Crown Princess and Norovirus

[boone2]

Oh, Bruce! You got me! I have never attended the USPH class you teach for the CDC. Gosh, here I thought I was gonna get away with it. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

 

 

Are you currently between jobs or something? You seem to have so much spare time to come here to the Princess boards and lecture us in the error of our ignorant ways.

 

 

Maybe he's trying to educate people and help them understand how this virus spreads which is rather better than a lot of nonsense and scaremongering that is often spouted about this subject. Thank you Bruce. You do a great job although not always appreciated. I speak as a cruise ship nurse

Terry

 

 

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[MGnut]

Maybe he's trying to educate people and help them understand how this virus spreads which is rather better than a lot of nonsense and scaremongering that is often spouted about this subject. Thank you Bruce. You do a great job although not always appreciated. I speak as a cruise ship nurse

Terry

 

 

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Terry, I agree with you, and hope that BruceMuzz keeps us informed on what really happens on cruise ships.

 

And HELLO from Janeen & Howard (Ruby Grand Med, 2009)

[boone2]

Terry, I agree with you, and hope that BruceMuzz keeps us informed on what really happens on cruise ships.

 

 

 

And HELLO from Janeen & Howard (Ruby Grand Med, 2009)

 

 

Hello to you both. Lovely to hear from you

Terry

 

 

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[capriccio]

Maybe he's trying to educate people and help them understand how this virus spreads which is rather better than a lot of nonsense and scaremongering that is often spouted about this subject. Thank you Bruce. You do a great job although not always appreciated. I speak as a cruise ship nurse

Terry

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

 

Count me as another Bruce fan - I almost always learn something from his posts.

[suzyed]

Maybe he's trying to educate people and help them understand how this virus spreads which is rather better than a lot of nonsense and scaremongering that is often spouted about this subject. Thank you Bruce. You do a great job although not always appreciated. I speak as a cruise ship nurse

Terry

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

 

I was not scaremongering nor spouting nonsense...I was merely agreeing with someone who said hand washing is essential. People touch their faces and mouths...and if they have washed their hands thoroughly and often, there will be far fewer germs to enter their orifices. Of course all the hints presented will help stem the spread of the virus.

We went for 3 weeks on this last sailing without a huge outbreak of illness. It was not until our stop in Tahiti that things got really bad! It most likely was picked up by several people in the market or at the food trucks. So between the time it was picked up and when folks got to wash their hands, they may have touched their faces. That doesn't mean they have poor hygiene or filthy habits.

This is coming from an OR nurse of over 35 years!

[BruceMuzz]

I was not scaremongering nor spouting nonsense...I was merely agreeing with someone who said hand washing is essential. People touch their faces and mouths...and if they have washed their hands thoroughly and often, there will be far fewer germs to enter their orifices. Of course all the hints presented will help stem the spread of the virus.

We went for 3 weeks on this last sailing without a huge outbreak of illness. It was not until our stop in Tahiti that things got really bad! It most likely was picked up by several people in the market or at the food trucks. So between the time it was picked up and when folks got to wash their hands, they may have touched their faces. That doesn't mean they have poor hygiene or filthy habits.

This is coming from an OR nurse of over 35 years!

 

If your hands are contaminated and you touch your face with them, you do NOT contract Norovirus.

If your hands are contaminated and you are picking your nose or teeth with them, you will most likely contract Norovirus. If you use those dirty hands to handle food or food utensils, you give the virus not only to yourself - but to others as well.

 

Poor hygiene is rarely the problem.

Being stupid and careless IS the problem.

 

People with contaminated hands will NOT get sick if they keep their dirty hands out of their noses, mouths, eyes, ears - and food.

[AZbeachboy]

Apparently you have never attended the USPH Classes I teach for the CDC.

 

We track the contagion routes and patterns very carefully. Typically we start with "patient zero", then we see the next 2 to 6 people who were in contact with him/her, then we next see the next dozen or so who shared a tour or dinner, or a craft class with the original carriers. The numbers increase exponentially from there.

 

 

In this age of the ME, ME, ME,ME Generation cruising on ships, it is all too easy to blame everyone else for poor personal hygiene. It is time to look into the mirror a bit more closely.

 

I taught STD classes for CDC. It had to be more fun that your subject. I know the materials scared my son's and they stayed virgins longer. Of couse that is according to them and what they tell their wives.

[Salacia]

Apparently you have never attended the USPH Classes I teach for the CDC.

 

Yes, food and water can be carriers of viruses.

So can the air - when someone with a virus vomits near you.

 

On a cruise ship, many hundreds or thousands of people eat and drink the same things every day. Food and drinks are prepared in very large batches at the same time. If the food or drinks are contaminated by a virus, many hundreds or thousands will become sick at the same time. Even if those hundreds or thousands have been incredibly clean in their behavior, they have no control over what has been done to their food or drinks before they consume them.

But that almost never happens. Even the worst outbreaks ever seen on ships start with small numbers at first and then increase rapidly as the infected passengers spread their illness to others.

 

We track the contagion routes and patterns very carefully. Typically we start with "patient zero", then we see the next 2 to 6 people who were in contact with him/her, then we next see the next dozen or so who shared a tour or dinner, or a craft class with the original carriers. The numbers increase exponentially from there.

 

If an ill person vomits in a public area, the virus spores are aerosolized for a short period of time. Anyone passing that area and breathing in the spores cannot help but be infected. No amount of hand washing can prevent this.

But research has shown that the number of people who are infected in this way is nearly zero. The aerosolized spores remain in the air for just a few minutes after the event.

 

So how else does the virus enter your body?

There are very few available routes; mouth, nose, eyes, and ears.

How does it usually enter those spaces? Dirty hands.

 

You DO NOT have to wash your hands EVER in order to stay free of Noro Virus. You need only keep them out of your mouth, nose, eyes, and ears. And you need to use utensils instead of hands to eat your food.

 

In this age of the ME, ME, ME,ME Generation cruising on ships, it is all too easy to blame everyone else for poor personal hygiene. It is time to look into the mirror a bit more closely.

 

Bruce, I will remind you of your previous quote:

"It is usually people with unclean personal habits who allow the virus to enter their bodies."

 

You are teaching a CDC course? In that case, my tax dollars are being misdirected. -S.

[caribill]

error

Edited November 26, 2014 by caribill

[BruceMuzz]

Bruce, I will remind you of your previous quote:

"It is usually people with unclean personal habits who allow the virus to enter their bodies."

 

You are teaching a CDC course? In that case, my tax dollars are being misdirected. -S.

 

People who put their hands (clean or otherwise) into their noses, mouths and eyes have unclean personal hygiene habits. These are the people who contract viruses - and also frequently try to spread them (often successfully) to other people.

 

If you live in America, the country with - by far - the highest number of Norovirus outbreaks in the world, you have bigger problems than your tax dollars being misdirected.

[curtdesilets]

We were on the Crown Princess in 2012 for a transatlantic. The noro was prevalent on the ship. I think we had 175 people with the virus. It was alarming to get a verbal (loud speaker) report from the bridge updating us on the number of people who had come down with noro.

 

OP here. As I stated earlier, we were on the first British Isles cruise on Crown for the 2011 season, and the ship was already contaminated with Norovirus prior to our boarding. We were talking to a B2B cruiser who was on the Transatlantic prior to ours, who described the situation as pretty bad. As a result of that outbreak, and the continuing outbreak on our cruise, we were in Code Red for the entire cruise. Again, journeys that do not disembark in the US never are reported to CDC. So I think there are a number of other cases on the Crown, when she departs for or cruises within Europe.

 

As a side note, we had no delayed boarding on our cruise, so no deep cleaning was done. Probably has something to do with the lack of a CDC announcement in the UK.

Edited November 26, 2014 by curtdesilets
Clarification

[jer_l]

Last evening just before dinner the captain of the Crown Princess came on the pa system to announce that there is still a problem with nori virus on board

 

The crew has been quite diligent with cleaning, but, unfortunately, some passengers are not. While at dinner we could hear an older couple seated right next to us and the man saying he was achy and his stomach hurt. He was not eating any of his food and said he had not eaten all day. I wanted to turn to him and say "Go to your cabin!!". We did get up and ask to be moved without saying anything to others. The matre 'd was quite accommodating and our waiter sent our order to the new waiter.

 

When we returned to our cabin later we saw a room being cleaned by someone other than the regular room steward and all the linens bagged in plastic. I assume the occupants had been hit by Niro.

 

We are quite careful even to the point of taking hand sanitizer to use after viewing the menus and before we eat. We've been on ships with bad cases of the virus and fortunately never caught it ourselves.

[shredie]

People who put their hands (clean or otherwise) into their noses, mouths and eyes have unclean personal hygiene habits. These are the people who contract viruses - and also frequently try to spread them (often successfully) to other people.

 

If you live in America, the country with - by far - the highest number of Norovirus outbreaks in the world, you have bigger problems than your tax dollars being misdirected.

 

Eat your pizza with a fork like civilized people in Sete, France, do, and stop putting your disgusting viral American hands in your mouth. Problem solved.

Edited November 26, 2014 by shredie

[Salacia]

People who put their hands (clean or otherwise) into their noses, mouths and eyes have unclean personal hygiene habits. These are the people who contract viruses - and also frequently try to spread them (often successfully) to other people.

 

If you live in America, the country with - by far - the highest number of Norovirus outbreaks in the world, you have bigger problems than your tax dollars being misdirected.

 

BruceMuzz, your certainty regarding the spread of virus is very interesting. But it is also BS (Baseless Science).

 

Yes, I do live in the United States, and it might be correct to say that my country has the highest number of REPORTED Noro cases, although I have no source for your claim. Being the expert that you are, I'm sure you are aware that of the reasons for such a statement might be include:

 

-the population of the USA compared to other countries

-medical care is more available than other countries, hence...

-reporting of viral outbreaks is greater due to Public Health reporting, as opposed to some countries where there is no reporting of outbreaks due to suppression or other more banal factors.

 

No doubt you are also aware that many of the Noro outbreaks in the USA have been traced to food and water as being the source. Gasto-intestinal illness has also been attributed to Enterotoxigenic E. coli (ETEC) both on land and on cruise ships (including the Crown April 5-12, 2014)

 

I responded to your comments, but I question why you deflected the discussion...we were talking about Noro on cruise ships, were we not?

Edited November 27, 2014 by Salacia

[Greyhound3]

Eat your pizza with a fork like civilized people in Sete, France, do, and stop putting your disgusting viral American hands in your mouth. Problem solved.

 

That didn't work out too well for Mayor Di Blasio.

 

http://nation.time.com/2014/01/10/de-blasio-pizza-fork-scandal/

 

 

Grey

[shredie]

That didn't work out too well for Mayor Di Blasio.

 

http://nation.time.com/2014/01/10/de-blasio-pizza-fork-scandal/

 

 

Grey

 

LOL! But did he avoid noro? ;)

[Greyhound3]

LOL! But did he avoid noro? ;)

 

 

Touchè! :D

 

 

Grey

[Salacia]

True confession: when I was a young teenager, my mother took me on a Canada tour. One afternoon, we had lunch at place serving 'pizza pie'. I noticed that the locals ate it with a knife and fork. To this day, I think it's the best way to eat a pizza. Don't hate me.

 

Salacia

[shredie]

True confession: when I was a young teenager, my mother took me on a Canada tour. One afternoon, we had lunch at place serving 'pizza pie'. I noticed that the locals ate it with a knife and fork. To this day, I think it's the best way to eat a pizza. Don't hate me.

 

Salacia

 

LOL! Bruce is going to approve. ;)

[Salacia]

LOL! Bruce is going to approve. ;)

 

Oh good! I feel so much better now! ;)

[curtdesilets]

Apparently she came down with Norovirus on an October Hawaii Cruise as per this quite negative review:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=265625

 

The reviewer believes the Noro was contracted due to lack of cleanliness and understaffed room stewards. That is possible, I guess.

 

I'm reading these reviews because we would like to take one of the 3-4 day Pacific Coastal cruises Princess offers, but I'm not sure if it is wise...yet.

Edited November 27, 2014 by curtdesilets
clarification

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Apparently she came down with Norovirus on an October Hawaii Cruise as per this quite negative review:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=265625

 

The reviewer believes the Noro was contracted due to lack of cleanliness and understaffed room stewards. That is possible, I guess.

 

I'm reading these reviews because we would like to take one of the 3-4 day Pacific Coastal cruises Princess offers, but I'm not sure if it is wise...yet.

 

I am certainly no expert on Norovirus but I don't think you can get norovirus from having dirty dishes left in your cabin.

 

Bill

[suzyed]

True confession: when I was a young teenager, my mother took me on a Canada tour. One afternoon, we had lunch at place serving 'pizza pie'. I noticed that the locals ate it with a knife and fork. To this day, I think it's the best way to eat a pizza. Don't hate me.

 

Salacia

 

"pizza pie" translated means "pie pie"

 

Also, no self respecting NYer would eat pizza with a knife and fork!

 

RE: DiBlasio....I rest my case! ;)

[Salacia]

"pizza pie" translated means "pie pie"

 

Also, no self respecting NYer would eat pizza with a knife and fork!

 

RE: DiBlasio....I rest my case! ;)

 

 

 

Well, excuse me, but I am a self-respecting New Yorker and I do eat pizza with a knife and a fork. I avoid offending others by eating a slice of pizza in the privacy of my own home -exception being where it is a local custom to eat it with a knife and fork.

 

Regarding the reference to de Blasio, it of no concern of mine how he eats his pie pie.

 

-S.

[suzyed]

well, excuse me, but i am a self-respecting new yorker and i do eat pizza with a knife and a fork. I avoid offending others by eating a slice of pizza in the privacy of my own home -exception being where it is a local custom to eat it with a knife and fork.

 

Regarding the reference to de blasio, it of no concern of mine how he eats his pie pie.

 

-s.

 

lol!!