Held hostage in Livorno port!!

[texancruzer]

Thx for your help everyone

 

I should have been clearer....ncl has an excursion it's called Florence and pisa on your own for 129$ pp. it says transfer by motor coach and you get dropped off in each place to explore on your own.

 

I'm just wondering would it be less hassle to do it this way even though it's more expensive? Has anyone done this excursion recently.

 

Or is manageable to do both places on my own and make it back to the ship at least an hr before it departs?

 

I had no prob finding my way around Rome but I had a hotel over there. So that's why I'm debating on what I should do. Thx for any advice you have! Going in August if that makes a difference.

 

We used this tour when we went on Royal Caribbean. Different cruise line - same tour. They all use the same local tour companies……

 

We enjoyed our day on this ship tour. Altho we don't usually do ship tours this one seemed like a good fit. I know a lot of people do these two places on their own but this made it SO easy…… you get free time in each place so it really is basically a bus ride with some info thrown in by the guide.

 

We got back to the ship late - but of course it waited for us. It was a long day but worth it. Loved Florence !!!!

[michelle028]

We used this tour when we went on Royal Caribbean. Different cruise line - same tour. They all use the same local tour companies……

 

We enjoyed our day on this ship tour. Altho we don't usually do ship tours this one seemed like a good fit. I know a lot of people do these two places on their own but this made it SO easy…… you get free time in each place so it really is basically a bus ride with some info thrown in by the guide.

 

We got back to the ship late - but of course it waited for us. It was a long day but worth it. Loved Florence !!!!

 

 

Thx for info, if you take the ship tour do you still have to pay the 12 euro fee to leave port or is it included in the cost of the tour?

[texancruzer]

Thx for info, if you take the ship tour do you still have to pay the 12 euro fee to leave port or is it included in the cost of the tour?

 

No. You pay for the tour and thats it.

[cle-guy]

I don't buy the analogy "it's like paying to use the jet bridge at the airport"

 

No, to me it's more like Paying a taxi driver to take me from the Airport where I landed (port where we docked) to whatever it is that I wanted to see where ever it was that I landed (docked). I got transported by the ship, used the ship's gangway (jetway) to get on and off of it, was able to use the ships' amenities at the pier - juice, cold towels, seating area etc. (Airlines lounges an seating areas), but once I want to wander beyond the amenities offered by the ship (airport) I expect to pay for additional services.

 

I don't expect my taxi fare to be included in my airfare, so why would I expect it included in my cruise fare, especially if I[ one who doesn't use ports too often.

Edited April 6, 2015 by cle-guy

[John Bull]

I don't buy the analogy "it's like paying to use the jet bridge at the airport"

 

No, to me it's more like Paying a taxi driver to take me from the Airport where I landed to whatever it is that I wanted to see where ever it was that I landed

 

I don't expect my taxi fare to be included in my airfare, so why would I expect it included in my cruise fare, especially if I[ one who doesn't use ports too often.

 

No, the analogy is more like you're not allowed to walk out of the airport or take other transportation, you have to take that operator's taxi / bus from the airport, and the driver will only drop you at a place of his choosing - even if that's in a different direction to your chosen destination. He'll also charge you a rip-off price because you have no option. That is the situation at Livorno - with respect, you've clearly not been there or you'd understand the frustration on this thread.

 

BTW, returning to Livorno on the train one time I met a crowd of NCL passengers outside Livorno station, waiting for a shuttle back to their ship. If only my cruise line & others offered a (ok, payable, no problem) shuttle to the station, where most independents want to go rather than a mile & a half away in Livorno town centre, perhaps there wouldn't be so much angst. Cruise lines know that the attractions from this port are Florence & Pisa, not the nondescript town centre of Livorno.

 

JB :)

[insanemagnet]

not the nondescript town centre of Livorno.

 

Actually I quite liked Livorno...

Edited April 6, 2015 by insanemagnet

[cle-guy]

No, the analogy is more like you're not allowed to walk out of the airport or take other transportation, you have to take that operator's taxi / bus from the airport, and the driver will only drop you at a place of his choosing - even if that's in a different direction to your chosen destination. He'll also charge you a rip-off price because you have no option. That is the situation at Livorno - with respect, you've clearly not been there or you'd understand the frustration on this thread.

JB :)

 

Never been to livorno, but been to many ports where there is a shuttle bus to take from ship to port exit, and admittedly none REQUIRED payment, all had tip jars and received a tip.

 

Cruising is not like flying, it has different logistical concerns and challenges.

 

In this case to park a ship in Livorno, in order to get to Pisa and Florence, as that's where a ship will fit to park. Other option, forgo visits to Pisa and Florence and don't pay the fee.

 

There are lots of international airports even that require a CASH payment at the airport when departing certain countries, it's not an anomaly to the port of Livorno and Crusie Ships.

 

Also when flying, all passengers do pay a fee to use the airport facilities, it's just that logistically 100% of airplane passengers use the port facilities, so its tacked on to everyone's fare rather than collected only from those who traverse the airport area.

 

And you'd be hard pressed to find any airport in a large city that anyone could actually simply walk out the front door and walk off to their destination. Nearly every person exiting an airport door is getting into some sort of paid transit, unless using a hotel shuttle or had self-parked. In Livorno, if you schedule in advance your tours with approved and registered guides, or schedule excursions with the cruise line, the fees are included in the excursion fares.

 

In Livorno as a port stop, not everyone chooses to leave the ship, so in this case, they only charge those people who wish to leave the ship (or it seems, leave then come back). Seems 100% fair to me.

Edited April 6, 2015 by cle-guy

[Level six]

No, the analogy is more like you're not allowed to walk out of the airport or take other transportation, you have to take that operator's taxi / bus from the airport, and the driver will only drop you at a place of his choosing - even if that's in a different direction to your chosen destination. He'll also charge you a rip-off price because you have no option. That is the situation at Livorno - with respect, you've clearly not been there or you'd understand the frustration on this thread.

 

BTW, returning to Livorno on the train one time I met a crowd of NCL passengers outside Livorno station, waiting for a shuttle back to their ship. If only my cruise line & others offered a (ok, payable, no problem) shuttle to the station, where most independents want to go rather than a mile & a half away in Livorno town centre, perhaps there wouldn't be so much angst. Cruise lines know that the attractions from this port are Florence & Pisa, not the nondescript town centre of Livorno.

 

JB :)

 

Exactly, you have a great way of explaining things John Bull. I am almost sorry this thread got booted up because people really don't understand at all unless they have been there. Plus, the only reason I even wrote this thread was to let people know about the fee, not for it to be debated on and on about the wording I may or may not have used. It was not meant for that and I cannot believe that every thing has been picked apart word for word.

Plus, at every airport I have been to, I have the option of picking what form of transportation I want, including walking. If I got to JFK and decided to walk to NYC, I could. It would not be practical(20 + miles), but I am able to do so if I wish...........that is the point..........I have a choice.

It is almost laughable at this point. Take what you want from this thread.

[scottbee]

I don't buy the analogy "it's like paying to use the jet bridge at the airport"

 

No, to me it's more like Paying a taxi driver to take me from the Airport where I landed (port where we docked) to whatever it is that I wanted to see where ever it was that I landed (docked). I got transported by the ship, used the ship's gangway (jetway) to get on and off of it, was able to use the ships' amenities at the pier - juice, cold towels, seating area etc. (Airlines lounges an seating areas), but once I want to wander beyond the amenities offered by the ship (airport) I expect to pay for additional services.

 

I don't expect my taxi fare to be included in my airfare, so why would I expect it included in my cruise fare, especially if I[ one who doesn't use ports too often.

 

It's exactly like having to pay to use the jet bridge, there are no other options. To leave the port area at Livorno you MUST

1) Be part of a [overpriced] tour

2) Use the cruise shuttle bus for €12 (I think that's what it was for us)

3) Use a Livorno taxi, who really would prefer to sell day-long tours, so they won't even talk to you for less than €25 even if you just want to go the 1km to leave the port. This is the part I blame, there is apparently no regulation on the taxis, or no regulations they're willing to abide by. A 3km taxi ride shouldn't cost me €25; but given you have no other options...

[cle-guy]

It's exactly like having to pay to use the jet bridge, there are no other options. To leave the port area at Livorno you MUST

1) Be part of a [overpriced] tour

2) Use the cruise shuttle bus for €12 (I think that's what it was for us)

3) Use a Livorno taxi, who really would prefer to sell day-long tours, so they won't even talk to you for less than €25 even if you just want to go the 1km to leave the port. This is the part I blame, there is apparently no regulation on the taxis, or no regulations they're willing to abide by. A 3km taxi ride shouldn't cost me €25; but given you have no other options...

 

So by "no options" you actually list 3 of them, yes all at some sort of fee.

 

You also forgot the 4th option, schedule your pierce in advance with an approved taxi service, and then you can have them take you wherever you want to go. Several posters have indicated Livorno isn't the destination anyway, so many?most need some sort of transit anyway, so prearranged service works.

 

And while at it, the 5th option is don't leave the ship while in Livorno, no fees at all.

 

And at least one other poster in this thread has successfully walked out of or into the port, though Im sure this isn't the norm or easy to do.

 

Send your letters to the Livorno Port Authority and Taxi Commission, not the cruise lines.

[John Bull]

Never been to livorno, but been to many ports where there is a shuttle bus to take from ship to port exit, and admittedly none REQUIRED payment, all had tip jars and received a tip.

Right. None REQUIRED payment, and that's the point. And you think folk should throw in a tip on top of a $12 shuttle charge to be taken just a couple of miles to somewhere they don't want to go?

 

Cruising is not like flying, it has different logistical concerns and challenges.

It's you continued the analogy with airports, I simply responded to you

 

In this case to park a ship in Livorno, in order to get to Pisa and Florence, as that's where a ship will fit to park. Other option, forgo visits to Pisa and Florence and don't pay the fee.

That's the whole point - the job of the cruise line is to get you to the destination, not to get you within a mile of the port gate & then hold you to ransom to complete the job.

 

There are lots of international airports even that require a CASH payment at the airport when departing certain countries, it's not an anomaly to the port of Livorno and Crusie Ships.

Huh? :confused: You mean a departure tax? That's not even remotely to do with the topic, let alone Livorno or cruise ships.

 

Also when flying, all passengers do pay a fee to use the airport facilities, it's just that logistically 100% of airplane passengers use the port facilities, so its tacked on to everyone's fare rather than collected only from those who traverse the airport area.

Huh? :confused: You mean landing fees? Again irrelevant. And anyway, don't cruise passengers pay port fees? In their fare, or (in some cases in the USA) tacked onto their cruise fare.

 

And you'd be hard pressed to find any airport in a large city that anyone could actually simply walk out the front door and walk off to their destination. Nearly every person exiting an airport door is getting into some sort of paid transit, unless using a hotel shuttle or had self-parked. In Livorno, if you schedule in advance your tours with approved and registered guides, or schedule excursions with the cruise line, the fees are included in the excursion fares.

Now you're using the airport analogy again. I don't know any airport which requires you to exit by one specific form of payable transportation & to a Hobson's choice location, or to buy an excursion, or to sit in the airport for ten hours.

 

In Livorno as a port stop, not everyone chooses to leave the ship, so in this case, they only charge those people who wish to leave the ship (or it seems, leave then come back). Seems 100% fair to me.

Oh so very wrong. This isn't the Caribbean. Virtually everyone chooses to leave the ship - your countrymen don't fly the Atlantic just to sit on a ship

 

Sorry, but you really are demonstrating that you don't understand the situation at Livorno. Totally different to other ports in Europe or elsewhere.

 

JB :)

[Level six]

So by "no options" you actually list 3 of them, yes all at some sort of fee.

 

You also forgot the 4th option, schedule your pierce in advance with an approved taxi service, and then you can have them take you wherever you want to go. Several posters have indicated Livorno isn't the destination anyway, so many?most need some sort of transit anyway, so prearranged service works.

 

And while at it, the 5th option is don't leave the ship while in Livorno, no fees at all.

 

And at least one other poster in this thread has successfully walked out of or into the port, though Im sure this isn't the norm or easy to do.

 

Send your letters to the Livorno Port Authority and Taxi Commission, not the cruise lines.

 

I didn't send a letter to the cruise line, just posted on CC so fellow cruisers would know about the situation. When I return to Livorno post, I will know. That is the way it is and just wanted to let others know from my experience.

[scottbee]

Sorry, but you really are demonstrating that you don't understand the situation at Livorno. Totally different to other ports in Europe or elsewhere.

 

JB :)

 

Don't worry JB, this person is arguing about Livorno, a port he admits "Never been to livorno, but been to many ports..."

 

I'm with you, it's a racket; and the port/local authority is to blame, with a little blame on the cruise lines for not pressuring the port to clean up their act.

[cle-guy]

Sorry, but you really are demonstrating that you don't understand the situation at Livorno. Totally different to other ports in Europe or elsewhere.

 

I cruise for the ship not ports, so I am one of those who doesn't get of the ship too often, even euro ports

 

My last 2 TA's I didn't get off on the intermittent stops - so bot everyone leaves the ship in all ports, european or not.

 

So bottom line we know this port, like some others and many other places, charge for ground transportation. Shocking, simply shocking.

 

 

That's the whole point - the job of the cruise line is to get you to the destination, not to get you within a mile of the port gate & then hold you to ransom to complete the job.

Your cruise fare pays for transportation from point A rot point B with no guarantee of any stops in between (read the cruise contract).. It doesn't pay for you to be landed, and delivered outside the pier in ports. It gets you TO the port (well in many cases, but sometimes not even to the port, you have to tender), then the ports determine how you get from the ship to the outside of the port. Sounds like Livorno is so industrialized, they have chose to require port-based transit thru their facilities, and are charging only those who choose to leave the ship to use those facilities. Others like St. Maarten make it simple and cheap for guests, as they were designed intentionally for cruise ships.

 

Could your cruise fare been raised $12 per person, sure it could have, but why should I also have to pay an extra $2 when I won't use the pier/port at all. If I decide I want to use the port, then I will pay my $12 if it's required.

 

Does it really matter if you paid $1200 cruise fare plus $12 = $1212 to use a shuttle versus paying $1212 in cruise fare? Sounds like my "put of pocket" is same in any case, and reports here have been that they didn't even require cash payment, it gets posted to the On Board account.

 

Huh? You mean landing fees? Again irrelevant. And anyway, don't cruise passengers pay port fees? In their fare, or (in some cases in the USA) tacked onto their cruise fare.

 

No not talking about Landing fees, those are analogous to the "port Fees and taxes" figure we pay when paying our cruise fare. I'm talking about the "Passenger Facility Charge" we all pay when booking airline tickets, which varies based on airport, this is analogous to paying the port staff to use their facilities, but those who do (i.e. leave the ship). Or call it whatever you want, I'm not saying they are exactly the same, I'm saying they are analogous, not looking to split hairs.

 

Huh? You mean a departure tax? That's not even remotely to do with the topic, let alone Livorno or cruise ships.

I realize departure taxes are different than this issue is, but in general terms, boils down to remember to have cash with you to pay various extra required fees that arise. Departure taxes need paid by people even though they booked via airline, and have to pay it to board the plane. In this case, people ned to pay a shuttle operator even though they booked via cruise, and have to pay to to get back into the port area, in order to board a ship.

 

Don't worry JB, this person is arguing about Livorno, a port he admits "Never been to livorno, but been to many ports..."

 

I'm with you, it's a racket; and the port/local authority is to blame, with a little blame on the cruise lines for not pressuring the port to clean up their act.

I don't now that I have had to use Livorno to understand the fact that they charge a fee to use port shuttles. I generally industrial port has such issues, no surprise. I have been to a few industrial ports where but for the shopping village at the ship once you leave, you need to pay some one to go someplace (Jamaica for example, and perhaps St. Thomas?). Not sure where one would "walk to" once landing in Southampton, UK without paying a fee to be transported someplace, unless you live near the port.

 

It's nice to think the Cruise lines have the power "to clean the ports" up, but in reality if they could, they would have by now. It's not like they want their passengers to have to deal with the local issues, but in some cases, nothing to do. Option could be, charge every single guest $12 more in their fare, and hire a bus, and then those who don't use the service end up paying for it. Not sure how this resolves anything though.

 

Celebrity actually had to cancel a few stops along Asian itineraries last year due to port officials requiring bribes in certain ports.

[insanemagnet]

It's nice to think the Cruise lines have the power "to clean the ports" up, but in reality if they could, they would have by now.

 

It is NOT a question of the cruise lines cleaning up the port, but the cruise line cleaning its own act up.

 

Sure the port will charge the cruise line to lay on the buses, but do you really think that the port will charge the cruise line $25,000 for a few buses for the day?

[Level six]

It is NOT a question of the cruise lines cleaning up the port, but the cruise line cleaning its own act up.

 

Sure the port will charge the cruise line to lay on the buses, but do you really think that the port will charge the cruise line $25,000 for a few buses for the day?

 

So true, I have never thought how much that $12 pp can add up for a day. Even if only 1000 people take the shuttle, that is still a big junk of change for maybe a total of 100 miles per day, per bus.

[John Bull]

We're not going to convince you, are we cie-guy. ;)

 

If you don't get off at Euro-ports, you don't know what you're missing.

Everyone else knows :D

But you're still paying for the free transportation from ship to port gate provided in every other port I've visited where security, safety or distance preclude walking. Whether provided by the ship or the port authority, someone's paying the drivers. Its you & me, in our cruise ticket price - which is where it should be.

 

Cruise contracts are a red herring - they're a get-out for any day-to-day difficulties, particularly the weather. A cruise line would have a hard time justifying missing out an advertised port every time it was scheduled.

 

By your reckoning we should all be paying on top for using tenders - after all, why should you have to pay for a tender when you don't get off the ship?

Let's also deduct from the cruise ticket price the various entertainments, the food & umpteen other services, and split the cost only between the folk who choose to use them. Saves me from paying for your ship-board lunch when I'm ashore, or subsidising the overweight ones who have two or three entrees at dinner. Perhaps make folk use their sea-pass to access the public toilets too, at a dollar a throw.;)

We won't bother telling them about these add-ons in advance - they won't need cash, cos it can all be charged to their on-board account.(See, we Brits are pretty good on sarcasm too ;))

 

There are indeed many places in Southampton one can walk to from the ship, & many do. And nobody's obliged to pay through the nose for a bus to take them to the city centre & then have to walk halfway back to their car rental agency, the train station, etc.

 

The train station in Livorno isn't walkable from the port, it's about 3 miles. Even if folk were allowed to walk out of the port or a free shuttle were provided to the port gate (that's as far as I expect for free), they'd then need transportation to the station. No-one expects the cruise lines to provide a free shuttle to the station or city centre - they're payable in other ports. But outside the port there are local buses & taxis, all far better value than $12 a head.

But I don't suppose this thread would even exist if the payable Livorno shuttle went to the station, even at usual ships' poor value. But it doesn't. It takes them in a slightly different direction & drops them something over a mile from the station, so they then have to complete their journey to the station on a local bus. What a palava, what a waste of time & money.

Can you really not understand that?

 

JB :)

[dodger1964]

... subsidising the overweight ones who have two or three entrees at dinner.

 

JB :)

 

I get 3 entrees at dinner and am not overweight!:rolleyes:

 

I'm not sure if I would prefer Livorno or LaSpezia?

 

Two cruises ago, we docked in Livorno, last cruise we docked in La Spezia.

 

We rented a car each time, Livorno car was waiting at the ship and we drove it out of dock...La Spezia we had to walk a mile or so to the rental agency.

 

I don't know why we docked in La Spezia (if it was a one time thing or if they were trying something different), but it didn't make much difference to us.

[Hlitner]

The situation with the shuttle buses (and we have seen it priced from 7-12 Euros) is even more ridiculous when you consider that they are partially subsidized by the city. This is why the buses drop you at a central business location rather then at the station. The city is hoping that they can get some passengers to spend their time and money in Livorno.

 

As to Cle-Guy, we figure he has just been in Cleveland too long:) If I lived in Cleveland I would probably be in the habit of staying inside too....although we do enjoy the West Side Market. While we sometimes share Cle-Guy's attitude of staying on a ship in a port, Livorno would never be one of those ports. It is the gateway to a fantastic part of Italy (where we have spent months). Italy is a very interesting but also frustrating country. Consider that the port of Civitavecchia does just about everything possible to help cruisers while the Port of Livorno does about everything possible to make cruisers miserable!

 

And while some are on the subject of John Bull (called JB by moi) I can attest that JB is skinny :) On the other hand it is sad that a gentleman (and JB is a true gentleman) from England does not like Guinness!

 

 

 

Hank

Edited April 6, 2015 by Hlitner

[insanemagnet]

The situation with the shuttle buses (and we have seen it priced from 7-12 Euros) is even more ridiculous when you consider that they are partially subsidized by the city. This is why the buses drop you at a central business location rather then at the station. The city is hoping that they can get some passengers to spend their time and money in Livorno.

 

And that is the crazy thing for Livorno.

 

If you have to pay $12 to get off the ship, then you will want to get your $12 worth, and will probably not want to look around the "nondescript town centre of Livorno" (sorry JB), but will just use it as a staging post to one of its more glamorous neighbours, so Livorno gets no cash.

 

On the other hand, the last time I was in Livorno, I didn't fancy the long trek to Florence and I have been to Pisa a number of times, so decided to browse around Livorno, and found it a pleasant place to spend a few hours and a few Euros. Will I do the same in May when I am there again, probably not, so Livorno misses out because it allows companies like NCL to exploit their customers.

[Cloudyrain]

With NCL (in 2013) and P&O (in 2014) a free shuttle was provided by the port to the port gates. The only other buses that were allowed in were the NCL/P&O official guided tours. From the gates you could get a taxi/private tour bus etc.

 

The shuttle to the city centre, when we were there the last two years, did cost (I thought it was 10e each), but you only needed that if you wanted to go further than the gates.

 

I'm surprised it's changed so much and increased so much so quickly.

[southerngirl8]

If you google the port, (http://www.whatsinport.com/Livorno.htm), it does mention that the cost (12 euros) for the cruise shuttle. It also does mention that taxi's are allowed and also not allowed to walk at the container terminal. As I live in a city with a large port, there is lots of security at the port and you simply can not walk on/off the port.

 

Depending on where you ship actually docks could also be the reason for such various comments on this thread as to various scenarios. If you are not taking a tour with a company, I would suggest you simply "google" the port if you believe it could be an issue. In mho, it is always up to me to be knowledgeable of the ports as well as the city and be prepared.

[Level six]

If you google the port, (http://www.whatsinport.com/Livorno.htm), it does mention that the cost (12 euros) for the cruise shuttle. It also does mention that taxi's are allowed and also not allowed to walk at the container terminal. As I live in a city with a large port, there is lots of security at the port and you simply can not walk on/off the port.

 

Depending on where you ship actually docks could also be the reason for such various comments on this thread as to various scenarios. If you are not taking a tour with a company, I would suggest you simply "google" the port if you believe it could be an issue. In mho, it is always up to me to be knowledgeable of the ports as well as the city and be prepared.

 

I did look that up before my cruise and it states, "shuttle buses will be provided, 5 euro, sometimes FREE depending on cruise line" and then states about the $12 fee, but does not say who charges the fee and who doesn't. All I am saying is that NCL should have informed the passengers during booking, or shortly after that there was a fee involved. I mean, it would have been fine, had I known. Since I was not informed, I thought NCL was one of the free ones. I also asked here on CC before my trip and was told it was free.

I researched every single port for our 21 day cruise, so much so, that I google street viewed my path in each city. I was prepared and I thought NCL offered it free since I heard nothing different from them before my trip. Obviously I paid lots of $$ for a 21 day cruise plus the airfare to Europe from the USA, so it is not the $12, it is that they did not tell us about this before booking, during booking, or in any documents. I was so prepared that several people I had met on the ship would stop me to ask me questions about the ports and wanted to go on shore with us.

Again, that is the reason for this thread, to inform people of the fee, no other reason.......................

[scottbee]

If you google the port, (http://www.whatsinport.com/Livorno.htm), it does mention that the cost (12 euros) for the cruise shuttle. It also does mention that taxi's are allowed and also not allowed to walk at the container terminal. As I live in a city with a large port, there is lots of security at the port and you simply can not walk on/off the port.

 

Depending on where you ship actually docks could also be the reason for such various comments on this thread as to various scenarios. If you are not taking a tour with a company, I would suggest you simply "google" the port if you believe it could be an issue. In mho, it is always up to me to be knowledgeable of the ports as well as the city and be prepared.

 

The problem is that's not the Port of Livorno's website; it's just a generic tourist website. This is the official website for the port: http://www.porto.livorno.it/en-us/homepage.aspx

[b_cruise]

This is an interesting thread..I posted on my roll call. Honestly, I'm just booking a tour through italytoursharing.com so I don't have to pay these fees just to get out of the port. Thanks for the post op!!