daily service charge

[Ship2shoreCO]

Maybe you should follow your own advice.

 

I think I do follow my own advice. When I have an issue or need clarification, I try to raise it ahead of time if I can and hopefully resolve it before my vacation.

 

What would be the harm in contacting NCL to give them a heads up of what you plan to do regarding the DSC and ask them to document it in your reservation. That way, if the issue comes up on board, you can inform guest services that your reservation is already documented regarding your wish not to pay the DSC.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Ship2shoreCO

[jackson bernard]

Actually, the answer is completely within the contract verbiage. No where in the contract does it say the DSC can be removed for any reason, only adjusted if a service issue cannot be corrected.

 

That's not what the contract says at all. Sorry.

[jackson bernard]

I think I do follow my own advice. When I have an issue or need clarification, I try to raise it ahead of time if I can and hopefully resolve it before my vacation.

 

What would be the harm in contacting NCL to give them a heads up of what you plan to do regarding the DSC and ask them to document it in your reservation. That way, if the issue comes up on board, you can inform guest services that your reservation is already documented regarding your wish not to pay the DSC.

 

Don't worry about it. I like the policy. Have a nice cruise.

[Ship2shoreCO]

Have a nice cruise.

You too.

[Out to sea!]

That's not what the contract says at all. Sorry.

 

Per cruise contract http://test2.ncl.com/sites/default/files/Guest_Ticket_Contract_03_2014.pdf

 

 

© Service Charges: Certain members of Carrier’s crew are compensated by a combination of salary

and incentive programs that are funded in part by the service charge paid by each Guest. The charge ,

which is automatically added to your onboard account and subject to adjustment at your discretion, is

intended to reward service provided in all departments and job categories and is distributed to employees

according to Carrier's evaluation of job performance. A portion of the service charge collected by Carrier

is also used for fleet-wide crew welfare programs.

 

 

As you can see, there is no wording that even alludes to removal of the DSC.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Out to sea!

[LMaxwell]

Per cruise contract http://test2.ncl.com/sites/default/files/Guest_Ticket_Contract_03_2014.pdf

 

 

© Service Charges: Certain members of Carrier’s crew are compensated by a combination of salary

and incentive programs that are funded in part by the service charge paid by each Guest. The charge ,

which is automatically added to your onboard account and subject to adjustment at your discretion, is

intended to reward service provided in all departments and job categories and is distributed to employees

according to Carrier's evaluation of job performance. A portion of the service charge collected by Carrier

is also used for fleet-wide crew welfare programs.

 

 

As you can see, there is no wording that even alludes to removal of the DSC.

Subject to adjustment at your discretion seems like just that

[sparks1093]

Subject to adjustment at your discretion seems like just that

 

Adjustment does not mean removal and certainly not removal because one disagrees with the service charge.

[LMaxwell]

Adjustment does not mean removal and certainly not removal because one disagrees with the service charge.

Adjustment at discretion means whatever amount the guest chooses. It does not preclude adjusting to zero.

[ColinIllinois]

Edited: Nevermind.

Edited February 27, 2015 by ColinIllinois

[sundercruiser]

No where in the contract does it say the DSC can be removed for any reason, only adjusted if a service issue cannot be corrected.

 

Do you generally make stuff up in order to "win" arguments?

 

The language in the Contract, which you later posted, is CRYSTAL CLEAR. Pax have the absolute discretion to adjust the service charge. NOWHERE in the Contract is there anything about "only if a service issue cannot be corrected."

[triptolemus]

I have said before the people that take the DSC off and tip on their own are severe Narcissists who want to be the big person and say look at me, I have a lot of cash, here it is, good boy and now tell me how awesome I am, i am awesome

 

Except the actual plan is to tip far less than the DSC. Here on cruise critic, they tip 4x the DSC. Once on the ship, it's $3 cash to the MDR server each night. Maybe the room steward gets a $20 unless they can slip out the last morning without running into them.

 

We know how this story actually goes. There is no suitcase full of cash.

[SuiteCruiser]

Let me ask you a question before I answer yours. Before DSC and Automatically added gratuities the cruise lines always provided a break down of per diem suggestions for tips, usually to wait staff, room steward (or stewardess) as well as the head waiter. The cruise line did not get involved and you handed those people cash, above, below, or at the suggested rate.

 

Do you mean to tell me that the maintenance crew, laundry crew, dishwashers and cooks all worked for free then? No. Of course not. They were paid proper wages just like in every other industry. Do I feel like someone fixing a broken pipe is providing ME a service? No. I do not feel that way. That is not an amenity or feature of my vacation. They are taking care of a capital asset that is NCL's, repairs and maintenance which must be done for normal operations.

 

When we go to dinner we tip those that serve us, name the wait staff, and from time to time a restaurant may have a valet or a coat check person. We interact with these people and receive services from them. But the restaurant needs to wash dishes, cook food, and throw out trash. Those are services required to make the restuarant run. They do not interact with me and I do not believe they should be tipped. They should be paid proper wages. That said, we also always reserve the right to tip at our discretion. That means not all servers get the same tip from us. Lousy servers get a "base" tip, great servers get wonderful tips. That is exactly how the service industry works. I don't tip my mailman, the cable guy, the plumber...etc. I pay for those services and they are part of the infrastructure of life. It would be a crying shame if they were made to earn a living off of a tip instead of a wage.

 

Hopefully this illustrates my point a bit more clearly.

 

Haven't finished the thread yet, but when that was the case, the cruise fares were much, much higher than they are today. Even with the DSC paid, you are paying less to the cruise line. My first cruise in 1983 was $1200 (with air) per person for 4 people in an inside cabin. Then we tipped the steward and the waiter on top of that. The structure is different. Why not follow the way it's set out? It's just like people from England coming over and not tipping their wait staff. Just because it's not done there, doesn't mean you don't have to do it over here.

Edited February 27, 2015 by SuiteCruiser

[hpecorari]

Do you generally make stuff up in order to "win" arguments?

 

The language in the Contract, which you later posted, is CRYSTAL CLEAR. Pax have the absolute discretion to adjust the service charge. NOWHERE in the Contract is there anything about "only if a service issue cannot be corrected."

 

http://www.ncl.com/faq%2523service-charge

 

"If I cancel my cruise are the service charges refundable?

 

Yes! The service charges are 100% refundable.

 

If there is a service issue can the service charges be adjusted on board?

 

Guest satisfaction is the highest priority at Norwegian Cruise Line. We have structured a guest satisfaction program designed to handle any concerns about service or on-board product quickly and efficiently. However, in the event a service issue should arise during your cruise please let our on-board guest services desk staff know right away, so that we can address these in a timely manner. It is our goal to reach a satisfactory solution to any issue when it happens and make sure our guests can focus on enjoying their cruise. Should your concerns not be met with satisfaction you can adjust the charges."

 

Harriet

[sundercruiser]

http://www.ncl.com/faq%2523service-charge

 

"If I cancel my cruise are the service charges refundable?

 

Yes! The service charges are 100% refundable.

 

If there is a service issue can the service charges be adjusted on board?

 

Guest satisfaction is the highest priority at Norwegian Cruise Line. We have structured a guest satisfaction program designed to handle any concerns about service or on-board product quickly and efficiently. However, in the event a service issue should arise during your cruise please let our on-board guest services desk staff know right away, so that we can address these in a timely manner. It is our goal to reach a satisfactory solution to any issue when it happens and make sure our guests can focus on enjoying their cruise. Should your concerns not be met with satisfaction you can adjust the charges."

 

Harriet

 

This FAQ provides an answer to the stated question. So yes, passengers can adjust DSC should they have a problem with onboard service that can't be resolved by CS desk.

 

However, per the Contract, passengers ALSO retain the right to adjust DSC at their discretion (which, up thread posts from many notwithstanding, DOES mean to zero, or for ANY reason). This FAQ just outlines one of an infinitude of customer "discretions" that could lead to them wanting to adjust DSC. In no way should you (or others) believe that this FAQ language either supersedes that in the Contract, or in any way limits passenger rights outlined therein.

[KeithJenner]

This FAQ provides an answer to the stated question. So yes, passengers can adjust DSC should they have a problem with onboard service that can't be resolved by CS desk.

 

However, per the Contract, passengers ALSO retain the right to adjust DSC at their discretion (which, up thread posts from many notwithstanding, DOES mean to zero, or for ANY reason). This FAQ just outlines one of an infinitude of customer "discretions" that could lead to them wanting to adjust DSC. In no way should you (or others) believe that this FAQ language either supersedes that in the Contract, or in any way limits passenger rights outlined therein.

 

I would agree with this.

 

I was asking for clarification on this, because I had only been able to find what the FAQ's say on the US site, and the Guest Contract does appear to confirm that you can alter the DSC for other reasons.

 

Whether or not you should do that is of course another matter. :)

 

Interestingly (or not, depending on your view), this doesn't appear to be the case for everyone. I checked the documentation that we get in the UK. This is what is stated on our cruise confirmation:

 

Service Charges:

On all NCL ships, payment of a fixed service charge is required. A fixed service charge of U.S. $12 per person, per day will be added to the on-board account of all guests over 3 years; there is no charge for children under the age of three.

Now to make things even easier, guests can choose to prepay their service charge here in the UK before they travel. This will be added to your holiday price at the time of booking and shown separately on the confirmation invoice. If you do not wish to pay it this way, you must tell us at the time of booking or at any time up to two weeks prior to departure and we will arrange for the charge to be added to your onboard account for payment at the end of the cruise."

 

That seems fairly clear to me. Payment is "required" and there is no reference to reducing it, just the option to prepay or not. The booking conditions are also referred to, and from these:

 

If you have any concerns about the service you receive during your cruise, please let our Guest Services Desk staff know right away, so we can address any issues in a timely manner. In the unlikely event that we can’t resolve your issue, you can have the service charge adjusted on board unless this has been pre-paid. Where your service charge has been pre-paid before departure, refunds are not available onboard and you must apply for a refund, if applicable, after your return home by writing to our Guest Relations department.

 

There doesn't seem to be any other statement about altering the charge anywhere else, except that at one point it is referred to as a "discretionary service charge". However, my reading of our conditions does suggest that for us a service issue is the only reason allowed. That certainly goes against what a number of people believe and, as I understand it, the real world situation where people have requested removal.

 

One other point, on those booking conditions, it does state that "Service charges may be subject to change". I know some people questioned NCL's right to increase the charges after booking. That is clearly covered for those of us in the UK.

Edited February 27, 2015 by KeithJenner

[NLH Arizona]

People are going to do what they want and no matter what anyone says, they are not going to change their minds.

 

In the "olden" days, many skipped out on tipping the crew by not showing up the last night. Now a days, they either reduce or remove the DSC and either stiff the crew by not tipping anything or tipping just certain individuals. Even though many of us don't understand this type of behavior, each individual person can make up their own mind what they want to do. People should just concentrate on what they are doing and ignore those that ask the question if the DSC can be reduced or removed and just tell them to ask NCL for the answer and have no further discussions with them, because you are just doing what they want; you are getting upset about something they have already decided to do.

[zqvol]

Let me ask you a question before I answer yours. Before DSC and Automatically added gratuities the cruise lines always provided a break down of per diem suggestions for tips, usually to wait staff, room steward (or stewardess) as well as the head waiter. The cruise line did not get involved and you handed those people cash, above, below, or at the suggested rate.

 

Do you mean to tell me that the maintenance crew, laundry crew, dishwashers and cooks all worked for free then? No. Of course not. They were paid proper wages just like in every other industry. Do I feel like someone fixing a broken pipe is providing ME a service? No. I do not feel that way. That is not an amenity or feature of my vacation. They are taking care of a capital asset that is NCL's, repairs and maintenance which must be done for normal operations.

 

When we go to dinner we tip those that serve us, name the wait staff, and from time to time a restaurant may have a valet or a coat check person. We interact with these people and receive services from them. But the restaurant needs to wash dishes, cook food, and throw out trash. Those are services required to make the restuarant run. They do not interact with me and I do not believe they should be tipped. They should be paid proper wages. That said, we also always reserve the right to tip at our discretion. That means not all servers get the same tip from us. Lousy servers get a "base" tip, great servers get wonderful tips. That is exactly how the service industry works. I don't tip my mailman, the cable guy, the plumber...etc. I pay for those services and they are part of the infrastructure of life. It would be a crying shame if they were made to earn a living off of a tip instead of a wage.

 

Hopefully this illustrates my point a bit more clearly.

 

Clearly you have never worked in the service industry (well I guess we could have figured that out from your screen name.) Are you aware that in land based restaurants that the servers are required to provide a certain percentage of their tips to the back waiters, the bus boys, the bar tenders, and sometimes even the dish washers. In hotels the cleaning people have to give a percentage to the laundry staff. So in spite of what you think, even on land, you do not control who gets your gratuity.

 

Before the lines put in the daily service charge all of the staff who received gratuities were required to share them with the behind the scenes people. It has always been that way. None of the DSC goes to maintenance people, it all goes to people who are in the hotel division, which does not include the people who are responsible for keeping the ship running.

 

Hopefully this enlightens you but based on your bourgeois attitude I doubt that anything is going to make you understand how the service industry works. Thank goodness the staff know who removes the DSC and they are wise enough to distribute your gratuity to the people that it goes to. I really suggest that instead of sailing a mass market line you move to an all inclusive luxury line where gratuities are not required (of course you pay about $500 pp/pd).

 

Have a good day.

Edited February 27, 2015 by zqvol

[Ship2shoreCO]

Has anyone successfully gotten guest services to remove the DSC entirely? My experience with guest services is that I can't even get small charges taken off without a big fight, even when I have a clear and convincing case. Guest services staff seem to be trained very well in the art of politely saying no to everything.

[zqvol]

Has anyone successfully gotten guest services to remove the DSC entirely? My experience with guest services is that I can't even get small charges taken off without a big fight, even when I have a clear and convincing case. Guest services staff seem to be trained very well in the art of politely saying no to everything.

 

I have never heard anyone prove that they have had it removed, and I personally don't think it happens, but who really knows.

 

I would love to see someone post their final statement showing it missing.

[bobstheboy]

Why the obsession with wanting to know what other people do with DSC or anything else ?

[academytim]

What?

 

Which part did you not understand?

[KeithJenner]

I would love to see someone post their final statement showing it missing.

 

That wouldn't tell you anything. I have got lots of final statements which don't include the DSC at all, but I've never removed it.

 

For the record, I have no reason to doubt people who say that they have had it removed.

 

I know of one person who has reported seeing other people removing their charge with little or no debate whilst she was battling to get incorrect charges removed from their bill. I have met that person and have no reason to disbelieve her.

[Love my butler]

No, a lot of people simply tip. The DSC is an onboard service charge.

 

Harriet

 

Wrong. NCL and even the mods on these boards acknowledge the Discretionary Service Charge is a/the tip.

[hpecorari]

 

However, per the Contract, passengers ALSO retain the right to adjust DSC at their discretion

 

Where does it say that? I've been looking and can't find it.

 

Harriet

[Kingofwylietx]

People are going to do what they want and no matter what anyone says, they are not going to change their minds.

 

........ you are just doing what they want; you are getting upset about something they have already decided to do.

 

 

@NHL Arizona:

 

I agree with you. They simply want to argue the point and try to gain support for their tasteless choice to stiff the crew. I actually dislike the way we have a separate charge to support crew pay, but it is our reality. The charge should just be included in the fare. If enough people keep this up, it will eventually have to be included....then they will have no choice (which is fine with me, since I pay it anyways).

 

Personally, I find it classless and selfish to punish the crew for what an industry has standardized as their normal operating procedures. All the times someone tries to justify this behavior, it always works out the same.....20 people say it is unethical and 2 people say it can technically be done. If they really wanted to do something nice, they would pay the DSC and carry extra cash for add'l tipping....but it is quite clear they really just want to hand cash to someone to look like big shots (and hope the receiver assumes that this cash is on top of the DSC). They need to stroke their own ego, but it is so fragile that they also require our approval and will fight tooth and nail to try to prove it is the right thing to do....all the while, we all know they are just being cheap.

 

You can't change their mind, don't even try. I'm not even going to address them, as I can carry a better conversation with a coat rack. Think of it as a personality defect, or maybe they were not raised to properly. In either case, the result is them looking for a way to manipulate the system for their own personal gain (at the expense of the crew).