For those who do not like the fact that DSC is 100% Discretionary...

[LMaxwell]

Should and Do are two entirely different things. You already know they don't do this so if you pull your DSC you KNOW you are screwing the staff out of part of their expected earnings. It doesn't matter whether anyone here thinks it is right or not, that is the consequence of their actions.

Yeah but you're kind of a known bully and pushover. You wouldn't reduce your DSC if they spit on you all week. You don't believe that a discretionary charge should be discretionary at all because it is the persons de facto salary, therefore you have completely disassociated the fact that the discretion means you should base it on services rendered, and not out of a sense of guilt. Maybe you see the difference, maybe you don't? Then again weren't you on here last week every other post saying you are never sailing NCL ever again and they can kiss your back end as you walk down the gangplank?

[LMaxwell]

New to NCL. Sorry... What's DSC?

 

It is explained here on page 2 under Service Charges.

 

http://www.ncl.com/sites/default/files/Guest_Ticket_Contract_03_2014.pdf

[crkdad]

In response to the OP's question, I have no issue with the DSC being discretionary, because from a legal stand point, it is required to be discretionary, based on how NCL and other cruise lines market their cruise fares.

 

NCL and other cruise lines do not include the DSC in their marketing brochures as a component of the cruise fare. NCL and other cruise lines would open themselves up to potential litigation from state's consumer protection laws for failure to include a mandatory fee in the base cruise fare or, at least footnoting that it is not included and the amount that will be imposed. NCL and other cruise lines do disclose the DSC or gratuities, but the prominence may be questioned if it were a mandatory fee.

 

However, cruise fares and staff compensation of the base line and mid tier cruise industry has been set up to collect the DSC from passengers. If passengers do not pay the DSC, then NCL still has to pay compensation and it will have to come from somewhere. I suspect that a portion of the increase in DSC is was designed to charge paying passengers for those that have had the DSC removed in the past. Otherwise, NCL will supplement the staff compensation to make up for the under payment and, ultimately will increase fares to compensate for those that have had the DSC removed.

 

Like it or not, in my opinion, the DSC is required and is no different than paying the cruise fare!! (as explained earlier, from a legal standpoint, it is not mandatory).

 

After reading the complaints about the DSC and posters decrying that they will have it removed, I think most of the posters, if not all are just making excuses for getting out of paying the DSC. I have not read a single excuse that, in my opinion, is valid. I will address a few below:

 

1. If a passenger has a problem with the service, then they should complain and allow the cruise line to remedy the problem. If the problem is not corrected and the passenger thinks they should be compensated, then articulate that to the Company and seek compensation through normal channels. If the problem directly relates to service and you are considering removing the DSC, you are punishing each and every employee that has provided you a service over the length of the cruise. Does the issue justify the removal of the entire DSC??

2. "I will remove the DSC and tip as I see fit" Removal of DSC is viewed by a cruise line as a negative rating by a passenger, regardless of the reason. The cruise line gives bonuses based on passenger ratings. Each employees bonus will be negatively affected by your actions. Generally, an employee (other than butlers and concierge) are required to give any cash tips received to the bonus pool or risk termination. Does 100% of cash tips make it to the pool? Probably not, but it is the policy nonetheless. Also, you only see a small part of the 1,000+ crew members that work hard to make sure you have a great cruise. Just because you did not see or meet them does not mean they did not provide services to you.

3. Why do I have to include a DSC for my 3 year old, who did not get any service? Really???? Have you ever walked through the buffet or restaurant and looked at the floor where a high chair has been? there are cherrios scattered in a 3 foot radius around the high chair. Who cleans it up?

4. "implementing the DSC increase or room service fee after I have paid is unfair." Honestly, would you have known about the $0.95 per day pp increase before booking, would you have done anything any different? For 95% of us, I suspect we would have done nothing any different. If you would have, I suspect if you complain to NCL loud enough and your complaint is valid, they might consider refunding your money and cancelling your cruise, even with in the 60 day window. Did you ask?

5. "I am going to protest the increase by having the DSC removed". How does a $0.95 increase justify not paying the entire $12.95??? You knew about the $12.00 when you booked.

6. "Paying $7.50 for a pot of coffee in the morning is outrageous" You are absolutely correct, but it is expensive for a cruise line to pay servers and runners to deliver 100's of pots of coffee every morning all over the ship. NCL is trying to keep their cost in line with the services delivered. If you really, really want a pot of coffee in your room first think in the morning and it is worth $7.50 to you, then that service is available.

 

These are solely my opinions and, no I do not work or have affiliation what so ever with any cruise line.

[legion3]

Customers pay the crew. Same as in any business, the company doesn't pay the bills, taxes and fees-the customers do.

 

What they should do and how it is have no actual reality.

 

On a positive note, thanks for the well-written yet inaccurate posting. It is always nice when folks make a basic stab at using good writing skills.

 

What? :confused:

 

You make no sense at all.

[triptolemus]

Customers pay the crew. Same as in any business, the company doesn't pay the bills, taxes and fees-the customers do.

 

What they should do and how it is have no actual reality.

 

On a positive note, thanks for the well-written yet inaccurate posting. It is always nice when folks make a basic stab at using good writing skills.

 

Yep. You should try it sometime.

[legion3]

6. "Paying $7.50 for a pot of coffee in the morning is outrageous" You are absolutely correct, but it is expensive for a cruise line to pay servers and runners to deliver 100's of pots of coffee every morning all over the ship. NCL is trying to keep their cost in line with the services delivered. If you really, really want a pot of coffee in your room first think in the morning and it is worth $7.50 to you, then that service is available.

 

These are solely my opinions and, no I do not work or have affiliation what so ever with any cruise line.

 

 

IS IT?

 

The DSC pays their wages and frankly what else will they be doing if they are not delivering pots of coffee? They certainly won't be augmenting the waiters or cleaners in the MDR or Lido...will they?

[crkdad]

It is a common misconception on cruise critic that NCL's staff have received huge increases due to the increases in the DSC, room service charges and increases in other fees. All gratuities, Room service charges, the DSC, etc. goes into a employee compensation pool. 100% of this collected fees goes into the pool. However, even with the increases, The pool only covers a PORTION of the employee compensation paid to the crew. It is a very large portion, but it falls short of the total dollars required to pay the crew. The cruise line is responsible for the difference. This "shortfall" has been increasing in recent years due to staff salaries and increases in employee salaries and benefits. The increase in the DSC has decreased this shortfall.

 

Staff compensation is relatively independent of the DSC. Cruise lines set compensation for all employees based on a base salary and bonuses and incentives. Bonuses and incentives for ship personnel are based on customer satisfaction and manager evaluations. Each crew member has a vested monetary incentive to make sure you enjoy your cruise and gives them a good rating. A mention in a comment card, or a comment you make to a manager about a crew member may positively affect that crew member's bonus. If you do not pay the DSC, then that is a negative review against the ship and every crew member that touched the passenger. Their bonus will be negatively affected by the removal of the DSC.

 

With respect to the room service charge comment, if fewer passengers order a single pot of coffee each morning, then the cruise line will need fewer employees. The cruise line's stockholders will be happy because profits will increase and most cruisers will be happy because overall fares did not increase and those that see the benefit of a $7.50 pot of coffee will still be able to enjoy this service.

[Out to sea!]

So the crew gets no pay checks? No wages? And all they get is DSC?

 

So if NCL gives the promotion for free gratuities (in their minds DSC) do the crew not get paid anything for a standard 2 person cabin?

 

If say a family of 4 does the DSC and only the first two get that promotion and the second two go free? NCL gives its crew half-pay?

 

For someone with over 1300 posts and has been here almost 4 years reading posts, I don't believe for one second you don't know this information and you obviously know how the crew in DSC positions earn income but I'll be happy to regurgitate it for those new cruisers who may not know. Earned Income (which you refer to as a "paycheck") is derived from both a set amount (paid by NCL) and part of the DSC (paid by cruisers). If people stiff the DSC portion of the earned income then the pay of certain tipped crew members declines. If you want a land based comparison, consider an employee who earns a base amount and then commission (since the waitress model has been beaten to death). As with any job where earned income is derived from multiple sources, if one part of the source income is lowered or removed, the end pay is reduced. Therefore lowering or removing the DSC for any reason other than poor service is simply screwing over those people who rely on it for part of their earned income.

 

Now, for your question on the free gratuities. First, i believe that those who accept the free gratuities is minimal due to of the 3 options being offered, it has the lowest value (on a 7 night cruise the free DSC = $90.65, free UDP = $140.42 (though it's value to the cruise could be as high as $ 247.80), or free UBP = $412.59) and most people will take the one that gives them the most value. that being said, of those you take the free DSC, it is my opinion (and a farily logical one) that NCL makes up that free DSC out of their coffers (just as they make up the free food or free alcohol from those who take those programs). Therefore, someone who get's the free DSC is simply transferring the responsibility for paying for that to NCL.

[legion3]

OK

 

But if you receive poor service then it's OK to remove or reduce the DSC.

 

If you don't agree with a fee for room service + a required 18% gratuity, would it be appropriate to remove that amount from the DSC?

[Out to sea!]

In response to the OP's question, I have no issue with the DSC being discretionary, because from a legal stand point, it is required to be discretionary, based on how NCL and other cruise lines market their cruise fares.

 

These are solely my opinions and, no I do not work or have affiliation what so ever with any cruise line.

 

Sorry but these two points in your post are completely at odds with each other. You can't state something is legally required (fact based) and then call that your opinion (not fact based).

 

Actually, there is nothing illegal about NCL making the DSC mandatory (and personally, I wish they would). It is purely a marketing ploy to make their fares be as close as possible to their competitors in hope of luring customers to NCL. If NCL included the DSC in their base price or made it a mandatory payment like port charges and taxes, more people would simply choose to sail with someone else because they see NCL as costing more and won't take into consideration why it costs more. All some (many) people see is what the bottom dollar is and not how it is derived. That is why NCL keeps the DSC discretionary......because almost everyone else does and it works. The bad thing is it allows some cheapskates who lower it for any reason other than true poor service to, in effect, get away with murder, just because they can.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Out to sea!

[LMaxwell]

Sorry but these two points in your post are completely at odds with each other. You can't state something is legally required (fact based) and then call that your opinion (not fact based).

 

Actually, there is nothing illegal about NCL making the DSC mandatory (and personally, I wish they would). It is purely a marketing ploy to make their fares be as close as possible to their competitors in hope of luring customers to NCL. If NCL included the DSC in their base price or made it a mandatory payment like port charges and taxes, more people would simply choose to sail with someone else because they see NCL as costing more and won't take into consideration why it costs more. All some (many) people see is what the bottom dollar is and not how it is derived. That is why NCL keeps the DSC discretionary......because almost everyone else does and it works. The bad thing is it allows some cheapskates who lower it for any reason other than true poor service to, in effect, get away with murder, just because they can.

 

Get away with murder, eh?

[spanishguy1970]

i had a discussion with a cousin that sailed her first cruise. her boyfriend (ist time cruiser) suprised her so she had no idea she was cruising until they showed up at the ship.

 

She said she removed the service charges. i asked why? she said she didnt know what it was for so she told them to remove it.

 

i said you have just screwed your room steward, ect. I explained to her what they were for. She covered her hand with her mouth and looked at me in horror. she said she had no clue. she felt absolutely horrible.

 

 

i think a lot of people don't know what the charges are for. they just book a cruise and not aware of what's included or what charges are additional. most big name travel sites do not talk or explain about the DSC. So when they get a the final bill they remove it thinking its a "service charge".

 

 

in the words of judge Judy ignorance of the law is no excuse, in this case ignorance of the rules and contract is no excuse. First time you cruise and go to the front desk is very easy to ask the front desk manager or person what is the DSC for and they are happy to tell you, at least that was my experience. :-)

Edited April 5, 2015 by qtaromar1970

[SeaShark]

 

But if you receive poor service then it's OK to remove or reduce the DSC.

 

 

No, it would not be OK simply on that basis alone.

 

 

If you receive poor service, onboard management will attempt to resolve the issue using the guest satisfaction program guidelines, IF...after exhausting all available avenues for addressing the service deficiency...the guest remains unsatisfied, then (and only then) should the DSC be adjusted.

 

It's worth noting that the DSC covers AT LEAST five (5) basic daily services (Room Clean Up, Breakfast Service, Lunch Service, Dinner Service, Room Turndown). Based on $12.95 per day, that works out to about $2.60 per service. So for example, if you receive poor service during lunch, AND the guest satisfaction program can't resolve the issue, then you can rightly adjust $2.60 off of your total service charge.

[crkdad]

OK

 

 

 

But if you receive poor service then it's OK to remove or reduce the DSC.

 

 

 

If you don't agree with a fee for room service + a required 18% gratuity, would it be appropriate to remove that amount from the DSC?

 

 

If you received "poor service"-- Did you complain and give the cruise line an opportunity to correct the "poor service?" Did you let them know that you were considering adjusting the DSC if it was not corrected? Was the poor service in the dining room or hotel operations? If so, only only the amount of the DSC relating to the service should be adjusted with an explanation to the cruise line so they can correct the issue for future guests. Why would you remove the entire service charge if it was only for a portion of the service.

 

Don't agree with $7.50? In my opinion, it would not be appropriate to remove the DSC. That is an excuse for getting out of paying for a portion of your cruise. If you disagree, don't use the service or don't sail on NCL.

[Out to sea!]

OK

 

But if you receive poor service then it's OK to remove or reduce the DSC.

 

If you don't agree with a fee for room service + a required 18% gratuity, would it be appropriate to remove that amount from the DSC?

 

If someone receives poor service and cannot get management to rectify the situation, then it would be proper to lower the DSC a correlating amount (removing $100 because the waiter forgot to give you a spoon with your dessert would not be a correlating amount). That is the exact reason why the DSC is adjustable.....when service problems arise that cannot for some reason be corrected.

 

Should you adjust the DSC because you don't agree to a certain fee? No. That has nothing to do with service problems. If you don't agree with a particular pricing scheme then you just don't use that service. I rarely eat at specialty restaurants because I think the prices are too high (especially since I have already paid for food in my base payment). Now they have added an additional 18% to that model which will ensure I don't eat at a specialty restaurant at all. if one is not happy with the price of something they should move on and purchase something they are happy with or not purchase anything at all.

 

I will give you an alternative though which I plan on trying in two months on the Sun. My wife wants to go to a specialty restaurant and I will go to the restaurant and make reservations if they agree to not charge the 18%. This will all be negotiated prior to me making the reservation. My reasoning is that when i booked this cruise, all restaurant staff were included in the DSC and I feel that I have already paid the restaurant staff and will not pay twice. The management will have the opportunity to either agree with my request prior to dining or I will not make the reservation. It is completely up to them and therefore I have stiffed no one based on their new DSC policy.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Out to sea!

[LMaxwell]

If you receive poor service, onboard management will attempt to resolve the issue using the guest satisfaction program guidelines, IF...after exhausting all available avenues for addressing the service deficiency...the guest remains unsatisfied, then (and only then) should the DSC be adjusted.

 

According to whom? I mean, I actually agree that DSC removal should be tied to quality of service (and after an opportunity to correct poor service is afforded) but NCL do state it is discretionary and therefore what you've posted above is your opinion (which is fine, like I said I agree with most of it) but it does not represent the company policy accurately.

 

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/discretionary

[LMaxwell]

If you disagree, don't use the service or don't sail on NCL.

 

That was OP"s point. He/she made that clear. If you don't like NCL's policy that DSC is discretionary don't sail with NCL, take your money to another line! It's in the title of the post...

 

I like NCL's policy. So they get my money!

Edited April 5, 2015 by LMaxwell

[triptolemus]

If you received "poor service"-- Did you complain and give the cruise line an opportunity to correct the "poor service?" Did you let them know that you were considering adjusting the DSC if it was not corrected? Was the poor service in the dining room or hotel operations? If so, only only the amount of the DSC relating to the service should be adjusted with an explanation to the cruise line so they can correct the issue for future guests. Why would you remove the entire service charge if it was only for a portion of the service.

 

How is "poor service" corrected, exactly? If I've received poor service, then I've received poor service... it's done. Now, in addition to the poor service, I have to go dick with management or guest services? What is the correction? A bottle of wine? Some chocolates appearing in my stateroom? Free Le Bistro?

 

What if the "poor service" is the fees? Are the fees part of the service, or somehow separated from the umbrella of the service?

[crkdad]

According to whom? I mean, I actually agree that DSC removal should be tied to quality of service (and after an opportunity to correct poor service is afforded) but NCL do state it is discretionary and therefore what you've posted above is your opinion (which is fine, like I said I agree with most of it) but it does not represent the company policy accurately.

 

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/discretionary

 

 

As stated earlier, I believe that it it is discretionary because the cruise line has determined that they must legally state that it is discretionary. That does not mean that removal is the right thing to do.

[LMaxwell]

Now, in addition to the poor service, I have to go dick with management or guest services?

 

That's the good thing about NCL policy. You DON'T have to waste your time with that stuff if you don't want to. That's just someone elses opinion. You're right, once you've gotten bad service it has already happened. Some people want to spend vacation holding meetings with management, others are going to use the mechanisms available for them to do, all completely within the rules. I don't begrudge anyone doing anything that is within the policy. Others clearly have a problem with the policy because whenever someone makes a choice covered by the policy they come out of the woodwork to bash them.

[rochelle_s]

6. "Paying $7.50 for a pot of coffee in the morning is outrageous" You are absolutely correct, but it is expensive for a cruise line to pay servers and runners to deliver 100's of pots of coffee every morning all over the ship. NCL is trying to keep their cost in line with the services delivered. If you really, really want a pot of coffee in your room first think in the morning and it is worth $7.50 to you, then that service is available.

 

These are solely my opinions and, no I do not work or have affiliation what so ever with any cruise line.

 

I was pretty much in agreement to everything you had said until you got to #6.

 

My understanding is that the DSC is charged to us to cover the services of the staff on board. I think most people agree that this makes up the largest part of their compensation. In the past and on all other mainstream cruise lines this includes the services of the room service attendant. So it is not 'expensive for a cruise line to provide servers and runners'... we. the customers, already pay for their services.

 

NCL in this case is not trying to keep their costs in line for services delivered as there is no cost to them for services. Those costs are already being paid through the DSC. A convenience fee added to a room service does not go towards compensating the employee. they have the DSC and now an automatic 18% to do that for them. There is no additional food costs because of room service. You have already paid for the food in your basic cruise fare, the only difference is where you choose to eat it. A convenience fee for room service is an increase to NCL's bottom line.

 

If I really wanted a pot of coffee in the morning last month it was available and so was the person to deliver it to me. The only thing that has changed is that NCL has found a way to profit from it. I don't have a problem with a company making money but I don't agree with this being one of the ways and especially how it has been implemented.

 

 

Rochelle

[LMaxwell]

As stated earlier, I believe that it it is discretionary because the cruise line has determined that they must legally state that it is discretionary. That does not mean that removal is the right thing to do.

Your opinion. Fully allowed to have it and express it. But shouldn't tell people that what your opinion is is the ONLY way to handle something. Even though I am in basic agreement with how you would handle things, because I'd handle it similarly, I wouldn't tell someone else it was the only way or that they were wrong. As long as they play within the rules, it's all fine to me. No one is getting an unnatural advantage that way. If there is a policy and it applies to everyone, everyone has the right to choose what to do within that policy. That's fairness. No one telling you what to do, you not telling anyone else what to do. Everyone having the rules laid out, their options laid out, and then they choose whatever they feel is right, at their own judgment, hence discretionary.

 

NCL doesn't legally have to state it is discretionary. They can remove the discretionary portion and roll it right into the cruise fare. This would result in higher cruise fares, but it would be much more transparent to consumers too. They could even say something like "No service fees" as an advertisement. But they choose not to. They are not legally required to have any particular business model or method.

Edited April 5, 2015 by LMaxwell
spelling

[Out to sea!]

How is "poor service" corrected, exactly? If I've received poor service, then I've received poor service... it's done. Now, in addition to the poor service, I have to go dick with management or guest services? What is the correction? A bottle of wine? Some chocolates appearing in my stateroom? Free Le Bistro?

 

What if the "poor service" is the fees? Are the fees part of the service, or somehow separated from the umbrella of the service?

 

Fees are not poor service. Poor service, for the most part is not a one time incident either but a continuation of something not being done right.

 

Example: My last Carnival cruise a few weeks ago, in the MDR, after 90 minutes, we had still not gotten to the part of dinner where we had even received the dessert menus. Both the couple I was with and ourselves were not happy and left without even seeing what was for dessert. The next night, our friends did not show (the wife was ill) but our server asked if anything was wrong (not knowing the wife was ill......we didn't either until the next morning). I told our server that I didn't know why the other party was not there but I was unhappy with the slowness of service. He apologized and left. A few minutes later the Marte'd came by and asked if there were any problems. I explained to him our unhappiness with the slowness of dinner service. From that night on, we were in and all with all parts of dinner completed in 75 minutes or less. That is correcting poor service. In this case, removal of any portion of the tips is unwarranted, we just didn't give anything else as we normally do for excellent service.

[triptolemus]

And then there's this little gem...

 

If so, only only the amount of the DSC relating to the service should be adjusted with an explanation to the cruise line so they can correct the issue for future guests.

 

Who decides what the amount is? How does one do that? I value my time at about $125 per hour, my wife's at $125 per hour. If I spend 1/2 hour waiting for cold food, no drinks, there's my piss poor service. Then add another 1/2 hour dicking around with management trying to "resolve" the poor service, I'm approaching 100% of the DSC according to my valuation.

[Out to sea!]

And then there's this little gem...

 

 

 

Who decides what the amount is? How does one do that? I value my time at about $125 per hour, my wife's at $125 per hour. If I spend 1/2 hour waiting for cold food, no drinks, there's my piss poor service. Then add another 1/2 hour dicking around with management trying to "resolve" the poor service, I'm approaching 100% of the DSC according to my valuation.

 

Most people wouldn't come close to agreeing with the valuation you have placed on yourself. :p