Will you reduce DSC

[Guest phd1003]

Yes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm really confused by your posts.

 

When you buy a new car, do you insist on a factory tour to ensure that the person who tightened the bolts on YOUR vehicle is properly compensated? The people in the paint shop? The Sales Manager, the Sales Rep? The marketing person?

 

I'd wager that you don't. You're probably (like most people) comfortable with the concept that the employer has successfully negotiated with their employees such that they are adequately and competitively compensated. It may even be that some portion of the vehicle purchase price funds the annual company picnic and staff Christmas Party, and maybe even subsidizes the cafeteria so that employees get nutritious food at a reasonable price.

 

 

Why do you feel that NCL is incapable of this?

 

 

Stephen

 

 

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I applaud your attempt at introducing logic thinking into this thread - Unfortunately this is not possible...This thread is for name calling, excuse making, and pitiful attempts to convert people to their way of thinking...:D

[pieshops]

When I buy a new car, a fee is NOT added to compensate employees who went above and beyond. Employee wages are included in the price of the car. Another disingenuous analogy.

 

 

 

And people have doubt because unlike other lines, NCL will not provide any information on how the DSC is distributed. Who gets what? Does management get a cut? What percentage is not directly distributed to staff? Why can't staff discuss this with us? These are all questions I want answered before I trust NCL.

 

ok so how about this one, more in line with what you are saying.

 

You go out to eat at a nice restaurant, you have a head waiter who takes your order, a back waiter who brings your food, another person who may take your drink and wine order. Do you care how they split their tips up or do you just leave the tip and let them figure out how to split it up. Now maybe the back waiter works harder because he has to carry all the food out, does he get more? Why does anyone care just enjoy your cruise

[sparks1093]

When I buy a new car, a fee is NOT added to compensate employees who went above and beyond. Employee wages are included in the price of the car. Another disingenuous analogy.

 

 

 

And people have doubt because unlike other lines, NCL will not provide any information on how the DSC is distributed. Who gets what? Does management get a cut? What percentage is not directly distributed to staff? Why can't staff discuss this with us? These are all questions I want answered before I trust NCL.

 

Seriously, if you mistrust NCL that much how can you trust them with your very life?

[Jane Don]

ok so how about this one, more in line with what you are saying.

 

You go out to eat at a nice restaurant, you have a head waiter who takes your order, a back waiter who brings your food, another person who may take your drink and wine order. Do you care how they split their tips up or do you just leave the tip and let them figure out how to split it up. Now maybe the back waiter works harder because he has to carry all the food out, does he get more? Why does anyone care just enjoy your cruise

 

I tip my server. My server can choose to keep it all or share, I do not care. I however do NOT tip the restaurant and let management decide who gets what. If I was ever told to do so, I would not tip. BECAUSE IT IS SHADY.

[Lovecruises2014]

Seriously, if you mistrust NCL that much how can you trust them with your very life?

Thank you; I was wondering that myself. I would never pay nor travel with a company that I don't trust with my overall wellbeing, let alone my wallet. If you don't trust with your tips, why would you trust with your fare in the 1st place?!?

[sparks1093]

I tip my server. My server can choose to keep it all or share, I do not care. I however do NOT tip the restaurant and let management decide who gets what. If I was ever told to do so, I would not tip. BECAUSE IT IS SHADY.

 

You've never included your tip on the credit card charge slip?

[LMaxwell]

Why not just prepay? It's much easier.

I am glad they offer that option for those who prefer it but it is not the option I would choose. Is that alright with you?

[Jane Don]

I was just defending my beliefs. I worked 10 years as a casino dealer with pooled tips and 4 years as a server. I have paid my bills from both sides. I am entitled to my choice and I never once suggested anyone else's choice is wrong. You call me a cheapskate and a stiffer and you are wrong.

 

NCL is a publicly held for profit corporation. They are required by law to maximize profits. If they put their pax in danger would they continue to make money? Another disingenuous analogy.

 

Casinos and restaurants do not include staff gratuities as revenue. NCL does. I see this as a deal breaker but you might not. If you want to pay it, pay it.

 

If any of you can show me how NCL distributes the DSC I will eat crow. Otherwise, I will continue to make my service providers happy by tipping them in cash - which they prefer. If NCL and its investors don't like it they should fix it.

[Guest phd1003]

I was just defending my beliefs. I worked 10 years as a casino dealer with pooled tips and 4 years as a server. I have paid my bills from both sides. I am entitled to my choice and I never once suggested anyone else's choice is wrong. You call me a cheapskate and a stiffer and you are wrong.

 

NCL is a publicly held for profit corporation. They are required by law to maximize profits. If they put their pax in danger would they continue to make money? Another disingenuous analogy.

 

Casinos and restaurants do not include staff gratuities as revenue. NCL does. I see this as a deal breaker but you might not. If you want to pay it, pay it.

 

If any of you can show me how NCL distributes the DSC I will eat crow. Otherwise, I will continue to make my service providers happy by tipping them in cash - which they prefer. If NCL and its investors don't like it they should fix it.

 

If you have $100 to pass out equally and 100 people to give it to - that equals $1 each - If you have $100 and pass out equally to 5 people that equals $20 each - It's not quantum physics why they prefer it that way...

[pieshops]

I tip my server. My server can choose to keep it all or share, I do not care. I however do NOT tip the restaurant and let management decide who gets what. If I was ever told to do so, I would not tip. BECAUSE IT IS SHADY.

 

How do you know this, every restaurant i have ever worked in Management has told such and such percentage must be tipped out to buses, barracks etc

[sjbdtz]

When I buy a new car, a fee is NOT added to compensate employees who went above and beyond. Employee wages are included in the price of the car. Another disingenuous analogy.

 

 

 

And people have doubt because unlike other lines, NCL will not provide any information on how the DSC is distributed. Who gets what? Does management get a cut? What percentage is not directly distributed to staff? Why can't staff discuss this with us? These are all questions I want answered before I trust NCL.

 

 

First-off, NCL does not add a fee to compensate employees who went above & beyond. What NCL does, is remove the employee's compensation from the base fare and make it visible, so that people who live in cultures where tipping is not customary, are not made uncomfortable by having to do it on the ship. The message is simple: the service is not part of your base fare, it's this separate daily charge. And no tipping is required at all, UNLESS you feel you want to compensate somebody over & above....then....feel free.

 

 

 

 

NCL is a publicly held for profit corporation. They are required by law to maximize profits.

 

Casinos and restaurants do not include staff gratuities as revenue. NCL does. Except that...no they don't.

 

 

LOL! That's the funniest thing I've read on CC, perhaps ever.

 

For-profit corporations are NOT required BY LAW to maximize profits.

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/04/16/what-are-corporations-obligations-to-shareholders/corporations-dont-have-to-maximize-profits

 

 

Stephen

 

 

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[sparks1093]

Just a point of clarification among all the noise here.

 

I actually overlooked my skepticism of the DSC during my two NCL cruises and paid it in full.

 

But the turning point for me was the removal of the specialty restaurants from the DSC pool. That completely breaks the DSC concept, and I have changed my attitude about it from "skeptical but willing to go along with it" to "I have to adjust it to what I think is fair".

 

It is my understanding that they removed the servers in the specialty restaurants when they instituted a gratuity in those venues, so if a server works in a specialty they receive the tips, when they work in the MDR they receive a share of the service charge.

[RiotAct]

Required by law to maximize profits... heheh. THAT would be an easy one to enforce. :eek:

[jackson bernard]

I know I will not be giving any extra money to NCL to distribute as they see fit. I will remove the DSC and tip directly to the people who serve me. It is not customary to to tip the behind the scenes crew anywhere I know of. What the servers do with the tips is their business. If they don't give any to the dishwashers so be it. They don't work for me and I have my own charities I donate to.

[zqvol]

I can't wait for NCL and the other lines to make these charges mandatory, and non removable so that these hilarious threads will disappear once and for all.

[motleyfan]

I can't wait for NCL and the other lines to make these charges mandatory, and non removable so that these hilarious threads will disappear once and for all.

 

I couldn't agree more.

[SteveH2508]

It amazes me how many brain-cells have been fried and electrons disturbed in the analysis of gratuities/tips/service charges/bungs/backhanders - whatever you want to call them. It is a flawed system which is not amenable to logical analysis.

 

People are moralizing; analyzing; agonizing; proselytizing about this.

 

It is very simple: - you book with NCL - their train set - their rules. Pay the on-board Service Charge (note no D) and all ends are covered. If you wish to walk around the ship showering dollar bills to all and sundry then that is your choice (BTW - I'm usually in the Martini Bar!:D)

 

If you remove the on-board Service Charge then someone, somewhere will get screwed. JMHO.

[ColinIllinois]

It amazes me how many brain-cells have been fried and electrons disturbed in the analysis of gratuities/tips/service charges/bungs/backhanders - whatever you want to call them. It is a flawed system which is not amenable to logical analysis.

People are moralizing; analyzing; agonizing; proselytizing about this.

 

It is very simple: - you book with NCL - their train set - their rules. Pay the on-board Service Charge (note no D) and all ends are covered. If you wish to walk around the ship showering dollar bills to all and sundry then that is your choice (BTW - I'm usually in the Martini Bar!:D)

 

If you remove the on-board Service Charge then someone, somewhere will get screwed. JMHO.

 

Is that called irony? ;)

[DMH15]

I can't wait for NCL and the other lines to make these charges mandatory, and non removable so that these hilarious threads will disappear once and for all.

 

 

I hope it happens in my lifetime.

[Lovecruises2014]

I hope it happens in my lifetime.

Way things are going; hopefully next year?

[SteveH2508]

I can't wait for NCL and the other lines to make these charges mandatory, and non removable so that these hilarious threads will disappear once and for all.

 

Amen to that!

[tony11727]

I am not going to reduce it most probably i am going to remove it

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

If you're going to remove it, at least have the guts to do it at the beginning of the cruise so everyone assigned knows who you are. Or, were you planning to take it off the last day?

[pokerpro5]

I'm really confused by your posts.

 

When you buy a new car, do you insist on a factory tour to ensure that the person who tightened the bolts on YOUR vehicle is properly compensated? The people in the paint shop? The Sales Manager, the Sales Rep? The marketing person?

 

I'd wager that you don't. You're probably (like most people) comfortable with the concept that the employer has successfully negotiated with their employees such that they are adequately and competitively compensated. It may even be that some portion of the vehicle purchase price funds the annual company picnic and staff Christmas Party, and maybe even subsidizes the cafeteria so that employees get nutritious food at a reasonable price.

 

 

Why do you feel that NCL is incapable of this?

 

 

Another terrible Stephen analogy.

 

When I buy a car, I am buying a product. I am not tipping anyone. Nobody is providing a service. When I purchase a vehicle, I pay them a price we agree upon for what I feel the vehicle is worth. Same way I pay the supermarket for a box of cereal. Again, I'm buying a product, and therefore require no visibility into how they spend the money I trade them for that product.

 

Tips/gratuities are an entirely different matter. They are optional. You give them in exchange for adequate/good service. If service is poor, or if you don't receive the service at all, you do not tip. For example, when I carry my own bags up to my hotel room, I don't tip the bellman. When I park my own car, I don't tip the valet.

 

NCL switched to a pooled tipping model to (supposedly) ensure that all of their background service people also get tipped, rather than just the ones you directly interact with (or traditionally tip directly). So they're trying to say that the guy keeping the hallway clean for me is just as deserving of my tips as the guy serving me food. Okay, I can go along with that.

 

But where I can't go along is where a large portion of my tips go to a large group of employees of a service I don't use. I'm referring to the MDR. There are a LOT of MDR employees, and yet I don't eat there at all. And the reason I don't eat there is because I'm utilizing another dining option they provide me -- the specialty restaurants, where I am forced to tip separately.

 

So basically, NCL is saying, "You can eat in the specialties for a fee, PLUS you need to separately tip the employees there, but you also have to tip everyone in the MDR where you DON'T eat."

 

That makes no sense.

 

When you go to a steakhouse at home, I doubt you also stop by Denny's on the way home just to tip the waitress where you DIDN'T eat.

 

Under the previous system, specialty restaurants were part of the DSC pool, so I was fine with some of my tips going to MDR employees, knowing that in turn, MDR diners were also tipping my specialty restaurant servers, so it all evened out.

 

But here I am being forced to tip a large pool of people that aren't serving me, yet the ones serving me are not being tipped on the other end by MDR diners.

 

That's my main problem. NCL broke the whole DSC concept by doing this.

 

Furthermore, I don't like how some of my tips are being used for "team building" or other nonsense. My tips should entirely end up in the hands of NCL employees.

 

As I said before, I suspect that reducing the DSC doesn't even penalize any NCL crew. I am guessing NCL handles the DSC this way:

 

1) They set a constant wage for crew members, and pay them that wage (that is, it's not variable based upon the amount of DSC received).

 

2) If NCL recoups less than that amount through the DSC, they eat the difference. (This is probably why they have raised the DSC twice -- because they were failing to recoup it all!)

 

3) If NCL recoups MORE than that amount, they spend the excess on team building BS.

 

Under the above scenario, you are taking money away from NCL when you reduce the DSC, not the hardworking crew.

 

I cannot be sure this is how it works, but I would be surprised if the truth is too far from the above.

 

Perhaps when I give a cash tip to my steward at the end of the cruise, I will engage him in conversation and see if I can squeeze out of him some more details.

Edited July 29, 2015 by pokerpro5

[pokerpro5]

If you're going to remove it, at least have the guts to do it at the beginning of the cruise so everyone assigned knows who you are. Or, were you planning to take it off the last day?

 

You mean so people can punish you for removing it, and then feel foolish when you give a cash tip at the end?

 

BTW, I would be surprised if the crew is informed as to who removes the DSC, unless you state you are removing it because of failures by specific employees/departments. If you simply opt out and say that you don't like the DSC concept, and prefer to tip in cash, I doubt they would tell individual employees about it.

[sjbdtz]

Another terrible Stephen analogy.

 

When I buy a car, I am buying a product. I am not tipping anyone. Nobody is providing a service. When I purchase a vehicle, I pay them a price we agree upon for what I feel the vehicle is worth. Same way I pay the supermarket for a box of cereal. Again, I'm buying a product, and therefore require no visibility into how they spend the money I trade them for that product.

 

Tips/gratuities are an entirely different matter. They are optional. You give them in exchange for adequate/good service. If service is poor, or if you don't receive the service at all, you do not tip. For example, when I carry my own bags up to my hotel room, I don't tip the bellman. When I park my own car, I don't tip the valet.

 

NCL switched to a pooled tipping model to (supposedly) ensure that all of their background service people also get tipped, rather than just the ones you directly interact with (or traditionally tip directly). So they're trying to say that the guy keeping the hallway clean for me is just as deserving of my tips as the guy serving me food. Okay, I can go along with that.

 

But where I can't go along is where a large portion of my tips go to a large group of employees of a service I don't use. I'm referring to the MDR. There are a LOT of MDR employees, and yet I don't eat there at all. And the reason I don't eat there is because I'm utilizing another dining option they provide me -- the specialty restaurants, where I am forced to tip separately.

 

So basically, NCL is saying, "You can eat in the specialties for a fee, PLUS you need to separately tip the employees there, but you also have to tip everyone in the MDR where you DON'T eat."

 

That makes no sense.

 

When you go to a steakhouse at home, I doubt you also stop by Denny's on the way home just to tip the waitress where you DIDN'T eat.

 

Under the previous system, specialty restaurants were part of the DSC pool, so I was fine with some of my tips going to MDR employees, knowing that in turn, MDR diners were also tipping my specialty restaurant servers, so it all evened out.

 

But here I am being forced to tip a large pool of people that aren't serving me, yet the ones serving me are not being tipped on the other end by MDR diners.

 

That's my main problem. NCL broke the whole DSC concept by doing this.

 

Furthermore, I don't like how some of my tips are being used for "team building" or other nonsense. My tips should entirely end up in the hands of NCL employees.

 

As I said before, I suspect that reducing the DSC doesn't even penalize any NCL crew. I am guessing NCL handles the DSC this way:

 

1) They set a constant wage for crew members, and pay them that wage (that is, it's not variable based upon the amount of DSC received).

 

2) If NCL recoups less than that amount through the DSC, they eat the difference. (This is probably why they have raised the DSC twice -- because they were failing to recoup it all!)

 

3) If NCL recoups MORE than that amount, they spend the excess on team building BS.

 

Under the above scenario, you are taking money away from NCL when you reduce the DSC, not the hardworking crew.

 

I cannot be sure this is how it works, but I would be surprised if the truth is too far from the above.

 

Perhaps when I give a cash tip to my steward at the end of the cruise, I will engage him in conversation and see if I can squeeze out of him some more details.

 

 

MY analogy was terrible? :rolleyes:

 

A) Your cruise fare consists of the amount agreed, + port charges, + taxes, + service charges. This aligns exactly with the idea of buying a product. You don't consider that the sales rep at the car dealership is providing a service? I'm pretty sure they think so.

 

 

B) If you would stop conflating 'tips' with the service charge, your mind would rest far easier. NCL is a No Tips Required cruiseline as it pertains to any services provided to all passengers. The cruise fare + the service charge satisfies all of the compensation requirements of crew-members who are not specifically:

 

- Bar Staff

- Kid's Club

- Spa

- Butler

- Concierge

- Specialty Dining Servers

 

 

We are told in the FAQ that tipping is not required. We are further told that there is an option available to adjust the Service Charge if the service is an issue which cannot be addressed.

 

 

D) Why do you have to have your Service Charge covering people whose service you do not use on a particular night? Because those people remain on standby for your convenience. Just like taxes pay for road clearing even though you might be on vacation and have no need of having your roads cleared. The service is available to be rendered at your convenience thanks to the Service Charge. The specialty servers who are not part of that Service Charge have an separate autogratuity as covered in point C.

 

 

 

Stephen

 

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