dwgreenlee Posted December 28, 2014 #1 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Marine Traffic reports Insignia is currently moored at 18.447458, -66.089385, Boulevard Saint Thomas, San Juan, Puerto Rico PR 00907 - address via Map Quest. This is on the south side of Isla Grande - just south of the Isla Grande airport. This location is an old WWII Naval Station with a graving dock (dry dock) but Insignia is currently located just outside the dock. Insignia has not moved since being towed to San Juan. It is unclear who owns/operates this facility but several tugs from McAllister Towing operate out of this location and Crowley Marine Services operates port terminals just to the west. Of interest, Navy records list the graving dock width as 83 feet - Insignia is a little wider. It is unclear if this is the repair location or if she is just docked here waiting for parts. Oceania has not provided any details of who is going to do the repair but this location is not a full service shipyard. Insignia need to get moving sometime around Feb 22 to make her Mar 22 appointment in Singapore. Any additional details or insight would be appreciated. It would be great is someone could get eyes on Insignia and report. Human intelligence is always the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Waynetor Posted December 28, 2014 #2 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Thanks for the details. Considering how much detail Oceania has provided so far, I don't expect anything from them regarding repairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Noxequifans Posted December 28, 2014 #3 Share Posted December 28, 2014 I would not expect detailed information regarding mechanical and cosmetic repairs. I am confident Oceania will perform such to a proper standard to insure the safe return of the Insignia to service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiawahdon Posted December 28, 2014 #4 Share Posted December 28, 2014 The NTSB will at some point have a report that will be available to the public. They may also have a preliminary report available now or shortly. But it may take a FOI request to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwgreenlee Posted December 28, 2014 Author #5 Share Posted December 28, 2014 I would not expect detailed information regarding mechanical and cosmetic repairs. I am confident Oceania will perform such to a proper standard to insure the safe return of the Insignia to service. I would have assumed (been confident) Oceania would have taken all due care to avoid the ship catching on fire in the first place, so, I do not share your confidence and would prefer data regarding the repair and corrective action. Folks were "surprised" to return to their ship and find it on fire, the Amazon Allure folks were "surprised" to find their cruise cancelled, and the world cruise folks were "surprised" to find they were truncated and needed to find their way to Singapore. I am booked on Insignia later this year and do not like "surprises." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwgreenlee Posted December 28, 2014 Author #6 Share Posted December 28, 2014 The NTSB will at some point have a report that will be available to the public.They may also have a preliminary report available now or shortly. But it may take a FOI request to get it. Maybe. Marshall Islands is the flag state and generally will have the lead in the investigation - the US does not have any automatic investigative authority. However, sometimes the flag state does cede the lead investigation authority to the US Coast Guard as Panama did in the Carnival Spendor fire. The Coast Guard did make the final report public but it took about a year. I contrast, there was never any public report released about the Carnival Triumph fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare PaulMCO Posted December 28, 2014 #7 Share Posted December 28, 2014 I would have assumed (been confident) Oceania would have taken all due care to avoid the ship catching on fire in the first place, so, I do not share your confidence and would prefer data regarding the repair and corrective action. Folks were "surprised" to return to their ship and find it on fire, the Amazon Allure folks were "surprised" to find their cruise cancelled, and the world cruise folks were "surprised" to find they were truncated and needed to find their way to Singapore. I am booked on Insignia later this year and do not like "surprises." +1 definitely agree. Do not like surprises and wonder if there are few more surprises to the saga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypercafe Posted December 28, 2014 #8 Share Posted December 28, 2014 (edited) They might not have to dry dock the ship to fix it, depends on what happened. I was on NCL Spirit when it blew a diesel engine on one gen set. Ship stayed in service for a time on remaining three. They had to change the whole engine which took around six months to be built and come from Germany. The ship was drydocked and a whole was cut in the bottom to make the switch. I bet they are just waiting for parts to be made and when all is ready will move the ship. The Spirit was done in in the US. After Carvinal had the problem of a dead ship at sea I think the fitted their ships with large emergency gen sets that can power the ship and move it very slowly. I guess Oceania did not due the same or some major control systems were disabled Sent from my XT1032 using Forums mobile app Edited December 28, 2014 by hypercafe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globevest Posted December 28, 2014 #9 Share Posted December 28, 2014 "Folks were "surprised" to return to their ship and find it on fire," Eh! Not so...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelcat2 Posted December 28, 2014 #10 Share Posted December 28, 2014 If there was a way to know in advance that this would occur, it obviously would have been fixed. It sounds like this is the third ship of its type to have similar fires. This is something that needs to be looked at on the remaining Princess, Azamara and Oceania "R" ships. For better or worse, there are "surprises" in the cruising world on a daily basis. Ports are missed due to weather, illness (Ebola), political unrest, etc. A couple of cruise lines are becoming known for having cruises cancelled when they have a charter. I have confidence in Oceania and their immediate parent company and believe that they are giving customers the best information that is available right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare LHT28 Posted December 28, 2014 #11 Share Posted December 28, 2014 (edited) I would have assumed (been confident) Oceania would have taken all due care to avoid the ship catching on fire in the first place, Sounds like you are saying this was a planned event :eek: If you are really concerned I would cancel the cruise while you can just incase there are other "surprises" or planned catastrophic events Sometimes accidents just happen Edited December 28, 2014 by LHT28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypercafe Posted December 28, 2014 #12 Share Posted December 28, 2014 If you have ever had any repairs or major construction done you know the first time predication can really change as the work goes on so I would expect the next change to plan, if there is any, would be the time frame. Sent from my XT1032 using Forums mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jancruz Posted December 28, 2014 #13 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Sounds like you are saying this was a planned event :eek: If you are really concerned I would cancel the cruise while you can just incase there are other "surprises" or planned catastrophic events Sometimes accidents just happen +1 Jancruz1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwgreenlee Posted December 28, 2014 Author #14 Share Posted December 28, 2014 They might not have to dry dock the ship to fix it, depends on what happened. I was on NCL Spirit when it blew a diesel engine on one gen set. Ship stayed in service for a time on remaining three. They had to change the whole engine which took around six months to be built and come from Germany. The ship was drydocked and a whole was cut in the bottom to make the switch. I bet they are just waiting for parts to be made and when all is ready will move the ship. The Spirit was done in in the US. After Carvinal had the problem of a dead ship at sea I think the fitted their ships with large emergency gen sets that can power the ship and move it very slowly. I guess Oceania did not due the same or some major control systems were disabled Sent from my XT1032 using Forums mobile app Oceania reported in the cancellation letter that they were putting the ship in dry-dock - that does not mean it is true - there is a shortage of accurate information here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwgreenlee Posted December 28, 2014 Author #15 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Sounds like you are saying this was a planned event :eek: If you are really concerned I would cancel the cruise while you can just incase there are other "surprises" or planned catastrophic events Sometimes accidents just happen First of all I did not say - or sound like - it was a planned event. That is a false and inflammatory statement. Second, accidents do happen but it is critical that they are investigated in an open, transparent and truthful way. That way, lessons can be learned and lives saved in the future. The lessons learned in the US Coast Guard investigation of the Carnival Splendor fire lead to recommendations that were fully adopted by Carnival and to a lesser extent by the cruise industry as a whole - as well as changes to how the US Coast Guard conducts Port State inspections of foreign flag cruise ships. These changes make Carnival, the cruise industry as a whole, and all ships embarking passengers in US Ports much safer. Similar reports on the Star Princess fire by the UK Department of Transport, Marine Investigative Branch and the Bahamas Maritime Authority, Grandeur of the Seas fire investigation have also made the seas safer for all. The public information shared by Oceania has been limited and is the source of frustration of many booked passengers. The only public information shared by Oceania's new owners - NCL Holdings - is a detailed assessment of the impact of the Insignia fire on the stock value of NCL Holdings. I do not plan to cancel my Insignia cruise but I would like to act on facts and information - not faith or surprises. Additionally, safety is the responsibility of everyone who sets foot on a ship, airplane, etc. I really started this thread just to see if there was more information on the repair process. I find it surprising that I have to defend that simple request for information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buggins0402 Posted December 28, 2014 #16 Share Posted December 28, 2014 there is a shortage of accurate information here And, an abundance of speculation:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwgreenlee Posted December 28, 2014 Author #17 Share Posted December 28, 2014 If you have ever had any repairs or major construction done you know the first time predication can really change as the work goes on so I would expect the next change to plan, if there is any, would be the time frame. Sent from my XT1032 using Forums mobile app I would agree that the repair time is generous - but some updates would be nice and something of a confidence builder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypercafe Posted December 28, 2014 #18 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Oceania reported in the cancellation letter that they were putting the ship in dry-dock - that does not mean it is true - there is a shortage of accurate information here There is very little info here that is 100% as most or all of us do not know what really happened expect there was a engine room fire and the ship is now dead. My remarks are from a arm chair observer as are most. To think or say this was somehow a planned event is really plane nuts. This is a waite and see event as things unfold and to tell the truth if I had money down on a cruise on this ship I would take the money and run. Sent from my SM-T320 using Forums mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globevest Posted December 28, 2014 #19 Share Posted December 28, 2014 I would agree that the repair time is generous - but some updates would be nice and something of a confidence builder. Eh! again.....How can you state as fact that the repair time is generous? You don't know What they have to repair...it has not been stated. I agree that there is little information from 'O'....but let's stop making things up. Another issue.....let's stop implying/suggesting that the Insignia's fire is the same as other R ship fires. It may be and it could be for a totally different reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelcat2 Posted December 28, 2014 #20 Share Posted December 28, 2014 The Insignia will likely be sailing somewhere in the world when the investigation reports come out. IMO, most people are not looking for a daily or even weekly updates. Oceania has come out with an expected sail date for the Insignia and they will probably have an update by the end of January or early February to advise passengers and the public whether or not the completion date is on schedule. Frequent updates can be misleading. For anyone who has watched home renovations on the DIY network, things happen that make it look like they will never meet the deadline but they usually do. This was a tragic event that affected many people. IMO, Oceania's parent company (PCH) is doing everything within their power to get the ship back in the water and sailing safely around the world. When they have something to say - they will say it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare LHT28 Posted December 28, 2014 #21 Share Posted December 28, 2014 First of all I did not say - or sound like - it was a planned event. That is a false and inflammatory statement. Your statement implied Oceania did not take due care to prevent the fire ..do you have proof of such ? Yes sounds inflammatory to me It is a wait and see situation It could be just an improper use of the term "dry Dock" usually they take the ship into wet dock .. as in still in the water while work is done or they may just repair her as she sits In time all will be revealed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwgreenlee Posted December 28, 2014 Author #22 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Eh! again.....How can you state as fact that the repair time is generous? You don't know What they have to repair...it has not been stated. I agree that there is little information from 'O'....but let's stop making things up. Another issue.....let's stop implying/suggesting that the Insignia's fire is the same as other R ship fires. It may be and it could be for a totally different reason. You are right about the generous statement. Most cruise ship drydocks last only 3-4 weeks but there are unknowns here. Oceania, NCL Holdings, or whoever is running the show, could just clear things up by telling what is going on - not required but it would help the confidence of the booked folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallydave Posted December 28, 2014 #23 Share Posted December 28, 2014 This was a tragic event that affected many people. IMO, Oceania's parent company (PCH) is doing everything within their power to get the ship back in the water and sailing safely around the world. When they have something to say - they will say it. Still in denial??? While the "parent company" of Oceania and Regent may still technically be PCH, the Shared Services Division of NCLH is responsible for all shipboard operations of Oceania, Regent and NCL. Your "Leader" does not have any responsibility for the refurbishment of Insignia. Checkout http://www.nclhltd.com/leadership-team.cfm to see who is responsible for what. Expect NCLH will be the company saying anything about the tragedy thru their Shared Services Division under Michael Flesch Executive Vice President, Shipboard Operations Norwegian Cruise Line, Oceania Cruises and Regent Seven Seas Cruises which is responsible for all aspects of shipboard operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwgreenlee Posted December 28, 2014 Author #24 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Your statement implied Oceania did not take due care to prevent the fire ..do you have proof of such ? Yes sounds inflammatory to me It is a wait and see situation It could be just an improper use of the term "dry Dock" usually they take the ship into wet dock .. as in still in the water while work is done or they may just repair her as she sits In time all will be revealed You are correct - it is my expectation that any cruise line I travel on takes all due care to prevent fires - anything more than 0 fires is unaccceptable and requires preventive and corrective action. The point I was taking exception to was the "intentional" statement - there is no reason to think that. I agree they may have used the term drydock in error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwgreenlee Posted December 28, 2014 Author #25 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Still in denial??? While the "parent company" of Oceania and Regent may still technically be PCH, the Shared Services Division of NCLH is responsible for all shipboard operations of Oceania, Regent and NCL. Your "Leader" does not have any responsibility for the refurbishment of Insignia. Checkout http://www.nclhltd.com/leadership-team.cfm to see who is responsible for what. Expect NCLH will be the company saying anything about the tragedy thru their Shared Services Division under Michael Flesch Executive Vice President, Shipboard Operations Norwegian Cruise Line, Oceania Cruises and Regent Seven Seas Cruises which is responsible for all aspects of shipboard operations. Hi Dave, I started with open mind about how NCL Holdings will work to preserve the "brand identity" of Oceania. I was a frequent traveler on Princess when Carnival acquired P&O and Princess. I am pleased to say that I think Princess actually improved particularly in the area of port access and I like the NCL brand - but I digress. I agree the creation of the "shared services" at the NCL Holdings Executive and Senior vice-president levels is not a good sign for the Oceania brand. I am also concerned that the only statement made by NCL Holdings about Insignia was about the impact to stock values. Then we come to the lack of information. I could begin to worry. R/Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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