HAL the last line allowing balcony smoking

[Fouremco]

We have an upcoming Med cruise booked on HAL in August in a Neptune Suite, which hopefully will remain "safe" for smokers. We did have a short little Caribbean cruise booked on Carnival for Nov. 1. When their smoking policy changed and we were outside of final payment, we switched to a Dec. 1 NCL cruise. Looks like we'll be cancelling that soon. We were going to book a 14 day New Zealand cruise and a 10 day South Pacific cruise next fall with HAL. If they change before then, we will probably be done cruising. "Some outside" area is not good enough. I don't want to get up in the morning and get dressed and go up a deck or 2 in order to have a cigarette with my coffee. Nor do I wish to be seen in my p.j.'s late in the evening enjoying a cig with my nightcap.

 

Everyone talks about revenue as the bottom line. Reportedly, some 18-20% of American cruisers smoke, and slightly more from other nationalities.

 

Here's my question: How many people do not cruise or book balconies because smoking is permitted on balconies vs. those of us smokers who will not cruise at all if it is banned? With all the non-smoking options available through many other main stream cruise lines, I think it might be a wise financial move for HAL to stay the only cruise line allowing smoking. Many of us smokers, despite the general demographics, are well-educated and financially comfortable and will spend our money on suites and wine and wine and . . .

I used to smoke. Heavily. When I did, I'd light up my first before rolling out of bed. But when restrictions on smoking became more and more prevalent, I adjusted my expectations. I couldn't have a post-dinner smoke over coffee in a restaurant, so I either waited until I was finished or simply skipped the coffee.

 

To answer your question, I think that the majority of HAL smokers, when faced with a balcony smoking ban, will choose simply to throw on some clothes and go for that first morning smoke in one of the designated areas instead of giving up the pleasures of cruising. Others may make the decision to seek out other holiday options, and I suspect there might even be a few who will use this as the impetus to give up smoking altogether.

 

As for HAL remaining the sole cruise line allowing smoking: it will never happen. Far too many other options for the non-smokers and far too few dedicated smokers to fill HAL's fleet.

[sail7seas]

SCM1848 -I do understand how you feel and it must be like being under attack and constantly retreating further. But with your question about the revenue, I can honestly say that in my town the pub owners were in uproar when smoking in pubs was first banned, (or suggested) and said they would all be closing down. Now, you are hard pressed to find a seat and they are making money hand over fist. Things change, the smokers still go there. They just have to go without their cigarette for awhile, or go to the designated outside area to smoke. I'm not equating it, I'm just saying the revenue picture actually improved.

 

 

 

It was similar in Massachusetts when bar and restaurants owners etc predicted doom for the businesses when the state when no smoking in all work places. They soon learned business stayed at least the same and in many cases improved. We are many years into very little public smoking in MA and I am almost never exposed to second hand smoke except on the ships........ mostly on my verandah. That probably is why it bothers me so much when I have a neighbor on the ship who smokes.

 

[cruz chic]

I used to smoke. Heavily. When I did, I'd light up my first before rolling out of bed. But when restrictions on smoking became more and more prevalent, I adjusted my expectations. I couldn't have a post-dinner smoke over coffee in a restaurant, so I either waited until I was finished or simply skipped the coffee.

 

To answer your question, I think that the majority of HAL smokers, when faced with a balcony smoking ban, will choose simply to throw on some clothes and go for that first morning smoke in one of the designated areas instead of giving up the pleasures of cruising. Others may make the decision to seek out other holiday options, and I suspect there might even be a few who will use this as the impetus to give up smoking altogether.

 

As for HAL remaining the sole cruise line allowing smoking: it will never happen. Far too many other options for the non-smokers and far too few dedicated smokers to fill HAL's fleet.

I agree with this totally. People will say they will leave, very few will.

[E-500]

I agree with this totally. People will say they will leave, very few will.

 

I will be one of the "few" that will leave. HAL had a point of difference by allowing veranda smoking. We cruise with another couple, both couples 3 star mariners and the gentlemen enjoy cigars on the veranda.

 

If HAL eliminates this perk we will seek other options. HAL has diminished it's product in recent years with all the cutbacks, fee add-ons and service reductions that they no longer are a good value proposition. Too many other lines out there that offer a better quality experience at the same price point. Without a veranda smoking option HAL will no longer be in the decision mix for us and many others. We will either stop cruising or go with Princess, X, Oceania etc.

 

HAL needs to be very careful or they will end up with smoke-free verandas and passenger free ships.

[DeeniEncinitas]

I will be one of the "few" that will leave. HAL had a point of difference by allowing veranda smoking. We cruise with another couple, both couples 3 star mariners and the gentlemen enjoy cigars on the veranda.

 

If HAL eliminates this perk we will seek other options. HAL has diminished it's product in recent years with all the cutbacks, fee add-ons and service reductions that they no longer are a good value proposition. Too many other lines out there that offer a better quality experience at the same price point. Without a veranda smoking option HAL will no longer be in the decision mix for us and many others. We will either stop cruising or go with Princess, X, Oceania etc.

 

HAL needs to be very careful or they will end up with smoke-free verandas and passenger free ships.

In my opinion I do not think so! We are 3 stars going on 4 on our next cruise, and I do not see it! Again that is only my opinion

[Typhoon1]

It should have been rolled out ten years ago. Why wait sex more months?

[cruz chic]

It should have been rolled out ten years ago. Why wait sex more months?

 

Agree. I assume we are talking about smoking and not sex:D;).

[DeeniEncinitas]

It should have been rolled out ten years ago. Why wait sex more months?

 

Love it! You said sex more months LOL! Really 6 mos!

[LindaM]

In my opinion I do not think so! We are 3 stars going on 4 on our next cruise, and I do not see it! Again that is only my opinion

 

Well, I have the same opinion, which is logical...IMHO!! If 80% of HAL passengers are NON smokers, that leaves only 20% who may sail HAL for the smoking policy. I would guess at least 10% of those LIKE HAL because of the wraparound decks and smaller ship size along with friendly service. For those who like midsize ships; they are going to stay with HAL.

 

Most importantly, HAL will get back the sizable group who left because they didn't want to be next door to smokers on their verandah. I predict the numbers will stay the same. I just wish it didn't take so long for the cruiselines to figure out banning smoking on verandahs was not going to hurt their bottom line.

[PathfinderEss]

To me, this is not the "usual" smoking thread, debating whose rights are more important. This is newsworthy. HAL is about the make a huge change and I think it is very important for us to know. If not important, it is fun to have something to look forward to.

 

These HAL boards would be pretty boring without some of this drama. As long as people don't get ugly, who is it hurting?

 

...........but the sad thing is, that is where these treads seem to go, and then our Host Walt hast to close them down. In actuality it might be nice to have a little boredom for a few weeks.

[igraf]

I agree. This is definitely worth another thread.

 

igraf

 

 

 

 

To me, this is not the "usual" smoking thread, debating whose rights are more important. This is newsworthy. HAL is about the make a huge change and I think it is very important for us to know. ...

[Lizzie68]

...........but the sad thing is, that is where these treads seem to go, and then our Host Walt hast to close them down. In actuality it might be nice to have a little boredom for a few weeks.

 

But Melodie, we are on page 3 of this thread, and it has been civil, polite and a debate going back and forth. You cannot stifle conversation just in case it gets hostile.

[cruz chic]

...........but the sad thing is, that is where these treads seem to go, and then our Host Walt hast to close them down. In actuality it might be nice to have a little boredom for a few weeks.

 

If no one posts, they won't last long. Agree with the posters that say this is an informative thread. I don't read the Ncl board.

[Fblack]

When I heard Carnival was banning smoking on Balconies, I at first assumed HAL would follow soon. I have not been on a HAL cruise in several years. Back then, we had a 23 day TA b2b ruined when we could almost never sit on our balcony without some smoke blowing our way. Whether it was a cup of coffee in the morning, a drink in the evening, it did not matter. Smoke everywhere and every time on our Westerdam balcony. We may eventually be back, but have come to love a few of the other non-smoker friendly cruise lines. Especially a non smoking Casino. What a treat that was.

[cruisemom42]

I think that the majority of HAL smokers, when faced with a balcony smoking ban, will choose simply to throw on some clothes and go for that first morning smoke in one of the designated areas instead of giving up the pleasures of cruising. Others may make the decision to seek out other holiday options, and I suspect there might even be a few who will use this as the impetus to give up smoking altogether.

 

 

That may be true in some cases. But imagine my 80-some year old parents on a cruise -- not a Caribbean cruise but a Trans-Atlantic cruise in November. Where the weather is apt to be a bit unpleasant.

 

I don't think for a minute they would want to get up, get dressed and go up or down several flights of stairs to stand outside in an area likely to be exposed and chilly at the least. Then back down or up again. Five times daily.

 

HAL should provide some better option.

 

It should have been rolled out ten years ago. Why wait sex more months?

 

Suppose HAL rolled out a new policy that was a deal breaker for YOU, and you had already booked and paid for a cruise (and air tickets) and were within the final payment window?

 

That scenario isn't fair, whatever the change and however eagerly some might anticipate it.

 

I propose the fair thing, if it comes to it (and my hope is that it doesn't), is that HAL announces their policy a year in advance. This mitigates the issue of both cruise payment (full refund) and air tickets (which cannot be purchased more than 11 months in advance).

[nedward]

I will be one of the "few" that will leave. HAL had a point of difference by allowing veranda smoking. We cruise with another couple, both couples 3 star mariners and the gentlemen enjoy cigars on the veranda.

 

If HAL eliminates this perk we will seek other options. HAL has diminished it's product in recent years with all the cutbacks, fee add-ons and service reductions that they no longer are a good value proposition. Too many other lines out there that offer a better quality experience at the same price point. Without a veranda smoking option HAL will no longer be in the decision mix for us and many others. We will either stop cruising or go with Princess, X, Oceania etc.

 

HAL needs to be very careful or they will end up with smoke-free verandas and passenger free ships.

 

Looks like you will be in trouble. No smoking on the veranda's on X, Princess or Oceania.

[cruisemom42]

Looks like you will be in trouble. No smoking on the veranda's on X, Princess or Oceania.

 

I understood the OP to be saying that ABSENT the benefit of verandah smoking, HAL loses a competitive edge for them, and on the remaining merits would not be a first choice.

[Lizzie68]

That may be true in some cases. But imagine my 80-some year old parents on a cruise -- not a Caribbean cruise but a Trans-Atlantic cruise in November. Where the weather is apt to be a bit unpleasant.

 

I don't think for a minute they would want to get up, get dressed and go up or down several flights of stairs to stand outside in an area likely to be exposed and chilly at the least. Then back down or up again. Five times daily.

 

HAL should provide some better option.

 

 

 

Suppose HAL rolled out a new policy that was a deal breaker for YOU, and you had already booked and paid for a cruise (and air tickets) and were within the final payment window?

 

That scenario isn't fair, whatever the change and however eagerly some might anticipate it.

 

I propose the fair thing, if it comes to it (and my hope is that it doesn't), is that HAL announces their policy a year in advance. This mitigates the issue of both cruise payment (full refund) and air tickets (which cannot be purchased more than 11 months in advance).

 

While I don't think that other passengers should suffer discomfort simply because your parents are elderly, I do entirely agree that HAL should - and possibly will - roll out another option which will include a comfortable indoor area. Some say they do indeed read Cruise Critic, and this has been suggested many, many times - so hopefully it will happen. As an aside, though, surely your elderly parents can use the elevator and not have to climb up and down stairs?

[cruz chic]

That may be true in some cases. But imagine my 80-some year old parents on a cruise -- not a Caribbean cruise but a Trans-Atlantic cruise in November. Where the weather is apt to be a bit unpleasant.

 

I don't think for a minute they would want to get up, get dressed and go up or down several flights of stairs to stand outside in an area likely to be exposed and chilly at the least. Then back down or up again. Five times daily.

 

HAL should provide some better option.

 

 

 

Suppose HAL rolled out a new policy that was a deal breaker for YOU, and you had already booked and paid for a cruise (and air tickets) and were within the final payment window?

 

That scenario isn't fair, whatever the change and however eagerly some might anticipate it.

 

I propose the fair thing, if it comes to it (and my hope is that it doesn't), is that HAL announces their policy a year in advance. This mitigates the issue of both cruise payment (full refund) and air tickets (which cannot be purchased more than 11 months in advance).

 

Then someone is going to complain they booked two years in advance. If they announce it before final is due I think that is fair. If they announce something that is my deal breaker then I would put on my big girl pants and suck it up and never book another cruise with them going forward. Since when is life fair? I've left Hal for years in the past when I didn't like something that they did. I don't expect Hal to fix everything just for me.

Edited July 15, 2014 by cruz chic

[cruisemom42]

While I don't think that other passengers should suffer discomfort simply because your parents are elderly, I do entirely agree that HAL should - and possibly will - roll out another option which will include a comfortable indoor area. Some say they do indeed read Cruise Critic, and this has been suggested many, many times - so hopefully it will happen. As an aside, though, surely your elderly parents can use the elevator and not have to climb up and down stairs?

 

They have been cruising since the 1950s and refuse to believe they are getting old enough (or infirm enough) to warrant taking the elevator. ;)

 

They nearly always cruise on the smaller ships where it is relatively easy to get around.

[cruisemom42]

If they announce something that is my deal breaker then I would put on my big girl pants and suck it up and never book another cruise with them going forward. Since when is life fair? I've left Hal for years in the past when I didn't like something that they did.

 

I'm sure my parents are not the only elderly HAL loyalists who are smokers. I'm merely using them as an example. Sometimes it helps people to realize changes like this aren't abstract and do affect others.

[cruz chic]

I'm sure my parents are not the only elderly HAL loyalists who are smokers. I'm merely using them as an example. Sometimes it helps people to realize changes like this aren't abstract and do affect others.

 

Yes, of course they do. The issue is that more people don't smoke than do. I'm sure smokers didn't like it when they couldn't smoke in the office anymore. I'm pretty sure that smokers don't like going outside in minus 30 in Calgary. I haven't heard one person blame non smokers for that. Times change. If not we'd still be sitting in a cloud of smoke at work.

[Cretia]

I just wanted to throw out one of the main speculations from the NCL board that doesn't appear to have made it to this thread. The NCL thread unfortunately got ugly, so I wouldn't recommend reading it.

 

The rumor is that new regulations will require cruise ships to ban balcony smoking or install very costly fire suppression systems and upgrades. Carnival, NCL, and HAL may simply be annoucing these because, from a financial standpoint, they really don't have much of a choice.

[catl331]

It sure would be nice to know if there is an indoor smoker's room planned for the Pinnacle class ship! ;)

[cruz chic]

I just wanted to throw out one of the main speculations from the NCL board that doesn't appear to have made it to this thread. The NCL thread unfortunately got ugly, so I wouldn't recommend reading it.

 

The rumor is that new regulations will require cruise ships to ban balcony smoking or install very costly fire suppression systems and upgrades. Carnival, NCL, and HAL may simply be annoucing these because, from a financial standpoint, they really don't have much of a choice.

 

Interesting. I hadn't heard that but it would explain the amount of policy changes as of late.