So if Celebrity is going to deliver premium experiences

[uktog]

I wonder where all this now positions Azamara

 

MIAMI, Dec. 4, 2014 /PRNewswire/ -- Celebrity Cruises has taken a bold step in ship design with the signing of a letter of intent for a new class of vessels, Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. and French shipbuilder STX France announced today. The two 2,900-guest, 117,000-gross-registered-ton ships, developed under the project name EDGE will build upon the modern luxury experience of the brand's Millennium and Solstice class vessels.

 

At 984 feet long, 123 feet wide and 190 feet high, Project EDGE will deliver small ship itineraries with large ship amenities, a perfect vacation experience in step with today's premium vacationer.

 

"The addition of two project EDGE vessels to our fleet delivers on our long-term strategic plan of moderate capacity growth, and continues the positive momentum the Celebrity brand has achieved in the premium segment of our industry," said Richard D. Fain, chairman and chief executive officer of Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd.

 

"Our new class of ship will set the standard for premium world travel and deliver the next generation of modern luxury experiences that our guests know and love," said Michael Bayley, president and chief executive officer of Celebrity Cruises. "STX France designs and builds some of the most innovative and stylish cruise ships in the world, and project EDGE offers them the opportunity to again set a new standard for modern iconic architecture. On this stunning new ship we will bring our guests even closer to the must-see destinations of the world, while indulging them onboard in the most luxurious accommodations, the finest culinary experiences, and the best hospitality delivered by our dedicated staff."

 

"We are excited to be collaborating with Celebrity on this dramatic step forward in premium cruise ship design," said Laurent Castaing, managing director of STX France. "This class of ships will be designed to deliver the destination to vacationers who want to experience all the world has to offer."

 

These vessels also represent a significant leap forward in environmentally friendly ship design, benefiting from new technologies to drive significant fuel efficiency and an ongoing process to ensure the extensive use of sustainable materials.

 

The company expects delivery of the first ship in Fall 2018, with the second vessel delivered in the early part of 2020. The order is contingent upon the completion of customary conditions, including financing.

 

Based upon current ship orders, projected capital expenditures for full year 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018 are $1.4 billion, $1.5 billion, $2.3 billion, $0.4 billion and $2.2 billion, respectively.

 

Capacity increases for 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018 are expected to be 2.4%, 5.5%, 6.7%, 3.8% and 4.3%, respectively. These figures do not include potential ship sales or additions that the company may elect to make in the future.

Edited December 4, 2014 by uktog

[kiawahdon]

Rather than quote the whole PR release, a few salient quotes:

 

-The two 2,900-guest, 117,000-gross-registered-ton ships--- this is a space ratio of 40. Hardly a "premium ship. Not sure how 2,900 of your closest friends can be called premium.

 

-Celebrity brand has achieved in the premium segment of our industry," said Richard D. Fain, chairman and chief executive officer of Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. - Since when is Celebrity a premium brand? What does that make Seabourn, Crystal, Regent, Silver Sea, etc? Chopped liver?

 

-"Our new class of ship will set the standard for premium world travel and deliver the next generation of modern luxury experiences. Where does this leave Azamara? Looks a lot to me on the beach- sorry, but RCL's continued investment in every brand but Azamara, can not be good news.

[Host Jazzbeau]

You need to understand the lingo. "Premium" is the space between "mass market" and "near luxury." Royal Caribbean is mass market, Celebrity is premium, Azamara is near luxury. Seabourn, Crystal, Regent (maybe), Silversea are luxury -- a different kettle of fish.

 

There was a recent quote on the Celebrity board claiming that one of their Suits said there would be new ships soon and they would be "smaller than S-class." Stupidly, I thought that meant fewer passengers than S-class. But NO: the new ships will be smaller in tonnage but have the same number of passengers. So: even less space per passenger.

 

And the tonnage is still too big for Venice (117,000 vs. 96,000 limit) or any of the unusual ports that Azamara can visit. That's the best news for Azamara (since it is still without a ship announcement of its own): it's still needed for the itineraries that make it so special.

[Mercruiser]

It's only going to be a small ship experience when compared to the monster-mega ships that parent RCCL brand uses. When measured against 5400-passenger Oasis class, Solstice class and EDGE are "small ships". Meanwhile, Viking and Oceania are expanding their fleets of less than 1000 passenger ships. I think their fleets and order books show which cruise lines are really interested in small ship cruising. Ignore what they say, watch what they do.

 

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Edited December 5, 2014 by Mercruiser

[need2cruisesoon]

You need to understand the lingo. "Premium" is the space between "mass market" and "near luxury." Royal Caribbean is mass market, Celebrity is premium, Azamara is near luxury. Seabourn, Crystal, Regent (maybe), Silversea are luxury -- a different kettle of fish.

 

Doesn't make any difference the point is monies are being spent for 2 new Celebrity ships not Azamara. Makes you wonder if Larry has anybody's ear in Miami?

[procter]

I wonder if these ships will deliver a "bespoke" experience!?

[florisdekort]

You need to understand the lingo. "Premium" is the space between "mass market" and "near luxury." Royal Caribbean is mass market, Celebrity is premium, Azamara is near luxury. Seabourn, Crystal, Regent (maybe), Silversea are luxury -- a different kettle of fish.

 

 

I'm not sure I would call Azamara "near luxury". The only real difference with X is the smaller ship size. Accommodations, especially the suites, are way more luxurious on X and come with more perks (and even more still after May 2015). The quality of the food is the same; X has made huge steps forward in this area the past 12 months. Whether I pay for alcohol in my cruise fare or buy a package isn't 'luxury' for me. (Actually, as a Zenith, I get it for free at X too, so no difference.) All that leaves is the Azamazing Evening and we have debated that one to death on these Boards already. If I was running RCI, I would integrate Azamara back into X and use the smaller ships in newer geographies until they've developed enough for larger ships.

 

Floris

 

 

 

 

 

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[uktog]

I'm not sure I would call Azamara "near luxury". The only real difference with X is the smaller ship size. Accommodations, especially the suites, are way more luxurious on X and come with more perks (and even more still after May 2015). The quality of the food is the same; X has made huge steps forward in this area the past 12 months. Whether I pay for alcohol in my cruise fare or buy a package isn't 'luxury' for me. (Actually, as a Zenith, I get it for free at X too, so no difference.) All that leaves is the Azamazing Evening and we have debated that one to death on these Boards already. If I was running RCI, I would integrate Azamara back into X and use the smaller ships in newer geographies until they've developed enough for larger ships.

 

Floris

 

 

 

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I have to say that was my thinking as well. The new suite experience on Celebrity really does move the goal posts regarding comparisons

 

I am sorry if others did not think quoting the whole press release was valid, however I thought everyone should see the whole details in context.

[nordski]

I have to say that was my thinking as well. The new suite experience on Celebrity really does move the goal posts regarding comparisons

 

I am sorry if others did not think quoting the whole press release was valid, however I thought everyone should see the whole details in context.

 

Thanks for posting this.

 

It will be interesting where these ships can/will port. It appears Azamara still has more options in this area and that is a primary attraction to us.

 

Howver, you make a good point. If Celebrity is emphasizing its new "premium" experience, perhaps Azamara will fit well inside that culture.

 

As with the new Viking Oceans venture, we look forward to see how Celebrity's initiative plays out.

 

Along with the emergence of river cruising, are we in a "golden era" of cruising concerning the options now available in the marketplace?

[mare s.]

And I just saw in the newspaper this morning that Virgin is planning to start a cruise line based out of Miami. They've already ordered two ships. Going to be lots of competition out there.

[ikelmay]

Whatever flowery rhetoric RCCL uses to describe the Celebrity new builds (for instance, what exactly is Modern Luxury?) I'd still not describe them in any shape or form as 'premium'.

 

The relevant point though, is that RCCL sees fit to announce yet another 2 ships for the brand. The only serious vote of confidence by the parent company is its commitment in terms of tonnage. I can't believe Celebrity is getting another two vessels after barely a pause of breath following on completion of the Solstice class.

 

I'm another one who thinks Azamara's future will be within the extended Celebrity brand.

[kiawahdon]

Whatever flowery rhetoric RCCL uses to describe the Celebrity new builds (for instance, what exactly is Modern Luxury?) I'd still not describe them in any shape or form as 'premium'.

 

The relevant point though, is that RCCL sees fit to announce yet another 2 ships for the brand. The only serious vote of confidence by the parent company is its commitment in terms of tonnage. I can't believe Celebrity is getting another two vessels after barely a pause of breath following on completion of the Solstice class.

 

I'm another one who thinks Azamara's future will be within the extended Celebrity brand.

 

You may well be right. A 2 ship line is not long for this world.

If I was LP, I would fold Az into X and give it a catchy name e.g. Celebrity Explortion. I would kill the free alcohol and focus on extended itineraries all over the planet. Lots of overnights and exotic ports that can't handle the X bemouths. All you have to do is look at the success of Oceania's 2 world cruises on Regatta in '15 to understand the market nitch of longer cruises on an smaller ship/environment. Spend the dollars to upgrade , put under the X umbrella, and rethink the itineraries and I firmly believe RCL will have a winner.

[need2cruisesoon]

They are oohing and aahing over at the Celebrity boards of the 2 new ship builds,

something we may never have the pleasure of experiencing here on the AZ board.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2134547

 

I understand the first ship to be deployed would be in 2018 which would coincide with the timeline of AZ folding in with Celebrity as Kiawahdon has mentioned in his prior post. I believe a plan is in place.

Edited December 6, 2014 by need2cruisesoon

[little britain]

 

You may well be right. A 2 ship line is not long for this world.

If I was LP, I would fold Az into X and give it a catchy name e.g. Celebrity Explortion.

actually when the two ships were first bought they were both included with the Xpedition as the Xpedition class before they were siphoned off to Azamara.

 

 

 

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[Jade13]

Whatever flowery rhetoric RCCL uses to describe the Celebrity new builds (for instance, what exactly is Modern Luxury?) I'd still not describe them in any shape or form as 'premium'.

 

 

Celebrity is Premium. It is not a Luxury line. HAL also considers itself a Premium line. Carnival, RCCL etc are considered Mass Market.

[robertmartha]

I know the celebrity M class ships carry 3x the amt of passengers but with celebrity on order with 2 new ships and the rumor that their M class will then start to leave the fleet....

would completely change the AZ experience (small ships) but if they refurb and scale back the passenger count somehow? Doesn't address getting into smaller more intimate ports though...

A AZ cruise is on my to do list (hopefully soon) ....

[Redtravel]

Having sailed many times on both Azamara and Celebrity, I like both lines. They both have good and bad features. Azamara Journey needs a facelift. I recently completed my 3rd cruise on the Journey. It is staring to become tired looking. Beds need better mattresses, carpet/drapes need to be replaced, etc. By contrast, Celebrity M class ships are nice after their renovations. I like S class ships most. S class is classy. Beautiful decor, fabulous food, nice cabins, and good entertainment.

[Andy]

I know the celebrity M class ships carry 3x the amt of passengers but with celebrity on order with 2 new ships and the rumor that their M class will then start to leave the fleet....

would completely change the AZ experience (small ships) but if they refurb and scale back the passenger count somehow? Doesn't address getting into smaller more intimate ports though...

A AZ cruise is on my to do list (hopefully soon) ....

 

Hi Robertmartha,

 

For years, I wondered if Celebrity Century might move to Azamara. Of course, I realized she was fairly large for Azamara's gameplan, but she's a lovely ship, and I thought something was better than nothing. As we now know, she's headed to China via Ctrip. If Azamara wasn't willing to take on Century, I highly doubt a larger M-Class ship is in Azamara's future.

 

With all of the changes going on at Royal Caribbean & Celebrity via today's blockbuster announcement, it certainly has my radar up, as to if another shoe might (and I repeat MIGHT) drop with Azamara. I'm not predicting anything... but one has to wonder. I'm actually shocked that Larry Pimentel was not moved into either of the 2 positions announced today. He's one of the smartest cruise industry veterans I've ever met. Hopefully, it's a matter of Larry being very happy in his current position.

 

At any rate, it should be very interesting to see what transpires over the coming months.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Host Andy

[mare s.]

I just received an email from Celebrity about a new concept of combining a river cruise with an ocean cruise (Danube and Mediterranean, for example) Celebrity is really thinking outside the box! These combinations would work for folks who have plenty of time (and money) but are quite enticing.

[marinaro44]

I just received an email from Celebrity about a new concept of combining a river cruise with an ocean cruise (Danube and Mediterranean, for example) Celebrity is really thinking outside the box! These combinations would work for folks who have plenty of time (and money) but are quite enticing.

Keep in mind that Larry Pimentel also is the chief destination experience officer for all of RCI, and, in his words, "runs the global tour operation for the corporation." It's his job there, as he puts it, "to think outside the ship."

[mare s.]

Keep in mind that Larry Pimentel also is the chief destination experience officer for all of RCI, and, in his words, "runs the global tour operation for the corporation." It's his job there, as he puts it, "to think outside the ship."

 

Yes, I know. So why wasn't this idea (or a combo of land tour and sea) extended to the Azamara brand? I think it would be a far better fit and in keeping with "destination immersion."

[nordski]

Yes, I know. So why wasn't this idea (or a combo of land tour and sea) extended to the Azamara brand? I think it would be a far better fit and in keeping with "destination immersion."

 

I agree in theory, however the cost would be even steeper with an Azamara connection and furthermore, given the time commitment that you have pointed out, I'm not convinced the number of potential passengers available with a tie-in to Azamara would provide sufficient numbers to warrant the commitment to run the programme.

 

Other issues must have led to interesting discussions at Celebrity. For example, not only do you need cruisers with considerable free time and financial resources, they must also be flexible enough in their expectations to accept that river cruising is a very different animal indeed in terms of facilities, food, entertainment, demographic etc. It is not unusual to hear ocean cruisers expressing surprise at these differences.

 

Another potential issue: (Luftner), their partner in this venture, has a wealth of experience in the European market but has just recently begun expansion into North America.

 

However, experience has taught me to be very humble in predicting success or failure in these ventures and all of my points above may prove to be immaterial.

[mare s.]

Nordski, you're probably right on all counts...it's a very expensive proposition and would be even more with an Azamara connection. However, our cruising friends just went on their first river cruise and loved it and so that's definitely on my bucket list. A different experience for sure, but delightful in its own way. I would just like Azamara to try something new (other than ridiculously expensive shore excursions) I'm still disappointed (I'm with you on this Midwestchick) that there are no East Coast and Canada itineraries for 2017. It seems to me that Azamara is becoming more focused on the Australia market. I'm happy for my friends and family in Oz but I'd sure love to have departure/arrival ports closer to home.

[nordski]

Nordski, you're probably right on all counts...it's a very expensive proposition and would be even more with an Azamara connection. However, our cruising friends just went on their first river cruise and loved it and so that's definitely on my bucket list. A different experience for sure, but delightful in its own way. .

 

 

You are absolutely correct it can be a delightful experience.We've been on three and loved each one.

 

Clearly you are well aware of the differences in the onboard experience and would accept them.

 

I'm guessing, perhaps incorrectly, that your friends were on a Christmas Markets cruise. If so, that's wonderful introduction to river cruising and truly magical.

 

I still find Azamara's itineraries unique in the ports they visit and the time spent in each when compared with other cruise lines. Perhaps that's a failure in my research.