For those who do not like the fact that DSC is 100% Discretionary...

Beaver1975 · April 7, 2015

First let me say that in 30 years of cruising we always tipped at least the recommended amounts and/or left the DSC alone except one time, which is not the purpose of my post. We are forgetiing where this charge came from. Initially tipping was done on recommended amounts for cabin stewards and restaurent servers based on a daily amount.

Then for "our convenience" those same amounts were added to our bills so we didn't have to bother with cash tipping. No where ever was all this nosense about tipping the laundry staff, restaurent galley workers and so on. I'm sick of hearing how adjusting the charge screws those people.

NCL is screwing with your emotions. Evertytime you check into a land based hotel you tip the maid. Do you really worry about the towel service? Why is the cruise industry different.

Wake up people

...and you have no clue if the maid does or does not tip out to others that assist her.

Cheap is as cheap does!

swedish weave · April 7, 2015

...and you have no clue if the maid does or does not tip out to others that assist her.

Cheap is as cheap does!

I understand the emotional outbursts on this forum, but on the other side of the coin, if the cruise line is ambiguous about how they distribute the money in the DSC, why would it be wrong to opt out of the DSC and tip directly ?

The cruise line could clear this up by being open with their information, but they have chosen to remain silent.

I believe each person should follow their instincts and do what they feel is right. If enough people opt out, maybe the cruise line will open up about the distribution of the DSC.

I have always had excellent service and haven't touched the DSC, but the company may not recognize the people who I feel are most deserving of the funds. In the future, I may join those who wish to reward the service we know we received.

A figure that popped up on the screen on my recent cruise said the ship's laundry had 10 (ten) people working there. If this is correct, it would not take much "tipping out" by the stewards and waitstaff to make those ten jobs VERY lucrative !!!

Edited April 7, 2015 by swedish weave

DirtyDawg · April 7, 2015

I understand the emotional outbursts on this forum.......

What? There have been emotional outbursts on this forum? ;) C'mon, posters are always cool and rational on tipping forums...........and formal wear forums.........and smuggling forums......... and 1+1 = 2 forums around here. :p;)

luddite · April 7, 2015

No, the Cruise Fare Pays the Crew!!!!!:eek::rolleyes:

Well, you are wrong.

And loud.

But mostly and totally....you are ....not correct.

Come back when you understand the system.

maywell · April 8, 2015

Well, you are wrong.
And loud.

But mostly and totally....you are ....not correct.

Come back when you understand the system.

But he still going to comeback even when he doesn't understand zilch anyway....Honestly, is it just me who really doesn't care how the DSC is split up among the crew as long as its paid and I'm don't have to deal with envelopes anytime during the trip? :confused:

luddite · April 8, 2015

But he still going to comeback even when he doesn't understand zilch anyway....Honestly, is it just me who really doesn't care how the DSC is split up among the crew as long as its paid and I'm don't have to deal with envelopes anytime during the trip? :confused:

Oh golly, we all know he'll come back and prove that he doesn't know squat. Can't be helped but we can try to use a bigger hammer in the vain hope of success. Ah well, say 'la Vee'.

You're not the only one who doesn't care how the Service Charge gets divvied.

The crew is happy with the setup and they know they'll get paid rather than the old system where the cheapskate pax would duck them on the last day.

leekel619 · April 8, 2015

froggit i totally support your statement well said

Me too. Seriously, doesn't any of our cruise fare go towards the salary of the employees that run the ship every week?

I'm sure most goes to the officers and store employees, etc. But the stewards, cooks and kitchen staff are equally important. Try having a successful cruise without them.

The whole topic is such a debate on CC and other forums.

leekel619 · April 8, 2015

First let me say that in 30 years of cruising we always tipped at least the recommended amounts and/or left the DSC alone except one time, which is not the purpose of my post. We are forgetiing where this charge came from. Initially tipping was done on recommended amounts for cabin stewards and restaurent servers based on a daily amount.

Then for "our convenience" those same amounts were added to our bills so we didn't have to bother with cash tipping. No where ever was all this nosense about tipping the laundry staff, restaurent galley workers and so on. I'm sick of hearing how adjusting the charge screws those people.

NCL is screwing with your emotions. Evertytime you check into a land based hotel you tip the maid. Do you really worry about the towel service? Why is the cruise industry different.

Wake up people

I'm happy to see the other side for a change. People get so angry and insist that its so super important to fund these salaries on top of our fares, which I'm sure factor in the salaries. The cruise lines do not lose money. They are billion $ industries. They know they have to hire people to run the ship.

I have no problem tipping people. I don't tip everyone though. I don't tip the department store employees for tagging the clothes I purchase and hanging them up, and I don't tip the people at the market for putting the food on the shelves.

I don't feel I should have to tip the behind the scenes employees at NCL just because they don't make a lot of money. I have no idea what they make. Minimum wage? More?

I don't really care about the DSC. We pay it and forget it. But these posts get me all worked up when I read about how my tips support these workers. I thought my cruise fare did that.

That's one reason we will never book a suite. We don't need the services of a butler or concierge. We don't need the extra room for the week vacation.

We live in a big house the other 51 weeks. I don't want to pay extra for what we don't need. We've been offered up-grades and declined.

We are perfectly content with our balcony cabins. We 'splurge' on aft-facing.

I know suites and up are very popular to those that book them. They love the category. The cruise lines are very grateful, also. They make a TON of $$$ on those bookings.

They make $ on every room, inside and up.

We love to cruise!! We have so much fun. Going again May 1!

bjlaac · April 8, 2015

...and you have no clue if the maid does or does not tip out to others that assist her.

Cheap is as cheap does!

....just like you don't know if the cabin steward tips those behind the scenes also

......There no cure for being stupid either

maywell · April 8, 2015

....just like you don't know if the cabin steward tips those behind the scenes also

......There no cure for being stupid either

Just as you don't know if the staff is using the $1 tips you gave them in cash to wipe their rears with it as toilet paper...

Just saying, you don't know neither.....

Beaver1975 · April 8, 2015

....just like you don't know if the cabin steward tips those behind the scenes also

......There no cure for being stupid either

Typical response when someone cannot justify their stance.....attack!

Stupid is as stupid does?

monkeybone · April 8, 2015

The new promo has paid Gratuities as one of the options is that the DSC?

Does that mean NCL is covering that for the workers? or if we pick that as the promo are we stiffing the workers?

S.S.Oceanlover · April 8, 2015

The new promo has paid Gratuities as one of the options is that the DSC?

Does that mean NCL is covering that for the workers? or if we pick that as the promo are we stiffing the workers?

No NCL is not covering that for their workers.

The increased fare you pay covers the workers.

There is no such thing as a free lunch.

Bill

Out to sea! · April 8, 2015

But he still going to comeback even when he doesn't understand zilch anyway....Honestly, is it just me who really doesn't care how the DSC is split up among the crew as long as its paid and I'm don't have to deal with envelopes anytime during the trip? :confused:

Nope, I couldn't care less what they do with the DSC either. I've paid it and don't have to worry about it anymore. Now if someone is a stand out, I may give a few bucks to that person but there is no need to worry about it because the DSC has taken care of my tipping requirement.

Out to sea! · April 8, 2015

I'm happy to see the other side for a change. People get so angry and insist that its so super important to fund these salaries on top of our fares, which I'm sure factor in the salaries. The cruise lines do not lose money. They are billion $ industries. They know they have to hire people to run the ship.

I have no problem tipping people. I don't tip everyone though. I don't tip the department store employees for tagging the clothes I purchase and hanging them up, and I don't tip the people at the market for putting the food on the shelves.

I don't feel I should have to tip the behind the scenes employees at NCL just because they don't make a lot of money. I have no idea what they make. Minimum wage? More?

I don't really care about the DSC. We pay it and forget it. But these posts get me all worked up when I read about how my tips support these workers. I thought my cruise fare did that.

That's one reason we will never book a suite. We don't need the services of a butler or concierge. We don't need the extra room for the week vacation.

We live in a big house the other 51 weeks. I don't want to pay extra for what we don't need. We've been offered up-grades and declined.

We are perfectly content with our balcony cabins. We 'splurge' on aft-facing.

I know suites and up are very popular to those that book them. They love the category. The cruise lines are very grateful, also. They make a TON of $$$ on those bookings.

They make $ on every room, inside and up.

We love to cruise!! We have so much fun. Going again May 1!

People get angry because others go on a cruise knowing exactly what is expected of them which they don't do and then have the audacity to come here and shout it out to the world how they can't follow rules and expectations. If one wants to be cheap, fine, but they should keep it to themselves. If one wants to tell the world of their cheapness they shouldn't be be surprised when the world shouts back "jack***".

IMO, those that are removing the DSC are most likely the ones smuggling, chogging, and cutting in line as they can't or won't follow the rules or expectations.

Out to sea! · April 8, 2015

The new promo has paid Gratuities as one of the options is that the DSC?

Does that mean NCL is covering that for the workers? or if we pick that as the promo are we stiffing the workers?

No NCL is not covering that for their workers.

The increased fare you pay covers the workers.

There is no such thing as a free lunch.

Bill

While I fully agree with Bill concerning a business never pays for anything (they simply add it to what they are charging the customer), in the context of the question asked, yes, NCL is covering the DSC for the cruiser for those who select the free DSC. My question though would be, WHY would anyone select the free DSC? It is the least valuable option available.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Out to sea!

monkeybone · April 8, 2015

While I fully agree with Bill concerning a business never pays for anything (they simply add it to what they are charging the customer), in the context of the question asked, yes, NCL is covering the DSC for the cruiser for those who select the free DSC. My question though would be, WHY would anyone select the free DSC? It is the least valuable option available.

Well for me this time I chose the UDP because I am traveling with a group that has never sailed before and the show the first night will be great for the kids.

If I was traveling with just one other person I would choose the DSC. I don't really drink. If I did drink I get a free drink card from the casino where I spend most of my time. A free dinner from the casino and a free dinner for being Platinum.

If I wanted to eat in another specialty restaurant the casino (CAS) would pick that up as well. Unless of course they have changed something at CAS.

Edited April 8, 2015 by monkeybone

nbsjcruiser · April 8, 2015

It seems some posters have a real issue with DSC on NCL being discretionary and the fact that it can be removed by the guest just for asking without the need to provide any reason whatsover. If it bothers you so much...why continue to patronize a company with policies you do not like?

There are other lines that have all inclusive charges. Or, for example, you can sail with Royal Caribbean which will make you pre-pay gratuities to use their version of Freestyle dining and it is non-refundable no matter the quality of service.

I ask this because whenever NCL changes a policy and people voice concerns or complaints, the standard answer by many is if you don't like the policy, don't pay NCL for a vacation. Well, the question is back to those same people - If you want a company that does not allows DSC to be a discretionary fee, why are you still with NCL?

Here's my take. Its possibly a foot in the door. If the company is successful with this them there will be more and more charges. Decrease in quality will be next, as I have witnessed on RCL these last few years. People complain because they like what they see now. These days, you give a company an inch, they'll take a mile every time so I think a person is smart to stand up for against things like this. You have to keep companies honest or they'll walk all over you if they think they can get away with it.

Whitnee1 · April 8, 2015

We just returned from a RC cruise and during the captains corner the questrion was asked how the staff is paid. I was surprised to hear that wait staff and cabin stewards are paid from tips only. There is a caveat to that. They are guarenteed a minimum pay from tips that if they do not make that the difference is made up from the cruise line. Now this immediately raised a question in my mind in that the only way the cruise line could ascertain what they are making is the portion of the DSC that applies to them based upon who is your steward and waiters. There is no way they would know about additional cash tips that are given on board.

The one and only problem I have with the automatic DSC is I still feel it has diminished the service by some as they know the DSC in most cases is all they will get and will get it regardless of what they do. It has eliminated incentive.

LoveyHowell · April 8, 2015

Look at all these people who dislike the policy, but want the policy in place for themselves just in case, continue to sail NCL, do nothing about it, don't complain to NCL, don't take their money elsewhere.

It's very simple - if you find the policy so bothersome take it up with NCL or spend your money elsewhere, otherwise you don't really have room to pass judgment on anyone else. You either support the current policy, or you don't. Grow a spine and take a position, stop willow wallowing over each side of the fence "Yeah, the policy is great, I just hate other people" is something only someone would say that gets a paycheck from NCL:rolleyes:

C'est La Vie

KevInPitt · April 8, 2015

I’m a little late to this discussion which, like every one of its predecessors, exploded to nearly than 300 posts in a matter of days.

So let’s get the fundamental question answered first: Yes, I support NCL’s policy of a Daily Service Charge subject to adjustment at the guest’s discretion. With that very clearly said with no "willow wallowing" and a spine clearly in place, I would prefer that the use of “at the guest’s discretion” be supplemented with a qualification in some way that adjustment be based on unresolved service issues. However, the Guest Ticket Contract doesn’t have that qualification and leaves adjustment up to the guest’s sole discretion – meaning it is permissible to adjust (or even remove entirely) the Daily Service Charge for no reason at all.

Those that choose to do so with no reason other than they are permitted by the terms should not be vilified. I personally disagree with doing so for no reason other than it is permissible but as is everyone I am entitled to my opinion. I believe the consternation comes from those who wish to effect change in the opinions of others that differ and on this subject the polarization is clearly evident. The most vocal participants to the discussion desperately want to change the opinion of the other side and seemingly will debate the issue ad nauseam. A healthy debate is a good thing but when clearly neither side will concede (or at times even validate) opposing opinion, the debate should end.

Although not central to the original question, it has been interjected throughout this thread (and all the others of the same ilk) that the Daily Service Charge is a gratuity. It is not. It is defined by NCL as a form of employee compensation that is funded in part by the service charge. Compensation and gratuity are, by definition, two different things. Someone in the hospitality industry providing acceptable service should receive compensation. Someone in the hospitality industry providing exceptional service should receive a gratuity. The argument “NCL should be compensating their employees, not me.” as the basis for removing the Daily Service Charge is groundless. NCL has declared how they are, in part, compensating their employees – by imposition of the Daily Service Charge. By removing the Daily Service Charge, because they can in their discretion, the guest is saying “I don’t want to pay that portion of your compensation regardless of the service provided and you give me the unqualified option not to.”. That alone speaks volumes to me about why a guest removes the Daily Service Charge and how likely they are to actually exchange that removed compensation for a gratuity of like value.

Proponents in favor of the Daily Service Charge being subject to adjustment at the guest’s discretion for unresolved service-related issues point to areas of the NCL website where such language can be found. Those opposed retort that the only terms that govern are those of the Guest Ticket Contract and that any such language within the NCL website should be ignored.

I find it interesting that many of those same persons who state, per the Guest Ticket Contract, that the Daily Service Charge is subject to adjustment at the guest’s discretion and any reference elsewhere to a qualification of that discretion should be ignored will point to the NCL website to substantiate their position that NCL has violated the contract vis-à-vis the implementation of a convenience fee for delivery of complimentary room service. If one portion of declarations made within a website can be disregarded as unenforceable then all declarations made on a website can be disregarded as unenforceable.

To those who will remove the Daily Service Charge because you are permitted under the terms of the Guest Ticket Contract to do so, I encourage you to do so. I will continue leave the Daily Service Charge in place and express my judgement of those that remove it for no reason just as they are entitled to express their judgement of me for leaving it in place.

Edited April 8, 2015 by KevInPitt

bjlaac · April 8, 2015

You have said it the way it needs to be said, two different sides of an opinion where neither side believes the other. You are correct the arguement and debate should stop here, but it won't mostly because both sides want to justify their positions.

If it were just that it would be ok, but inevitably, those on both sides raise it beyond a debate and make it personable by name calling and the like. There's no right answer here, I can see both sides. if you leave the DSC alone someone will sooner or later call you stupid or a blind cheerleader. If you adjust it you will be accused of being the lowest of low.

One thing I have gotton out of all these posts is that almost everyone agrees the staff should be compensated and very few remove the DSC "just because they can"

tiffygirl · April 8, 2015

I’m a little late to this discussion which, like every one of its predecessors, exploded to nearly than 300 posts in a matter of days.

So let’s get the fundamental question answered first: Yes, I support NCL’s policy of a Daily Service Charge subject to adjustment at the guest’s discretion. With that very clearly said with no "willow wallowing" and a spine clearly in place, I would prefer that the use of “at the guest’s discretion” be supplemented with a qualification in some way that adjustment be based on unresolved service issues. However, the Guest Ticket Contract doesn’t have that qualification and leaves adjustment up to the guest’s sole discretion – meaning it is permissible to adjust (or even remove entirely) the Daily Service Charge for no reason at all.

Those that choose to do so with no reason other than they are permitted by the terms should not be vilified. I personally disagree with doing so for no reason other than it is permissible but as is everyone I am entitled to my opinion. I believe the consternation comes from those who wish to effect change in the opinions of others that differ and on this subject the polarization is clearly evident. The most vocal participants to the discussion desperately want to change the opinion of the other side and seemingly will debate the issue ad nauseam. A healthy debate is a good thing but when clearly neither side will concede (or at times even validate) opposing opinion, the debate should end.

Although not central to the original question, it has been interjected throughout this thread (and all the others of the same ilk) that the Daily Service Charge is a gratuity. It is not. It is defined by NCL as a form of employee compensation that is funded in part by the service charge. Compensation and gratuity are, by definition, two different things. Someone in the hospitality industry providing acceptable service should receive compensation. Someone in the hospitality industry providing exceptional service should receive a gratuity. The argument “NCL should be compensating their employees, not me.” as the basis for removing the Daily Service Charge is groundless. NCL has declared how they are, in part, compensating their employees – by imposition of the Daily Service Charge. By removing the Daily Service Charge, because they can in their discretion, the guest is saying “I don’t want to pay that portion of your compensation regardless of the service provided and you give me the unqualified option not to.”. That alone speaks volumes to me about why a guest removes the Daily Service Charge and how likely they are to actually exchange that removed compensation for a gratuity of like value.

Proponents in favor of the Daily Service Charge being subject to adjustment at the guest’s discretion for unresolved service-related issues point to areas of the NCL website where such language can be found. Those opposed retort that the only terms that govern are those of the Guest Ticket Contract and that any such language within the NCL website should be ignored.

I find it interesting that many of those same persons who state, per the Guest Ticket Contract, that the Daily Service Charge is subject to adjustment at the guest’s discretion and any reference elsewhere to a qualification of that discretion should be ignored will point to the NCL website to substantiate their position that NCL has violated the contract vis-à-vis the implementation of a convenience fee for delivery of complimentary room service. If one portion of declarations made within a website can be disregarded as unenforceable then all declarations made on a website can be disregarded as unenforceable.

To those who will remove the Daily Service Charge because you are permitted under the terms of the Guest Ticket Contract to do so, I encourage you to do so. I will continue leave the Daily Service Charge in place and express my judgement of those that remove it for no reason just as they are entitled to express their judgement of me for leaving it in place.

Either you or NCL have different definitions of DSC and Gratuity

per ncl.com

What's the service charge?

Why is there a service charge?

The reason there's a fixed service charge is an important one: Our Crew (as are the crew from other lines) is encouraged to work together as a team. Staff members including complimentary restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports

What about Gratuities?

Unlike most other ships in the cruise industry, there is no required or recommended tipping on our ships for service that is generally rendered to all Guests. While you should not feel obligated to offer a gratuity, all of our staff are encouraged to “go the extra mile,” so they are permitted to accept cash gratuities for exceptional or outstanding service if you care to offer them. Also, certain staff positions (e.g., concierge, butler, youth program staff and beverage service) provide service on an individual basis to only some guests and do not benefit from the overall service charge. We encourage those Guests to acknowledge good service from these staff members with appropriate gratuities. Additionally, there is an 18% gratuity and spa service charge added for all spa and salon services, as well as an 18% gratuity and beverage service charge added for all beverage purchases and an 18% gratuity and specialty service charge added to all specialty restaurant dining and entertainment based dining.

So based on your interperation DSC is compensation and not a gratuity, However, NCL removed the specialty waist staff from there DSC pool so they are nolonger getting compensated (DSC), but now are getting a gratituity.

Based your theisis , the part of the staff is providing " acceptable service" (thru part of the Compensation of DSC) and another part of the staff (speciality waitstaff) is "providing exceptional service should receive a gratuity"...that is the 18% auto gratituty that is already placed on the tab BEFORE exceptional service is even rendered.

that does not make sense. Because it looks like NCL is using 'gratuity' to compensate there staff (specifically the staff they removed from the DSC pool. So by there actions, DSC and gratuity are being used for the same puprose.

Or you don't have a correct understanding of DSC and gratitiy according to NCL.

Edited April 8, 2015 by tiffygirl

swedish weave · April 8, 2015

While I fully agree with Bill concerning a business never pays for anything (they simply add it to what they are charging the customer), in the context of the question asked, yes, NCL is covering the DSC for the cruiser for those who select the free DSC. My question though would be, WHY would anyone select the free DSC? It is the least valuable option available.

I don't agree with your comment that the DSc is the least valuable option.

If a person doesn't drink or limits themselves to one or two, and if that person is satisfied with the MDR meals, the DSc option becomes much more valuable than the other two.

gwsster · April 8, 2015

The Average Salary of Cruise Ship Workers

by Robert Morello, Demand Media Google

Cruise ship workers often come from some of the poorest countires in the world.

For those who do not like the fact that DSC is 100% Discretionary...

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