HAL upping their profit margin?

[CruzinRex]

Don't get me wrong I like HAL - but our last two cruises seemed to lack in a couple of areas.

First of all, the theater shows aren't nearly as good as they used to be and while at one time people used to hurry to claim a near the stage seat, now they opt for the back rows. Reason: The music is just too damned loud even for this hearing impaired gent, so loud that the singers are hard to hear over the music.

Secondly, we have noticed a trend that HAL often parks their ships at commercial piers instead of accommodating "tourist" piers. About this time last week we berthed at a commercial pier in St. Thomas -among Crowley shipping containers several miles and taxi $$$ from town while a RCL cruise ship tied up within walking distance of the town center.

 

I can only conclude that these actions were deliberate - to drive us out of the theater with its poor drink sales and into the bar/entertainment venues where HAL passengers are more likely to opt for a cocktail. The same goes for remote ports - I think HAL hopes that people who haven't purchased an excursion will remain on board and hit the Lido bar.

 

 

HAL should have never sold out to CCL,

[InTheWASide]

HAL should have never sold out to CCL,

 

Welcome to cruise critic.

 

I'll give the same reply I do to anyone that goes here...

 

You know this happened in the late 80's right? HAL folding into Carnival Corp is not a "in the last few years" thing.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Yes, the entertainment has gone down hill for the most part.

Are you talking about Crown Bay in St Thomas? If so -- HAL and Princess signed 10 year contracts to dock there. This is about year #6 of the contract. Maybe someone knows the exact year.

[PathfinderEss]

Hal sold out to Carnival Corp some 35 years ago, if they hadn't have done that I'd say Hal would have went by the way side. Though I do agree with you about the entertainment.

[StartrainDD]

Hi Rex! Welcome to cruise critic!

 

We are not sure how often you've been cruising with HAL the last few years, but we felt that late 2013 and 2014 were huge improvements in the quality of the shows. Perhaps it was just our sailings or ships.

 

At least you were able to dock in St. Thomas. We were there and there was "No room at the inn" and had to tender in. It was a long and bouncy tender ride too.

 

Havensight docks a quite a ways from downtown as well.

[jtl513]

Are you talking about Crown Bay in St Thomas?

I've never noticed any "Crowley shipping containers" at Crown bay.

 

Edited March 26, 2015 by jtl513

[take us away]

Agree with you about the music being too loud and most of the entertainment being mediocre but do have to say, the singer and dancer shows (which we usually skip as have been atrocious in the past) were VERY good on our B2B cruise the end of Nov / early Dec. One was so good, we went twice - and that was a 1st for us!

 

Maybe on your next cruise, if the music is too loud, ask the CD about possibly having it turned down a bit.

 

Interested to know where you did dock in St Thomas as have also never seen shipping ships near the newer pier that HAL uses. There is the big pier at Havensite and the smaller pier in Crowns Bay.

[ScriptOhio]

Secondly, we have noticed a trend that HAL often parks their ships at commercial piers instead of accommodating "tourist" piers. About this time last week we berthed at a commercial pier in St. Thomas -among Crowley shipping containers several miles and taxi $$$ from town while a RCL cruise ship tied up within walking distance of the town center.

 

I've never noticed any "Crowley shipping containers" at Crown bay.

 

The original poster might be referring to the Crown Bay Cargo Port area (bottom right corner):

 

Edited March 26, 2015 by ScriptOhio

[rkacruiser]

If Carnival Corporation--or someone--had not bought HAL, there would be no HAL today in all probability. When the company was sold, they needed new tonnage and they could not afford to build such.

 

I also am one who thinks the cast shows have improved within the last 2-3 years. Droom on the Noordam and Cantare on Nieuw Amsterdam are among the best I have seen at sea. Sound levels for the shows can be an issue, I agree.

 

At St. Thomas, I would prefer docking at Havensite, but I found Crown Bay's area to be much improved when I was there in January as compared to the last time I was there. I had no issues whatsoever in getting to and from downtown from Crown Bay.

[Sir PMP]

'HAL should have never sold out to CCL,'

 

You're right there, but at that time they had no other choice. All the other stuff: I have rated the entertainment on Hal between 0 and 1, since 1991, and Crowley has been their home in St Thomas for at least 5 years, Havensight is for the moguls...

[serendipity1499]

Don't get me wrong I like HAL - but our last two cruises seemed to lack in a couple of areas.

First of all, the theater shows aren't nearly as good as they used to be and while at one time people used to hurry to claim a near the stage seat, now they opt for the back rows. Reason: The music is just too damned loud even for this hearing impaired gent, so loud that the singers are hard to hear over the music.

Secondly, we have noticed a trend that HAL often parks their ships at commercial piers instead of accommodating "tourist" piers. About this time last week we berthed at a commercial pier in St. Thomas -among Crowley shipping containers several miles and taxi $$$ from town while a RCL cruise ship tied up within walking distance of the town center.

 

I can only conclude that these actions were deliberate - to drive us out of the theater with its poor drink sales and into the bar/entertainment venues where HAL passengers are more likely to opt for a cocktail. The same goes for remote ports - I think HAL hopes that people who haven't purchased an excursion will remain on board and hit the Lido bar.

 

 

HAL should have never sold out to CCL,

 

LOL :D:D Agree with you about the music being MUCH TOO LOUD! Also agree that the entertainment has not been the best, but understand it has improved in the past few years..

 

Re remote ports? I'm thoroughly confused..:confused:Where in the dickens were you docked? HAL has been going to Crown Bay for at least 5 years, but we've never been in a Cargo area..Agree it's not downtown, but we've always been able to get the jitney's into town with no trouble at all.. And Crown Bay has some lovely shops there..

 

However, "Carnival Corp. & PLC" bought out HAL in 1989..That's 27 ears ago & it was Carnivals first acquisition ! I think it's been successful only because Carnival Corp. did not interfere with the day to day operation, but did pour lots of $$$ into HAL for new ships & upgrades.. I'm actually glad HAL was acquired by a large Corp. as IMO it saved HAL from extinction..:D

 

BTW you can purchase drinks in the theater, as we often have done & have found the servers in the theater to be quite good..:)

Edited March 26, 2015 by serendipity1499

[headhunterke]

I noticed the same thing about the music on my last cruise. While most of the singers had great voices, they got overpowered by the music. I found this issue to be less with the guest performers.

I like loud music if the voices are equally loud as well. But singers struggle to maintain that high volume isn't pretty at times.

[Vict0riann]

Do you think the price of oil at the moment is adding to this?

[Hlitner]

I noticed the same thing about the music on my last cruise. While most of the singers had great voices, they got overpowered by the music. I found this issue to be less with the guest performers.

I like loud music if the voices are equally loud as well. But singers struggle to maintain that high volume isn't pretty at times.

 

Years ago the main cruise ship shows were accompanied by orchestras which usually had about 8-9 musicians. But then HAL decided to reduce the size of all their bands, got rid of all the brass players (trumpet and trombone) and began to totally rely on pre-recorded sound tracks for their shows. So now, these main shows are sometimes closer to Karaoke than what we consider a live theater show. And we think that the sound men/women that control the volume of the music have all lost some of their hearing over many shows so now just keep turning up the volume louder and louder :).

 

Hank

[rkacruiser]

I think it was near the end of the wonderful maiden Asia Pacific Cruise on the Volendam in 2002 that we learned that the number of live musicians for the shows were going to be reduced. Not sure, over some time, voice synch/pre-recorded music was used. The pendulum does seem to me to be swinging back to more live music.

 

During the Behind the Scenes Tour on the Noordam in January, the Lead Member of the Cast addressed our group and confirmed that the 2 male and 2 female lead singers are indeed singing live. The other cast members--the dancers--are recorded. (Not a surprise to me; how can one sing and still go through the kind of dance gyrations that they do?) There is live music for those shows now. At least, for some of them; cannot say for all for certain.

Edited March 26, 2015 by rkacruiser

[headhunterke]

Yes, the lead singers at the shows are actually singing live. I sat in front during the Droom show (the one where they run up and down those stairs next to the stage) and I could hear them singing withouth the echo of the mic. Pretty special thing to hear :-)

 

rkacruiser, sorry to go off topic, but when did you go on the Noordam?

Because during my B2B at the beginning of Jan. I specifically asked for the Behind the Scenes Tour and the Front Desk told me they discontinued that. So I'm just wondering if they told me hocus...

[rkacruiser]

headhunterke,

 

I sailed on Noordam on January 5th and January 16th of this year. For the first cruise, I was told when I asked that the tour was not available because of "security reasons". The security level was 1. During the second cruise, in the On Location Program, the tour was shown as being available. I IMMEDIATELY THAT EVENING went to the Front Office to book it. The Front Office man with whom I spoke during the first cruise again said that the tour was not available. I INSISTED that it was. He had to call the Guest Relations Manager to confirm my information and then booked me on it. What was the security level during the second cruise? Still #1.

 

My two Noordam cruises this year were the most guest un-friendly cruises due to ship management decisions that I have ever encountered on any Holland America Line ship.

 

While I enjoyed the cruise and the crew with whom I met, these two cruises are not positively memorable.

[headhunterke]

Then we were on the same sailing :-)

Indeed, I can't remember the MARSEC level being any other than 1.

And I agree the front desk wasn't very friendly or willing to accept their mistake. That's what I filed through HAL. I remember last year they would've gotten out of their way to help you any way they could. I know the Front Desk Supervisor even let me call with their sattelite phone to my bank because of a very urgent issue with my creditcard. No charge and she even called me back to check if all worked out. On this cruise, no callback after 2 upgrade requests, while they clearly noted it down and promised me a callback, no matter the outcome. I still haven't had that call.

 

I know crew friendliness is something that can change very quickly but the difference was very clear. I'm glad I wasn't the only one noticing this.

However, my cabin stewards on this cruise were the most awesome guys I've had in my 5 HAL cruises.

[Boytjie]

This does not look like a commercial pier to me...

 

 

As for the music being too loud: I have been complaining about it in various locations and on different cruise lines lately. Yet I doubt it has anything to do with profit margins. :D

[Wakepatrol]

HAL upped their profit margin. Cruises are the same price or cheaper as they were 12 years ago. Things will be watered down or eliminated completely.

 

Something has to give

[POA1]

This does not look like a commercial pier to me...

 

 

As for the music being too loud: I have been complaining about it in various locations and on different cruise lines lately. Yet I doubt it has anything to do with profit margins. :D

 

 

You're right. It's not a commercial pier. You'd be hard pressed to find any cruise piers that aren't located fairly close to commercial facilities. Even Vancouver's Canada Place is within view of freight facilities.

 

As for volume of shows... If you've been to a Broadway show lately, you probably noticed that it was loud. Full orchestra, but amplified. I don't think that can correlate to increased profits unless they start selling noise reduction ear pieces. (Speaking of which, Hearos disposable are a great product. Get the ones with flat attenuation - the High Fidelity series. $10 and they'll be good for the whole cruise.)

 

It turns out that music today *is* louder.

 

http://gizmodo.com/your-parents-are-right-music-really-has-gotten-louder-1440859897

[dockman]

This does not look like a commercial pier to me...

 

 

As for the music being too loud: I have been complaining about it in various locations and on different cruise lines lately. Yet I doubt it has anything to do with profit margins. :D

 

On the Zaandam recently in South America I was trying to find a semi quite place to sit and read a book at 9 am or so....went to crows nest which had no functions going on at the time. Of course it seems that there just MUST be some kind of music playing non stop even when myself and maybe five other people are sitting trying to read...and woudn't you know they were playing RAP music? RAP MUSIC? On Holland America in crows nest at 9 am where the average age was probably 70 PLUS? Polite request to turn it off were ignored.

 

Do cruise lines understand that sometimes good old SILENCE is what some passengers want? It seems to me it is getting more and more difficult to find peace and quiet on ships.

[serendipity1499]

HAL upped their profit margin. Cruises are the same price or cheaper as they were 12 years ago. Things will be watered down or eliminated completely.

 

Something has to give

 

Completely Agree!

 

I've been keeping track of our cost per day on our cruises since 1998 & the cost in 1998 for an outside cabin to the Southern Carib on the Ryndam was $267 per day for 10 days..(Oct 1998)

 

In 2013 we did the same cruise on the Ryndam for 21 days & it was $212.75 per day..(Nov. 2013)

 

With the exception of the Prinsendam the costs have remained the same or less per day..

Edited March 27, 2015 by serendipity1499

[Ky Colonel]

... as a CCL shareholder, I hope OP and like-minded posters are correct ... after all, CCL (which includes its subsidiary HAL) is in business to make money for its shareholders. Insofar as cutting back on services (to enhance its bottom line), I haven't noticed any particular trend in that direction but, in any event, that issue is/will be addressed by the market place if those measures are excessive or otherwise unacceptable to CCL/HAL customers. Or am I missing something here?

 

Rod

[Boytjie]

Do cruise lines understand that sometimes good old SILENCE is what some passengers want? It seems to me it is getting more and more difficult to find peace and quiet on ships.

 

I had a disagreement with a friend on Facebook about music on Half Moon Cay: he wishes there was a live band or music broadcasted on the beach whilst I prefer peace and quiet on a beach. :)

 

On the ship I prefer hanging out on a deck area without music.

 

We haven't been to HMC since 2012 :eek: and if I remember correctly there was some live music in the Captain Morgan bar that could be heard on the beach in front of it. Is that still the case?