Ebola scare?

[Katgoesonholiday]

Read your trip insurance. I read mine and it doesn't cover cancellations due to pandemic, government advisory, nor to me choosing not to go because of fears.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Katgoesonholiday

[winddawn]

No!!!!! The Reston Strain is a "monkey only" strain of Ebola that infected a lab full on Crab monkeys in the facility in Reston VA.

 

This variant has an airborne infectious vectored, and if the a strain that infects human's shared this trait, the world would be in a very very scary place. What is most interesting is it looks under an electron microscope identical to the Zaire variant of the virus that has a 90% mortality rate. [i am not sure about the full genome comparison, but I read recently that it is not exactly the same on the genetic level.]

 

The strain that is currently active has a lower mortality rate, perhaps 60 to 70%. That is in a region with substandard medical facilities. In the West, the USA, I would expect the mortality rate to be far less.

 

I will also add that the "safe garment" regime in Dallas was most likely insufficient for full prophylactic protection. This is why the CDC is going to be sending teams to assist with post treatment decontamination procedure. It only takes on "oops", and even one you do not notice, to kill you.

Speaking of "oops," the second Texas nurse that was diagnosed with Ebola flew on a Frontier Airlines flight from Cleveland to Dallas while she had a fever on Monday. Scary stuff.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/15/health-ebola-usa-idUSL2N0SA0EY20141015

Edited October 15, 2014 by winddawn

[Captain Carnival]

Has anyone heard of any port changes or scares of Ebola or worried about Ebola on any of the Carnival Caribbean cruises?

 

No changes per se but in addition to the regular health questions when checking in regarding flu-like symptoms and pregnancy you will now be asked whether either you have been to or know someone who has in the last 21 days visited Nigeria, Guinne, or Sierra Leone.

[untailored bostonian]

Speaking of "oops," the second Texas nurse that was diagnosed with Ebola flew on a Frontier Airlines flight from Cleveland to Dallas while she had a fever on Monday. Scary stuff.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/15/health-ebola-usa-idUSL2N0SA0EY20141015

 

 

Yeah, and that was her bad, very bad. The only upside you can take away is how the virus affects the body. During the earliest stages the viral load in the body is low. This translates into you are less infectious. By the time you are dying the viral load has grown exponentially, and the risk of infection is extreme.

 

IMNHO, the Dallas hospital protective garb protocols were insufficient. The CDC appears to believe that even with the caregivers most conscientious efforts, they erred in the removal of the gear. As such, they are sending experience hot zone experts to observe and assist in this task.

 

To date there has not been an infection "in the wild" That is only individuals in contact with the dead patient have contracted Ebola. If Duncan's relatives, or the family contacts of these nurse become infected, that is still not a case in the wild. However if someone outside of that circle becomes infected, then that will be a breakout. This is why this nurses choice to fly home is so worthy of our concern.

Edited October 15, 2014 by untailored bostonian

[jetta8300]

Where did you get this misinformation about 200 doctors and nurses having died during this recent outbreak?

 

 

 

What will trip insurance do for you?

 

 

 

You do know that thousands die from flu each year? Actually tens of thousands just in the USA die of flu.

 

 

 

So, what is worse the flu or Ebola deaths?

 

 

It really bugs me when people say this. Yeah people die of the flu. Lots of them. But they are usually the elderly, or premature infants. This is not even close to comparing a disease that can strike someone down in the prime of their life, a very healthy individual. I can assure you that I, a 31 year old woman, will not be dying of the flu any time soon.

 

However this new Ebola patient spent six days in Tallmadge ohio between oct 8-13. And guess what. I'm from tallmadge. I was in her doctors office today when they told me they received a warning about her. (I'm a medical sales rep). I was on my way to my parents house in Tallmadge when I heard the news. I'm not sure exactly where she lives yet but someone in that family will possibly come down with it since she presented at the hospital the very next morning after her evening flight. And my parents and I would be in the buffet line with yall...

 

 

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[KPfromCT]

So, I am sure there are PLENTY of you that remember the movie, Outbreak.

Early 90's maybe?

Remember that scene in the beginning, in the movie theatre, when someone sneezed, and they showed the droplets spreading in slow motion?:eek:

 

Is this what you refer to you when you are saying this is not an "airborne" illness?

Meaning, if someone sneezes, and you walk through the "mist":eek::eek: you cannot contract it?

 

This whole outbreak just reminds me of that movie, and it was Ebola in the movie too!!! But it was the monkey that had it.

[elliair]

It really bugs me when people say this. Yeah people die of the flu. Lots of them. But they are usually the elderly, or premature infants. This is not even close to comparing a disease that can strike someone down in the prime of their life, a very healthy individual. I can assure you that I, a 31 year old woman, will not be dying of the flu any time soon.

 

However this new Ebola patient spent six days in Tallmadge ohio between oct 8-13. And guess what. I'm from tallmadge. I was in her doctors office today when they told me they received a warning about her. (I'm a medical sales rep). I was on my way to my parents house in Tallmadge when I heard the news. I'm not sure exactly whe

re she lives yet but someone in that family will possibly come down with it since she presented at the hospital the very next morning after her evening flight. And my parents and I would be in the buffet line with yall...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

I heard it here:

 

RUSH: I want to give you some numbers, some Ebola numbers. And I want to ask you if you've heard these numbers, if you've read about these numbers anywhere. As of today, as of now, more than 233 doctors and nurses have died from Ebola just this year. Did you know that? Have you seen that anywhere?

 

 

Two hundred and thirty-three doctors and nurses have died from Ebola just this year. That number, 233, includes highly trained doctors, such as the Medical Director of the two largest hospitals in Liberia. The number includes United Nations doctors. The number includes two healthcare workers from Doctors Without Borders teams. In other words, the number of people who have died in the healthcare industry, 233 out of the nearly 4,000 deaths, 233 from medical treatment professionals.

 

 

 

Now, I'm not trying to cause any trouble here, but I have a question. Did all of them violate protocol? Did every one of these health professionals violate some protocol from Dr. Frieden and the Centers for Disease Control. Or did they all violate protocols from the World Health Organization, or the United Nations? Did they? Because if they did, they either don't believe in the protocols or the protocols are comprised of incompetence. And if they didn't violate the protocols and yet still succumb to the disease, then what?

 

 

 

Two hundred and thirty-three this year. We're approaching over 8,000 cases. We're approaching 4,000 deaths. I saw on the tube this morning some, again, expert said that the newly calculated death rate in the current outbreak of Ebola in Africa is approaching 80 percent. The normal death rate is expressed as between 50 and 90 percent, and it's been right around 70. It's been upped now to 80 percent as of today.

 

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2014/10/14/i_m_waiting_to_be_called_an_ebolaphobe

 

 

 

And I believe him. Also google nurses and doctors that have died from Ebola this year. Plenty of news networks reporting it.

Edited October 15, 2014 by elliair

[untailored bostonian]

It really bugs me when people say this. Yeah people die of the flu. Lots of them. But they are usually the elderly, or premature infants. This is not even close to comparing a disease that can strike someone down in the prime of their life, a very healthy individual. I can assure you that I, a 31 year old woman, will not be dying of the flu any time soon.

 

However this new Ebola patient spent six days in Tallmadge ohio between oct 8-13. And guess what. I'm from tallmadge. I was in her doctors office today when they told me they received a warning about her. (I'm a medical sales rep). I was on my way to my parents house in Tallmadge when I heard the news. I'm not sure exactly where she lives yet but someone in that family will possibly come down with it since she presented at the hospital the very next morning after her evening flight. And my parents and I would be in the buffet line with yall...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

Your "usually" is a false statement. Yes elderly are more susceptible to respiratory effects, but the last major outbreak involved a stain that "elderly" had been exposed to but those younger, and not just children, were more impacted. The "premature infants" is indefensible. Children are more susceptible in general, but they are not just the "premature infants".

 

If you wish to say I am wrong on this, point me to a credible source for your defence. I will read it and get back to you.

 

Your surety of your invulnerability to the flu really depends of the strain and the mutations, but as a general "feel good" statement you are less vulnerable unless you have some other underlying conditions. Also the certainty that she spread the virus to her parents or fiancee, or any other local residents, or to anyone on the flight back to Dallas express an undue alarm. Since she may have had more intimate contact with the fiancee I think makes him more vulnerable.

 

She should never have flown home, and imnho all of the caregivers in Dallas should have been in a monitored program that kept them in place for 3 weeks. That said there still has not been an "in the wild" breakout of Ebola.

Edited October 15, 2014 by untailored bostonian

[untailored bostonian]

So, I am sure there are PLENTY of you that remember the movie, Outbreak.

Early 90's maybe?

Remember that scene in the beginning, in the movie theatre, when someone sneezed, and they showed the droplets spreading in slow motion?:eek:

 

Is this what you refer to you when you are saying this is not an "airborne" illness?

Meaning, if someone sneezes, and you walk through the "mist":eek::eek: you cannot contract it?

 

This whole outbreak just reminds me of that movie, and it was Ebola in the movie too!!! But it was the monkey that had it.

 

Respiratory, cold, symptoms are not an aspect of Ebola.

 

And for the record there is not an Ebola outbreak in America.

Edited October 15, 2014 by untailored bostonian

[untailored bostonian]

[...].

As for being prepared for ebola, they likely thought they were prepared, but then the real deal came. The news keeps repeating about the nurse breaching protocol. Breaching doesn't necessarily mean she skipped a step. Breaching could have been accidental. Saw the demonstration by Dr. Gupta, a specialist, and he wound up with 2 skin contacts (using chocolate syrup representing blood or fluid).

[...].

 

Exactly. I am afraid the "training" was like getting a lecture on riding a bike, then being surprised that the "learner" fell when he had to ride the bike.

[untailored bostonian]

Where did you get this misinformation about 200 doctors and nurses having died during this recent outbreak?

 

Change that to doctors and health care providers and I am sure it is well above 200, but they are all in the Hot Zone in Africa.

[untailored bostonian]

There are only four hospitals in the U.S. that offer level 4 biohazard isolation facilities. Four. With a total of 19 beds. Nineteen. Three each in Montana, Georgia, and Maryland, and ten in Nebraska. That's it.

 

The Dallas hospital erred in sending Mr. Duncan home after his first visit to the ER, but like all but four hospitals in the U.S., they were not prepared or equipped to deal with a level 4 biohazard.

 

And this is a problem that should get addressed NOW! I am sure that the Dallas nurses did not have level 4 garb and VERY limited experience with what they were told to use. Thus we have sick nurses.

[KPfromCT]

Respiratory, cold, symptoms are not an aspect of Ebola.

 

And for the record there is not an Ebola outbreak in America.

 

Your point/opinion comes across crystal clear!!!!

However, they say it's transferred through bodily fluids.

Is "snot" NOT a bodily fluid?

Do you work for the CDC?

[Badfinger]

Respiratory, cold, symptoms are not an aspect of Ebola.

 

And for the record there is not an Ebola outbreak in America.

 

There may not be a real outbreak but there is real concern. You cannot deny that. There's no question the cruise industry will take a hit, justified or not. Two months ago it was confined to a couple countries on the west coast of Africa. Now it is on three continents. The spread is exponential. Vacation how you wish.

[Becci]

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/qas.html?mobile=nocontent

 

From the CDCs website: How long does Ebola live outside the body?

Ebola is killed with hospital-grade disinfectants (such as household bleach). Ebola on dried on surfaces such as doorknobs and countertops can survive for several hours; however, virus in body fluids (such as blood) can survive up to several days at room temperature.

[moxie99]

Can you get Ebola on a plane?

 

 © Provided by Vox.com

 

Ever since a Liberian man got on a plane and traveled to the United States with the Ebola virus incubating in his body, there has been a lot of confusion about the risk of contracting the disease during travel.

 

So here's a refresher on how you can and can't get Ebola on a plane (or, for that matter, anywhere else):

 

Here are ways you could get Ebola on a plane:

 

1) You can get the Ebola virus if you have "direct contact" with the bodily fluids of a sick person, including blood, saliva, breast milk, stool, sweat, semen, tears, vomit, and urine. "Direct contact" means these fluids need to get into your broken skin (such as a wound) or touch your mucous membranes (mouth, nose, eyes, vagina).

 

2) So you could get Ebola on a plane by kissing or sharing food with someone showing symptoms of Ebola. You could get it if that symptomatic person happens to bleed or vomit on you during flight, and those viral fluids hit your mouth or eyes. You could also get it if you happen to be seated next to a sick individual, who is sweating profusely, and you touch that virulent sweat to your face. At least this last scenario is unlikely, however. One of the Ebola discoverers, Peter Piot, said, "I wouldn't be worried to sit next to someone with Ebola virus on the Tube as long as they don't vomit on you or something. This is an infection that requires very close contact."

 

 

The Ebola virus has been able to Live in semen for up to 82 days

3) You can get Ebola through sex with an Ebola patient. So you could get Ebola on a plane if you join the Mile High Club with an Ebola-infected individual. The virus has been able to live in semen up to 82 days after a patient became symptomatic, which means sexual transmission — even with someone who has survived the disease for months — is possible.

 

4) You can get Ebola through contact with an infected surface. Though Ebola is easily killed with disinfectants like bleach, if it isn't caught, it can live outside the body on, say, an arm rest or table. In bodily fluids, like blood, the virus can survive for several days. So if someone with infectious Ebola gets his or her diseased bodily fluids on a surface that you touch — an airplane seat, for example — and then you put your hands in your mouth and eyes, you could get Ebola on an airplane.

 

5) This is a very unlikely situation, but: you can get the virus by eating wild animals infected with Ebola or coming into contact with their bodily fluids — on a plane. The fruit bat is believed to be the animal reservoir for Ebola, and when it's prepared for a meal or eaten raw, people get sick. So you could get Ebola in flight by bringing some under-cooked bat meat onto the aircraft and having it for supper.

 

Here are ways you can't get Ebola on a plane:

 

1) You can't get Ebola from someone who is not already sick and showing symptoms. The virus only turns up in people's bodily fluids after a person starts to feel ill, and only then can they spread it to another person. So if you were sitting on a plane next to someone who had Ebola but wasn't yet showing symptoms or infectious, you would not get Ebola.

 

 

Ebola isn't easy to transmit.

2) It's very rare to transmit Ebola through coughing or sneezing. The virus isn't airborne, thankfully, and experts expect that it will never become airborne because viruses don't change the way they are transmitted.

Still, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

offered this cautionary note: "If a symptomatic patient with Ebola coughs or sneezes on someone, and saliva or mucus come into contact with that person's eyes, nose or mouth, these fluids may transmit the disease." This happens rarely and usually only affects health workers or those caring for the sick.

 

So the possibility of transmission on a plane by coughing or sneezing exists — but it is small. It would have to go something like this: An Ebola patient would have to cough on the hand of the person sitting next to them, releasing some amount of mucus or saliva. The person being coughed on would then have to (say) rub his or her eye with that hand, allowing the disease into the body.

 

 

The bottom line: Ebola is difficult, but not impossible, to catch even in confined spaces like planes

 

Ebola isn't easy to transmit. The scenarios under which Ebola spreads are very specific. As the World Health Organization — which does not recommend travel bans — put it, "On the small chance that someone on the plane is sick with Ebola, the likelihood of other passengers and crew having contact with their body fluids is even smaller." They also point out that people who are sick with Ebola "are so unwell that they cannot travel."

 

Ebola doesn't spread quickly, either. An Ebola victim usually only infects one or two other people. Compare that with HIV, which creates four secondary infections, or measles with 17.

 

So far, there have been three known Ebola cases originating in the US. There are upwards of 8,000 in West Africa. That's where experts say the worry and fear about Ebola contagion should be placed.

[elliair]

Change that to doctors and health care providers and I am sure it is well above 200, but they are all in the Hot Zone in Africa.

 

If they don't want to believe what Rush said, here's probably where he got his info:

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/dandiamond/2014/10/15/ebola-has-already-killed-more-than-200-doctors-nurses-and-other-healthcare-workers/

 

I know people here don't want to read about it or accept these facts, but I'll do what I can to protect myself and husband. It may not be out of control here (yet), but I do expect it to if we don't do something to stop people from coming into this country from those countries affected. The second nurse infected moved around freely - that in itself tells me no PTB in the government medical field (NIH and CDC), are really taking this seriously. They are only giving lip service and blaming the workers for not following protocols that aren't even there.

[MMastell]

From the New York Times:

 

"Frontier Airlines said in a statement that the aircraft “received a thorough cleaning per our normal procedures,” which the airline said were consistent with C.D.C. guidelines, on Monday night at Dallas-Fort Worth and that it was then cleaned again Tuesday night in Cleveland."

 

If that's the case then I would be worried if I had taken that plane from Dallas to Cleveland the next morning. I know how "well" those planes are cleaned and it isn't very thorough.

 

I agree that screening needs to be set up at all International airports in the U.S. and no one is admitted to the U.S. who has been in the Hot Zone within the last 21 days. People coming into the U.S. can have their passports checked to see if they went from West Africa via Germany or other country before entering the U.S.

 

Three months of vigilance will stop this. Three months of business as usual will cause an epidemic.

 

Take care,

Mike

[13607]

Has anyone heard of any port changes or scares of Ebola or worried about Ebola on any of the Carnival Caribbean cruises?

 

No;)

[Tampa8]

After reading here for years I finally joined.

Comparing Ebola to the flu is fooling yourself. Your chances of dying from the flu, even elders is very slim. From Ebola extremely high. We are going on our 8th cruise in November this time on Carnival. I admit we are somewhat worried, more as time goes by, but mostly because people are not acting responsibly.

The reporter who was told to stay in her house put people at risk by leaving it. The 2nd Nurse who now has Ebola went against what they were told about traveling and flew, now endangering all on that flight, at the airport, and if anyone does get it, whoever they come in contact with after getting it.

 

I have no doubt some people who know they are at risk will continue to ignore what they are being told and travel, and no doubt someone at sometime will get on a cruise ship. It may or may not be someone from this Country.

However, the same can be said for any form of travel, staying in hotels etc... So I guess it comes down to not traveling at all, keep contact with people at a minimum, or continue as in the past until there is actual reasons not to travel or cruise not just possibilities of why not to.

 

It is a very good sign that the incubation period is almost over and no one in the family of the person from Africa who died has become ill. It is scary but more understandable that a caregiver would get it. The only question is how and hopefully because they came in direct contact somehow as that would explain it.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Tampa8

[elliair]

Frontier Airlines is working closely with the CDC to identify and notify all passengers on the flight. The airline also says the plane has been thoroughly cleaned and was removed from service following CDC notification early Wednesday morning.

 

 

However, according to Flig*******er, the plane was used for five additional flights on Tuesday before it was removed from service. Those flights include a return flight to Cleveland, Cleveland to Fort Lauderdale–Hollywood International Airport (FLL), FLL to Cleveland, Cleveland to Hartsfield–Jackson Atlanta International Airport (ATL), and ATL to Cleveland.:eek:

 

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2014/10/15/ebola-patient-traveled-day-before-diagnosis/

Edited October 16, 2014 by elliair

[rass2008]

This is all stressful being an outsider.

 

What I am curious about is who is NOT going to fly & cruise this next month because of it.

[Seago2]

This is all stressful being an outsider.

 

What I am curious about is who is NOT going to fly & cruise this next month because of it.

 

Just canceled my January cruise.

[Tampa8]

We are having that conversation, to go or not. As I alluded to above, to me it can always be something that make you worry about traveling.

 

 

A report on Public Radio just talked about this link, and talked about Caribbean Islands possibly taking strong measures as to who can enter.

 

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CB_ST_LUCIA_EBOLA_TRAVEL_BAN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-10-15-16-40-51

[untailored bostonian]

After reading here for years I finally joined.

Comparing Ebola to the flu is fooling yourself. Your chances of dying from the flu, even elders is very slim. From Ebola extremely high. We are going on our 8th cruise in November this time on Carnival. I admit we are somewhat worried, more as time goes by, but mostly because people are not acting responsibly.

The reporter who was told to stay in her house put people at risk by leaving it. The 2nd Nurse who now has Ebola went against what they were told about traveling and flew, now endangering all on that flight, at the airport, and if anyone does get it, whoever they come in contact with after getting it.

 

I have no doubt some people who know they are at risk will continue to ignore what they are being told and travel, and no doubt someone at sometime will get on a cruise ship. It may or may not be someone from this Country.

However, the same can be said for any form of travel, staying in hotels etc... So I guess it comes down to not traveling at all, keep contact with people at a minimum, or continue as in the past until there is actual reasons not to travel or cruise not just possibilities of why not to.

 

It is a very good sign that the incubation period is almost over and no one in the family of the person from Africa who died has become ill. It is scary but more understandable that a caregiver would get it. The only question is how and hopefully because they came in direct contact somehow as that would explain it.

 

I am a virus geek. After trying to explain this virus, tonight I am mad and concerned.

 

The accounts of the LACK of protection for the nurses in Dallas is more than I can believe. If true, expect more cases within that group. What is wrong with the CDC?