Oasis of the Seas Bars Woman After Asking If She's Pregnamt

[dancinman66]

Just because you are only in the first few weeks of pregnancy does not negate the risk to the mother and child and therefore risk that rccl take

 

I agree that if you know and say yes then without a note rccl are saying they are deeming her fit if they take her and no note provided

 

As an Ambilance officer I have had to deal a lot with early pregnancy issues

 

If she says no she is not pregnant or does not know she is then rccl are not liable for safe travel of a pregnant lady without a doctors note

 

I'm in rccl side

 

Just knowing what could happen

It's a litigation nightmare

 

 

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[xxHadleyxx]

 

Here's another question for you... if your DH was denied boarding, would you board with your kids leaving him at the dock as you sailed?

 

For me, it's easy to say *I* would stay at the dock and let the rest of the family sail, but I can't say I would leave DW at the dock. Does that make sense?

 

Yes, assuming he was not in need of help or care from me--I probably would and he would probably encourage us to do so.

[Illyria]

Rather amazed they ask her. What if she had just been fat?

Is this now a standard question to all women of childbearing age? :confused:

LuLu

 

I'm in my mid-30s now, been cruising for the past several years (so definitely childbearing age), and no one ever asked me at a cruise check-in whether I could be pregnant :D

[A&L_Ont]

I think the part that I don't understand about the whole thing is that she scrambled to get the note as they asked BEFORE the ship left, but they refused it. That part just doesn't make sense to me.

 

“The girl at the counter said ‘any chance you’re pregnant?’ And I was taken off guard and said ‘yes, I found out a few days before we left’ and she said ‘do you have a note?’ She told us you cannot get on without a note,” said Ligori.

 

Ligori had shown positive on a home pregnancy test but had not yet been to her family doctor. She and her husband did not want to say anything to family members, or their two young sons, because the pregnancy was at the very early stages.

 

“We were treated like parasites,” Ligori said of Royal Caribbean, which refused to accept a hastily-written medical letter from a doctor arranged in Ontario. The note read that there was no reason Ligori could not travel.

 

 

 

 

I don't think they had the hastily written note until they found out that they needed one in Florida. I marked in bold why I think this. If she brought the note from Canada she would have know that she needed it in the first place, and it would not have been hastily written. The news source also did not go on and on about it saying that RC did not accept the note written by her doctor prior to leaving Ontario.

 

I tend to think they did not accept the note is because there was no way a doctor in Ontario could review his patient who is in Florida. Once they found out they needed a note they contacted their family Dr and he faxed one off. Other option could have been perhaps they called a friend who is a Dr and got one.

 

Once the pregnant lady is under scrutiny of the boarding agents and they know she has no note they would immediately wonder how did she get one from a doctor who is thousands of miles away in an hour or two. It would have looked worse if it was dated for Embarkation day, not to mention how could the Doctor give an early pregnancy exam from so far away.

 

Only guesses but the theory makes sense.

[Canadian Tyler]

Another news report here with some additional information including Royal Caribbean apology: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/hamilton-woman-barred-from-boarding-cruise-because-she-was-pregnant-1.2717375

 

Interesting too that they offered to honor their booking on the cruise the next day. Of course it's easy to say not being in the situation, but I'd take that option any day over flying to the next port.

 

 

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[DragonOfTheSeas]

Another news report here with some additional information including Royal Caribbean apology: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/hamilton-woman-barred-from-boarding-cruise-because-she-was-pregnant-1.2717375

 

Interesting too that they offered to honor their booking on the cruise the next day. Of course it's easy to say not being in the situation, but I'd take that option any day over flying to the next port.

 

 

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Thank you for the link. I agree that it is interesting that RCL offered them to sail on the Allure the next day. That would have been my choice, too.

 

There are no winners in this story. RCL looks bad, couple should have read the contract, and the pier workers seem strange for asking her if she is pregnant. :confused:

[akcruz]

Another news report here with some additional information including Royal Caribbean apology: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/hamilton-woman-barred-from-boarding-cruise-because-she-was-pregnant-1.2717375

 

Interesting too that they offered to honor their booking on the cruise the next day. Of course it's easy to say not being in the situation, but I'd take that option any day over flying to the next port.

 

 

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Thanks, that article does fill in some of the missing parts of the story, especially why they would not accept the first doctors note.

 

This whole thing is a no win situation. What I don't understand though, is don't most cruise lines have similar policies? I didn't think Royal's was so different??? How could the travel agent not know?

[AlexanderBeetle]

From the article: "Denise Réaume, a University of Toronto law professor who specializes in discrimination law, said that, in general, refusing a pregnant woman a service is illegal in many jurisdictions, including Ontario.

 

“To discriminate against pregnant people is to discriminate against women,” said Réaume"

 

The policy is far from discrimination. I think this is being thrown around too loosely. RCCL could probably do a bit better of a job to make sure people are aware of the policy but to start claiming discrimination against pregnant women sounds more like fanning the flames to me.

[life_dizzy]

“The girl at the counter said ‘any chance you’re pregnant?’ And I was taken off guard and said ‘yes, I found out a few days before we left’ and she said ‘do you have a note?’ She told us you cannot get on without a note,” said Ligori.

 

Ligori had shown positive on a home pregnancy test but had not yet been to her family doctor. She and her husband did not want to say anything to family members, or their two young sons, because the pregnancy was at the very early stages.

 

“We were treated like parasites,” Ligori said of Royal Caribbean, which refused to accept a hastily-written medical letter from a doctor arranged in Ontario. The note read that there was no reason Ligori could not travel.

 

 

 

 

I don't think they had the hastily written note until they found out that they needed one in Florida. I marked in bold why I think this. If she brought the note from Canada she would have know that she needed it in the first place, and it would not have been hastily written. The news source also did not go on and on about it saying that RC did not accept the note written by her doctor prior to leaving Ontario.

 

I tend to think they did not accept the note is because there was no way a doctor in Ontario could review his patient who is in Florida. Once they found out they needed a note they contacted their family Dr and he faxed one off. Other option could have been perhaps they called a friend who is a Dr and got one.

 

Once the pregnant lady is under scrutiny of the boarding agents and they know she has no note they would immediately wonder how did she get one from a doctor who is thousands of miles away in an hour or two. It would have looked worse if it was dated for Embarkation day, not to mention how could the Doctor give an early pregnancy exam from so far away.

 

Only guesses but the theory makes sense.

 

I see what you're saying. But then she also says she went to the doctor in FL after the ship left, and it stated they gave her a note there without giving her a pregnancy test! So, it's kind of the same theory in my mind as the Canadian doc's note.

 

Either way, I think both parties could have done some things differently. It was an honest mistake, so it's unfortunate that they were treated with rudeness just because of it. In the end, they got to go on their cruise and now Royal is apparently "looking into it"...It's just sad to me that someone's honesty can cause that much trouble.

[boulders]

From the article: "Denise Réaume, a University of Toronto law professor who specializes in discrimination law, said that, in general, refusing a pregnant woman a service is illegal in many jurisdictions, including Ontario.

 

“To discriminate against pregnant people is to discriminate against women,” said Réaume"

 

The policy is far from discrimination. I think this is being thrown around too loosely. RCCL could probably do a bit better of a job to make sure people are aware of the policy but to start claiming discrimination against pregnant women sounds more like fanning the flames to me.

 

Of course it's discrimination. If you read the contracts carefully, you will see that they require anyone with a serious illness to be stable. Have you ever heard of them requiring a doctor's note from a 70 year old male? Maybe he's had several heart attacks and a bypass and might keel over? Any notes required for diabetics? Asthmatics? People with food allergies? People who've had cancer?

 

If they're going to require pregnant people to be fit to travel and to provide a note to that effect, they should require it of everyone.

[AlexanderBeetle]

Of course it's discrimination. If you read the contracts carefully, you will see that they require anyone with a serious illness to be stable. Have you ever heard of them requiring a doctor's note from a 70 year old male? Maybe he's had several heart attacks and a bypass and might keel over? Any notes required for diabetics? Asthmatics? People with food allergies? People who've had cancer?

 

If they're going to require pregnant people to be fit to travel and to provide a note to that effect, they should require it of everyone.

 

A pregnancy has another life involved. If someone is 20 weeks along and suddenly goes into labor, the ship isn't going to be equipped with a NICU to try to save the baby. All the other items you mentioned can typically be controlled by the patient with their medication and under their physicians care and paramedics are available on the ship. Big difference. Not discrimination.

[vacation_junkie]

Having 1st hand knowledge of the said woman.

 

You are not getting the full story!!!!!!

 

She was fine with the outcome until months later a "Friend" suggested she go public with it because maybe she will get a "free" cruise out of it.

 

The letter that was sent from the Dr in Canada was a generic letter.

 

The Dr. whom sent the letter did not physically see this woman. And it was documented as such.

 

There for she was not physically checked out by a licensed physician and deemed safe to cruise. That is why they did not accept it.

 

Being a Dr. I would NEVER risk my license by deeming someone safe to cruise without seeing them.

 

She unfortunately suffered a miscarriage shortly after the cruise.

 

Was she deemed fit to Cruise? Did she physically see a Physician? NO!!

 

Could she have had the miscarriage while onboard. Absolutely!

 

Is the infirmary set up to handle genealogical procedures such as a D&C should it need to be done on an emergency basis? NO!

 

RCCL has refunded the first 2 days of their cruise cost and ALL additional expenses incurred.

 

 

Realistically she is responsible for reading her cruise contract. If she can't do so and abide by the terms the RCCL owes her nothing.

Edited July 25, 2014 by vacation_junkie

[AlexanderBeetle]

Could she have had the miscarriage while onboard. Absolutely!

 

Is the infirmary set up to handle genealogical procedures such as a D&C should it need to be done on an emergency basis? NO!

 

RCCL has refunded the first 2 days of their cruise cost and ALL additional expenses incurred.

 

Exactly. There is good reason for the policy.

 

The timing, the way it's being spun, it all seems very fishy. They were offered to cruise the Allure the following day. They were reimbursed for the missed two days. There's no story here once you wade through the BS.

[squadron]

Having 1st hand knowledge of the said woman.

 

You are not getting the full story!!!!!!

 

She was fine with the outcome until months later a "Friend" suggested she go public with it because maybe she will get a "free" cruise out of it.

 

The letter that was sent from the Dr in Canada was a generic letter.

 

The Dr. whom sent the letter did not physically see this woman. And it was documented as such.

 

There for she was not physically checked out by a licensed physician and deemed safe to cruise. That is why they did not accept it.

 

Being a Dr. I would NEVER risk my license by deeming someone safe to cruise without seeing them.

 

She unfortunately suffered a miscarriage shortly after the cruise.

 

Was she deemed fit to Cruise? Did she physically see a Physician? NO!!

 

Could she have had the miscarriage while onboard. Absolutely!

 

Is the infirmary set up to handle genealogical procedures such as a D&C should it need to be done on an emergency basis? NO!

 

RCCL has refunded the first 2 days of their cruise cost and ALL additional expenses incurred.

 

 

Realistically she is responsible for reading her cruise contract. If she can't do so and abide by the terms the RCCL owes her nothing.

 

Agreed! She isn't in my opinion eligible for any compensation. Everyone should be responsible to read all documents.

[boulders]

Here is the language from the cruise contract. I just completed mine a few minutes ago.

 

12. FITNESS TO TRAVEL; DENIAL OF BOARDING; MINORS:

a) Passenger warrants that he and those traveling with him are fit for travel and that such travel will not endanger themselves or others.

b) Minors - Any Guest under the age of 18 shall be considered a minor and must travel with a parent or Legal Guardian or such other person as may be permitted by Carrier's policies.

c) Minimum Age. No Guest under the age of 21 will consume any alcoholic beverages while on board the Vessel or Transport except as may be permitted by Carrier's policy. No Guest under the age of twenty-one (21) will be booked in a stateroom unless accompanied by an adult twenty-one (21) years of age or older, except for minors sailing with their parents or guardians in adjacent staterooms, or for under-aged married couples (proof of marriage is required) or except as otherwise permitted by Carrier?s policy. Carrier reserves the right to request proof of age at any time and Passenger's age on the date of sailing determines his or her status for the entire cruise vacation.

d) Pregnancy and Infants - Any Passenger who will enter the 24th week of pregnancy by the beginning of, or at any time during their cruise or CruiseTour agrees not to book the cruise or board the Vessel or Transport under any circumstances. No infants under a specific age (at least six (6) months for most cruises but twelve (12) months for other cruises) shall be booked on a cruise or CruiseTour, nor brought onboard the Vessel or Transport by any Passenger under any circumstances. The most current minimum age requirements are available online at http://www.RoyalCaribbean.com.

e) Special Needs. Any Passenger with mobility, communication or other impairments, or other special or medical needs that may require medical care or special accommodations during the cruise or CruiseTour, including but not limited to the use of any service animal, must notify the Carrier of any such condition at the time of booking. Passenger agrees to accept responsibility and reimburse Carrier for any loss, damage or expense whatsoever related to the presence of any service animal brought on board the Vessel or Transport. Passengers acknowledge and understand that certain international safety requirements, shipbuilding standards, and/or applicable regulations involving design, construction or operation of the Vessel may restrict access to facilities or activities for persons with mobility, communication or other impairments or special needs. Passengers requiring the use of a wheelchair must provide their own wheelchair (that must be of a size and type that can be accommodated on the Vessel) as wheelchairs carried on board are for emergency use only.

f) Carrier shall have the right to deny boarding for violations of any of the policies set forth in this Section 12. If Carrier exercises its rights under this Section 12, Passenger shall have no claim against Carrier whatsoever and Carrier shall have no liability for refund, compensation loss or damages of Passenger, including but not limited to any expenses incurred by Passenger for accommodations or repatriation.

 

There is NOTHING in the cruise contract that says you must supply a note if you are pregnant.

[LMaxwell]

Agreed! She isn't in my opinion eligible for any compensation. Everyone should be responsible to read all documents.

 

I will admit, I was ignorant to the policy until about a month or two ago when I read someones post on here on hurdles that they had to go through last minute to board.

 

I was thankful they posted. I took the policy to our doctor and with his handy dandy secret decoder chart he announced we were not going on our next cruise. I was able to cancel before penalty phase, so no financial loss on that; other than giving up a very good deal.

 

I feel bad for someone getting jammed up like that AT the pier though. Not everyone reads every policy or fully understands what they are answering as to the impact of their answer.

[S.A.M.J.R.]

So let's say she hadn't taken the home pregnancy test and went on the cruise. Would she have grounds to sue RCI (and win) if there's a complication?

 

What if she lied and said she's not pregnant? Could she win a lawsuit?

 

Have doctors every told anyone at the beginning stages of their pregnancy (say within the first 6 weeks) they're not fit to travel? As mentioned, it used to be you wouldn't even know until 3-4 weeks.

 

Last but not least, I'm willing to wager many women on a cruise, if asked "is it POSSIBLE you're pregnant?" would have to honestly answer "yes". All it would take is having intercourse in the last couple weeks to make that possible. The odds may be against it, but it would still be possible.

 

As far as the policy, according to the above linked article and an RCI VP...

He said Ligori shouldn’t have been asked whether she was pregnant and that the company’s policy requiring pregnant women to submit a doctor’s note is designed to “protect people at a much later stage of pregnancy.”

[LMaxwell]

Here is the language from the cruise contract. I just completed mine a few minutes ago.

 

 

 

There is NOTHING in the cruise contract that says you must supply a note if you are pregnant.

 

Hey look how long it took me to find something contradicting what you just posted! I am not saying YOU are wrong or anything like that. I am saying that RCI policies over the web can vary depending on which link you click for the same topic. I think you can find Chops prices on the website for 25, 30, 35 still. Make of it what you will

 

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/customersupport/faq/details.do?pagename=frequently_asked_questions&faqId=313&faqSubjectId=333

 

 

Q: Can I cruise if I am pregnant?

 

A: Royal Caribbean International cannot accept guests who will have entered their 24th week of pregnancy by the beginning of, or at any time during the cruise or cruisetour. A physician's "Fit to Travel" note is required prior to sailing, stating how far along (in weeks) your pregnancy will be at the beginning of the cruise and confirming that you are in good health and not experiencing a high-risk pregnancy. The "Fit to Travel" note should be faxed to the Access Department at 1-954-628-9622. Please contact us at 1-866-592-7225 or at special_needs@rccl.com if you have already booked a cruise or cruisetour and do not meet this requirement.

Edited July 25, 2014 by LMaxwell

[S.A.M.J.R.]

Hey look how long it took me to find something contradicting what you just posted! I am not saying YOU are wrong or anything like that. I am saying that RCI policies over the web can vary depending on which link you click for the same topic. I think you can find Chops prices on the website for 25, 30, 35 still. Make of it what you will

 

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/customersupport/faq/details.do?pagename=frequently_asked_questions&faqId=313&faqSubjectId=333

 

 

Q: Can I cruise if I am pregnant?

 

A: Royal Caribbean International cannot accept guests who will have entered their 24th week of pregnancy by the beginning of, or at any time during the cruise or cruisetour. A physician's "Fit to Travel" note is required prior to sailing, stating how far along (in weeks) your pregnancy will be at the beginning of the cruise and confirming that you are in good health and not experiencing a high-risk pregnancy. The "Fit to Travel" note should be faxed to the Access Department at 1-954-628-9622. Please contact us at 1-866-592-7225 or at special_needs@rccl.com if you have already booked a cruise or cruisetour and do not meet this requirement.

But everyone is saying "it's in the contract". So now everyone is expected to not only read the contract, but read all the FAQs? :confused:

[LMaxwell]

But everyone is saying "it's in the contract". So now everyone is expected to not only read the contract, but read all the FAQs? :confused:

 

I don't know the answer to your question. I'm just informing what the policy states and the fact that information you receive from RCI may not always be the most up to date, accurate, or agree with other posted policies.

 

Like I said, I was not aware of this specific wording until someone mentioned it on the boards a month or two back.

[robtulipe]

Here is the language from the cruise contract. I just completed mine a few minutes ago.

 

 

 

There is NOTHING in the cruise contract that says you must supply a note if you are pregnant.

 

I agree. This is what is on the RCI web site when I look at the cruise contract information.

RCI should have the doctor note requirement if pregnant in the contract if they want to enforce this policy to the extend of denial of boarding to a woman in this situation.

 

Cruise Ticket Contract

The CTC contains limits on the rights of passengers. It is important that you carefully read all terms of the CTC before accepting. If you choose not to accept the terms you will not be able to print your SetSail Pass. Youll need to finish the check in process at the pier.

Edited July 25, 2014 by robtulipe

[vacation_junkie]

 

have doctors every told anyone at the beginning stages of their pregnancy (say within the first 6 weeks) they're not fit to travel? As mentioned, it used to be you wouldn't even know until 3-4 weeks.

 

Yes! They have...

Edited July 25, 2014 by vacation_junkie

[A&L_Ont]

I see what you're saying. But then she also says she went to the doctor in FL after the ship left, and it stated they gave her a note there without giving her a pregnancy test! So, it's kind of the same theory in my mind as the Canadian doc's note.

 

Either way, I think both parties could have done some things differently. It was an honest mistake, so it's unfortunate that they were treated with rudeness just because of it. In the end, they got to go on their cruise and now Royal is apparently "looking into it"...It's just sad to me that someone's honesty can cause that much trouble.

 

Life Dizzy, I see where you care coming from.

 

She did see a Dr. in Florida, but who really knows what that doctor did in regards to her pregnancy review. Perhaps the hospital sees this more than we can guess. That being said it is that doctor’s license that provides their pay check. If they do not want to do the proper review of their patient, it is their choice. However, she saw there in the flesh, and it was not a review over the phone. That being said it is really just semantics.

 

Hind sight is 20/20 and perhaps their first action should have been going immediately to the Dr. in Florida. Perhaps they might have made it back in time for embarkation. Unfortunately they would have lost a lot of time on the phone to Ontario explaining the situation, followed by trying to figure out what to do once the faxed letter was declined.

Perhaps/hopefully RC will add a feature to on-line check-in that will occur for female cruisers that fall into the age demographic that could be pregnant. If they are, then when they do on-line check-in they are notified of the needed doctors note. Then this type of situation could be avoided in the future.

 

One would hope from all of this mess RC and its check-in agents will set up a protocol to assist guests who end up in this situation at dock side. Step one on the form should be, “Send pregnant cruise to hospital "X" immediately to get checked properly ASAP.” Then it would fulfill the required documents avoiding possible lawsuit situations. More importantly there would be happy cruisers on board, not a day late and dollars short.

 

It is sad that their honesty had led to this outcome. Hopefully this can be corrected so it doesn't occur again. It is strange though that it took from February, when this occurred, to July for this to become a news story.

[cruzincurt]

Upon boarding the Carnival Legend in June, the question was asked of my wife who is 60.

 

After boarding, we read that many of the excursions blocked anyone pregnant (nothing about how many weeks), just "pregnant". So we thought this question was to flag someone in the computer if they tried to book one of the denied excursions.

[FLACRUISER99]

But everyone is saying "it's in the contract". So now everyone is expected to not only read the contract, but read all the FAQs? :confused:

 

 

I just checked my Docs for my next 2 cruises and the "note" phrase is in both. Page 19 section 12

 

 

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Edited July 25, 2014 by FLACRUISER99