Child drowns on Independence

[CI66774]

I grew up in the 60s and 70s and, trust me, my parents weren't in the pool with me even when I was six. They were poolside sipping martinis, etc. - and this was at our house. Were they watching us? Yes - but not every second - and that's all it takes for an accident to happen. Did I have good parents? I had great parents - but not perfect ones. Let's not condemn anyone and allow the family and this boy to heal.

[antsnanny]

And by putting in a lifeguard, the cruiseline would be opening itself up to all kinds of lawsuits. I really get upset with posts by parents who insists the loungers closest to the pool should be reserved for them so they could "be near" their kids in the pool. If your kid is in the pool, you need to be actually IN the pool with them or at the very least sitting on the edge of the pool You cannot see if a small child slips underwater from your lounge chair. The child who recently drowned, I think it was on Carnival, and his brother who almost drowned were in a crowded pool and no one noticed they had slipped underwater until it was too late. Their grandmother I believe was in a lounger "watching them."

 

 

The Tragic accident your talking about was not on a Carnival ship, it was NCL.. I was on the ship and the grandmother was not on a lounger watching the children. Believe me they screamed for a very long time trying to locate the grandmother. Well, they were screaming "Where are the parents of these children" Someone found her in the smoking lounge.

[Irene7]

It is not the lifeguard's job to answer questions. They stand buy the pool clearly marked as lifeguards, and people leave them alone.

 

Disney has been using lifeguards for nearly a year now and every time I am on a Disney cruise, people leave them alone and they do their job.

 

Cruise line pools can get ridiculously crowded and it seems like there are several drowning or near drownings every year. It is ridiculous that Carnival, Norwegian, and RCCL have not hired lifeguards for the peak pool times.

 

I agree with you 100%. But I also believe parents are just not watching their children. Disney does not have crew members watching the children, they are the real deal and are to be left alone allowing them to do their job. Whether this has made parent more lazy, I don't know.

[Irene7]

The Tragic accident your talking about was not on a Carnival ship, it was NCL.. I was on the ship and the grandmother was not on a lounger watching the children. Believe me they screamed for a very long time trying to locate the grandmother. Well, they were screaming "Where are the parents of these children" Someone found her in the smoking lounge.

 

I believe the poster is thinking about the drowning on the Carnival Victory last October.

[janetz]

I believe the poster is thinking about the drowning on the Carnival Victory last October.

 

There was one on the NCL Breakaway. There was another on a Carnival ship also.

Edited May 28, 2014 by janetz

[antsnanny]

Since you are such a great parent and skilled at watching multiple children at the same time I have a question.

 

What do you do if you are in the pool with both your boys and they go in different directions at the same time? How to you look two directions at once?

 

I ask these because even though our two are adults now neither my wife or I could ever master looking multiple directions at the same time. If there is a trick I want to learn it before we have grandchildren...it will be most helpful.

 

 

Kids are pretty hard to watch, huh? I still stand by the use of some form of vest, swimmies etc. when children are around pools, especially in cases when we know our eyes cannot be on the children at all times.

[Adayatatime]

Since, helicopters almost never land on cruise ships, I am not sure watching such an rare event would be considered to be morbid by most people. :rolleyes:

 

YMMV

 

jc

 

Last year on Indy a helicopter was trying to land as someone had has a heart attack, or something similar.

 

The captain had to put the event on the screen to stop people falling over each other with their cameras and phones. It felt extremely morbid. I remember thinking how awful it must be to entertain such a sick maladjusted audience. It really was disgusting.

[Irene7]

There was one on the NCL Breakaway. There was another on a Carnival ship also.

 

Yes, but the Breakaway had two brothers. One died and the other made it.

[drb116]

For those that are saying that there should be lifeguards, do you also believe that all hotels with pools should have lifeguards? If not, why the difference?

 

While it would be nice to have someone to watch over me where ever I go, there is always a cost/benefit.

 

Over the course of a week, lifeguards on a cruise boat would probably cost less than $5 per passenger, which is small compared to the thousands that they are paying.

 

At some hotels, the cost for a lifeguard could add $10 or more to a bill that is less than $100.

 

So the difference is scale. For the cost, there is no excuse not to have a lifeguard on cruise ships give how crowded the pools can get.

[ildibobs]

Wow hope the poor mite is ok. I do feel for the family too. To be honest my grandson is a very good swimmer but slipped and banged his head on the edge of the swimming pool in Egypt which made him dizzy. I acted fast but I will say its a split second thing and its unfair to blame parents. Its just one of those things that happen and there should be no finger pointing. The family will feel so bad as it is :mad:

[S.A.M.J.R.]

True we don't know the who story, but the article here on cc said a passenger on the sailing said that the captain announced that other children sounded the alarm, so it seems no adults where watching him. I pray the boy pulls through.

That still doesn't mean there wasn't a parent "in the pool" with the child. As a number of others have brought up, how many kids were being watched by how many parents?

 

It's entirely possible the parents were in a bar, windjammer, shop, or bathroom and left the 6yo by himself. If that's the case, sure, blame the parents. But until we know what was happening at the time, I think it's wrong to assign blame.

 

I'm still waiting for those who say you have to watch the kids ALL the time while they're in the pool what you do when your kids go in two different directions.

[Adayatatime]

While it would be nice to have someone to watch over me where ever I go, there is always a cost/benefit.

 

Over the course of a week, lifeguards on a cruise boat would probably cost less than $5 per passenger, which is small compared to the thousands that they are paying.

 

At some hotels, the cost for a lifeguard could add $10 or more to a bill that is less than $100.

 

So the difference is scale. For the cost, there is no excuse not to have a lifeguard on cruise ships give how crowded the pools can get.

 

I would imagine that most of the rules coming with life guarding would affect adults, not children.

 

"Excuse me sir, I believe you are intoxicated, could you get out of the pool"

"Excuse me madam, please would you refrain from swimming as you have just eaten 3 burgers"

"Excuse me madam, did you shower before getting in the pool?"

"Excuse me sir, are they your children reserving your sun beds while you are in the pool"

 

I think the kids are the least of their problems.

[LetsGetWet!]

That still doesn't mean there wasn't a parent "in the pool" with the child. As a number of others have brought up, how many kids were being watched by how many parents?

 

It's entirely possible the parents were in a bar, windjammer, shop, or bathroom and left the 6yo by himself. If that's the case, sure, blame the parents. But until we know what was happening at the time, I think it's wrong to assign blame.

 

I'm still waiting for those who say you have to watch the kids ALL the time while they're in the pool what you do when your kids go in two different directions.

If they're as young as the six year old in this case, its simple. You grab them and pull them back together. You don't LET them get too far apart to be able to watch both.

 

From the American Red Cross in a CC article about this accident:

 

According to the American Red Cross, families need to set stringent rules for water safety, no matter where they are. Their tips include:

*Always swim with a buddy, do not allow anyone to swim alone.

*Never leave a young child unattended near water and do not trust a child's life to another child; teach children to always ask permission to go near water.

*Have young children or inexperienced swimmers wear life jackets around water, but do not rely on life jackets alone.

*Always stay within arm's reach of young children and avoid distractions when supervising children around water.

*If a child is missing, check the water first. Seconds count in preventing death or disability.

[callow]

Even when parents watch they often freeze when something happens.

 

A few years ago I was sitting by a hotel pool and my kids were in pool and a little girl was with them. My husband looked up and said he thought the girl was in trouble. I went over and the little girl had lost her footing. The pool had a sloping floor and she was trying to reach my older children.

 

The little girl had her father standing by the pool side watching. I could see she was going under. I looked up at him but there was no recognition that she was in trouble so I ended up jumping in fully clothed to get her.

 

Her mother was grateful afterwards. It just shows that even a child being watched could potentially suffer serious harm.

[Ocean Boy]

Last year on Indy a helicopter was trying to land as someone had has a heart attack, or something similar.

 

The captain had to put the event on the screen to stop people falling over each other with their cameras and phones. It felt extremely morbid. I remember thinking how awful it must be to entertain such a sick maladjusted audience. It really was disgusting.

 

I don't suppose you have ever had to take a look at an accident that you are passing on a highway? A good part of highway backups are not just from the accident but people slowing down to get a good look. Are all those people in the cars sick maladjusted people?

 

People gawking at a helicopter hovering around a cruise ship are doing just that, looking at the rare event of a helicopter being there. They aren't trying to get their eyes on the unfortunate victim.

[Irene7]

Wow hope the poor mite is ok. I do feel for the family too. To be honest my grandson is a very good swimmer but slipped and banged his head on the edge of the swimming pool in Egypt which made him dizzy. I acted fast but I will say its a split second thing and its unfair to blame parents. Its just one of those things that happen and there should be no finger pointing. The family will feel so bad as it is :mad:

 

You reacted fast, because you were there and and on parental duty. Imagine what would have happened if you were off and not paying any attention at all. I agree things happen fast, but the question is, was he supervised or was he left unsupervised.

[Adayatatime]

I don't suppose you have ever had to take a look at an accident that you are passing on a highway? A good part of highway backups are not just from the accident but people slowing down to get a good look. Are all those people in the cars sick maladjusted people?

 

People gawking at a helicopter hovering around a cruise ship are doing just that, looking at the rare event of a helicopter being there. They aren't trying to get their eyes on the unfortunate victim.

 

They are called rubberneckers. And no, I don't look at accidents. I'm either going to see nothing, or see something awful. And I witnessed it on a cruise ship last summer. And yes it was disgusting.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Adayatatime

[chengkp75]

While it would be nice to have someone to watch over me where ever I go, there is always a cost/benefit.

 

Over the course of a week, lifeguards on a cruise boat would probably cost less than $5 per passenger, which is small compared to the thousands that they are paying.

 

At some hotels, the cost for a lifeguard could add $10 or more to a bill that is less than $100.

 

So the difference is scale. For the cost, there is no excuse not to have a lifeguard on cruise ships give how crowded the pools can get.

 

Yes, but your bill of $100 is for one night. That same room is booked every night of the week, so to compare apples to apples, the weekly rate for a room is $700 (and a bargain at that price). The only reason that cruise ship lifeguards would cost less per passenger dollar/day than a hotel would be that the cruise line employees are foreigners not paid to US wages. The hotel also does not have to provide room and board for the lifeguard like the ship does. Unlike guest cabins, which are not always full, there are a fixed number of crew cabins, sized with the ship's operational requirements in mind when the ship is built. Finding new cabins for newly created positions generally means that someone else's position, who is currently providing service onboard is eliminated.

[Irene7]

Even when parents watch they often freeze when something happens.

 

A few years ago I was sitting by a hotel pool and my kids were in pool and a little girl was with them. My husband looked up and said he thought the girl was in trouble. I went over and the little girl had lost her footing. The pool had a sloping floor and she was trying to reach my older children.

 

The little girl had her father standing by the pool side watching. I could see she was going under. I looked up at him but there was no recognition that she was in trouble so I ended up jumping in fully clothed to get her.

 

Her mother was grateful afterwards. It just shows that even a child being watched could potentially suffer serious harm.

 

Sometimes signs of drowning are hard to pick up on, and that is why everyone should read that article about the warning signs before allowing their children in a pool, any pool. Life guards know these signs - my daughter is one of them, and reacts immediately. She saved a 5 year old boy two summers ago in a public pool when his father was right there as well and he had no idea his son was in trouble.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Irene7

[antsnanny]

I grew up in the 60s and 70s and, trust me, my parents weren't in the pool with me even when I was six. They were poolside sipping martinis, etc. - and this was at our house. Were they watching us? Yes - but not every second - and that's all it takes for an accident to happen. Did I have good parents? I had great parents - but not perfect ones. Let's not condemn anyone and allow the family and this boy to heal.

 

Personally, I never sipped on Martini's while children were in my care let alone at the pool. Thankfully, your family got lucky and nothing happened. I personally think the child who has their parents 100% undivided attention is more likely not to have an accident of any kind whether its water related or not.. My prayers are with this boy and him family...

[antsnanny]

I believe the poster is thinking about the drowning on the Carnival Victory last October.

 

 

There was also one on NCL Breakaway Feb.2014.

Edited May 28, 2014 by antsnanny

[antsnanny]

Last year on Indy a helicopter was trying to land as someone had has a heart attack, or something similar.

 

The captain had to put the event on the screen to stop people falling over each other with their cameras and phones. It felt extremely morbid. I remember thinking how awful it must be to entertain such a sick maladjusted audience. It really was disgusting.

 

I stood and watched as our Marines airlifted a 6 year old off the ship and I am not either maladjusted of morbid. Yes, there was a crowd there but we were all crying and praying for the little boy.. Nothing disgusting about that !

[Irene7]

There was also one on NCL Breakaway Feb.2014.

 

That was the one with the two brothers. The carnival victory was Oct 2013.

[Irene7]

 

I'm still waiting for those who say you have to watch the kids ALL the time while they're in the pool what you do when your kids go in two different directions.

 

Parenting is not easy, not by a long shot! What my husband and I always did when ours were young. He took one and I took watch of the other. If it was just me or just him, if we felt we could not watch them diligently, then out of the pool everyone went unless they played in the same area. I know that sounds like kill joy parents, but I was not about to take any chances.

[antsnanny]

That was the one with the two brothers. The carnival victory was Oct 2013.

 

Yes.