Order of succession - Who's number 2

[HamOp]

If God forbid the captain of a ship becomes incapacitated, who assumes command? In the military every command has a number 2 guy, known as the executive officer. Who's number 2 on a HAL ship? for that matter who's numbers 3 and 4?

[GeriatricNurse]

If God forbid the captain of a ship becomes incapacitated, who assumes command? In the military every command has a number 2 guy, known as the executive officer. Who's number 2 on a HAL ship? for that matter who's numbers 3 and 4?

 

 

 

I believe that the number 2 guy is called the First Officer.

Edited June 5, 2014 by GeriatricNurse

[trabeler]

Normally, the title of the person we call the "captain" is actually "master". Next in the line of command is the "staff captain". After that, I'm not so sure...

[jp2001]

On most ships like the one I work on, the First Officer (also called Chief Officer or Chief Mate) is 2nd in command after the Master (also called Captain)

 

BUT on most cruise ships they also have a Staff Captain and I think he/she would be second in command (not 100% sure about this one).

 

Also, it is important to understand that the First Officer will replace the Captain should he/she become incapacitated. However, he/she has no autority over other departments (engines/passenger services) unless he becomes in command for whatever reason. Otherwise he only has autority in his own department.

 

I am Purser on my ship (it is a small ship with only 32-40 crew members depending on season). I am head of Passengers Services, Chief Cook is Head of the Kitchen, Chief Engineer is Head of Engine Department. Deck Department Head is the Captain but generally delegating lots of deck responsibilities to the First Officer. For example, the First Officer is in charge of all cargo and ballast operations and of course this is of main importance on a ship.

Edited June 5, 2014 by jp2001

[doublebzz]

Normally, the title of the person we call the "captain" is actually "master". Next in the line of command is the "staff captain". After that, I'm not so sure...

 

I agree with you. The staff captain is comparable to an executive officer in the U.S. Navy and usually has a master's license in his own right. Third in command is the first officer.

[Quartzsite Cruiser]

On a recent cruise, the captain was ill for about four days. The staff captain assumed command during that time. In his announcements he always said that he was speaking for the captain. This was the second cruise that we've had the staff captain take over when the captain was ill.

 

On the same cruise, we had dinner with the first officer who is third in command. He had his masters license and was capable of taking over if both the captain and staff captain were unable to be in command.

[doublebzz]

On a recent cruise, the captain was ill for about four days. The staff captain assumed command during that time. In his announcements he always said that he was speaking for the captain. This was the second cruise that we've had the staff captain take over when the captain was ill.

 

On the same cruise, we had dinner with the first officer who is third in command. He had his masters license and was capable of taking over if both the captain and staff captain were unable to be in command.

 

Plenty of adequate back up on cruise ships. Now, if the bar manager took ill, we all would be in trouble.

[HamOp]

Thanks for the great answers, all!

 

Wonder how far down the line it would have to go for Copper 10-8 to take command?!:D:D

[sail7seas]

HAL used to call the 'second in command' the Chief Officer. His title is now Staff Captain. He has a Master's license and is fully capable of taking over for the Captain in an emergency.

 

I also think Chief Engineers hold Master's License. They, too, are fully trained and able for emergencies. They also wear four stripes.

 

Edited June 5, 2014 by sail7seas

[jp2001]

HAL used to call the 'second in command' the Chief Officer. His title is now Staff Captain. He has a Master's license and is fully capable of taking over for the Captain in an emergency.

 

I also think Chief Engineers hold Master's License. They, too, are fully trained and able for emergencies. They also wear four stripes.

 

 

I would be VERY surprised if HAL Chief Engineers require a Master's License. They usually hold a Chief Engineer License that asks as long a training (4 year Maritime College/Institute to become certified engineer, sailing time on the right category/tonnage of ship and tests).

[Susie51]

I don't know what the title is, but there is another officer who is in charge of the bridge during a 24 hour cycle.

 

I read in a cruise magazine the captain and two other officers take turns on the bridge during a 24 hour cycle. The shift is 4 hours long. This is just my opinion, but I think there would be a 4th officer as a back up.

[doublebzz]

I would be VERY surprised if HAL Chief Engineers require a Master's License. They usually hold a Chief Engineer License that asks as long a training (4 year Maritime College/Institute to become certified engineer, sailing time on the right category/tonnage of ship and tests).

 

This is certainly true of the U.S. Merchant Marine.

 

I don't know what the title is, but there is another officer who is in charge of the bridge during a 24 hour cycle.

 

I read in a cruise magazine the captain and two other officers take turns on the bridge during a 24 hour cycle. The shift is 4 hours long. This is just my opinion, but I think there would be a 4th officer as a back up.

 

I doubt the Captain stands watch on the bridge. He has deck officers, 2nd and 3rd mates for that function.

[Typhoon1]

Staff Captain.

 

Your room steward :eek:, after that.

[Copper10-8]

If God forbid the captain of a ship becomes incapacitated, who assumes command? In the military every command has a number 2 guy, known as the executive officer. Who's number 2 on a HAL ship? for that matter who's numbers 3 and 4?

 

On HAL:

 

Deck/Nautical Department:

 

Captain/Master - 4.5 gold bars one of which is looped (Nelson loop)

Staff Captain - 4 gold bars one of which is looped (comparable to XO in the Navy)

1st Officer/Senior Navigation Officer - 3 gold bars one of which is looped

2nd Officer - 2 gold bars one of which is looped

3rd Officer - 1 gold bar one of which is looped

 

The 4th Officer rank has recently been abolished

 

Cadet Officer/in training - ¼ gold bar (spaghetti string) one of which is looped

 

Technical/Engineering Dept:

 

Chief Engineer - 4 straight gold bars

Staff Chief Engineer - 3.5 straight gold bars

1st Engineer - 3 straight gold bars

2nd Engineer - 2 straight gold bars

3rd Engineer - 1 straight gold bar

 

Deck officer have collateral duties such as Admin, Training/SMS & Safety

[Copper10-8]

I don't know what the title is, but there is another officer who is in charge of the bridge during a 24 hour cycle.

 

I read in a cruise magazine the captain and two other officers take turns on the bridge during a 24 hour cycle. The shift is 4 hours long. This is just my opinion, but I think there would be a 4th officer as a back up.

 

You might be thinking of 'Officer of the Watch' or OOW. The day on the Bridge is divided into "watches". There are 2 Deck officers (one senior + one junior) + 2 Quartermasters on each watch which are usually four hours in length. There are certain areas in the world which do require the Captain, relieved by the Staff Captain, to stand a watch, the Amazon River in Brazil and St. Lawrence River in Canada, are two such areas

[whogo]

In the event that the Captain is incapacitated there will yet another annoying announcement from the cruise director. "Anybody know how to steer this thing?"

[rafinmd]

John, a couple more questions. When I was on the Prinsendam, Halle Thon Gunderson came out of retirement to cover an illness. Is there any kind of a rule of thumb about how long a Staff Captain will stand in for a Master before other measures are taken?

 

Also, how many people on a ship are typically fully certified to take over if needed? Does it go to or below the First officer?

 

Roy

[jp2001]

There are certain areas in the world which do require the Captain, relieved by the Staff Captain, to stand a watch, the Amazon River in Brazil and St. Lawrence River in Canada, are two such areas

 

And you also need a pilot in such areas. Pilots are Master specifically trained for a certain cruising region where risks are high such as the St.Lawrence River. Many places also have port pilots (or docking pilots... not sure of the term in English) meaning a pilot has to be brought onboard to be authorized to dock the ship in port.

 

In the St.Lawrence River, you have pilots for segments of the St.Lawrence River so you change pilot a few times during a full transit (3 times if I remember correctly).

[take us away]

Heard that Gunderson came out of retirement to replace the ailing master captain as the Prinsedam was on the So. America grand cruise which has tricky sailing and Gunderson has done it so very many times, they knew there would be no issues.

[doublebzz]

 

Also, how many people on a ship are typically fully certified to take over if needed? Does it go to or below the First officer?

 

Roy

 

No set rule. Essentially, anyone with a Master's license, any ocean, any tonnage would be certified to captain the ship. As one poster has indicated, there may be a number of mates who have this license.

[sail7seas]

I would be VERY surprised if HAL Chief Engineers require a Master's License. They usually hold a Chief Engineer License that asks as long a training (4 year Maritime College/Institute to become certified engineer, sailing time on the right category/tonnage of ship and tests).

 

 

Do some checking. :D

 

You might find yourself VERY surprised. :)

Think of the Maersk Alabama. It was the first I ever learned the Enginner can control the ship from the engine room. I subsequently asked several HAL Chief Engineers about it and three advised me they held Master's licenses. I have no reason to think they were mistaken.

 

 

[sail7seas]

And you also need a pilot in such areas. Pilots are Master specifically trained for a certain cruising region where risks are high such as the St.Lawrence River. Many places also have port pilots (or docking pilots... not sure of the term in English) meaning a pilot has to be brought onboard to be authorized to dock the ship in port.

 

In the St.Lawrence River, you have pilots for segments of the St.Lawrence River so you change pilot a few times during a full transit (3 times if I remember correctly).

 

 

The whole time the Maasdam is on the St. Lawrence, there are two pilots aboard. One relieves the other for rest/food etc

 

[jp2001]

Do some checking. :D

 

You might find yourself VERY surprised. :)

Think of the Maersk Alabama. It was the first I ever learned the Enginner can control the ship from the engine room. I subsequently asked several HAL Chief Engineers about it and three advised me they held Master's licenses. I have no reason to think they were mistaken.

 

 

 

Yes, I know the Engine room as ship controls and you can even ''control'' ship movements directly from the bowels of the ship (don't remember the name of that place in English) but one would put a pair of headphone and the captain would instruct this person which way to steer. If you are getting there, things are NOT GOING WELL :D

 

HAL might be requesting a Master's License but it is not common (for Canada Merchent Marine anyway) but I AM very surprised as the training to become Captain or Chief Engineers are very different and I can't see them doing both.

 

But it might be different in other countries; I was just talking about how it works where I work (Canada).

 

Or maybe those people have Master's License for small ships (MUCH easier to get) but then decided to go for the Chief Engineer Training... I don't know and if someone knows I'll be very interested to read about that.

[Copper10-8]

John, a couple more questions. When I was on the Prinsendam, Halle Thon Gunderson came out of retirement to cover an illness. Is there any kind of a rule of thumb about how long a Staff Captain will stand in for a Master before other measures are taken?

 

Also, how many people on a ship are typically fully certified to take over if needed? Does it go to or below the First officer?

 

Roy

 

Nope, no set rule; staff captains fill in on a regular basis, i.e. during the annual Senior Mngt. conference. They function as acting captains during those times

 

#2 depends on how many have taken and passed the exam for their Master's license; at a minimum, the staff captain; usually the 1st officer and one or both (could be 3 onboard) of the 2nd officers

[Copper10-8]

...............Many places also have port pilots (or docking pilots... not sure of the term in English) meaning a pilot has to be brought onboard to be authorized to dock the ship in port.

 

.....................QUOTE]

 

Local or Harbor pilots; about 97-98% of the time

Edited June 5, 2014 by Copper10-8