Carnival Ship to be Built in China???

[cjknox]

There is a potential three way partnership between Carnival Corporation, Italy's Fincantieri, and China State Shipbuilding Corporation. We may be seeing a major cruise ship being built in China within the next decade by a brand in the Carnival Group. How do you feel about this?

 

 

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/carnival-corporation-and-largest-chinese-shipyard-sign-memo-of-understanding-aimed-at-growing-the-cruise-industry-in-china-2014-10-14

[andy.capitan]

There is a potential three way partnership between Carnival Corporation, Italy's Fincantieri, and China State Shipbuilding Corporation. We may be seeing a major cruise ship being built in China within the next decade by a brand in the Carnival Group. How do you feel about this?

 

 

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/carnival-corporation-and-largest-chinese-shipyard-sign-memo-of-understanding-aimed-at-growing-the-cruise-industry-in-china-2014-10-14

 

I expect it to become a requirement for any cruise company wanting to continue to do business in China.

[n6uqqq]

Will it be painted with lead based paint:rolleyes:?

[ATHENA3]

Sooner or later it’s going to happen….$$$$

[chengkp75]

Given that China has cabotage laws just like the US's Jones Act and PVSA, it was probably only a matter of time before they flexed them and required the ships be built in China.

 

Having worked on ships that had significant amounts of machinery built under license in China (slow speed diesel main engines for example), I worry about the quality of these ships, even considering the partnership includes Fincantieri.

 

Given that China has their own classification society, while better acknowledged around the world than the older Soviet class society, I'm dubious about whether this is much more than another flag of convenience.

[TX_Atlantis_Cruiser]

My concern would be about the quality of the materials used in building the ship. In the US chemical industry, some companies a while back prohibited the use of Chinese valves in pipelines due to the inferior quality of the metals and components and the associated high failure rates. A ship made with inferior quality steel with more impurities or imperfections than are allowed in the US or Europe could be courting some trouble.

[DirtyDawg]

I wouldn't be worrying too, too much about it. There are lots of joint ventures between Western and Chinese companies that build products to world standards. The issue will be does Fincantieri and Carnival have the experience/expertise to manage this type of JV.

 

Like new car models I might be waiting for the 'second year' model to be sailing on these new ships.;)

[SeaPeaInn]

My understanding from the business news is that this ship will operate as a China based cruisline with Carnival assisting in construction and operation.

[Tonka's Skipper]

Given that China has cabotage laws just like the US's Jones Act and PVSA, it was probably only a matter of time before they flexed them and required the ships be built in China.

 

Having worked on ships that had significant amounts of machinery built under license in China (slow speed diesel main engines for example), I worry about the quality of these ships, even considering the partnership includes Fincantieri.

 

Given that China has their own classification society, while better acknowledged around the world than the older Soviet class society, I'm dubious about whether this is much more than another flag of convenience.

 

 

 

Chief you are totally correct. CHINA built vessels have a very poor reputation for quality and life span. The Chinese bulk carriers I deal with are known to basically be having major problems at 50% of the life span.

 

Yes they are cheaper, but cheaper is not a good thing with your family onboard.

 

AKK

[jimbo5544]

Very interesting post, thanks! I will be interested to see how this all works out. I thought there may have been something up when even Uncle Micky showed up for those meetings. Very interesting. As with most things in the business world, you can follow the money.

[chengkp75]

Chief you are totally correct. CHINA built vessels have a very poor reputation for quality and life span. The Chinese bulk carriers I deal with are known to basically be having major problems at 50% of the life span.

 

Yes they are cheaper' date=' but cheaper is not a good thing with your family onboard.

 

AKK[/quote']

 

My company has a class of 12 tankers with MAN slow speed diesels. The first three were fitted with engines built at the Dahlien shipyard in China, while the rest were fitted with engines built at Hyundai in Korea. As you know, engines built under license must be built to MAN's specifications, so the engines must be similar. However, we already, after only 5 years life on the Dahlien engines have seen more significant maintenance issues than with the Korean engines.

 

We are also part of a project in the Gulf of Mexico where our tanker shuttles to an offshore production ship, producing crude from ultra-deep water. Part of their flowlines from the undersea wellheads to the FPSO were tethered using Chinese manufactured anchor chain and shackles. One of these shackles failed causing a flowline to collapse to the sea bed (fortunately before any oil was in it). Subsequent forensics showed that the material was flawed, and the testing done by the manufacturer and the Chinese class society was not done properly.

[Tonka's Skipper]

My company has a class of 12 tankers with MAN slow speed diesels. The first three were fitted with engines built at the Dahlien shipyard in China, while the rest were fitted with engines built at Hyundai in Korea. As you know, engines built under license must be built to MAN's specifications, so the engines must be similar. However, we already, after only 5 years life on the Dahlien engines have seen more significant maintenance issues than with the Korean engines.

 

We are also part of a project in the Gulf of Mexico where our tanker shuttles to an offshore production ship, producing crude from ultra-deep water. Part of their flowlines from the undersea wellheads to the FPSO were tethered using Chinese manufactured anchor chain and shackles. One of these shackles failed causing a flowline to collapse to the sea bed (fortunately before any oil was in it). Subsequent forensics showed that the material was flawed, and the testing done by the manufacturer and the Chinese class society was not done properly.

 

 

I am not surprised at all Chief, the Chinese are known to steal others technology and then make cheap knock OFFS.

 

Crew after crew, when they have problems with Chinese built vessels always shake their heads and say *Chinese built....cheap*.

 

AKK

[andy.capitan]

The fact is China is a sovereign nation and can make whatever rules they want. If you want to play in their sandbox, you have to follow them. The US does the same.

 

No need to steal technology - we outsource enough to them. Nothing new there.

 

There are Japanese vehicles sold in America with more US content than some "American" vehicles.

 

It's a global economy.

[chengkp75]

The fact is China is a sovereign nation and can make whatever rules they want. If you want to play in their sandbox, you have to follow them. The US does the same.

 

No need to steal technology - we outsource enough to them. Nothing new there.

 

There are Japanese vehicles sold in America with more US content than some "American" vehicles.

 

It's a global economy.

 

Yes, but this should be a case of "buyer beware". Not sure that with a Chinese built, Chinese classified, Chinese registered, Chinese crewed, and Chinese inspected for SOLAS ship that I would ever cruise in China. All the more cabins for you, Sarge.

[Tonka's Skipper]

The fact is China is a sovereign nation and can make whatever rules they want. If you want to play in their sandbox, you have to follow them. The US does the same.

 

No need to steal technology - we outsource enough to them. Nothing new there.

 

There are Japanese vehicles sold in America with more US content than some "American" vehicles.

 

It's a global economy.

 

 

All true, except they do steal the technology and make cheap knocks offs. As I said before, *cheap* is not good on a ship with your family onboard.

 

The world economy is not the point. China is not the whole far east. Their sand box does not extend over the whole far east and I don't see the USA requiring cruise ships to be build in the USA to carry passengers on cruises that start and end in the same USA ports.

 

Its a old story about China stealing technology and one of the reasons so many companies are leaving China are returning to the USA or other countries.

 

AKK

[andy.capitan]

Yes, but this should be a case of "buyer beware". Not sure that with a Chinese built, Chinese classified, Chinese registered, Chinese crewed, and Chinese inspected for SOLAS ship that I would ever cruise in China. All the more cabins for you, Sarge.

 

Cruise lines looking to do business in China are not primarily looking to market to US. Alarmist tactics have no effect.

[andy.capitan]

All true' date=' except they do steal the technology and make cheap knocks offs. As I said before, *cheap* is not good on a ship with your family onboard.

 

The world economy is not the point. China is not the whole far east. Their sand box does not extend over the whole far east and I don't see the USA requiring cruise ships to be build in the USA to carry passengers on cruises that start and end in the same USA ports.

 

Its a old story about China stealing technology and one of the reasons so many companies are leaving China are returning to the USA or other countries.

 

AKK[/quote']

 

Lots of countries steal technology. Cheap knockoffs? Yes, the US labor force has priced itself out of the market.

 

If they want US flags on ships hey need to be built in the US.

 

No, China is not the whole far East - just a billion or so people and it is foolish to ignore all those potential consumers.

 

To other countries is more likely.

[Cruising89143]

http://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/11743-carnival-corp-looking-to-start-entry-level-chinese-cruise-line.html

 

Other rumors

http://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/11741-overheard-in-tianjin-tuesday-ctrip-yards-and-more.html

Edited October 15, 2014 by cruisingator2

[Tonka's Skipper]

Lots of countries steal technology. Cheap knockoffs? Yes, the US labor force has priced itself out of the market.

 

If they want US flags on ships hey need to be built in the US.

 

No, China is not the whole far East - just a billion or so people and it is foolish to ignore all those potential consumers.

 

To other countries is more likely.

 

Am I correct n reading that your saying its OK for China to build cheaper vessels and knock off and its OK for Carnival to buy them and your willing to bring your family and sail on the cheap knock off vessels?

 

What if those vessels were brought to the US or European markets?

 

As to US labor you will find if you check it out, that the US costs was fast getting on per with western Europe. I look forward to the day when we can sail on US built cruise ships.

 

I would point out that there is only a small percentage of the Chinese population that can afford cruises........

 

 

Frankly I am more interested in quality vessels, more then saving a few dollars on a cruise with cheaply build and equipped vessels

 

AKK

Edited October 15, 2014 by Tonka's Skipper

[topguy]

I bet Walmart has something to do with this. :)

 

The main problem with a Chinese made ship is that once you sail on it, a week later you are hungry to sail again.

[crazyfrazee]

Please don't misunderstand me on this but remember the sheetrock that US builders were using here? Some kind of chemical was being released and it was corroding the wiring in the electrical systems as well as the electronics (TV, washers/dryers etc). It was Chinese sheetrock and entire houses had to be rebuilt. I doubt ships have sheetrock but what ever materials they use in building the ship could have some kind of effect on people or their electronics. They just don't have the same enforcements we do here. My business would not survive without the Chinese. They do very well 1/2 the time. I can order 2 pieces of equipment from them that are supposed to be the same but the quality on one far exceeds the other. I wouldn't trust something as big as a ship.

[DirtyDawg]

http://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/11743-carnival-corp-looking-to-start-entry-level-chinese-cruise-line.html

 

Other rumors

http://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/11741-overheard-in-tianjin-tuesday-ctrip-yards-and-more.html

 

Interesting. Thanks.

 

The move into the Chinese cruise market makes perfect sense for Carnival. The market is growing, the average Chinese consumer is getting wealthier, and there are billions of consumers! Just like the Auto market in China which is growing at a rapid pace it be foolish for a world class company in either industry to ignore China's growing consumer spending potential.

 

Will the cruise ships made in China for the Chinese market be really 'world-class'? Who knows - perhaps not? But if the cruise lines what to build in China for the World Market those ships will need to be comparable. I remember the angst when the Europeans began Airbus, could they build a product that could compete with Boeing? Now, when you fly a U.S. airline do you even check out where the plane you fly in is made, U.S., Europe, Canada, Brazil?

[DirtyDawg]

I bet Walmart has something to do with this. :)

 

Or Maybe it's Apple!;)

 

The main problem with a Chinese made ship is that once you sail on it, a week later you are hungry to sail again.

 

That might be the best argument TO build in China!:D!

[guxu]

I would point out that there is only a small percentage of the Chinese population that can afford cruises........

But even a small percentage of the Chinese population turns out to be a large number of people with lots of money. Carnival moved its COO to China. Certainly Carnival is not stupid.

[cjknox]

But even a small percentage of the Chinese population turns out to be a large number of people with lots of money. Carnival moved its COO to China. Certainly Carnival is not stupid.

 

I totally agree with this analysis, this ''small'' portion is still a few hundred million people which is larger in size to Carnival Cruise Lines source market in the US and Canada. With that said I agree with Chengkp75 and Tonka's Skipper about the potential quality (or the lack thereof) of a ship built in China considering the fact that they don't have the best track record I'm very skeptical. Also, this proposed Chinese cruise line is a huge gamble but it'll be interesting how it turns out, but the bottom line is that the Chinese market has a huge untapped potential and over the past couple of years we've seen many US companies introduce their products to the market with great success like Apple, Tesla, GM, and Ford.