Gratuities

[Ksimpson76]

Of course the few dollars is meaningless. It is calling this increase a form of inflation. Using your example of the price of things in your time, which I guess was the 20's, the price of a drink was (to use a term you might have used) two bits. Now the price of the drink is $10. The amount of the tip has thus increased to account for inflation. To raise the minimum gratuity percentage also would mean the compensation has out paced the inflation amount.

 

I don't know what the gratuity percentage was when you were buying drinks in the 20's but when I started it was 12-15% (as a minimum). If the minimum is now 18% and increases as a device for increased compensation then at some point it would hit 100%. It might not be until I am as old as you but it would be mathematically guaranteed.

 

Mark290, I am 38. I just needed to use a longer inflation example to compensate for your ridiculous exaggeration of an example.

[3dog]

The point was more that prices go up so peoples' pay must increase. Sometimes they will increase the cost of items, sometimes they will give raises. 3% increase in gratuities is like giving them a raise without having to increase pricing directly.

 

If the point is that people's pay must increase as prices go up, attaching their wage as a percentage of the sale causes their pay to go up automatically with the prices, so the point is met. Changing the percentage as a wage increase either suggests the pricing and/or the wage structure is needs re-evaluation.

 

It will never be 100% gratuity so stop exaggerating the point. But to counter your point on inflation, I am sure you still make .25 per hour; or has your pay gone up since the 20's?

 

It is not obvious to me that it "will never be 100%". It was once very generous to get a 10% tip, now 30% or more is not only common, it is often expected. It could very well reach 100% one day. And the point that the poster was making, is if wage increase is always accomplished by increasing the percentage of the sale, by this definition it will certainly reach 100% (and more).

 

Matching inflation in this scenario isn't relevant, as this is always achieved if wage is directly proportional to prices.

[jakenashleysmom]

Also consider for every one of us who is comfortable with tips increasing, there is a "gratuity remover" on board that we have to make up for so it evens out in the long run. 😕

 

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[Paul65]

But to counter your point on inflation, I am sure you still make .25 per hour; or has your pay gone up since the 20's?

The point is pricing goes up, peoples' salaries must go up. There areseveral ways it can happen and increasing gratuities is sometimes one of the ways.

 

I don't think that's a very good counter to the point on inflation. As costs and wages go up, tipping percentages don't necessarily need to rise with them.

 

I don't know what the actual prices for a meal out were in the 1920s, but lets say you could dine out at a nice place for $5. If you paid a 15% tip on that, it would have been 75 cents. Now, if it costs so $50 for the same meal, a 15% tip is $7.50. That was the point on inflation - as prices go up, tips go up without changing the percentage.

[Big_G]

All hard workers on cruise ships deserve a wage increase. Perhaps the company that employs them should give them one, especially when they are earning record breaking profits. I don't feel anyone on a cruise ship is overpaid to start with. I feel they all work hard to earn the gratuities they are given. What a shame their employers do not feel the same.

 

Let's be real. You're gonna' pay for it whether it's an increase in tip or increase in wage. :rolleyes:

[Ksimpson76]

I don't think that's a very good counter to the point on inflation. As costs and wages go up, tipping percentages don't necessarily need to rise with them.

 

I don't know what the actual prices for a meal out were in the 1920s, but lets say you could dine out at a nice place for $5. If you paid a 15% tip on that, it would have been 75 cents. Now, if it costs so $50 for the same meal, a 15% tip is $7.50. That was the point on inflation - as prices go up, tips go up without changing the percentage.

 

I agree. But while some areas of life follow inflation to scale, some go up faster, college tuition; and some even go up slower, corn. If RCCL is increasing the grats I am sure their reasoning is to give those employees more money, otherwise it makes no sense.

[LMaxwell]

Let's be real. You're gonna' pay for it whether it's an increase in tip or increase in wage. :rolleyes:

 

Why are you rolling your eyes at me? I happen to agree. We (the guests) are going to pay one way or the other. The company isn't. Charging a higher gratuity certainly isn't costing RCI anything in terms of profitability. I bet gratuity is increasing because when it came time for contracts to be renegotiated RCI said no way to actually increasing wages but said "Look, we will get you something, it just won't come from our end".

[mark290]

Mark290, I am 38. I just needed to use a longer inflation example to compensate for your ridiculous exaggeration of an example.

 

I had a pretty good idea you weren't in your 90's. Call it ridiculous if

you want but according to your rationale it would be a certainty.

 

Since you are ok with wages increasing by increasing the gratuity percentage

what would be a number that you wouldn't deem ridiculous ? Maybe 1% a year ? So in six years you will be tipping a minimum of 24% and your $10 drink will also have gone up to what, $13 ? The minimum amount of gratuity will have gone up by over 50%. I'm sure everybody in the service industry that receives tips loves your economic plan.

[LMaxwell]

I had a pretty good idea you weren't in your 90's. Call it ridiculous if

you want but according to your rationale it would be a certainty.

 

Since you are ok with wages increasing by increasing the gratuity percentage

what would be a number that you wouldn't deem ridiculous ? Maybe 1% a year ? So in six years you will be tipping a minimum of 24% and your $10 drink will also have gone up to what, $13 ? The minimum amount of gratuity will have gone up by over 50%. I'm sure everybody in the service industry that receives tips loves your economic plan.

 

I can't believe that only me, you, and a small handful of others here seems to grasp the concept that inflation is tied to prices and not to gratuities. You are right, if gratuity increases are what is acceptable as a wage increase, on a long enough time line we will see higher and higher gratuity percentages, on top of ever increasing prices (the actual inflation point).

 

Your argument is spot on.

[bluegirlum]

Also consider for every one of us who is comfortable with tips increasing, there is a "gratuity remover" on board that we have to make up for so it evens out in the long run. 😕

 

Sent from my KFTHWI using Forums mobile app

 

What evens out? It's not even if someone is too cheap to pay tips and I pay them.

[Big_G]

Why are you rolling your eyes at me? I happen to agree. We (the guests) are going to pay one way or the other. The company isn't. Charging a higher gratuity certainly isn't costing RCI anything in terms of profitability. I bet gratuity is increasing because when it came time for contracts to be renegotiated RCI said no way to actually increasing wages but said "Look, we will get you something, it just won't come from our end".

 

This is why the eye roll. Obviously it's incorrect because they raised the gratuity.

 

What a shame their employers do not feel the same.

[3dog]

I agree. But while some areas of life follow inflation to scale, some go up faster, college tuition; and some even go up slower, corn. If RCCL is increasing the grats I am sure their reasoning is to give those employees more money, otherwise it makes no sense.

 

While it is true that there is variants in price change, the examples given don't have a "wage as a percentage of price" model, but as an expense of doing business. It is indeed possible that those employees are underpaid, but wage increase will directly affect price, not the other way around.

 

As for RCCL (seems this is happening corporate wide), I suspect it is done for several reasons, including that since it is common in the hospitality industry: they can (I don't really expect them to ever have a gratuity structure that is significantly different than other similar businesses).

[Clipper123]

Non issue to non drinkers. We have no problem with the increase.

 

And you thought you needed to post on this thread why???

[Ksimpson76]

I had a pretty good idea you weren't in your 90's. Call it ridiculous if

you want but according to your rationale it would be a certainty.

 

Since you are ok with wages increasing by increasing the gratuity percentage

what would be a number that you wouldn't deem ridiculous ? Maybe 1% a year ? So in six years you will be tipping a minimum of 24% and your $10 drink will also have gone up to what, $13 ? The minimum amount of gratuity will have gone up by over 50%. I'm sure everybody in the service industry that receives tips loves your economic plan.

 

Once again, I said that raising grats is one way to increase a service industry individual's wages. Others are direct raises or raising the price of the food or drinks. If I said that a grat increase was inflation I mis-spoke. I meant it is a raise for the individuals to compensate for prices in the world going up.

As others have said, this increase might be an online mistake, although I doubt that.

Having worked in the service industry and making $2.13 an hour (which has not changed since the 70's), I know how important tips are to survive.

I will gladly pay the extra 3% and as always tip ontop of that.

This has gotten off topic so this will be my last comments on this matter. Cruise on all

[LMaxwell]

This is why the eye roll. Obviously it's incorrect because they raised the gratuity.

Maybe I'm slow today but I'm not picking up what you are putting down. RCI isn't paying their workers more. They are just charging a higher gratuity to guests and passing it on to workers as a "raise".

[peteukmcr]

I need this increase justifying to me.

 

Examples using beverages prices.

 

Old prices with 15% gratuity - Cocktail $6, gratuity $0.90. Total cost to me $6.90, server receives $0.90

 

Estimated new prices (no prices on menu) with 15% gratuity - Cocktail $7.00, gratuity $1.05 Total cost to me $8.05, server receives $1.05 - I pay more, the server receives more and so does RCI

 

Old prices with 18% gratuity - Cocktail $6, gratuity $1.08. Total cost to me $7.08, server receives $1.08 - I pay more and the server receives more

 

Estimated new prices (no prices on menu) with 18% gratuity - Cocktail $7.00, gratuity $1.26 Total cost to me $8.26, server receives $1.26 - I pay more, the server receives more and so does RCI

 

So let's say over an 'average' 7 day sailing. I purchase 30 beverages, all at the prices above.

 

At the old prices and 15% the cost to me $207, server receives $27

 

At the old prices and 18% the cost to me $212.40, server receives $32.40

 

At estimated new prices and 18%, cost to me $247.80, server receives $37.80

 

I pay more, the server and RCI receive more

 

So as I've asked on previous occasions and nobody has yet been able to explain to my satisfaction why, when prices increase and as a result so does the percentage calculated, is it necessary to increase the percentage multiplier too?

 

When I first visited the US in 1980, tipping suggested for a $20 meal was 10% i.e. $2. Due to inflation this meal may now cost $60, so 10% of that is $6. However, I'm expected/shamed into tipping a minimum now of 15%, so that $60 results in $9. Now I'm told I'm expected to pay 18% which on $60 equates to $10.80. Who is winning on this, certainly not me.

 

Flame retardant suit in place

Edited February 10, 2015 by peteukmcr

[time4u2go]

I can't believe that only me, you, and a small handful of others here seems to grasp the concept that inflation is tied to prices and not to gratuities. You are right, if gratuity increases are what is acceptable as a wage increase, on a long enough time line we will see higher and higher gratuity percentages, on top of ever increasing prices (the actual inflation point).

 

Your argument is spot on.

You can count me in that small handful!

 

I've never understood why some people feel it is necessary or even warranted for the "accepted" tipping rate to ever go up. Tips are based on a percentage of the price of a product or service that ALREADY goes up in price. I'm not sure why that's such a difficult concept to grasp.

Edited February 10, 2015 by time4u2go

[Big_G]

Maybe I'm slow today but I'm not picking up what you are putting down. RCI isn't paying their workers more. They are just charging a higher gratuity to guests and passing it on to workers as a "raise".

 

You just said it. It's a raise. If they gave them an actual wage increase, it would come out of the same pockets...yours and mine. Whether it goes through your cruise fare, the slip you sign at the bar, or the prepaid gratuity on your drink package, it goes through Royal to the server. Your quibbling over terminology.

[peteukmcr]

You can count me in that small handful!

 

I've never understood why some people feel it is necessary or even warranted for the "accepted" tipping rate to ever go up. Tips are based on a percentage of the price of a product or service that ALREADY goes up in price. I'm not sure why that's such a difficult concept to grasp.

Count me in too, I think that's what my long winded example was trying to illustrate

[LMaxwell]

You just said it. It's a raise. If they gave them an actual wage increase, it would come out of the same pockets...yours and mine. Whether it goes through your cruise fare, the slip you sign at the bar, or the prepaid gratuity on your drink package, it goes through Royal to the server. Your quibbling over terminology.

 

We may have to just amicably agree to disagree here. Granting a worker a higher percentage gratuity doesn't actually guarantee them more money. If sales are consistent, the worker makes out. If sales increase, the workers makes out. If sales slip, the worker loses. If the company had agreed to a wage increase the worker would be fairly compensated for their time from the start regardless of the gratuity (as that amount is variable based upon sales).

 

The company doesn't seem to be performing in good faith here, otherwise they would just pay employees more out of their own revenues and not mandate an onus on the guest.

 

Words DO have meanings and I don't accept that the terminology is interchangeable or has the same meanings. I would agree that it ALL comes from the guest in some form. And I still maintain that it is a shame that a company with record breaking profits still won't pay their employees properly. The gratuity pool includes people in the deck crew and laundry. Before mandated automatic gratuities had anyone EVER heard of tipping this staff? NO. Because the ships were registered in Norway and not the Bahamas and they weren't allowed to pay non-guest facing service infrastructure workers off guest tips, they had to pay real guaranteed wages.

 

Hey, listen, I pay my tips. And I put plenty of cash on top of it. You probably do too. I do it because I get good service and I know how hard they work for it. But I'm not under any sort of false impression that the cruise line treats workers in some sort of great fashion. If they could find places more lax about labor laws than the Bahamas, Monrovia, Liberia, and Panama they would fly those flags off their ships. The cruise line has shifted the onus from paying out of corporate revenue to essentially guilting guests into it.

[Big_G]

You can count me in that small handful!

 

I've never understood why some people feel it is necessary or even warranted for the "accepted" tipping rate to ever go up. Tips are based on a percentage of the price of a product or service that ALREADY goes up in price. I'm not sure why that's such a difficult concept to grasp.

 

I don't agree with the inflation theory either but where I'm from 18 percent is customary. I don't know about the rest of the country but if that's generally the same elsewhere in the US, maybe that's why it got bumped up. We always tip on top of the 15 at the bars anyway so I'm not really concerned. I can certainly see where customs differ this will go over like a lead balloon.

[ryano]

Are we even 100% SURE that RCI will pass the extra 3% a long to the bartenders and servers? :o Im kinda skeptical which is my only thing against the 18%.

 

Every drink I get usually included the 15% plus a buck a lot of times so its really no big deal. I WOULD like to think it goes to the crew though.

Edited February 10, 2015 by ryano

[Big_G]

The company doesn't seem to be performing in good faith here, otherwise they would just pay employees more out of their own revenues and not mandate an onus on the guest.

 

 

There's the problem. We're looking at it from two different perspectives and don't get mad when I say this but I don't concern myself with what Royal Caribbean pays their employees. I receive a service and I tip for that service. What goes on between employer and employee is none of my business. My perspective is it would cost me the same whether through increased fare or increased gratuity. I see your point but it's of no concern to me. I just remembered why I never jump into these tipping threads but I guess I got sucked into this one. You're very thoughtful LMaxwell. Happy sailing. ;)

[3dog]

Are we even 100% SURE that RCI will pass the extra 3% a long to the bartenders and servers? :o Im kinda skeptical which is my only thing against the 18%.

 

Every drink I get usually included the 15% plus a buck a lot of times so its really no big deal. I WOULD like to think it goes to the crew though.

 

For the most part we trust that the cruise lines pass gratuities to appropriate crew, but there is no evidence (that I have found) to assure this 100% (there is also no evidence I have found that they don't, either - just some empirical evidence to support they do pass it on).

 

But independent of skepticism, if you consume a product with a gratuity built in, you will still have to pay that gratuity without knowing if the people who provided the service get it all.

[cruzsnooze]

Where is exactly is the breakdown of what amount the server/bartender gets to keep of the gratuity added to the bill. I've read and been told that RCL uses the money for other things and the people who earned the gratuity don't get all of it.

Tipping on cruise ships and else where has gotten out of hand. It's my opinion that the cruise lines need to rethink how they pay their staff without relying on their passengers.