Is RCI's "refund" for the Oasis "Tragedy at Sea" Appropriate?

[royzer76]

I'm not sure that you can make a blanket statement like that -- I was not there so I can't speak from experience but obviously there are some cruisers who enjoyed themselves and got good service and reaped the benefits of the "new Oasis". Everyone has complained about the embarkation and debarkation problems which could be attributed to port officials and customs.

 

I am not making excuses for RCI and the ship probably should have been at dry-dock one more week. However, what I am questioning is if the majority of the passengers did not encounter problems that you mention in your email and previous posts, what do you think is a fair compensation for the cruise? Should it be only for guests who had complaints and problems or across the board compensation for all guests or a simple discount for future cruise?

 

I think those that are not complaining should decline the offer of the compensation to make a point. It they thought everything was great and that those complaining are whingers they should not use the certificate. Why accept the compensation is you don't think it is needed?

 

I have emailed a complaint like many others and despite being labelled as a whinger and just out to get something I stand by my complaint and take offence at such labels.

[DirtyDawg]

I would be a little offended with this response. Again, just my opinion, but they are not taking ownership for all of the problems that were of their own doing. I would expect a more forthright response to the effect of "we really dropped the ball and offer our sincerest apologies for the issues encountered by our valued customers...we want to learn from this experience and we are reviewing all of our customer feedback so that we can address the concerns that are within our control..."

 

Not sure if your version for the wording would get past RCCL's lawyers. Or their Marketing department for that matter.

 

I honestly don't know how compensation for all the issues faced should be handled, given the varying cruise fares paid, but I would be more satisfied with at least a 25% immediate credit issued to each passenger. That might make me think it was a one-time occurrence and make me willing to give them another chance. I don't think providing credit towards a future booking shows any accountability for the problems. Since I have no loyalty to any business, I would be less inclined to give them another dime of my money - I am known to cut off my nose to spite my face - and chalk it up to lesson learned. Again, this response would not make me happy but others may think differently and that is fine.

 

From the company's standpoint, they want to get those people back on Royal so they offered a deal to help with that return decision. Should that deal have been be 10%, 20% 50% or 100% who knows. Some people will be thrilled with 20% others not no much. So if let's say 80% of the people would be thrilled at the 20% deal and 20% would be only be satisfied getting a full 100% why spend an extra 80% on the 80% (so everyone gets 100%) just to satisfy the 20%? That's a lot of extra cash wasted.

 

I'm sure they didn't offer an immediate 25% refund to everyone because some of the people on that cruise will never go back. Why give those people back $250, $500, or $1,000 to go spend on Carnival or NCL, or on a new iPad? That would not be a good use of shareholders' cash.

[RocketMan275]

I think those that are not complaining should decline the offer of the compensation to make a point. It they thought everything was great and that those complaining are whingers they should not use the certificate. Why accept the compensation is you don't think it is needed?

 

I have emailed a complaint like many others and despite being labelled as a whinger and just out to get something I stand by my complaint and take offence at such labels.

 

And, I think those who think the actions of Royal are, somehow, insufficient, should refuse the compensation as a matter of principle.

[mustangjoe]

fair!

[kccrzr]

I do think the offer is fair but also think that RCI's communication regarding the offer could have and should have been better, including taking more responsibility for issues encountered. My husband is an architect for major projects and construction issues and delays invariably result in less than 100% completion upon opening - that is just the way it is, so no reason not to acknowledge the issues.

 

On the other hand, based on the reviews I have read, I think the sailing, although not without issues by any means, was far from a "tragedy."

[artbcpa]

Thank you for all of your responses. Most of them were well thought out and displayed a variety of legitimate opinions. I do agree that the title of my thread was a little over the top (sorry about that). It certainly does not compare to those passengers who have had to endure ship-wide illnesses or a ship's engine or ventilation system that failed or even being abandoned in the middle of a cruise (all of which have happened). I was looking to generate a discussion, which this did, but perhaps I was insensitive to those who have truly suffered.

 

 

Full disclosure: This was my 28th cruise and I have cruised on just about every cruise line from Carnival to Crystal. I have run a service oriented business for many years (as has Ellie) and am currently on the speaking circuit where I discuss issues just like this. I encourage discussion in my live seminars and have no problem with people who have varying opinions. I often post on Yelp, Trip Advisor, and Angie's List as well as cruise critic. If you read any of my threads, you will see that I try to be as objective as possible, pointing out the things we like as well as the things we believe can be improved. Over the years we have seen many improvements in the way companies have responded to consumer complaints. The Passengers Bill Of Rights was a direct result of consumer input. Many cruise lines, hotels, restaurants and service oriented companies monitor these sites.

 

 

P.S. RCI issued an OBC for a similar problem that took place on the Mariner after its Dry Dock.

Edited November 7, 2014 by artbcpa

[JetsFanCruiser]

Since apparently there are people who have not read about (or experienced) what took place on this voyage, let me mention a couple of the biggest issues we faced.

 

1. The biggest problem by far was the lack of service and attitude of the staff. In any business things go wrong. How you deal with them is what makes the difference in a service oriented business. When the embarkation problems in Rotterdam and then Southampton occurred, there were NO RCI to be seen anywhere. When lines occurred for events during the cruise, it was the same and finally when we disembarked in Fort Lauderdale and the situation was even worse, the staff was still in "hiding". Any attempt to discuss the problems with "Guest NON-relations" was met with defensive replies.

 

2. Construction in progress - RCI did not allow sufficient time in dry dock to complete their renovations. So not only were there several venues closed (which added to the overcrowding), but there jackhammers being used, the smell of paint in many parts of the ship. Personally we experienced an even more blatant example as they decided to shampoo our carpet while the cruise was still in progress. All of this occurred without any notification to the passengers or even to their travel agents (as I am one).

 

Of course there were more, but I truly do not want to rehash them here as there were also lots of things that I liked about the ship. You can read them in my "live" thread. http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2114373

 

That was not the purpose of my original question.

 

What I was asking is whether you believe the 20% credit toward a future cruise was an appropriate response. What would you do if your company did not perform as you hoped it would and your customers did not receive the benefits from your product that you hope they would.

 

Here is what Ellie suggested:

 

1. First acknowledge your mistakes. Don't try to whitewash them and blame the problems on everyone else.

 

2. Offer compensation for what took place. Remember the size of the company we are talking about, the amount they spend on advertising and the goodwill that could be created.

 

3. Offer a discount on a future cruise.

 

What do you think? Is that too much to expect?

 

I think it is too much to expect. Company's just do not provide money back unless there are serious flaws in the delivery of their product/service, none of which appear to have happened on this cruise. Long lines, mis-communication and non-communication, and construction would not lead to the offer of compensation. It's just not serious enough.

 

As far as the cost associated with compensating passengers....let's say they offered each passenger $250 in compensation as a result of the problems....That's about $1.5 million in expense to the company...hardly pennies even to RCCL.....

 

I believe that the future cruise discount is appropriate.

[royzer76]

On the other hand, based on the reviews I have read, I think the sailing, although not without issues by any means, was far from a "tragedy."

 

Yes I agree. It was far from being a tragedy but also not perfect or anywhere near what I have come to expect.

 

As I said earlier I have emailed a complaint, but the main purpose of doing so was to highlight where I thought RC had let down their guests and in particular the many regular RC cruisers on board.

 

We had a good vacation that was marred by certain events. I am happy with their action.

[travelberlin]

Do I think the response from Royal is fair? Yes I do. Do I think the name of your post including something like "tragedy at sea" is correct? No I do not. I think that is unfair for the issue you describe.

Edited November 7, 2014 by travelberlin

[SA Traveler]

I think it's worth noting that nobody actually asked for this. RC have themselves realised that they dropped the ball on numerous occasions and are offering something to say sorry. If they actually thought they had done nothing wrong they wouldn't have taken this path. It was their decision to offer every guest some compensation. They could have said 'you know what .. crap happens'.

 

Will those that apparently had no issue decline from using this special certificate if you thought everything was fabulous??

 

I think it's great they have acted in this way and despite what some say there were issues and not just because of weather or because a few venues were not available.

 

For example .. I don't want to queue in line like cattle, where tempers are flaring among guests as they jostle for the front of the Queue. It wasn't the dry dock that caused this shambles it was bad planning! When I finally boarded the ship I was so stressed the last thing I wanted was a bunch of dancers and band shouting 'hey you're on vacation' ... I needed a lie down.

 

I remain a fan of RC and the fact they have held their hands up and said 'we got stuff wrong' makes me a bigger fan.

 

 

I'm with you as far as being a fan but they only realized they "dropped" the ball because of the customer surveys and the letters of complaint they received. They didn't figure it out on their own. I don't believe they would have made the decision to offer this discount had they only received a "few" bad surveys or a handful of complaint letters.

 

Also I have been on 40 cruises and have never seen this kind of embarkation and debarkation. The lack of communication was unbelievable. We had no idea we were going to have to debark and go through immigration in Southampton. We didn't get the letter. So when we did get off we expected to be able to get right back on and were not prepared to wait in a mob for two hours. (and I am not an angry American and I never raised my voice.) If you weren't there you can't imagine it. For those who experienced no issues I am happy for you but that doesn't mean issues didn't exist for the rest of us. This is the only one of our 30 RCI cruises that we didn't give excellent across the board ratings on the survey and as has been stated many times it was mostly due to the attitude of the staff.

[beachnative]

TOTALLY FAIR AND MORE THAN ENOUGH!

 

There are people who want and/or demand compensation….that's just who they are.

 

We were offered compensation twice this year to cover "our inconvenience". We had to beg them NOT to give it to us. The first time it was offered they gave it to us anyway. The second time we stated and explained more clearly that we were not inconvenienced and they did as we asked, dropped the compensation.

 

We cruise a lot each year and have yet to feel that we deserve compensation probably because we are easy going and have always enjoyed our cruises even when "stuff" happened.

 

As I said at the start, some people want compensation for almost any small inconvenience.

Edited November 7, 2014 by beachnative

[RDC1]

I also feel that the 20% discount offer is reasonable. You can put the nature of the problems into 4 catgories:

 

1. Those related to dry dock - these are clearly the responsibility of RCI and should be a driver of the offer. The key learning event from this is do not take the last cruise before dry dock and do not take the first one after dry dock. The odds that something on the cruise will be impacted on those two is quite high.

 

2. Those related to embarkation and disembarkation - Difficult to determine how much of this is related to items inside or outside of RCI control. I have seen bad situations in this area even when the cruise lines did everything they could to moderate (advance notifications, taking guests to other areas to wait through the delay, etc). The biggest issue here that can be impacted by RCI is the lack of information.

 

3. Bad weather - Not much RCI could so about that.

 

4. Overall customer service and training. This is also the responsibility of RCI, though not much they could do about items 1 or 2 except apologize.

 

A 20% discount is not a trivial amount. It is really not intended to be a refund, as it is intended to get people back on another cruise to show that this cruise was not really what RCI was about. When you think about it if someone is not willing to use the 20% discount then they are probably gone for good and giving any type of refund would just be throwing money away from the cruise line perspective.

 

For those willing to try another RCI cruise then the amount is probably satisfactory. For those that have written off RCI then no amount of future discount is sufficient.

Edited November 7, 2014 by RDC1

[critterchick]

I think that the offer is fair. But if I recall correctly, passengers on Quantum are being offered 25% OBC on a future cruise just for a bad embarkation, so I'm not sure that it's fair on a relative basis.

 

As to whether all passengers should get it, I imagine that if RCI only compensated people who complained, some (not ALL, SOME) of those who did not would get their knickers in a twist over being excluded.

 

I do think that they owned up to the problem.

 

And I did see quotation marks around "Tragedy", so am assuming that OP acknowledges that it's an exaggeration.

 

I would just hope that RCI learns from the experience but it's happened before, so I doubt it.

[LMaxwell]

Some people just cannot be satisfied and try to get as much as they can from companies, had they not vacummed the OP would have complained about the floor being dirty and demanded a free cruise.

 

I don't get that impression from OP at all. I think you are really reaching and making accusations that are baseless.

[emmy]

We were on the sailing and had a great time. Sure, there were some problems with embarkation and disembarkation but onboard, we had a wonderful time. True the weather sucked and sent most everyone inside which crowded the venues not designed for that many people - but hey, we were on a cruise. We always found space along the Promenade for four of us to play cards and have a drink, saw the shows we wanted to without waiting in lines. Who wouldn't have thought there would be long lines for the first showing of Cats? We went the second day with no reservation and no line. Go figure. Same for shows that were cancelled due to weather, of course the next showing will be more crowded, it's just logical and same happens on the seven day sailings.

We got a kick out of watching the masses lining up 30 minutes early for the Diamond and above lounges to open, or for traditional dinino times - like somehow they wouldn't get in. Went to the lounges around 6 or 7, no problem getting a drink, but trying to find a seat -not gonna happen. People went in at 5 and camped out for the entire time. As we're not into that, we just got a drink and small snack, and took off. We're not big on camping out in a lounge for 3.5 hours to get our drink on for "free", lots of lounges and bars around the ship, and shows to see (with no lines) during that time. Again, go figure.

Truly didn't find any venues actually closed that had any affect over a regular cruise except Viking Crown, which was rarely used on a regular sailing anyways (in five Oasis sailings before, we've been in there total of 3 times, no loss to us). Sure, theater was closed for rehearsals, but not much happens in there normally. Izumi was closed, but as it used to be part of Windjammer, that actually gave more public space in Windjammer and had no affect as it took part of the dining room which wasn't open normally anyways. Those with access to Co clergy lounge still had the option, etc.

We simply had a great time. Would uave been betterm if the weather had been better. Certainly did not expect any kind of compensation for what was, for us, a good cruise. This is more than generous in our opinion. I understand some people had hot water probkems or TV problems , but we didn't at all, and the crowds were a non-issue, except having to hear people complaining left and right about them (not sure exactly what RCI was supposed to do about that). Overall, more than fair in our opinion.

And I certainly would not refer to this cruise as "Tragedy of the Seas". That is quite extreme for a cruise that sailed fine, didn't capsize or have major deaths onboard, etc. Cool weather is not a tragedy.

 

 

This is exactly my feelings as well.

 

Yes fair and totally unexpected.

[SnappyNappi]

Just my 2-cents and IMHO, some have mentioned that only those that complain should get compensation or be given something for their 'woes'. This is definitely appropriate in some cases and we read about those things on forums like CC all the time when there are extenuating circumstances. However, in a situation like this one, if you would just put on your 'marketing-cap' for a moment, you would realize that if ANY company only gave compensation only to those that complained or gave negative reviews, it would not take long for word to get around. Everyone would want their piece of what is being given away and that the company would notice a substantial increase in the number of negative reviews and complaint letters received. They give blanket compensation or credit to ensure that complaints are valid, reviews of services, staff and products are fair and it enables them to use that information to fairly gauge their business practices and get a closer-to-honest view of their customer satisfaction overall as they make changes that impact their customers.

 

If the squeaky wheel is the only one that gets oil, you need a whole lot more oil when all the wheels squeak one at a time, than if you just do your good maintenance to make sure everything is functioning properly.

 

I wasn't on the cruise, but from the sound of it, I think RCCL did acknowledge that there were issues and they gave something extra that some cruises felt was warranted and that others may have felt was a nice-to-have following a pretty uneventful cruise vacation from their standpoint. Being that some did not experience the same level of dissatisfaction that others claim to have had, I also think it would be foolish of RCCL to send out an e-mail to all of the cruisers and say some of the things that other posters have said that they should have written in the e-mail that went out. Sending out a full-on 'We screwed up' e-mail is never going to happen unless there was an overwhelming majority of people who had a terrible experience. I think they did the right thing by the cruisers (all of them) and for the company by making a very general apology for things that cruisers may have encountered and giving future compensation to all on the sailing.

[EGG]

My feeling is that you should not have been compensated at all.

 

I have been on a North Atlantic transatlantic where the weather was too cool to lounge on the pool deck and the lines and waits you saw were an hour long. People were singing on line waiting for watercoloring and having a great time. I guess it depends on the crowd. Transatlantics are just a different type of cruise and that is why they usually cost significantly less per day.

 

I've been on a cruise going into drydock and they started removing the carpeting the day before we docked.

 

I've been on a member group cruise where you could not get into the lounges for your free drinks and our tablemates just made the comment that they would not take a member cruise again.

 

I've been on a cruise through the Panama Canal on a ship with inadequate air conditioning.

 

I've been on The Queen Victoria out of Los Angeles where they could not handle the embarkation and the people in the Suites waited in lines for an hour to embark with everyone else. I never blame embarkation or debarkation problems on a cruise line when they are not in their home port.

 

I've been on cruises that missed ports because of the weather.

 

I have never received compensation and I never asked for any. You should be thrilled that you were given any compensation at all.

[springaussie]

Looks like I might have to go and meet Airforce 1 next week on arrival here in Brisbane to fix those Customs and Immigrations issue up at Fort Lauderdale.

Just need to book Fox News first!:D

[wolfganghowell]

Compensation seems fair. I would guess that the Hotel Director, Cruise Director and Captain may have some explaining to do to Corporate based on the multiple reports of NO officer presence or onboard solutions.

 

As others have said, it's just another cautionary tale to avoid booking after a drydock. We purposely booked Celebrity Solstice a good 6 weeks after it launched so they would get the kinks out. I feel post drydocks and inaugurals should be highly discounted since everyone onboard is figuratively and possibly literally ;) "getting their feet wet."

 

Art, I read your review and you presented it well. Thanks for owning up that "tragedy" was a bit of an overstatement.

 

Having seen the clique-ish nature of some DL's and CL's, I'd imagine that a transatlantic would have an overabundance of entitled D's, D+ and P's. I would like to take one someday but every one I hear about has this common thread of senior complainers. (Note to self - do not become crotchety and loud in my old age!)

[JasonV1]

I haven't done a post-refurb-TA yet, but based on previous postings on this board I assume that:

 

1) The refurb is typically not completed while in dry dock, it continues during the crossing.

2) Weather in the North Atlantic is iffy, particularly at this time of year.

 

I balance those two things against the price, which is typically less than a traditional cruise on a cost-per-day basis. Given that I spend my time on cruises either in the (warm I hope) Solarium, or eating meals, I realize that a late fall/early winter/winter TA is probably not the best idea unless I plan to spend a lot more time than normal indoors (indoor casinos, trivia, and bingo are not my idea of fun).

 

Could Royal have handled it differently? Probably. Will they moving forward? Probably not. The refurbs are so rare, and the work schedules subject to change, that at most they could give you a vague "some venues will be unavailable" / "work in progress" type of disclaimer that would only make guests ask a ton of questions that the Royal phone staff won't know the answer to anyway.

 

My 2 cents... FWIW.

[Brighton Line]

You could decide if it is a comparable situation.

Princess 5 day cruise from NYC to Bermuda, leave Saturday make a left instead of a right. End up in Boston on Sunday with 2 Tugs, 21 lines keeping us against the pier in 90 knot wind and all outside decks closed as Hurricane Sandy passes.

None of the shops were open other then on Saturday due to us not calling at a foreign port. No one allowed off the ship since Boston is shut down no C&BP to process anyone leaving the ship and unsafe to allow people to go into Boston.

Comic left, actual petition passed around for more Karaoke during the day. No shops open still, smokers out of smokes, people begging for aspirin at customer service.

Finally let us into Boston but be back on the ship at 5p as we do not know when we are leaving. Port of NY closed, Brooklyn pier destroyed (and cars parked there floated/completely submerged).

Buses provided back to NYC on Thursday, finally sailed Thursday arrival Friday at Manhattan Pier (first time Princess called there ever). Pier building closed, Customs consists of handing form and being video taped at gangway from Deck 0 (like calling a port of call), no shore power. Bus to downtown Brooklyn provided, driver gets lost.

 

Okay, spent a lot of time indoors (similar) and Princess offered a future cruise credit equal to HALF the cruise fare to be used with in 365 days of the end of this cruise.

 

So is RCL's fare credit fair as Princess?

[CntPAcruiser]

I haven't done a post-refurb-TA yet, but based on previous postings on this board I assume that:

 

1) The refurb is typically not completed while in dry dock, it continues during the crossing.

2) Weather in the North Atlantic is iffy, particularly at this time of year.

 

I balance those two things against the price, which is typically less than a traditional cruise on a cost-per-day basis. Given that I spend my time on cruises either in the (warm I hope) Solarium, or eating meals, I realize that a late fall/early winter/winter TA is probably not the best idea unless I plan to spend a lot more time than normal indoors (indoor casinos, trivia, and bingo are not my idea of fun).

 

Could Royal have handled it differently? Probably. Will they moving forward? Probably not. The refurbs are so rare, and the work schedules subject to change, that at most they could give you a vague "some venues will be unavailable" / "work in progress" type of disclaimer that would only make guests ask a ton of questions that the Royal phone staff won't know the answer to anyway.

 

My 2 cents... FWIW.

 

This is well put. Similarly, I will not go to a restaurant that has just opened. I'll give them at least a few weeks to figure things out and work out the problems and then try them.

 

Also, my expectations for a TA crossing on a cruise ship versus and ocean liner would be quite different, both with regard to the way the ship handles the ocean and how well suited the activities and public spaces are on board for the crossing.

 

I'm reminded of reports of a couple on an Alaska cruise who complained about the weather--they didn't know it would be cold.

[cruising sister]

I was on the Brilliance of The Seas in 2010 when we hit a storm in the Mediterranean and the ship was trashed and we were first offered $200 OBC. Once RCI realized the magnitude of the damage we were fairly compensated for our cruise. There are times when it is worth doing the right thing to show that the "company" does care about your vacation. Many people work hard and expect the fairy tale and are willing to pay for it. Isn't that what the cruise industry is selling? I hope when the Allure goes into dry dock next May they don't start pulling up the carpets when I am on the east bound TA!!!

[Vitamin_Sea]

All cruise contracts are written/worded in a way that makes the cruise lines almost responsible for nothing. We give up mostly all our rights. Sadly.

But I expect to be given a ship in top notch condition.

 

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/content/en_US/pdf/CTC_Not_For_BR.pdf

 

RCCL is offering 20% off future cruise which seems fair but I dont blame people for wanting a little more.

Edited November 7, 2014 by limoguy1

[DirtyDawg]

RCCL is offering 20% off future cruise which seems fair but I dont blame people for wanting a little more.

 

It's tradition!

Edited November 7, 2014 by DirtyDawg