Profits per passenger

[rusty nut]

$145/person PROFIT sounds about right. Can anyone imagine how much it costs to purchase, maintain and staff 3 (three) 1.5 billion dollar ships? Now toss in the rest of the fleet. Yikes!!

[chengkp75]

On our last three cruises we spent 0 dollars per day, per person. We are not going to over pay (drinks, specialty restaraunts, etc), just so they can make huge profits. My loyalty is to my family's financial health, not the cruise line. There used to be pricing levels I could live with, not anymore.

 

While I can't and don't fault your spending decisions, your statement that the cruise lines are making "huge profits" is somewhat disingenuous. Looking again at RCI's earnings statements, they had a gross "sales/revenues" of $8billion (using round numbers). Sounds like a lot. But they made a profit of $148/passenger on 5.1million passengers carried. That means they made $750million in profit. Again, sounds like a lot. But that represents a 9% profit from their revenues. You could do as well investing that $8billion in mutual funds. 9% is not a huge profit, in any industry, how much do you think Walmart makes on any item?. Their profit, in the gross, is "huge" simply because of the scale of the business.

[chengkp75]

$145/person PROFIT sounds about right. Can anyone imagine how much it costs to purchase, maintain and staff 3 (three) 1.5 billion dollar ships? Now toss in the rest of the fleet. Yikes!!

 

As I've calculated below, their gross expenses (including amortization and depreciation, I know) is $7.5billion, out of $8billion in revenue.

Edited March 24, 2015 by chengkp75

[DirtyDawg]

$145/person PROFIT sounds about right. Can anyone imagine how much it costs to purchase, maintain and staff 3 (three) 1.5 billion dollar ships? Now toss in the rest of the fleet. Yikes!!

 

Ya, $25 billion to build all the stuff on land and at Sea, and about $6.5 billion in cash to run the thing for a year.

[DirtyDawg]

As I've calculated below, their gross expenses (including amortization and depreciation, I know) is $7.5billion, out of $8billion in revenue.

 

:D:D Good edit!;)

[chengkp75]

:D:D Good edit!;)

 

I'm not a CPA, haven't played one on TV, nor stayed at one of those hotels lately! But I will admit to senior moments. :D

[bouhunter]

Seems like a lot of this data comes from the annual report. Which you would suggest is a lie. Between the SEC and investors, I don't think it's common practice to lie in an annual report.

 

May not be a relevant discussion, but it does not mean it's incorrect.

 

Then again relevancy is kind of up to the reader.

 

You've now made references in TWO posts that I suggested corporations lie. I NEVER SAID ONE WORD NOR INFERRED that corporations lie:rolleyes: Taking that leap from my post is no where near accurate. Would have expected better from someone from an "educated" place like "a2".......:rolleyes:

Edited March 24, 2015 by bouhunter

[BallFour4]

On our last three cruises we spent 0 dollars per day, per person. We are not going to over pay (drinks, specialty restaraunts, etc), just so they can make huge profits. My loyalty is to my family's financial health, not the cruise line. There used to be pricing levels I could live with, not anymore.

 

While prices are somewhat higher I am taking my wife on the Navigator for 7 nights at a cheaper rate than the Mardi Gras cost me in 1987. And that's before inflated dollars.

 

.

Edited March 24, 2015 by BallFour4

[DirtyDawg]

I'm not a CPA, haven't played one on TV, nor stayed at one of those hotels lately! But I will admit to senior moments. :D

 

No worries, good catch. I almost did the same thing.:o Here I am preaching about cash flow and I just about did the revenues minus net income thing.

 

I'm not a CPA either, just a CFA. Thank goodness my DW is a CPA for the really hard accounting questions and the tax stuff. When I owned my own business someone asked once what a earned and I had to ask my wife/tax accountant. Big difference between cash coming in and going out and 'earnings'.;)

[chengkp75]

No worries, good catch. I almost did the same thing.:o Here I am preaching about cash flow and I just about did the revenues minus net income thing.

 

I'm not a CPA either, just a CFA. Thank goodness my DW is a CPA for the really hard accounting questions and the tax stuff. When I owned my own business someone asked once what a earned and I had to ask my wife/tax accountant. Big difference between cash coming in and going out and 'earnings'.;)

 

Hey, I feel good just getting these big numbers right, sitting here with my fingers and toes! Yep, had to take the shoes off to get that one right! :D

[bala1130]

Better than GM, that on average loses money every time it sells a vehicle ;)

 

This is not a true statement. From a Detroit News article dated February 22, 2015. GM makes average of $654 per vehicle sold.

[sg1phileshipper]

Seems so little profit. Read the same article somewhere. Hard to believe

Cindy

 

 

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[DirtyDawg]

Hey, I feel good just getting these big numbers right, sitting here with my fingers and toes! Yep, had to take the shoes off to get that one right! :D

 

Warren Buffett started off with the fingers and toes approach in the day.:) Come to think of it so did Bill Gates. He used his fingers as the bits and his toes as the bytes. A little fancy foot work and piano hands and DOS was born.:D

 

(OK,OK, I won't quit my day job.:()

Edited March 24, 2015 by DirtyDawg

[orville99]

This is not a true statement. From a Detroit News article dated February 22, 2015. GM makes average of $654 per vehicle sold.

 

Now that GM stands for Government Motors, that is true. However, before the bailout, GM lost on average $176/vehicle sold.

[grandgeezer]

If you paid for your cruise fair, you did not sail for $0 per day. If you take your total cruise fair and divide it by the number of family members sailing, then divide that number by the number of days you sailed you will get a figure that you actually paid per person, per day. Seeing as how the ticket price is usually the most expensive part of the cruise, you certainly did not cruise for free.

 

As others, I was talking onboard spending. No where did I say I cruised for free. I suppose next time I should spell it out . I have a hard time taking anybody seriously who can't spell fare as in cruise fare, not fair as on the up and up.

[stompy]

Found the 2004 10k.

 

2004

• PAX carried 3,405,227
  
• PAX Crusie days: 22,661,965
  
• Occupancy: 105.7%
  
• Net Profit: $474,691,000
  
• Profit per Guest: $139.40
  
• Profit per Cruise Day: $20.94
  
• Ticket revenues: 73.7% of revenue
  
• On Board Revenues: 26.3% of revenue
  

 

2014

• Pax Carried 5,149,952
  
• Pax Cruise Days: 36,710,966
  
• Occupancy: 105.6%
  
• Net Profit $764,146,000
  
• Profit per Guest: $148.37
  
• Profit per Cruise Day: $20.81
  
• Ticket revenues: 73% of revenue
  
• On Board Revenues: 27% of revenue
  

 

It is interesting when you pare it down to single units the profit is amazingly consistent over the decade.

 

Even with BOGO and all the other stuff we see on the website the fares have still been at 73% and the nickle and dimeing at 27%

 

Glad to see they are making money and are able to continually invest in new ships and keeping up the old ones.

 

My company made $12B in profit last year and we considered that a bad year.

[orville99]

Seems so little profit. Read the same article somewhere. Hard to believe

Cindy

 

 

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I prefer to look directly at cash/passenger. RCL had cash and cash equivalents of $189.2 MM at year end. If you divide that by the 5.1 MM passengers it carried, you get a slightly different picture of their cash generating power:) That means RCL generated ~$6 in free cash flow per passenger per day :) Profits are GAAP accounting mumbo jumbo, cash is king:D

Edited March 24, 2015 by orville99

[ryano]

. I have a hard time taking anybody seriously who can't spell fare as in cruise fare, not fair as on the up and up.

 

I have a hard time taking anybody seriously that really has no other retort than to make fun of someones grammar or spelling which in fact, I DO believe is a major violation of board policy here.

 

Carry on :rolleyes:

[whitshel]

Like the Pirate Code (more of a guideline, really) :D

 

That's classic Mr Barbosa!😂

[DirtyDawg]

I prefer to look directly at cash/passenger. RCL had cash and cash equivalents of $189.2 MM at year end. If you divide that by the 5.1 MM passengers it carried, you get a slightly different picture of their cash generating power:) That means RCL generated ~$6 in free cash flow per passenger per day :) Profits are GAAP accounting mumbo jumbo, cash is king:D

 

Cash is the best way to look at it but you are using the wrong cash number. The $189.2MM was the cash in the bank at year end, which is from the Balance Sheet. You want to use the Cash Flow from Operations or the Free Cash flow from the Cash Flow Statement. RCL generated $139MM in free cash flow in '14 (Cash Flow from Ops less net CapEx) so the Free Cash Flow per passenger day comes out to $4. (Free CF / # of passenger cruise days)

 

The net CapEx amount includes all the capex including cash spent on the new builds etc. Some people prefer to use maintenance Capex which removes the CapEx used for growth of the business to determine how much cash is generated for the company today in it's current state. Those analysts usually have to dig a lot deeper to find out what that maintenance number is.

[grandgeezer]

I have a hard time taking anybody seriously that really has no other retort than to make fun of someones grammar or spelling which in fact, I DO believe is a major violation of board policy here.

 

Carry on :rolleyes:

 

I resent being called a liar. Just because the blog was interpreted wrong, that's not an excuse. A person that posted a few before me said they got by on $4 per person, per day, that was taken as gospel. I read that if you roll your eyes too much, they might stay crossed.

[orville99]

Cash is the best way to look at it but you are using the wrong cash number. The $189.2MM was the cash in the bank at year end, which is from the Balance Sheet. You want to use the Cash Flow from Operations or the Free Cash flow from the Cash Flow Statement. RCL generated $139MM in free cash flow in '14 (Cash Flow from Ops less net CapEx) so the Free Cash Flow per passenger day comes out to $4. (Free CF / # of passenger cruise days)

 

The net CapEx amount includes all the capex including cash spent on the new builds etc. Some people prefer to use maintenance Capex which removes the CapEx used for growth of the business to determine how much cash is generated for the company today in it's current state. Those analysts usually have to dig a lot deeper to find out what that maintenance number is.

 

 

True. I didn't have time to dig down and disembowel their EBITDA (since they pay no U.S. taxes) to do that calculation. I know a lot of companies that would kill for that much free cash flow/customer/day, however:D

[DirtyDawg]

True. I didn't have time to dig down and disembowel their EBITDA (since they pay no U.S. taxes) to do that calculation. I know a lot of companies that would kill for that much free cash flow/customer/day, however:D

 

:D:D disembowel :D I love that phrase. Can I steal it?

 

I have had to disembowel quite a few EBITDA's in my day, and a few managements too.;)

[chengkp75]

I resent being called a liar. Just because the blog was interpreted wrong, that's not an excuse. A person that posted a few before me said they got by on $4 per person, per day, that was taken as gospel. I read that if you roll your eyes too much, they might stay crossed.

 

Woah, boys, pump the brakes. I don't think rustynut was calling you a liar, he misinterpreted your post, as you have pointed out a few posts up. It happens all the time. You on the other hand went on a personal attack on his grammar and spelling, which is what ryano is talking about. One person questioned your statement, you questioned his intelligence. This is the kind of post that will get this thread killed. You have to remember that typing is a cold, hard means of communicating, and doesn't convey expression well. Try to be a little less thin skinned.

 

And with that, I will bid this thread a fond adieu, as I have no idea what dirtydog is talking about, or even if it is English.

Edited March 24, 2015 by chengkp75

[rusty nut]

As others, I was talking onboard spending. No where did I say I cruised for free. I suppose next time I should spell it out . I have a hard time taking anybody seriously who can't spell fare as in cruise fare, not fair as on the up and up.

To be honest, and fair (get it?:)) others on this thread are not talking about on-board spending, at least not many. This thread is entirely about RCI's profits, which as we all know, don't come from just on-board spending. To be truthful, I knew what you meant when you said $0 per day per person but technically, you referenced a free cruise. I've leaned that on internet forums you must say "exactly" what you mean or you will get called out, like you correcting my spelling. All is good. Peace. :)