Ebola scare?

[poolreader]

When I was teaching I did an activity with the students when Flu season started. In the morning I would ask for four volunteers. I would go to those students desks and ask them to pretend to sneeze, by saying achoo. I had a salt shaker with corn starch I would then sprinkle on their hands. I asked each student to do what they normally would do after sneezing. Some rubbed it on their clothes, some on the desk, others on a paper from their desk.

I reminded each student to wash their hands at recess. By the end of the day the white powder was everywhere, even on the faces of those who did not receive the sprinkle. It showed the students how quickly illness is spread.

The point is that even when you are aware of the hazard it is hard to avoid.

[untailored bostonian]

Just canceled my January cruise.

 

That is a mistake. If you think that Ebola is going to be a cruiseship issue, you should start buying prepper dehydrated foods and finding an isolated bug out cabin in Wyoming.

[Tampa8]

So, I am sure there are PLENTY of you that remember the movie, Outbreak.

Early 90's maybe?

Remember that scene in the beginning, in the movie theatre, when someone sneezed, and they showed the droplets spreading in slow motion?:eek:

 

Is this what you refer to you when you are saying this is not an "airborne" illness?

Meaning, if someone sneezes, and you walk through the "mist":eek::eek: you cannot contract it?

 

This whole outbreak just reminds me of that movie, and it was Ebola in the movie too!!! But it was the monkey that had it.

 

Qualified answer, yes you can get Ebola that way. But not because it is airborne, just breathing in a confined space won't infect you. However should the mist get into your eyes or mouth you can become infected.

[untailored bostonian]

There may not be a real outbreak but there is real concern. You cannot deny that. There's no question the cruise industry will take a hit, justified or not. Two months ago it was confined to a couple countries on the west coast of Africa. Now it is on three continents. The spread is exponential. Vacation how you wish.

 

To say that it is on three continents is disingenuous. It is still confined to a few countries in western Atlantic.

 

Actually there has been a second, more contained outbreak of a different strain in the Congo, but then alarmist do not follow the facts. What do you know about Marburg outbreak in Uganda? Or what do you know about MERS?

 

The spread is not exponential any place other than Liberia. Unless the Western nations become committed to controlling the spread of Ebola there millions will die.

[Katgoesonholiday]

Qualified answer, yes you can get Ebola that way. But not because it is airborne, just breathing in a confined space won't infect you. However should the mist get into your eyes or mouth you can become infected.

 

There is an excellent article which explains this very clearly - http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2014/10/13/read-this-to-get-a-better-understanding-of-how-ebola-spreads/

[Tampa8]

There is an excellent article which explains this very clearly - http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2014/10/13/read-this-to-get-a-better-understanding-of-how-ebola-spreads/

 

Yes, good explanation, much expanded on my answer, and highlights you don't get it simply by breathing, but it has to be from direct contact with fluids from an infected person, which does include sneezing and it reaching into your eyes or mouth for instance.

[untailored bostonian]

Your point/opinion comes across crystal clear!!!!

However, they say it's transferred through bodily fluids.

Is "snot" NOT a bodily fluid?

Do you work for the CDC?

 

No I am a virus geek.

 

If you are a caregiver of a patient in the "burn out" stage of the disease, and you come in contact with their "snot" while unprotected I would call you dead. However in the early stages of Ebola coughing and mucus discharges are not common symptoms. I have made the point before that effectively the sick person has to get it into your eyes, mouth or onto your skin and an open wound. In the early stages aches, pain, headaches, and very high fever are the symptoms. Later the vomiting and dysentery are the contagious vectors. If you sat next to an Ebola sick individual on a plane at the early stages, you are not likely to become infected

[Cruising4]

Thanks to all those with medical knowledge who have replied.

 

One question - does hand sanitizer (sp?) like Purell or triclosan kill ebola on surfaces? Or is it bleach only?

 

I really dislike all the quick sanitizers I see handing from purses, etc. Too many chemicals and I firmly believe with regular use they compromise our immune systems. (BTW, I have absolutely no actual data or experience that they compromise immunity. It's my gut feeling.)

 

Nevertheless, I did purchase cancel for any reason insurance for our trip in February. Ebola, ISIS. Sometimes I wish I never had to leave my house. But I do, everyday!

 

What harm could come from "leisure travel" ban from the affected countries? What would stop someone from popping a few tylenols enroute to the US and our healthcare system?

 

God bless those who are on the front lines. I've always admired what nurses do, but even more so now. Doctors without borders, wow, what amazing people!

[Tampa8]

Anyone who thought this wasn't big deal for the Caribbean or that cruises won't be affected, just in the last day it appears there are more and more concerns. What I posted above, and now this;

http://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2014/10/14/general-island-vacation-season-spawns-ebola-fears

"leaders from the Caribbean and Central American countries are voicing concerns because many vacationers will be traveling to and from the islands, often without going through airport screenings the U.S. is putting in place."

 

Again, Public Radio discussed that some Islands are going to be very vigilant in who can enter, I have to assume that means from Cruise ships as well as via air.

 

This can all be taken as a positive however, the more areas like the Caribbean take it seriously the better chance an outbreak can be prevented or contained.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Tampa8

[untailored bostonian]

Originally Posted by Katgoesonholiday View Post

There is an excellent article which explains this very clearly - http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debat...ebola-spreads/

 

Yes, good explanation, much expanded on my answer, and highlights you don't get it simply by breathing, but it has to be from direct contact with fluids from an infected person, which does include sneezing and it reaching into your eyes or mouth for instance.

 

From that article...

When someone coughs, sneezes or, in the case of Ebola, vomits, he releases a spray of secretions into the air. This makes the infection droplet-borne. Some hospital procedures, like placing a breathing tube down a patient’s air passage to help him breathe, may do the same thing.

 

Droplet-borne germs can travel in these secretions to infect someone a few feet away, often through the eyes, nose or mouth. This may not seem like an important difference, but it has a big impact on how easily a germ spreads. Airborne diseases are far more transmittable than droplet-borne ones.

 

Please note the wording and the meaning of "... in the case of Ebola, vomits ..."

[untailored bostonian]

Thanks to all those with medical knowledge who have replied.

 

One question - does hand sanitizer (sp?) like Purell or triclosan kill ebola on surfaces? Or is it bleach only?

 

I really dislike all the quick sanitizers I see handing from purses, etc. Too many chemicals and I firmly believe with regular use they compromise our immune systems. (BTW, I have absolutely no actual data or experience that they compromise immunity. It's my gut feeling.)

 

Nevertheless, I did purchase cancel for any reason insurance for our trip in February. Ebola, ISIS. Sometimes I wish I never had to leave my house. But I do, everyday!

 

What harm could come from "leisure travel" ban from the affected countries? What would stop someone from popping a few tylenols enroute to the US and our healthcare system?

 

God bless those who are on the front lines. I've always admired what nurses do, but even more so now. Doctors without borders, wow, what amazing people!

 

Washing your hands with soap would be effective in most cases. I am not sure about alcohol base hand sanitizer, but my guess is yes. As of now, and I cruise in 3 weeks, I am far more concerned about Norovirus. I also have 100% deet to protect myself from the mosquito vectored viruses in the Caribbean.

 

Ebola does not worry me today. That may change if the CDC and DC do not get real protective, level 4 pathogen, gear to the hospitals.

[Tampa8]

Thanks to all those with medical knowledge who have replied.

 

One question - does hand sanitizer (sp?) like Purell or triclosan kill ebola on surfaces? Or is it bleach only?....

 

 

Generally Hand Sanitizer kills bacteria (Germs), not viruses, so they can not kill it. I do believe there are some labeled that can kill viruses. I do not know how effective they are. I believe Purell Advanced is labeled to help kill viruses.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Tampa8

[Badfinger]

To say that it is on three continents is disingenuous. It is still confined to a few countries in western Atlantic.

 

Actually there has been a second, more contained outbreak of a different strain in the Congo, but then alarmist do not follow the facts. What do you know about Marburg outbreak in Uganda? Or what do you know about MERS?

 

The spread is not exponential any place other than Liberia. Unless the Western nations become committed to controlling the spread of Ebola there millions will die.

 

Seems to me Dallas is in North America and Spain is in Europe. Now add Africa and that makes three...unless you can point out any math error I made. And btw, there were 2 cases in Africa before there were 8000. And we have had two cases in Dallas. And one of them was flying while symptomatic. Yeah your right....nothing to worry about here (insert sarcasm).

Edited October 16, 2014 by Badfinger

[Tampa8]

While I agree with you, however it is happening Ebola is getting to at least three continents. However two cases as you say in Africa is not the same as two cases in the U.S. Even with some mistakes being made, we are a gadzillion light years ahead in containing something like this. Partly this is because of their belief system there, not believing their government, and widely not agreeing to be quarantined not just one or two people. Add to that a vastly different and inferior health system. If we don't take it very seriously it could spread here of course, which is why I think the news reporter and possibly 2nd nurse who did not do what they were asked should face some kind of punishment.

 

What if that Nurse went on a cruise instead of flight?

Edited October 16, 2014 by Tampa8

[Badfinger]

While I agree with you, however it is happening Ebola is getting to at least three continents. However two cases as you say in Africa is not the same as two cases in the U.S. Even with some mistakes being made, we are a gadzillion light years ahead in containing something like this. Partly this is because of their belief system there, not believing their government, and widely not agreeing to be quarantined not just one or two people. Add to that a vastly different and inferior health system. If we don't take it very seriously it could spread here of course, which is why I think the news reporter and possibly 2nd nurse who did not do what they were asked should face some kind of punishment.

 

What if that Nurse went on a cruise instead of flight?

 

That would be bad IMO.

 

And since we are playing hypotheticals, would you go on a cruise is you knew one of the other passengers or crew had ebola? You don't have to answer because I know the answer.

 

What we have that could make it much worse than in Africa is a very mobile and congregating population via airplanes, buses, subways, large high schools, mega churches, huge sporting events, etc. Heck when I use to travel for work, it was not uncommon for me to be on 5-6 flights through 4-5 major airports covering 3-4 states in four days. I doubt most Africans in the effected countries travel that much in a year.

[untailored bostonian]

Seems to me Dallas is in North America and Spain is in Europe. Now add Africa and that makes three...unless you can point out any math error I made. And btw, there were 2 cases in Africa before there were 8000. And we have had two cases in Dallas. And one of them was flying while symptomatic. Yeah your right....nothing to worry about here (insert sarcasm).

 

But they are not outbreaks. There has not been one case of Ebola in the wild anyplace other than the African nations. This is why saying that it is in 3 continents is a lie. Yes a Liberian traveled to the USA. Yes, two nurses have been infected. It is a misappropriation of language to say that it in North America.

 

If and when a case occurs in someone other than a healthcare worker who worked directly with Mr. Duncan, or even to one of his family members or the nurses family members your point is disingenuous, dishonest.

 

Again you lie when you say " one of them was flying while symptomatic". He was infected but not symptomatic. The selfindelgent tomfoolery nature of your "first there were 2" comment calls into question your capacity to understand these issue. No sarcasm intended.

[rass2008]

So at least one has cancelled, but what about those who are leaving in the next two weeks?? what is the consensus, I would think a lot of travel insurance will be declining cancelling for this reason?

[Badfinger]

But they are not outbreaks. There has not been one case of Ebola in the wild anyplace other than the African nations. This is why saying that it is in 3 continents is a lie. Yes a Liberian traveled to the USA. Yes, two nurses have been infected. It is a misappropriation of language to say that it in North America.

 

If and when a case occurs in someone other than a healthcare worker who worked directly with Mr. Duncan, or even to one of his family members or the nurses family members your point is disingenuous, dishonest.

 

Again you lie when you say " one of them was flying while symptomatic". He was infected but not symptomatic. The selfindelgent tomfoolery nature of your "first there were 2" comment calls into question your capacity to understand these issue. No sarcasm intended.

 

Thanks for calling me a liar.

 

I will just say you are wrong. Fever is a symptom.

 

Read this:

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-second-ebola-patient-20141015-story.html#page=2

 

Personally I am not to confident in the CDC guidelines of 99.5* vs 100.4* or whatever. Heck they could not even get the gloves right in Dallas. Fever is a symptom. She had a fever. That is my takeaway.

 

And frankly I don't care about Ebola in the wild. I care about it in the hospital, at the store, in my work place, on the school bus and on a cruise ship. I don't think it really matters were the virus originated once it starts spreading. 50% fatal is 50% fatal. I checked that math too!

Edited October 16, 2014 by Badfinger

[elliair]

So at least one has cancelled, but what about those who are leaving in the next two weeks?? what is the consensus, I would think a lot of travel insurance will be declining cancelling for this reason?

 

I'm not cancelling my up coming cruise--unless there's a conference of Ebola regions of Africans on the cruise. That would be a game changer for me.:eek:

[cruiseelady]

Just canceled my January cruise.

 

Totally understandable, I am thinking of cancelling my cruise as well, I am supposed to be going in November.

[luvtheships]

Final payment is due on Monday. I read the refund guidelines and it looks to me that if I cancel within a certain timeframe after that all I lose is deposit

 

Then it progresses from there

 

I only paid around 1700 not including the port and taxes (which always come back if you cancel anyway ) in total for the 3 of us and have insurance which I doubt would cover anything should we chicken out

 

So do I risk $1700 at most

 

By January things will either calm down or have gone crazy

 

I remember a woman I knew who promptly cancelled her no fly to cruise for February 2002 on September 12 2001. They cruise was for their silver anniversary

 

She was dead a year later

 

My cruise includes taking my 2 college kids and leaving dh home with the others.

 

Cruising with 4000 for 12 days is much much different than 99% of the things we do and the people we interact with everyday

 

Decisions decisions. I think I will not pay a few days early like I do usually and wait until the actual due date as things are changing day to day minute to minute

 

 

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[Orison]

I'm not making any decisions till I hear it has boarded any of the ships. Once it hits one, cruising is shelved for me till this passes. Unfortunately, I hope the information regarding such is forthcoming and not suppressed.

[winddawn]

Yeah, and that was her bad, very bad. The only upside you can take away is how the virus affects the body. During the earliest stages the viral load in the body is low. This translates into you are less infectious. By the time you are dying the viral load has grown exponentially, and the risk of infection is extreme.

 

IMNHO, the Dallas hospital protective garb protocols were insufficient. The CDC appears to believe that even with the caregivers most conscientious efforts, they erred in the removal of the gear. As such, they are sending experience hot zone experts to observe and assist in this task.

 

To date there has not been an infection "in the wild" That is only individuals in contact with the dead patient have contracted Ebola. If Duncan's relatives, or the family contacts of these nurse become infected, that is still not a case in the wild. However if someone outside of that circle becomes infected, then that will be a breakout. This is why this nurses choice to fly home is so worthy of our concern.

I totally agree that it was a very bad decision, and is even more disturbing because they are saying the CDC gave that second nurse permission to fly even though she told them she was running a low-grade fever.

 

It will be interesting to see whether they change the protocol within the hospitals when treating Ebola patients. In my experience working around infection control in hospitals, the negative pressure rooms are appropriate in such cases. There certainly are differences in the types of precautions used based on the type of infection involved.

Edited October 16, 2014 by winddawn

[untailored bostonian]

I totally agree that it was a very bad decision, and is even more disturbing because they are saying the CDC gave that second nurse permission to fly even though she told them she was running a low-grade fever.

 

It will be interesting to see whether they change the protocol within the hospitals when treating Ebola patients. In my experience working around infection control in hospitals, the negative pressure rooms are appropriate in such cases. There certainly are differences in the types of precautions used based on the type of infection involved.

 

I am very angry at the CDC about these lapses. Mostly I am mad at the lack of protective gear for the caregivers for 2 days, 2 days I have no doubt Duncan was very, very contagious. If these two nurses are the only two to get Ebola I will be surprised.

 

Still, there has been no breakout case, and we will now have to be lucky to avoid one.

[kwazi07]

As long as the two nurses who are infected either fight off the virus or die,and no one else gets infected from treating them, and no one with Ebola enters the US, everything will be fine.

 

I really don't understand why people are canceling their cruises. There is a similar thread on the Royal boards and they are discussing canceling too. My next cruise is in 2016, so we will see how things go.

 

I will not give up my hump balcony until Ebola poses a real threat to cruises! :)