL 637

Disney 1215

RCL 1420

NCL 1575

Princess 1960

Celebrity 2308

HAL 2469

Oceanic 5359

Cunard 5690

Crystal 5796

Azmara 5984

Seabourne 8150

Regent 11,711

 

Now keep in mind that this is per passenger and has not be adjusted for average cruise lengths and other factors that would impact it in addition to charges.

 

Also keep in mind how much cruise lines have grown. In 2000 total number of cruise passengers was approximately 7.2 million, last year in 2013 it was 30 million.

 

Also when you look at capacity

 

Royal Caribbean 64,048

Carnival 62,368

Princess 40,996

NCL 34,198

 

Kind of shows why Princess is very sensitive to fare hikes when you consider the number of beds they have to fill each week and the overall growth in competition.

 

It will be interesting if Virgin enters the cruise business as far as the price/service model they will follow.

[Love.II.Cruise]

As part of this discussion I put together a list of revenue per passenger as reported by cruise market watch.

 

http://www.cruisemarketwatch.com/market-share/

 

CCL 637

Disney 1215

RCL 1420

NCL 1575

Princess 1960

Celebrity 2308

HAL 2469

Oceanic 5359

Cunard 5690

Crystal 5796

Azmara 5984

Seabourne 8150

Regent 11,711

 

Now keep in mind that this is per passenger and has not be adjusted for average cruise lengths and other factors that would impact it in addition to charges.

 

Also keep in mind how much cruise lines have grown. In 2000 total number of cruise passengers was approximately 7.2 million, last year in 2013 it was 30 million.

 

Also when you look at capacity

 

Royal Caribbean 64,048

Carnival 62,368

Princess 40,996

NCL 34,198

 

Kind of shows why Princess is very sensitive to fare hikes when you consider the number of beds they have to fill each week and the overall growth in competition.

 

It will be interesting if Virgin enters the cruise business as far as the price/service model they will follow.

 

Thanks for posting.

[PescadoAmarillo]

RDC1- I'm only surprised by Disney's rank, and not surprised to see Princess midway between HAL/X and RCL/NCL. Thanks for posting.

[RDC1]

RDC1- I'm only surprised by Disney's rank, and not surprised to see Princess midway between HAL/X and RCL/NCL. Thanks for posting.

 

I think Disney is probably low per passenger, but would not be if we could adjust this by passenger per day. As I understand it Disney tends to do a lot of shorter cruises. Also Disney probably runs higher then the others in the number of people in the cabins where the fare is half of the first two.

[cambio]

I just priced out a very nice all inclusive (including alcoholic beverages) for $140/ night per person in Cancun.

 

I would say that the Cruise industry needs to look over their shoulders and look at the value that some of the alternative vacations can offer.

[shredie]

You get way better travel benefits with a good hotel and airline rewards program then you do with a cruise rewards programs. Most people do not know the first thing about how to travel first class on almost very little spend. Cruising basically exists for people who love to consume food and destinations and IMHO are not really world travelers......:)

 

Interesting...I think a few people I know might disagree that cruisers aren't world travelers, but just people who like to eat. When the hotels start sailing the open seas with the breezes and the wildlife right out my window, then maybe I'll give up cruising. I'm curious, PrincessLuver, have you ever been on a cruise?

[kennicott]

+1

 

I am "one of those" who are quite willing to pay an increased fare to keep certain things which I consider as "the cruising experience", although I rarely use things like room service, entertainers, afternoon tea, trivia, etc., I believe its these things that set cruising apart from a standard hotel experience. The only things , to my mind , to charge extra for is the Spa, excursions and alcohol. But, here lies the problem. Most seem to want a cheaper base price, and choose not to have anything included (although will complain when they go up in price or get removed), and everyones wants are different. I, therefore, can only see a relentless crusade to nickel and dime everything they can to please that majority who wont accept anything but a cheap base price. These threads will continue for as long as cruising exists, which in itself detracts from what cruising is all about, and is making the premium lines seem more attractive as the nickel & diming has already happened within the base price, so one can get on and enjoy cruising once again.

 

I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, almost every facet of the entire industry is geared to the the add-on marketing concept anymore. These larger and larger mega-ships need customers. Get them up the gangway for a song and dance, then start charging. Very little per passenger outside deck space on the new ships, as they are set up more like shopping center/amusement parks. Barnum and Bailey would be proud.

 

Unfortunately, the commercial cruise policy drift is more and more into this business model direction, as one of the early posters on this thread said: "If that helps keep the base cruise price down then I'm all for it. Helps us poor people get on board and allows those with the means to dine and drink better". Fact is, today's average voyager appears to like it that way.

 

Sorry to say, it isn't just the cruise lines that are going this route. Look at the airlines, Spirit Airlines for instance, the fastest growing airline in the US, the least popular too, and 40% of their revenues come from add-ons. Their president expects over half of their revenues to be from add-ons soon. They get a lot of complaints, if you file one though, cost you $40.00. LOL. Consumer Reports show that the least favorable cell phone service providers are the largest and fastest growing, due all this gimmickry, bundling and easy initial access fees.

 

We often forget, this concept has been around a long time too. I remember when I bought my first new Chevrolet pickup in 1959, lucky to have been able to drive it off the dealers lot. First thing that happened was a cop stopped me. No tail light on the right side, of course, no turn signals either. G.M. said they didn't have to provide those lights on the right side, if you wanted them, then you had to pay extra. You ever take a look at the spare tire you get with a new vehicle now-a-days, hard to even call it a tire.

 

We cruise with three outfits, Princess, HAL and Regent. Princess and HAL have really gone the add-on route, with vigor. Last week, Princess tried to sneak in a 3 buck charge anytime, anything, is brought to your stateroom. Not over yet either, they just delayed implementation a tad. Its almost nuts. Regent doesn't nickel and dime as almost everything is included. But the sticker shock on Regent discourages many. Truth is though, when we pay our final bill the night before disembarkation, Regent's is a hundred bucks or so and the other two lines way into the thousands, for comparable voyages, in some instances the Regent cruise final tally often pencils out less than what it does on the larger lines. I notice the impact of all this everywhere, for instance, on the "roll calls" anymore, they are almost entirely saturated with questions and answers dealing with independent shore excursions by those attempting to circumvent the line's packages. Hardly any room for discussion of other items.

 

My wife really likes the pay up front all included policy and no nickel dimeing. I do too since it is hard to get her to do stuff since she is constantly looking at the price tag for everything and second guessing if we should do this or that. Unfortunately, Regent has only three small ships, thus not much variety in the way of cruise packages. There are a few more all included lines, but they too have limited itineraries.

[tarheelmjfan]

Interesting discussion... we're willing to pay extra for a better experience, but we need to see value in it. DH & I would be willing to pay as much as $5/person for a full room service breakfast menu or $10/person to order room service from the MDR at lunch or dinner. We'd also love to be able to order RS from the specialty restaurants & pay extra for delivery. Having this option would actually give Princess a step up on the other lines, when we're booking a cruise. (I realize suites offer this perk, but that would be the only reason we'd book a suite. It's not really worth it to us.) OTOH, $3 for the very limited room service breakfast menu they currently have is ridiculous. I don't think it would be worth it to us.

 

I'm not surprised those who stack onboard credits aren't upset with the extra charges. After all, they're not paying for it. If Princess ever decides to stop allowing stacking, those same people will probably be yelling loudest. ;) Like some others here I'm really surprised they still allow so many OBCs to combine, so it may just be a matter of time. For those who are able to stack them, I hope not. People rarely care about changes that don't really affect them. Eventually there will be a change that does, so it's a good idea to try to see things from other's perspective.

[kennicott]

When I start cruising for $50pp per day but face a barrage of on board selling opportunities, it's time to either move to a more premium cruise line or stop cruising. But there's the rub...the more premium cruise lines aren't $150 or $200 pp per day; they're $450 to $1000 pp per day. The leap is huge, in part because, as others have pointed out, the ships are generally smaller. And somewhere in between the two is where I feel there is a market for all of us who dislike nickel and diming and don't mind paying more for our cruise (those who dislike nickel and diming and still want to pay $50pp per day for their cruise are living in denial).

 

I would tend to agree with you that $50.pd-pp is unrealistic. However, maybe there is such an arrangement on some lines. If so, don't think we would be inclined to give it a go.

 

However, this thread has given me pause, I don't believe I ever looked at the price we paid for our voyages on a per day basis before. So, just for the heck of it I took a look at what we are paying for our next two cruises.

 

The first is on Princess in September, Copenhagen to New York, 17 days. About two weeks after we get off that cruise we get on Regent, for a Lisbon to Miami cruise, 21 days.

 

In both cases we are using cruise line air packages, business class. Those charges are factored in. Our shore excursions on Princess are also factored in. On Regent most shore excursions are paid for except for a slight extra charge on some all day premium ones, those costs are considered as well. In both cases we have mini-suites, not a lot of difference except that the Regent staterooms are larger. We also have purchased a pre-cruise hotel night for both which also includes all transfers. We purchase our trip insurance elsewhere, the price is about the same for both trips, so I haven't factored that in, but it is not cheap.

 

It surprised me to see that the pp--pd costs were about the same for both trips. Close to $600. pp--pd. Now, it is hard to get these numbers detailed exact, so Princess may have an edge of approximately $25.00 to $50.00 per day over Regent.

 

However, on Regent I receive free Internet, I do receive some free Internet time on Princess too, since we are "elite". With Regent, we receive free alcohol, and I do drink my fair share of cabernet in the evening, before and at dinner. We receive free specialty restaurant service on Regent as well. Same goes for the free soda, ice cream, dry cleaning, clothes washed, phone service, TV movies, etc. etc. on Regent.

 

So, I expect that when I calculate all charges after both cruise experiences are completed, that Regent's cost pp-pd will be slightly less.

 

You mentioned $1000. pp-pd, that is pretty high, unless one is talking penthouse suite category or something. Friends who use Silver Seas and Seabourne try to convince me that they offer better deals than Regent. Maybe so, but I doubt it. Don't know about Crystal, although my brother-in-law voyaged on them not all that long ago and didn't complain about the price. If it was one G note a day pp he certainly would have though.

[insidecabin]

Bargain indeed - could do with that for a Canaries quickie, but DW will only have an OV at least - Our last inside down in the bowels of a HAL ship has put her off insides for good $$:(.

 

Location of cabin is important, for a port intensive cruise having a cabin close to the way off the ship and the main dining entertainment decks can be very handy, for this one we are up high forward easy access to the spa and outside areas(hope the weather changes in the UK). High up aft insides can be good for buffet/pool access.

 

Low down forward never good even for OV to much risk of noise and in bad weather you get the sea thumping against the bow.

 

Northern Europe in June the daylight hours are so long an Inside has the benefit of being dark

 

Some ships like NCL Jewel class the insides are just too small.

 

The next super deals for us in the UK will be Nov Dec any TA's that have not sold and possibly some summer holiday cabins once there are no 3-4 berth left the 2b tend to have a limited market.

 

Above all flexibility on date cruise line and itinerary gets the deals.

 

Even thought the cruise is £30pppd by the time we add on the grats(£7pppd), transport/parking(£100+) and two nights(£110+meals) in Southampton we will be up around £45pppd for 14nights, before days spends and on board.

[caribill]

 

However, this thread has given me pause, I don't believe I ever looked at the price we paid for our voyages on a per day basis before. So, just for the heck of it I took a look at what we are paying for our next two cruises.

 

The first is on Princess in September, Copenhagen to New York, 17 days. About two weeks after we get off that cruise we get on Regent, for a Lisbon to Miami cruise, 21 days.

 

In both cases we are using cruise line air packages, business class. Those charges are factored in. Our shore excursions on Princess are also factored in. On Regent most shore excursions are paid for except for a slight extra charge on some all day premium ones, those costs are considered as well. In both cases we have mini-suites, not a lot of difference except that the Regent staterooms are larger. We also have purchased a pre-cruise hotel night for both which also includes all transfers. We purchase our trip insurance elsewhere, the price is about the same for both trips, so I haven't factored that in, but it is not cheap.

 

It surprised me to see that the pp--pd costs were about the same for both trips. Close to $600. pp--pd. Now, it is hard to get these numbers detailed exact, so Princess may have an edge of approximately $25.00 to $50.00 per day over Regent.

 

However, on Regent I receive free Internet, I do receive some free Internet time on Princess too, since we are "elite". With Regent, we receive free alcohol, and I do drink my fair share of cabernet in the evening, before and at dinner. We receive free specialty restaurant service on Regent as well. Same goes for the free soda, ice cream, dry cleaning, clothes washed, phone service, TV movies, etc. etc. on Regent.

 

So, I expect that when I calculate all charges after both cruise experiences are completed, that Regent's cost pp-pd will be slightly less.

 

 

Can you provide the comparison without including the business class air fare (or any airfare at all) and without the hotels? Those items, although cruise related, really do not allow a true comparison of what you are paying for the ships and the onboard experience.

[insidecabin]

I just priced out a very nice all inclusive (including alcoholic beverages) for $140/ night per person in Cancun.

 

I would say that the Cruise industry needs to look over their shoulders and look at the value that some of the alternative vacations can offer.

 

The AI resort or hotels can come up very good if you want a single destination vacations. Even from the UK the deals with air to Cancun can be good and closer to home the better places in Turkey get very good reviews.

 

There are 2 very good websites where people post deals that have been found.

cruises don't feature much but currently there are(packages with flights and transfers)

 

Mexico AI 7nights under £500

2 weeks in Mauritius under £1k

 

Egypt is the place for deals family of 4 can have 11n AI for under £200pp inc fights(ok hotel choice not 5*)

[sonnenschein]

Is that because the list price changed or because you got a discounted price last year? I have not noticed much of an increase this year looking at the early booking prices.

 

Some prices are higher this year because Princess and other lines have reduced capacity on the west coast and Alaska by permanently sending ships to the Asia market.

 

Our Grand Princess cruise last year was not discounted,we paid full published Price. It looks like all the cruises from the West coast especially from San Francisco are price higher than cruises from other ports.