Why is everyone hating on formal nights?

[CaveDiving]

I need to comment that I am really amazed at the huge response on this thread. There have already been 200 postings in only three days. It is clearly a subject about which many people have rather strong feelings.

 

I will go on record as voting for there to be more formal nights rather than less. Leisurely, refined dining is, to us, one of the more desirable features of cruising. This is also why we always select a fixed dining situation, as we find sharing experiences with newly made friends is also a highly desirable feature of cruising. I understand that some folks complain about the service speed in La Fontaine dining room but we actually look forward to a relaxed conversation at dinner each day.

 

I agree very strongly with the posters who have commented that whatever the dress code is on a HAL ship, it should be enforced. To me, the idea of going to the trouble of defining a dress code in writing, but then enforcing it only sporadically, is not beneficial. I am not commenting on what the dress code should be, only that whatever it is, it should be enforced uniformly.

 

Perhaps an interesting suggestion might be to have only “formal optional” nights on all cruises of less than, say, 12 or 13 nights and continue to have 2 formal nights per week for all cruises longer than this. It would seem that passengers on shorter cruises are often luggage capacity limited while those taking longer cruises may choose to have their luggage shipped to the ship and later, home. Of course if desired, the cruise time limit to have formal nights could be adjusted, so long as it was clearly defined before reservations were accepted for each cruise.

 

We almost always take longer cruises and for clothing, do not follow the adage that less is more. We like to dress for dinner each night rather than continuing to wear what we have had on during the day. We probably dress more formally than most other cruisers as, for example, I wear a sport jacket with an open, button down collared shirt and dress slacks or a suit every night except on formal nights when I wear a tuxedo. No one makes me do this but we enjoy the change of pace from our informal life style at home in rural Arizona.

 

On a positive note, perhaps others might suggest different possibilities for a dress code that HAL might find worthy of consideration. I’m sure the feedback will be rapid on this thread.

 

Scott & Karen

Edited August 29, 2014 by CaveDiving

[harrodsfan]

We live in Sydney Australia and our last cruise was in the Med. We visited friends in Dubai on the way over, toured in Italy and flew to London afterwards to stay with our daughter. We were away eight weeks and that is a pretty typical Aussie holiday. We had to pack for weather ranging from 45 Celsius in Dubai to potential snow in London. So having to pack and carry formal clothes was a bit of a chore even though I do enjoy the formal nights. Also we do not particularly like buffets, being the alternative.

If we were to just go on a cruise, especially if it started in Sydney, we would be a lot more positive about it. Even though we get the 20k baggage allowance on the long segments we often have a short segment with a budget airline and too much luggage is even more of a pest.

I know we could hire, but the reason we can afford to travel is partly a result of DH's tight disposition about many things!

 

I have to admit that this is a big issue for us too. More for husband. He loves to dress up but to travel with a tux, dressy shoes etc takes up a lot of luggage pounds..( I personally would not have married a man who objected to dressing up. my ex did and that is one reason he is an ex...) It easier for me to add a sparkly shawl and jewelry to basic black. We love the country club casual of Regent and Oceanis My thought is that people should just wear what they want within reason...like no flip flops and shorts...jmho.

[POA1]

I am buying the Attababe jacket and pants. For real.

You must take pictures. :D

[kangforpres]

Since this tread started so much debate I started a poll which will run through Labor Day, which for you not in the USA is September 1. In an effort to be somewhat scientific please only respond once, and ask the person you usually cruise with what their response is too.

 

Thanks,

 

Paul

[LMaxwell]

Since this tread started so much debate I started a poll which will run through Labor Day, which for you not in the USA is September 1. In an effort to be somewhat scientific please only respond once, and ask the person you usually cruise with what their response is too.

 

Thanks,

 

Paul

 

That's not a poll. And to answer your original question, not everyone likes the same things you like. And there's nothing the matter with that.

[Cqis]

As laid back as New Orleans is ,if a Carnival Ball says formal, and if your host paid over $2000.00 for the table you will be turned away at the door, even if a DJ is playing and not a band; including "hole in the walls".

 

My DH has gotten spoiled on the ship since he can wear a suit and not a tux. I will wear a shirt and pants three times on board, but I don't want to wear the formal ware more than once.I have to remind myself that I am not going to see any of these people at next weeks ball.

 

I am going to wear the same formal more than once because I am packing light this cruise.

 

so much for my two cents.

[KruzPrincess]

I'm actually stunned by the course of this thread. Some have basically said that if you don't agree with my opinions and views then you aren't as good as me. Someone equated people with less money as being equal to someone with poor taste and bad manners. Those dang bargain cruisers are the crux of the problem! 'You have no class if you don't love to dress up like I do' seems to be prevailing thought amongst some. Or, it's new cruisers who don't understand the tradition of cruising.

 

Well, folks, hang on because cruising has changed and it will continue to change whether you like it or not. Cruise lines need to fill the cabins with whoever will pay for them and they need to be able to satisfy a myriad of different wants and needs in their clientele. Not everyone is going to be like you. Not everyone is going to love what you love.

 

I have been cruising for 40 years. I've seen a lot of changes. Some I like and some I don't care for. I usually book a mini-suite. I spend a lot on these cruises. I'm a casual cruiser and I'm not ashamed of it. My money is just as good as your money and I do not like to dress up for formal nights.

 

I do try to respect other people who like formal night and I usually eat in an alternate dining option. I do usually bring something nice enough to wear in the MDR if I do eat there on a formal night. Those nice clothes are not real formal wear. The majority of the clothes I see on formal nights is not true formal wear. One of my friends loves to dress up and actually brings ball gowns for formal night. She just happens to love it. I don't. We still get along and have a lot of fun when we get the chance to cruise together. She's not offended or embarrassed by (or for) those of us who don't enjoy her same taste in clothes. I honestly don't see why this matters so much to some people.

 

I think it would help a lot if HAL added more alternative dining options for those who don't want to dress up. On Princess, all of the specialty restaurants have a smart casual dress code on formal night. The buffet, grill, International Café and pizza restaurants are open late. You have options and they are good options. Maybe HAL needs to rethink closing the alternate dining options so early.

[anniegb]

I have to admit that this is a big issue for us too. More for husband. He loves to dress up but to travel with a tux, dressy shoes etc takes up a lot of luggage pounds..( I personally would not have married a man who objected to dressing up. my ex did and that is one reason he is an ex...) It easier for me to add a sparkly shawl and jewelry to basic black. We love the country club casual of Regent and Oceanis My thought is that people should just wear what they want within reason...like no flip flops and shorts...jmho.

 

It is an issue for many.

 

Basic Black with sparkles works for me.

 

Annie

[RollieUK]

Why can I only answer one option in the poll?

 

The two options are not mutually exclusive and it is possible to agree with both

 

1. Do you want HAL to continue formal nights?

2. Do you think HAL should enforce it's dress code, even it's "smart casual" dress code?

 

I would like HAL to continue formal nights AND to enforce the dress code (ie yes to both answers). If it were enforced we might go to the MDR again.

 

[cruz chic]

I'm actually stunned by the course of this thread. Some have basically said that if you don't agree with my opinions and views then you aren't as good as me. Someone equated people with less money as being equal to someone with poor taste and bad manners. Those dang bargain cruisers are the crux of the problem! 'You have no class if you don't love to dress up like I do' seems to be prevailing thought amongst some. Or, it's new cruisers who don't understand the tradition of cruising.

 

Well, folks, hang on because cruising has changed and it will continue to change whether you like it or not. Cruise lines need to fill the cabins with whoever will pay for them and they need to be able to satisfy a myriad of different wants and needs in their clientele. Not everyone is going to be like you. Not everyone is going to love what you love.

 

I have been cruising for 40 years. I've seen a lot of changes. Some I like and some I don't care for. I usually book a mini-suite. I spend a lot on these cruises. I'm a casual cruiser and I'm not ashamed of it. My money is just as good as your money and I do not like to dress up for formal nights.

 

I do try to respect other people who like formal night and I usually eat in an alternate dining option. I do usually bring something nice enough to wear in the MDR if I do eat there on a formal night. Those nice clothes are not real formal wear. The majority of the clothes I see on formal nights is not true formal wear. One of my friends loves to dress up and actually brings ball gowns for formal night. She just happens to love it. I don't. We still get along and have a lot of fun when we get the chance to cruise together. She's not offended or embarrassed by (or for) those of us who don't enjoy her same taste in clothes. I honestly don't see why this matters so much to some people.

 

I think it would help a lot if HAL added more alternative dining options for those who don't want to dress up. On Princess, all of the specialty restaurants have a smart casual dress code on formal night. The buffet, grill, International Café and pizza restaurants are open late. You have options and they are good options. Maybe HAL needs to rethink closing the alternate dining options so early.

You will notice differences between Princess and Hal. Hal severely limits the lido hours. That said, their room service menu is much better than Princess. There are several things I like on each line but they will never be the same. I know there was one poster that was very disappointed with Hal because she liked so many things better on Princess. I wondered why she was switching if she hated Hal so much. It wasn't the odd thing it was everything. I wouldn't count on Hal making too many changes. They are very slow to do that.

[sapper1]

Since this tread started so much debate I started a poll which will run through Labor Day, which for you not in the USA is September 1. In an effort to be somewhat scientific please only respond once, and ask the person you usually cruise with what their response is too.

 

Thanks,

 

Paul

 

FYI, we observe Labour Day in Canada as well.

[iancal]

I think that HAL could easily satisfy a large number of people who do no wish to attend formal evenings in the MDR by providing a more reasonable alternative.

 

Other cruise lines do this and it seems to work well. Not certain what the big issue with HAL is.

[Fouremco]

FYI, we observe Labour Day in Canada as well.

My inner pedant wishes to point out that we observe Labour Day but they observe Labor Day! ;)

[POA1]

I think that HAL could easily satisfy a large number of people who do no wish to attend formal evenings in the MDR by providing a more reasonable alternative.

 

Other cruise lines do this and it seems to work well. Not certain what the big issue with HAL is.

Probably. My guess is that they don't, simply because they want to offer a more traditional cruising experience. If I wanted a less dressy, more casual experience, I wouldn't even have Holland America on my list of choices. There are so many other options. I can't imagine myself booking a HAL cruise and hoping it would become NCL or Princess. It would be like choosing Carnival and hoping for subdued decor, or picking Disney and hoping they'd lay off the whole character thing. (Especially, Duffy the Disney Bear, who along with the Snuggle Fabric Softener Bear, are minions of evil.)

[peaches from georgia]

Why can I only answer one option in the poll?

 

The two options are not mutually exclusive and it is possible to agree with both

 

1. Do you want HAL to continue formal nights?

2. Do you think HAL should enforce it's dress code, even it's "smart casual" dress code?

 

I would like HAL to continue formal nights AND to enforce the dress code (ie yes to both answers). If it were enforced we might go to the MDR again.

 

I thought the same thing about the poll. I expected the questions to be Do you want to continue formal nights? or Do you want all nights to be smart casual? However, the way the poll questions are worded in those posters who want formal nights and all nights' dress code enforced certainly would want to answer both the posted questions 'yes'.

[navybankerteacher]

I think that HAL could easily satisfy a large number of people who do no wish to attend formal evenings in the MDR by providing a more reasonable alternative.

 

Other cruise lines do this and it seems to work well. Not certain what the big issue with HAL is.

 

Another way of looking at it would be to propose that HAL could focus on those who like the quaint anachronism of formal nights: advertise that they exist and that the dress code will be enforced. It is the effort to be all things to all people that somehow leads to fewer people actually getting what they want.

 

Instead of HAL providing the alternative to formal nights to satisfy those who do not like them, they could simply let the bulk of other lines do it. -- and concentrate on satisfying those who do wish to attend formal evenings -- which would, in fact, be actually formal as a result of being attended by people who like formal evenings and happily comply with the relevant dress codes.

[Wakepatrol]

Hey they have videos on the television of "How To Wash Your Hands"

 

why not just have pictures with the red X on them of what not to wear in the dining room

 

ie tracksuit red x on it.

basketball shorts red x on it

shorts you mow your lawn with red x on it.

 

 

I keep hearing the phrase "Smart Casual" thrown around. If we could just reach that status,we'd certainly be making progress.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Wakepatrol

[Tarpeian Rock]

Another way of looking at it would be to propose that HAL could focus on those who like the quaint anachronism of formal nights: advertise that they exist and that the dress code will be enforced. It is the effort to be all things to all people that somehow leads to fewer people actually getting what they want.

 

Instead of HAL providing the alternative to formal nights to satisfy those who do not like them, they could simply let the bulk of other lines do it. -- and concentrate on satisfying those who do wish to attend formal evenings -- which would, in fact, be actually formal as a result of being attended by people who like formal evenings and happily comply with the relevant dress codes.

 

 

 

Is this effectively what Cunard does today? (Obviously itineraries can't be compared however.)

[Wakepatrol]

If people don't want to dress up,bring their own beverages,eat in a cafeteria for dinner,why bother? What's the allure of going on a cruise?

[sail7seas]

When HAL chose to begin describing acceptable formal wear for gentlemen as jacket and tie, they effectively ended formal night.

 

It took a few cruises after that change before my late DH and I recognized there were no more formal nights on HAL but that is fact.

 

We actually got so we're just fine with that. :o

DH always wore at the least requisite jacket and tie and more usually dark suit and I always dressed appropriately but for us, that was nothing that resembled the formal we always wore.

 

Formal night no longer exists on HAL no matter how hard some struggle to tell us it does. A blazer and tie can never be described as formal.

[cbr663]

I also believe that HAL wants to offer a more traditional cruising experience and is one of the reasons for formal nights. There are a large number of cruisers who enjoy formal nights and there are a large number of cruisers who prefer a more casual experience. There are lots of options for both these cruisers.

 

I also believe though that there are many cruisers who enjoy HAL, who also enjoy formal nights, but do not enjoy formal nights on a HAL ship. These are cruisers, like myself, who have experienced the MDR formal experience provided by HAL and did not enjoy it.

 

The challenge for HAL is that there simply isn't a huge demand for its ships. HAL has to work quite hard at filling many of its berths on many of its ships with fire sale pricing being quite common. Imagine further adding to this problem by alienating a passenger base who want to sail on HAL and just not participate in formal nights? HAL doesn't need to provide cruisers with more reasons not to book a HAL cruise, as it is already doing quite well in this area.

 

Like any company providing a product and service to its customers, HAL must continue to evolve to meet the needs of its customers. There are a large number of HAL customers that want formal nights, and there are a large number who do not care for it. Could this be an indication that HAL's customer base is changing? It may be, who knows?

 

One thing is certain though. The more crowded that the Lido becomes on formal nights and the more than passengers decide to avail of room service or the Dive In, the higher the risk that HAL will continue to alienate it passengers. Fact is that HAL needs to continually fill those berths, with or without the formal wear.

[3rdGenCunarder]

When HAL chose to begin describing acceptable formal wear for gentlemen as jacket and tie, they effectively ended formal night.

 

It took a few cruises after that change before my late DH and I recognized there were no more formal nights on HAL but that is fact.

 

We actually got so we're just fine with that. :o

DH always wore at the least requisite jacket and tie and more usually dark suit and I always dressed appropriately but for us, that was nothing that resembled the formal we always wore.

 

Formal night no longer exists on HAL no matter how hard some struggle to tell us it does. A blazer and tie can never be described as formal.

 

You're right about HAL's definition of formal. It isn't true formal or even close to it.

 

Maybe they need to come up with a new name for formal nights. That way, people who expect/want true formal won't be disappointed by the reality. And people who don't have or won't wear true formal clothing won't be afraid of/hate formal nights.

 

I hate to see all attempts at a dressier experience disappear, and formal optional just doesn't cut it. Been there, don't like it.

[Wakepatrol]

When HAL chose to begin describing acceptable formal wear for gentlemen as jacket and tie, they effectively ended formal night.

 

 

 

 

Bingo:cool:

[Wakepatrol]

I also believe that HAL wants to offer a more traditional cruising experience and is one of the reasons for formal nights. There are a large number of cruisers who enjoy formal nights and there are a large number of cruisers who prefer a more casual experience. There are lots of options for both these cruisers.

 

I also believe though that there are many cruisers who enjoy HAL, who also enjoy formal nights, but do not enjoy formal nights on a HAL ship. These are cruisers, like myself, who have experienced the MDR formal experience provided by HAL and did not enjoy it.

 

The challenge for HAL is that there simply isn't a huge demand for its ships. HAL has to work quite hard at filling many of its berths on many of its ships with fire sale pricing being quite common. Imagine further adding to this problem by alienating a passenger base who want to sail on HAL and just not participate in formal nights? HAL doesn't need to provide cruisers with more reasons not to book a HAL cruise, as it is already doing quite well in this area.

 

Like any company providing a product and service to its customers, HAL must continue to evolve to meet the needs of its customers. There are a large number of HAL customers that want formal nights, and there are a large number who do not care for it. Could this be an indication that HAL's customer base is changing? It may be, who knows?

 

One thing is certain though. The more crowded that the Lido becomes on formal nights and the more than passengers decide to avail of room service or the Dive In, the higher the risk that HAL will continue to alienate it passengers. Fact is that HAL needs to continually fill those berths, with or without the formal wear.

 

 

I find this post extremely confusing... so you're saying those that have no desire to dress up, are eating in the Lido yearning to be on a different cruise line so they could partake in the formal night activities and dress up?

[Windsailer]

If people don't want to dress up,bring their own beverages,eat in a cafeteria for dinner,why bother? What's the allure of going on a cruise?

 

 

Well, I don't want to eat in a cafeteria for dinner, but I certainly cruise for more than eating in the MDR. I cruise for the ports and the ability to see new, interesting places; and treat the ship as a floating hotel. The entertainment and food on the ship are secondary to me.