Hal discriminates European cruisers

[Fouremco]

We also often share entrees in the US because of portion size. And what is with the fries with everything and so many of them?

 

There is price discrimination in parts of the travel industry in many countries....the UK included. As Canadians we can sometimes not access sertain travel offers in the UK or if we can they are more expensive. We have found ways to circumvent this. Fortunately we have several accommodation addresses that we can use to get around these artificial barriers.

This brings to mind my dearly departed in-laws, who frequently enjoyed a week or two in Bermuda or the Bahamas back in the sixties and seventies. They actually found it to be cheaper to fly to London and spend a couple of days before flying on a UK package to one of the islands and back than to travel directly from Ottawa. More importantly for them, they were able to get better accommodation as well, even with the lower price. I doubt that this extreme would still be the case today, but there are definitely superior offerings from UK TAs, just possibly not for cruises.

[Watson's aunt]

Hi

 

 

I am 68 and I have never had a cup of coffee.. But having cruised the last 4 years My bill for the last 4 cruises would have gotten mr another cruise or two and I am a solo. I buy the wine package and visit the happy hours with a nice scotch/Irish wiskey.. Look at the cost of living here in US and the exchange rate.. Do Hal staff a favor stay away from HAl and you can save the few hundred dollars that you will save from stiffing the best crew in the world. I will not look at other ships because of the HAl staff. I beeen on some of those ships

 

 

Mary

[chrispb]

Maybe there was a generation, now mostly dead, that grew up during Prohibition who kept to these teetotalling habits and made a lasting impression on Europeans?

 

 

Those Europeans are now mostly dead too, 1930c ? :cool:

[RDC1]

Totally agree with this. People from US seem to think that it is further for them to get to Europe than it is for Europeans to get to US.

 

Apart from the cost, my main complaint is the situation of deposits. In the US if you cancel up to final payment your deposit is returned. When we book, however far before the cruise, we lose our deposit if we cancel.

 

I think that booking conditions should be the same no matter which country we are from.

 

To get the same booking conditions you first need to:

 

1. Get all national laws in agreement concerning travel (insurance, cancellation, inclusions, etc)

2. Get the contracts with the travel agent associations in each area in agreement

3. Eliminate currency exchange rate risk

4. Eliminate regional differences in spending patterns, including tipping.

 

Do all of those then you might start to get standardization in pricing and booking terms. Before taking care of those probably not.

[VMax1700]

To get the same booking conditions you first need to:

 

1. Get all national laws in agreement concerning travel (insurance, cancellation, inclusions, etc) Not relevant. insurance is an extra. Cancellation can have the same regulations in each country if the cruise lines want to do it. Indeed I can (and have), cancelled cruises booked with FCC's and there is no problem, but if I try to cancel a cruise booked with a cash deposit, then I lose the deposit.

2. Get the contracts with the travel agent associations in each area in agreement again not relevant. If you want to book with a travel agent then that is your perogative, otherwise book directly with the cruise line.

3. Eliminate currency exchange rate risk not relevant to return of deposit which would be in the same currency as the deposit was originally made.

4. Eliminate regional differences in spending patterns, including tipping. ??????

 

Do all of those then you might start to get standardization in pricing and booking terms. Before taking care of those probably not.

 

Different prices and different terms and conditions is simply a way of fattening the bottom line of the cruise companies.

Why? - because we allow them to do it.

[navybankerteacher]

Different prices and different terms and conditions is simply a way of fattening the bottom line of the cruise companies.

Why? - because we allow them to do it.

 

Do you really think a cruise line would rather get $1,000 from an American, for example, than the GBP equivalent of $1,001 from a Brit? They want to get the highest fare possible for each cabin they sell - so there has to be some reason, beyond the control of the line, for any significant differences in prices.

[RDC1]

Different prices and different terms and conditions is simply a way of fattening the bottom line of the cruise companies.

Why? - because we allow them to do it.

 

Originally Posted by RDC1 with red comments added by VMax1700

To get the same booking conditions you first need to:

 

1. Get all national laws in agreement concerning travel (insurance, cancellation, inclusions, etc) Not relevant. insurance is an extra. Cancellation can have the same regulations in each country if the cruise lines want to do it. Indeed I can (and have), cancelled cruises booked with FCC's and there is no problem, but if I try to cancel a cruise booked with a cash deposit, then I lose the deposit.

2. Get the contracts with the travel agent associations in each area in agreement again not relevant. If you want to book with a travel agent then that is your perogative, otherwise book directly with the cruise line.

3. Eliminate currency exchange rate risk not relevant to return of deposit which would be in the same currency as the deposit was originally made.

4. Eliminate regional differences in spending patterns, including tipping. ??????

 

Do all of those then you might start to get standardization in pricing and booking terms. Before taking care of those probably not.

Since you did not include your answers in a way that they would be referenced in a response I had to copy them into my response.

 

1. Some countries have some travel protections built into their laws. Anyone that has done risk analysis knows that those protections are calculated in at a cost. In the revenue models the potential costs that one region might have is offset in the revenue models by higher costs elsewhere. Thus some of the differences in business models. Also while cruiselines are located in one country. They have a business presence in several countries. That means that they are subject to those countries laws and in many cases income from the residents of those countries, booked through the office in that country is taxed in that country. Different tax treatment, different cost structures. It all adds up to different business practices driven by pricing models. The goal is to end up with a consistent revenue per passenger.

 

2. The cruise lines sign contracts with travel agency associations (Australia comes to mind for example) where they agree to business practices. They differ from country to country. Part of that I am pretty sure is why residents of a given country are supposed to go either through their countries travel agents or required to book the fee structure for that country. Pretty much a non-starter for a travel agency association to sign an agreement to sell cruises, if they have to compete with a totally different price structure in a different country with different protections and different labor and tax laws.

 

3. Currency risk again relates to the entire business model, including risk management. If you are working towards a standard profit model, revenue received in other currencies might be a benefit sometimes and a loss at others. There are fairly complex models for assessing risk and including it in the revenue models. As far as your claim about no risk in refunding a deposit in the same currency, depends upon how much the exchange rate as fluctuated between the original payment and the refund. But the bigger question is the cost of doing business in the other currency (banking fees, exchange rates, etc) in total and how that is calculated into the models.

 

4. People from different regions have different habits. They include tipping, purchasing other services, cancellation rates, etc. those also get worked into the revenue models and the models are adjusted accordingly. Also the models will take a look at cost of services in those countries and look at them at a competitive level and adjust. For example when I travel to UK I find that the prices are pretty much higher in the UK at a rate similar to the dollar pound exchange rate. Some that costs 1 dollar in the US costs 1 pound in the UK. That would mean that in doing a pricing model that competitive cost part of the model would start at a higher level in the UK then in the US.

Edited August 4, 2014 by RDC1

[iancal]

Differential country pricing in the manufactured goods sector is very common. It is one of the main reasons for the grey market. Everything from batteries to watches...always name brands.

 

It is based on selling what the market will bear...not what it sells for in another market. It only works if you can control the market or effectively control the distribution.

[Wendy-Europe]

I am from one of the "discriminated" countries....:)

 

My experience is: Sometimes you win, sometimes you loose. There is no al the times cheaper market.

 

Cruiselines try to make the money where they were able to do - and the fact is: I booked cruises in the US and booked them in the european market - Some cruiselines do not allow their agents to accept foreign bookings (I am not allowed to book princess in the US).

 

But I made great deals in Europe too - which were not available in the US.

 

But you should have in your mind, that - depending on the country where you place your reservation - your legal rights are different.

 

In Europe you are protected by European law, but you have more strict cancellation penalities. (f.e.: starting from the first day after booking - no "final payment rule").

 

Make sure not just to check the price - check the whole contract you are signing.

 

There are good offers in each market!

[iancal]

We very often purchase travel, air,hotels,cruises,packages outside of our country of residence. Sometimes because of price, sometimes because of availability. We always check local, in country pricing. There are sometimes significant savings to be had simply by doing this.

[cruising cockroach]

Just saw this in a British paper:

 

The average daily consumption of alcohol on a one week cruise is:

 

six beers, a couple of cocktails, a bottle of wine and a pair of whiskies

[navybankerteacher]

Just saw this in a British paper:

 

The average daily consumption of alcohol on a one week cruise is:

 

Wow!!! Someone is sacrificing his liver for me. I'd estimate my consumption at perhaps one mixed drink, one beer and probably three glasses of wine.

 

It reminds me of the McDonald's hamburgers claim of "billions and billions served" - considering my total lack of participation, someone else must really be clogging his arteries.

[I_r_a]

Hey Cy,

 

Have you factored in the $1000 pp you don't have to pay for air fare?

 

Ira

[Sailingpeace]

Wow! I always taught I was Canadian, now I have to get my wine glass down and find out where I am from :eek: !!! Maybe that is why I had wine every night on my last Holland Cruise, and Champagne also ( I had braught that one onboard ;) ).

For sure, this is going to be a fun thread .

Edited August 11, 2014 by Sailingpeace

[Dutch_cruiser]

I’ve done several cruises with the Holland America Line and every time it was the same thing. Bars closed at 23.15- 23.30 because there were not enough paying customers. Even the Piano player mentioned it several times. The bars were filled though, but just a few Europeans paid for their drinks. Americans only had the free water!

 

I do not believe the so called hotel service charge is for the underpaid workers.

A company is responsible to pay decent wages. Slavery has been abolished a long time ago.

Do the math. Let’s say a ship with 2000 passengers. Overall on board let’s say 80% that’s 1600 passengers each paying 11 us dollars makes 17600 dollars per day. That’s 528000 us dollars per month per ship. All this money doesn’t go to the underpaid workers. Most of the money is getting in the deep pockets of the cruise line.

 

As far as the discrimination, I think it’s ridicules how Hal treats European and Australians differently. You are all on the same cruise and why should people from a certain continent get more advantages like on board credits and or free beverage packages. I agree, no more HAL for me.

In Europe we are redirected to other internet pages so they do not let us see the prices Americans pay. Well just use a proxy server(US or Canadian one) and you can see the ridicules differences in pricing and or free extras.

[navybankerteacher]

I’ve done several cruises with the Holland America Line and every time it was the same thing. Bars closed at 23.15- 23.30 because there were not enough paying customers. Even the Piano player mentioned it several times. The bars were filled though, but just a few Europeans paid for their drinks. Americans only had the free water!

 

I do not believe the so called hotel service charge is for the underpaid workers.

A company is responsible to pay decent wages. Slavery has been abolished a long time ago.

Do the math. Let’s say a ship with 2000 passengers. Overall on board let’s say 80% that’s 1600 passengers each paying 11 us dollars makes 17600 dollars per day. That’s 528000 us dollars per month per ship. All this money doesn’t go to the underpaid workers. Most of the money is getting in the deep pockets of the cruise line.

 

As far as the discrimination, I think it’s ridicules how Hal treats European and Australians differently. You are all on the same cruise and why should people from a certain continent get more advantages like on board credits and or free beverage packages. I agree, no more HAL for me.

In Europe we are redirected to other internet pages so they do not let us see the prices Americans pay. Well just use a proxy server(US or Canadian one) and you can see the ridicules differences in pricing and or free extras.

 

Hard to understand what discrimination is involved in supposed drinking rates (of course, I have not seen that many non-drinking Americans). If Americans do drink less on some cruises, perhaps it is because the Europeans are given favorable packages. So what point is being attempted here?

 

When it comes to the tip calculations: what has the abolition of slavery got to do with things? Also, that supposed $528,000 per month divided among the (likely) 500 of the crew participating in tip pool works out to just $1,056 per month each, so it's hardly "... all this money...". What indication is there that the service charge (whatever the amount) does NOT get distributed.

 

Does HAL really treat Europeans differently, or are different prices the result of European governments' regulation?

[bahrain_not_dubai!]

HAL and Cunard also tried to do this with people from the GCC for a while- as I split my time between the GCC and the UK, having addresses in both meant that I could get ''less'' ripped off with my UK address, while still paying more than the US cruiser. Then they realised it was working against them and both the UK fares are adjusted as per the pound vs dollar (meaning the same as the USD price), and from the GCC I can pay in USD too, making it all around a more desirable package. I'm under the impression Cunard still rips UK cruisers off vs the US price unless they're selling a 'getaway' fare.

 

Nonetheless, I think most companies discriminate against Europeans- everything, from a pair of Levis to a timepiece etc go for considerably more in the UK than they do elsewhere.

Edited August 16, 2014 by bahrain_not_dubai!

[SeaWatch]

Australians get the Explore 4 without the drinks card and we have to fly further than US residents. Perhaps they could give us some incentive too :D

 

I agree with you: we were on the NA in June and over 700 passengers were from

Australia or NZ. Many had the promotional drink cards. To restrict anyone from this promotion makes NO business sense let alone from a public relations standpoint.

[rojay]

As an Aussie, I am pretty fed up with HAL, they are my favourite cruise line but I am certainly thinking of going back to Celebrity. My main complaint is quite simple. I am NOT happy about the fact that as Australians and other countries we are not offered the same deal to have a beverage card as part of the explore 4 deal, it would be nice just to have the same opportunity as other countries.

I accept I will have to pay dearer for a cruise, fly the other side of the world for the majority of cruise destinations, that is my choice if I want to go to those destinations.

Surely, regardless of country were we live, if are cruising within or own back yard or internationally, with an international cruise line, we should all deserve to have access to the same deals?

Just my opinion.:confused:

[bergjd]

I would never remove my service charge, but for those of you that think this is an additional reward for service you are living in a dream world. That service charge is part of their negotiated contract. HAL guarantees a steward (for example) will make a minimum amount of money. The employee’s share of the service charge is applied first and then HAL makes up the difference to reach the amount agreed upon in the contract. So does the employee makes less if you don’t pay the service charge? No, HAL has to pay more.

 

My only comment is that if you want to reward someone, pay them cash in addition to the service charge, never increase the amount of service charge, which HAL will gladly let you do. Also, if you remove the service charge and then pay cash to the employee, they are obligated to turn in that cash to the “kitty” and can lose their jobs if they don’t. However, if the service charge has been paid, they can keep all extra cash.

[navybankerteacher]

 

Nonetheless, I think most companies discriminate against Europeans- everything, from a pair of Levis to a timepiece etc go for considerably more in the UK than they do elsewhere.

 

You must be kidding! Does no one in Europe understand that the 15% to 20% value added tax that their governments impose upon all their purchases, or the import duties applied, might have something to do with what they pay for their purchases?

[fuzzywuzzy]

You must be kidding! Does no one in Europe understand that the 15% to 20% value added tax that their governments impose upon all their purchases, or the import duties applied, might have something to do with what they pay for their purchases?

 

That is so correct! Hasn't anybody heard of the exchange rate?

[doublebzz]

You must be kidding! Does no one in Europe understand that the 15% to 20% value added tax that their governments impose upon all their purchases, or the import duties applied, might have something to do with what they pay for their purchases?

 

Absolutely right plus customs duties which are much higher than U.S. import taxes. Maybe, that accounts for the reason why I can buy a bottle of Yellow Tail cheaper in San Francisco than Sydney.

[navybankerteacher]

Absolutely right plus customs duties which are much higher than U.S. import taxes. Maybe, that accounts for the reason why I can buy a bottle of Yellow Tail cheaper in San Francisco than Sydney.

 

Most people prefer to blame some sinister foreign corporate conspiracy than recognize the fact that it is their own government who is picking their pockets.

[LindaM]

HAL bent over backwards to accomodate the European's on our recent Prinsendam cruise. The captain left so a Dutch captain could take over. The announcements were in English and Dutch. Even the cruise director was Dutch. If they had to pay a little more to have that advantage, I would think they would be happy to do it. It made the cruise much easier for them. There were even Dutch shore excursions!! If I were HAL, I would charge them more for those reasons.