For those who do not like the fact that DSC is 100% Discretionary...

[maywell]

The guest ticket contract still says discretionary. The website FAQ is not the conteact...

 

Look again - they took out discretionary from Service Charges title (Bold part), the paragraph section for it was longer and was worded differently. The only thing left from old one is the word 'discretion' - But it no longer call Discretionary Service Charges (DSC), its now just called Service Charges. (I'm referring to the Guest Contract - they changed it today from yesterday)

Edited April 5, 2015 by maywell

[LoveyHowell]

Look again - they took out discretionary from Service Charges title (Bold part), the paragraph section for it was longer and was worded differently. The only thing left from old one is the word 'discretion' - But it no longer call Discretionary Service Charges (DSC), its now just called Service Charges. (I'm referring to the Guest Contract - they changed it today from yesterday)

Link? When I search guest ticket contract it says discretionary under service charges and it is the 03/14 version.

[luddite]

Yes , everyone should pay DSC if the service is good. I never remove mine because I am always impressed with their work ethics and friendly, positive attitude on NCL ships.

It isn't a 'Good Service' charge.

In reality, it is the crew's pay.

[Snowrose]

And so ends the sham of the service charge being discretionary. As soon as it looks like a fraction of people will opt out of the discretionary charge, it suddenly is no longer discretionary.

[LoveyHowell]

The FAQ now only says Service Charge, too. It doesn't say discretionary anymore.

 

The FAQ is not the contract. The contract is on the front page of NCL.com And is titled guest ticket contract. Under services charges it says subject to adjustment at your discretion.

[maywell]

The FAQ now only says Service Charge, too. It doesn't say discretionary anymore.

 

 

The FAQ been like that for a month since the Service Charges were increase last month

[Snowrose]

The charge, which is automatically added to your onboard account and subject to adjustment at your discretion, is intended to reward service provided in all departments and job categories and is distributed to employees

according to Carrier's evaluation of job performance.

 

Yes, it still says you can adjust the charge at your discretion, but they've taken out the belief that the charge is itself discretionary.

 

This leaves the door open for them to put a cap of their choice on how much of the service charge you can remove.

[LoveyHowell]

Yes, it still says you can adjust the charge at your discretion, but they've taken out the belief that the charge is itself discretionary.

 

This leaves the door open for them to put a cap of their choice on how much of the service charge you can remove.

 

The guest ticket contract was last changed 3/1/14. Says so right on NCL.com.

[maywell]

. The guest ticket contract wasn't changed yesterday. NCL says last version updated 3/1/14. It says the charge is subject to adjustment at your discretion.

 

It also used to call the service charges as a form of 'gratuities' and section said that customers should show their appreciation to the staff blah, blah, blah. The old one had the Effective 3/1/2014, this new one is 3/2014.

[Snowrose]

The guest ticket contract was last changed 3/1/14. Says so right on NCL.com.

 

Okay... Wouldn't be the first change they've made without updating everything, including the date. They're actually well known for it. Even the Dawn still has restaurants on it that don't actually exist anymore. (Or at least the videos were still there a few weeks ago.)

 

Um, just for the record, Lovey, I've always paid my service charges. All of them. Whether by envelope way back when that was the way to do things, to the way things are done now.

 

I don't have a problem with the service charges - as long as they're reasonable. I have a problem with changes made without notice - especially in the middle of people's cruises.

 

I also have a problem with changes being done in a manner that does not appear to be honest and aboveboard.

 

The proper way to do business is to announce a change, give a start date, and then make the change at that start date. Cruises that started before the change still operate under the old contract that those voyagers started under.

[maywell]

Yes, it still says you can adjust the charge at your discretion, but they've taken out the belief that the charge is itself discretionary.

 

This leaves the door open for them to put a cap of their choice on how much of the service charge you can remove.

 

You're right, you're absolutely right - They're closing the loop on the people that remove / reduce DSC on all fronts - Room service fee and now this...They're going to get their money one form or the other.:(

[LMaxwell]

It also used to call the service charges as a form of 'gratuities' and section said that customers should show their appreciation to the staff blah, blah, blah. The old one had the Effective 3/1/2014, this new one is 3/2014.

When I got an email about the increased DSC it said both discretionary AND gratuity.

 

So, the FAQ, the latest communication direct from NCL, and their contract all say different things, but ultimately what matters is the contract. NCL is going to hold the guest to the contract and the guest is going to hold NCL to the contract (as much as possible as it is a very lopsided contract).

 

The contract always wins out. I like NCL's policy. That is why I have signed up to spend thousands of dollars over the next two years with them. I don't love every single NCL policy and don't care for some of the recent changes (some don't bother me either though, on the other hand), but like I said earlier, I as the guest retain the right to adjust/pay a service charge based on services received, and according to NCL I actually retain the right to adjust it at my discretion, which means whatever I want to think it means. I choose to base it on quality of services, which in my opinion I think is the spirit of the contract, but not the letter, and again, I don't care what strangers do with their money. You seem heavily emotionally invested in trying to prove you support NCL's policy when you don't. So just say you don't like the policy and stop fighting with everyone on this website. I really am starting to think you are paid by NCL to post on here.

[LoveyHowell]

Okay... Wouldn't be the first change they've made without updating everything, including the date. They're actually well known for it. Even the Dawn still has restaurants on it that don't actually exist anymore. (Or at least the videos were still there a few weeks ago.)

 

Um, just for the record, Lovey, I've always paid my service charges. All of them. Whether by envelope way back when that was the way to do things, to the way things are done now.

 

I don't have a problem with the service charges - as long as they're reasonable. I have a problem with changes made without notice - especially in the middle of people's cruises.

 

I also have a problem with changes being done in a manner that does not appear to be honest and aboveboard.

 

The proper way to do business is to announce a change, give a start date, and then make the change at that start date. Cruises that started before the change still operate under the old contract that those voyagers started under.

 

Agree with you 100% on everything you said.

[SJ]

I thought NCL calls the DSC to mean the gratuities we used to pay as the current promo offers free gratuities as one of the freestyle choices. So which is it, service charge or gratuities? I don't think I should pay both if they're different. I don't believe DSC is just a service charge where if someone doesn't pay it, it means we can't get clean sheets and towels or have food be served to us. Minimal service should be included in the price of my ticket, anything additional is for exceptional service; the amount of which is at my discretion. It seems some don't see it this way. What am I missing?

[LMaxwell]

I thought NCL calls the DSC to mean the gratuities we used to pay as the current promo offers free gratuities as one of the freestyle choices. So which is it, service charge or gratuities? I don't think I should pay both if they're different. I don't believe DSC is just a service charge where if someone doesn't pay it, it means we can't get clean sheets and towels or have food be served to us. Minimal service should be included in the price of my ticket, anything additional is for exceptional service; the amount of which is at my discretion. It seems some don't see it this way. What am I missing?

 

 

Not missing anything. Your summary is correct.

[cruzsnooze]

Yes, it still says you can adjust the charge at your discretion, but they've taken out the belief that the charge is itself discretionary.

 

This leaves the door open for them to put a cap of their choice on how much of the service charge you can remove.

 

The charge, which is automatically added to your onboard account and subject to adjustment at your discretion, is intended to reward service provided in all departments and job categories and is distributed to employees

according to Carrier's evaluation of job performance.

 

Proves my point that NCL is not necessarily giving the money to people who served me. More reason to tip in cash as you go along.

[rvsullivan]

You're pretty close to X marks the spot. But even going beyond that I am asking why people continue to spend money with a company that has policies they dislike.

 

When ROOM service fee was added people said if you don't like it, go elsewhere. Then they held up the NCL contract that says NCL can change anything it wants. So NCL is right. But when someone mentions DSC and references that same exact contract, they are wrong. The contract is wrong. People make up new wording to support their stance. Doing something allowed by the Co tract is wrong. They hate that people do it. Cheapskate scumbag. Toad. They are sure no one tips cash even though a cash tip was de rigeur for many generactions.

 

Yet...they continue to sail NCL. Or cash pay checks from them possibly

 

 

I'm going to ask that you go back and read my post. Again, most/none of us supporting DSC have an issue with NCL. Nor do we dispute that you can remove DSC. Our issue is with you!! Of course you can do as you wish. I personally wish you would do the "right thing" by the NCL staff. Your issue is not with them, nor is mine. Your issue is with DSC, my issue is not with DSC. I have no issue with NcL!! You have an issue with NCL's way of handling staff pay. That said, if anyone would/should be leaving NCL it would be you. You have an issue with NCL's model of doing business. We supporters of DSC like NCL's way of doing business, why would we leave?

[maywell]

When I got an email about the increased DSC it said both discretionary AND gratuity.

 

So, the FAQ, the latest communication direct from NCL, and their contract all say different things, but ultimately what matters is the contract. NCL is going to hold the guest to the contract and the guest is going to hold NCL to the contract (as much as possible as it is a very lopsided contract).

 

The contract always wins out. I like NCL's policy. That is why I have signed up to spend thousands of dollars over the next two years with them. I don't love every single NCL policy and don't care for some of the recent changes (some don't bother me either though, on the other hand), but like I said earlier, I as the guest retain the right to adjust/pay a service charge based on services received, and according to NCL I actually retain the right to adjust it at my discretion, which means whatever I want to think it means. I choose to base it on quality of services, which in my opinion I think is the spirit of the contract, but not the letter, and again, I don't care what strangers do with their money. You seem heavily emotionally invested in trying to prove you support NCL's policy when you don't. So just say you don't like the policy and stop fighting with everyone on this website. I really am starting to think you are paid by NCL to post on here.

 

Rvsullivan's post pretty much explains my stance on NCL and DSC better than I explain:

 

I'm going to ask that you go back and read my post. Again, most/none of us supporting DSC have an issue with NCL. Nor do we dispute that you can remove DSC. Our issue is with you!! Of course you can do as you wish. I personally wish you would do the "right thing" by the NCL staff. Your issue is not with them, nor is mine. Your issue is with DSC, my issue is not with DSC. I have no issue with NcL!! You have an issue with NCL's way of handling staff pay. That said, if anyone would/should be leaving NCL it would be you. You have an issue with NCL's model of doing business. We supporters of DSC like NCL's way of doing business, why would we leave?

 

And by the way, they change the contract - its no longer called gratuities, pretty much calling like I've been seeing it all along: its a service charge. I pay my service charges that I'm obligated to pay since i'm going to be using the services and tip those that go the beyond the call of duty for me. Like rvsullivan said, pay what you owe to the staff - the staff overall hasn't done anything rude to me, the least I can do is pay my service charges for the work. How NCL decides to divvy's it up is none of my business...

Edited April 5, 2015 by maywell

[LoveyHowell]

You have an issue with NCL's way of handling staff pay. That said, if anyone would/should be leaving NCL it would be you. You have an issue with NCL's model of doing business. We supporters of DSC like NCL's way of doing business, why would we leave?

 

 

I appreciate the options NCL offers to me. My point is that you and I make choices within the same framework, which is "NCL's way of doing business". I find that "NCL's way of doing business" gives me options to choose from. You and I may select the same option. You and I may select different options. If we choose differently, do I believe you are "wrong"? No. Not at all. I believe you've weighed your options and chose the one that suited you best. No more, no less.

 

Furthermore, you don't have a problem with ME, or any other guest for that matter. Everyone has agreed to the same terms and conditions. If I choose differently from you and you don't like MY choice, take it up with the entity offering those options! It's not like I go outside of the agreed terms and conditions to gain some additional benefit. Why are you concerned with what I choose from a list of options? I don't concern myself with your choices. You're an adult, I trust you to make them. If you feel that you have some moral or ethical obligation to meet, and you feel you've met that, fine. But you can't impose your standards and baseline on everyone else. NCL sets the baseline that we all work in.

 

I just find a certain duplicity reading these boards. "To each their own" followed by "cheapskate" "scumbag" "toad". Yet when I called a person out for lying about something in multiple threads I was told "don't call names". Okay, whatever.

 

The same people using words like "cheapskate" "scumbag" "toad" also tell people to sail another line, sit in your own backyard, don't get on a ship with me. And their way of dealing with odious fees is to bring a giant sippy cup to tank up and fill ziploc bags of food from the buffet. Uh....no wonder my coworker said the other day that NCL stands for No Class Line. I don't believe that is true, but man oh man, some people really DO try to set the bar there. This site is becoming toxic. It is bad publicity for NCL and it is energy draining and depressing. It's like those Disney websites but not quite as creepy. Now, if I were trying to completely circumvent a rule for some gain, violate a law, do something illegal, etc., yes, perhaps some internet wrath is deserved, but short of that, a whole bunch of people on this forum need to stop projecting their incredibly negative attitudes (I do not believe most of them act that way in real life, one or two maybe, but most are probably super nice in real life) and just deal with the fact that they can't control the choices others make. And if they can't deal with that, then yes, they should leave, for their own betterment and well being, and go in an environment more to their personal liking.

[sparkinator]

It seems some posters have a real issue with DSC on NCL being discretionary and the fact that it can be removed by the guest just for asking without the need to provide any reason whatsover. If it bothers you so much...why continue to patronize a company with policies you do not like?

 

There are other lines that have all inclusive charges. Or, for example, you can sail with Royal Caribbean which will make you pre-pay gratuities to use their version of Freestyle dining and it is non-refundable no matter the quality of service.

 

I ask this because whenever NCL changes a policy and people voice concerns or complaints, the standard answer by many is if you don't like the policy, don't pay NCL for a vacation. Well, the question is back to those same people - If you want a company that does not allows DSC to be a discretionary fee, why are you still with NCL?

 

Why should anyone have to go onto a forum and justify their loyalty to a certain brand? I feel like supporting them, even if I don't agree with ALL of their policies. I'd just as soon them charge the DSC without the option of removing it, but I probably don't agree 100% with anyone or any company.

 

Why do certain posters seek justification for making 'controversial' decisions concerning their own charges? Is it guilt? I don't know, you tell me.

[NLH Arizona]

a whole bunch of people on this forum need to stop projecting their incredibly negative attitudes (I do not believe most of them act that way in real life, one or two maybe, but most are probably super nice in real life) and just deal with the fact that they can't control the choices others make. And if they can't deal with that, then yes, they should leave, for their own betterment and well being, and go in an environment more to their personal liking.

Have to agree with this, when I disagreed with some about the new 18 percent gratuity for the specialty restaurants, I was called an idiot, unintelligent, saying I don't get it, etc., just because I disagreed with them and relayed information I received from NCL (which BTW happened to be correct, even though I was accused of making it up). It seemed to me that some on here just don't want someone to disagree with them and only want posts that agree with their point of view to be on here, I'm guessing, so that NCL only sees their point of view. People need to understand that not everyone feels the same what they do and that people can agree to disagree without being rude.

 

BTW, even on this thread someone told another to take their money to a company that has policies they approve of, so it happens all the time.

Edited April 5, 2015 by NLH Arizona

[LoveyHowell]

Have to agree with this, when I disagreed with some about the new 18 percent gratuity for the specialty restaurants, I was called an idiot, unintelligent, saying I don't get it, etc., just because I disagreed with them and relayed information I received from NCL (which BTW happened to be correct, even though I was accused of making it up). It seemed to me that some on here just don't want someone to disagree with them and only want posts that agree with their point of view to be on here, I'm guessing, so that NCL only sees their point of view. People need to understand that not everyone feels the same what they do and that people can agree to disagree without being rude.

 

Absolutely

[NLH Arizona]

Absolutely

I think you missed my last sentence, since I added it late. There is even an example of the rudeness you talk about on this thread:

 

BTW, even on this thread someone told another to take their money to a company that has policies they approve of, so it happens all the time.

[sparkinator]

It does not say removable for only a service problem. On the FAQ that is one example stated. The guest ticket contract, which supersedes the website FAQ anyways, says the charge is discretionary.

 

If you do not support the fact that it is 100% discretionary you should not pay NCL for a vacation. Take your money to a company that has policies you approve of.

 

Maybe you just like to have a reason to be judgmental of people.

 

NLH Arizona

I think you missed my last sentence, since I added it late. There is even an example of the rudeness you talk about on this thread:

 

BTW, even on this thread someone told another to take their money to a company that has policies they approve of, so it happens all the time.

 

I wonder who that was?

[LoveyHowell]

I wonder who that was?

 

That's right, I suggested that people patronize a company that more aligns with their personal feelings, whether that be a more upscale/all-inclusive line or another mass market line that's got stricter policies. Less reason to be agitated over choices others make.

 

What I didn't do was call people scumbags, cheapskates, toads, or otherwise talk down in a judgmental tone.