What should be included in basic fare

[John&LaLa]

Be careful what you wish for. If they start charging for the shows, flow riders, zip lines, trivia games, libraries, etc., then some of the people who would have been doing those things will back out and crowd your "free" spaces that you use. :eek:

 

This makes me think about the new slides. Make them free some of the time and for a fee part of the time. That could control the crowds. Kind of like private time on flowrider

[DirtyDawg]

Be careful what you wish for. If they start charging for the shows, flow riders, zip lines, trivia games, libraries, etc., then some of the people who would have been doing those things will back out and crowd your "free" spaces that you use. :eek:

 

LOL I'm thinking they should transform the theater into a two story shopping mall. That would resolve my "free" space issue.:D:p

Edited May 19, 2015 by DirtyDawg

[LMaxwell]

This makes me think about the new slides. Make them free some of the time and for a fee part of the time. That could control the crowds. Kind of like private time on flowrider

 

A Flowrider is something where one has to learn and become adept at the sport, so it is only natural that RCI sell time for private lessons, as well as selling time so that more advanced users can have more personal time or perform more stunts, etc.

 

A water slide is kind of a passive ride. There's not much skill or too many different ways to do it. And no cruise ship park is anything close to a land based (fee based) waterpark. I think charging (at any time) for waterslides would be a black eye for RCI and kind of a laughing point when no other company charges for slides.

 

 

So; what do I think should be included in the base fare?

 

MDR and buffet food, pool use, room cleaning and re-stocking, entertainment, free access to most venues, etc...

 

In short, I think the cruise model is still a viable model and it used to be a differentiation from other means of travel or vacation. It was an inclusive model (not ALL inclusive, but mostly inclusive). You could spend more on spa, photos, drinks, art auctions, and excursions. Everything else was pretty much baked in. You set foot on the ship and didn't have to look to see if every place you stepped or anything you bit into incurred an extra nominal fee.

 

I think the issue now is that what is included is becoming a little bit threadbare and needs some vim and vigor put into it. Taking service levels and amenities up a step while still following the basic cruise holiday model of inclusiveness. More egalitarian. Less race to zero.

 

The more a cruise becomes like staying at other land based places (fees left and right, lines and crowds, managing dining versus entertainment) the less likely I am to cruise because at least at a land resort when I hit "overload" I can just leave the resort grounds. It's why I'm not a big fan of going to Disney. It is unrelaxing to me and I get burned out on all the upsell opportunities.

 

I don't personally have a big need for internet on a cruise and pass what I consider high costs for the service, but I 100% understand that lots of people need to be connected for work, or couldn't otherwise vacation. I think within the next few years we are going to see WiFi become free, or a small/slower plan be free for everyone. Carnival now has a very, VERY low cost daily plan that gives people social media access, which is probably what a lot of people really wanted anyways.

 

Just my three cents.

[LuCruise]

I would like to see cruise lines include the gratuities / daily service charge in the base fare and pay their staff a decent wage. Same with any onboard purchases or services. Include any gratuity / service charge in the price of the good or service. If the charge is mandatory, include it in the upfront price. If I then want to reward exceptional service with an additional gratuity, I will.

 

Cruise prices are increasing as it is, so can't see them adding gratuities to the base price as this would increase the upfront cost that people see. It may turn passengers away.

 

I agree with including non alcoholic drinks. When I cruised RCL in 1997 and even 2001, I thought these were included. Or am I remembering incorrectly?

 

Also, I'd like them to put the DreamWorks Character breakfast back to being included. It's in the MDR and apparently the same menu so why charge for it?

Edited May 19, 2015 by LuCruise

[LMaxwell]

I agree with including non alcoholic drinks. When I cruised RCL in 1997 and even 2001, I thought these were included. Or am I remembering incorrectly?

 

I remember some soft drinks being included.

[legaljen1969]

And that is equitable because?????

 

Just saying that we all probably pay a little for something we don't use. I didn't see any shows the last cruise, but since the entertainment is part of my fare, I paid for something I did not use. Maybe you paid your full cruise fare and did not eat in the Windjammer. I don't know. We all pay for a few things we don't use because they are included in our fare.

 

I agree that folks who do drink alcohol and premium coffees should pay for packages. I do. You are right. You should not have to pay for my bar tab as part of your fare. There are some things that should be "pay as you go."

 

I was just saying that in the basic cruise fare, we all likely pay for something we don't use. I like having the option to use things, but I don't always use everything I pay for.

[Paul65]

Cruise prices are increasing as it is, so can't see them adding gratuities to the base price as this would increase the upfront cost that people see. It may turn passengers away.

 

I agree with including non alcoholic drinks. When I cruised RCL in 1997 and even 2001, I thought these were included. Or am I remembering incorrectly?

 

Also, I'd like them to put the DreamWorks Character breakfast back to being included. It's in the MDR and apparently the same menu so why charge for it?

 

I think you're remembering incorrectly. My first RCL cruise was in the early nineties. They had the daily packages for sodas or you could buy them individually. There was no "freestyle" soda machines then, but you did have a special cup that could be filled at any of the bars, if you bought the soda package. They had lemonade, tea, and water available at no extra charge.

[John&LaLa]

A Flowrider is something where one has to learn and become adept at the sport, so it is only natural that RCI sell time for private lessons, as well as selling time so that more advanced users can have more personal time or perform more stunts, etc.

 

A water slide is kind of a passive ride. There's not much skill or too many different ways to do it. And no cruise ship park is anything close to a land based (fee based) waterpark. I think charging (at any time) for waterslides would be a black eye for RCI and kind of a laughing point when no other company charges for slides.

 

 

So; what do I think should be included in the base fare?

 

MDR and buffet food, pool use, room cleaning and re-stocking, entertainment, free access to most venues, etc...

 

In short, I think the cruise model is still a viable model and it used to be a differentiation from other means of travel or vacation. It was an inclusive model (not ALL inclusive, but mostly inclusive). You could spend more on spa, photos, drinks, art auctions, and excursions. Everything else was pretty much baked in. You set foot on the ship and didn't have to look to see if every place you stepped or anything you bit into incurred an extra nominal fee.

 

I think the issue now is that what is included is becoming a little bit threadbare and needs some vim and vigor put into it. Taking service levels and amenities up a step while still following the basic cruise holiday model of inclusiveness. More egalitarian. Less race to zero.

 

The more a cruise becomes like staying at other land based places (fees left and right, lines and crowds, managing dining versus entertainment) the less likely I am to cruise because at least at a land resort when I hit "overload" I can just leave the resort grounds. It's why I'm not a big fan of going to Disney. It is unrelaxing to me and I get burned out on all the upsell opportunities.

 

I don't personally have a big need for internet on a cruise and pass what I consider high costs for the service, but I 100% understand that lots of people need to be connected for work, or couldn't otherwise vacation. I think within the next few years we are going to see WiFi become free, or a small/slower plan be free for everyone. Carnival now has a very, VERY low cost daily plan that gives people social media access, which is probably what a lot of people really wanted anyways.

 

Just my three cents.

 

You apparently don't visit theme parks like Disney or Universal. Are you aware of the fast pass systems they are using. Pay $80, skip the line, pay $40, reserve a slot. Some folks don't like lines and are willing to pay.

You even see it on public roads with hot lanes.

 

On a ship, the attractions have limited hours, zip line, flowrider, rock wall, etc. Expand those hours with pay time.

 

You're a smart guy, do you think every passenger on Anthem has a chance to go up in the North Star at 15 passengers per trip?

 

I don't know what the cycle time is, but let's say it takes 10 minutes to load, ride and unload. That is 6 trips an hour for 90 passengers. That would require 45 hours of operation. That might work on a 12 night trip, but difficult on a 7, and impossible on a 2 or 3 night teaser cruise

Edited May 19, 2015 by John&LaLa

[LMaxwell]

You apparently don't visit theme parks like Disney or Universal. Are you aware of the fast pass systems they are using. Pay $80, skip the line, pay $40, reserve a slot. Some folks don't like lines and are willing to pay.

You even see it on public roads with hot lanes.

 

On a ship, the attractions have limited hours, zip line, flowrider, rock wall, etc. Expand those hours with pay time.

 

You're a smart guy, do you think every passenger on Anthem has a chance to go up in the North Star at 15 passengers per trip?

 

I've been to Disney and Universal, but I pretty much opt out at every opportunity. I'm not really a big fan of rides or big crowds. I don't like the lines and crowds, but I'm not so hot on seeing any attraction that the extra cost is worth it, you know what I mean? I'd rather not be there to start with. Trips like that aren't even vacation to me. I get home and I am exhausted, it seems like most of the trip involves wandering gift shops or standing in lines in the heat.

 

More power to the people that love it, they can have my spot in line.

 

As far as your North Star question, no I do not believe every passenger would have an opportunity to use it. But I still don't like the idea of adding a fee for those that want some type of guaranteed slot.

 

I think the classic cruising model only needs a shot in the arm for service and amenities. I would not go drastically altering the overall model of an inclusive-style vacation. That's only my opinion, I don't make the decisions.

[davy jones]

OK, I'll add my $0.02. You can determine if it is worth it.

 

Short version. Ths list is not much different that that which has been traditionally offered. These are the things that the large majority of cruisers use daily. Any beefs that I have are with charging for things that were previously included. Just stop the cuts and nickle and diming.

 

Longer list:

1. Cabin and cabin service, with reasonable toiletries.

2. Food: MDR (with good food and service), buffet, snacks, casual and quick eateries and no fee room service, similar to what was offered until recently. Extra pay eateries with a true upscale experience are OK, but MDR quality and service should not be reduced.

3. Decent coffee, tea, iced tea, lemonade, and juice available 24-7. One should not have to pay to get decent coffee (my definition of decent is diner or Dunkin coffee). Fancy coffee drinks are a different discussion. I don't drink them, but Espresso, cappucino in MDR at dinner would be a nice touch)

4. All onboard entertainment, activities, and shows. (A mixology class can be free for the entertainment and information, but charge a sampling fee.)

5. Children's programs. (Don't use, but it is their entertainment)

6. Pool, exercise center, hot tubs, pool towels, loungers. Exercise is some people's form of entertainment. I exercise on my own, but basic exercise and aerobic classes should be included. The instructor is similar to the trivia leader, only wearing workout clothes.

7. I like automatic gratuities. It is one less thing that I have to worry about and can budget for. I am concerned about increasing gratuities at the same time that service levels are being cut.

 

There are things onboard that we use and pay for. I'm OK with that because many people do not use them or use them very little. Examples are spa services, soda and alcohol, lattes, ice cream drinks, pictures, and internet (not necessarily a complete list)

[Paul65]

OK, I'll add my $0.02. You can determine if it is worth it.

 

I think you were pretty spot on. The only place I might disagree with you is in things like mixology classes or exercise classes. There might be things like, say, bar demos or latin dance classes that are held for entertainment and in venues that can accommodate everyone who might be interested. The more specialized "classes" allow more personal attention, and that is something that seems reasonable to pay for.

 

That said, I haven't participated in any for-fee exercise classes, but I have done things like wine tastings, mixology classes, or cocktail seminars. These are held in public spaces, where anyone can watch, if they want, but if you're sitting directly at the bar, I think the immediate area around the bartender/mixologist should be for those participating in the class. But other people in the vicinity are free to watch/listen.

[davy jones]

That said, I haven't participated in any for-fee exercise classes, but I have done things like wine tastings, mixology classes, or cocktail seminars. These are held in public spaces, where anyone can watch, if they want, but if you're sitting directly at the bar, I think the immediate area around the bartender/mixologist should be for those participating in the class. But other people in the vicinity are free to watch/listen.

 

I agree that those just listening should sit away from the bar. Perhaps I just assumed that people would do that as a courtesy to the samplers and bartenders.

[John&LaLa]

I agree that those just listening should sit away from the bar. Perhaps I just assumed that people would do that as a courtesy to the samplers and bartenders.

 

Using Rising Tide for martini class is brilliant. Once she arrives in CP it is quiet and could be restricted if they can remember to turn off door sensors. ;)

[Ocean Boy]

You apparently don't visit theme parks like Disney or Universal. Are you aware of the fast pass systems they are using. Pay $80, skip the line, pay $40, reserve a slot. Some folks don't like lines and are willing to pay. You even see it on public roads with hot lanes.

 

On a ship, the attractions have limited hours, zip line, flowrider, rock wall, etc. Expand those hours with pay time.

 

You're a smart guy, do you think every passenger on Anthem has a chance to go up in the North Star at 15 passengers per trip?

 

I don't know what the cycle time is, but let's say it takes 10 minutes to load, ride and unload. That is 6 trips an hour for 90 passengers. That would require 45 hours of operation. That might work on a 12 night trip, but difficult on a 7, and impossible on a 2 or 3 night teaser cruise

 

This is what I never understood about the program. Suppose a good majority of folks decide to by into the fast pass. Doesn't that just put everyone back into lines that they paid to avoid? It is just like being on a Southwest flight when a lot of passengers on the flight buy into the early bird check in. You pay extra and don't end up with a boarding position much better than what you were trying to avoid in the first place.

[John&LaLa]

This is what I never understood about the program. Suppose a good majority of folks decide to by into the fast pass. Doesn't that just put everyone back into lines that they paid to avoid? It is just like being on a Southwest flight when a lot of passengers on the flight buy into the early bird check in. You pay extra and don't end up with a boarding position much better than what you were trying to avoid in the first place.

 

Personally I've never done it. It must be working, maybe they restrict the amount they sell or monitor the available slots when you request a time. I do know that the people who buy the expensive pass walk right to the front and get on. This was the case at 6 flags in Atlanta two weeks ago.

 

As far as the water slides go, they could add a few sessions for a fee, give it a catchy name, and restrict entry for an hour or so. If people see value in it, they will pay $10 or $20, I might

Edited May 19, 2015 by John&LaLa

[janrey1234]

Disney fastpass doesn't cost extra. I don't know the current rules but you were limited to the number of fast passes you could do in a time period and each ride had a limited number of fastpasses for times. When it ran out a new time popped up. Google fastpass, the new version seems a bit better than the old. They may sell passes that allow you to avoid lines as well as companies have passes that allow employees into special rooms and fastpass on some rides.

[A2Mich]

Disney fastpass doesn't cost extra. I don't know the current rules but you were limited to the number of fast passes you could do in a time period and each ride had a limited number of fastpasses for times. When it ran out a new time popped up. Google fastpass, the new version seems a bit better than the old. They may sell passes that allow you to avoid lines as well as companies have passes that allow employees into special rooms and fastpass on some rides.

 

 

At least on the standard one day admission ticket, you have unlimited fast pass uses--BUT you are allowed to book 3 the first time. After you have used all 3 (and this is important), you can schedule ONE AT A TIME. However, you HAVE to complete your fast pass ride, and THEN you can book another---all one at a time after the initial 3. Now, the problem is that while you theoretically have unlimited fast pass uses, being able to only have one scheduled at a time, you are limited to the available times on the screen. So while you may oh theory have unlimited fast pass uses, you may still only get on a handful of rides in a day if depending on the fast pass. We walked over to Fantasyland first when we got there are found a few rides with only 10-15 minute waits, so went on them right away, and had the fast pass rides scheduled for early afternoon. Also note that not every ride is available for fast pass use either.

[Ocean Boy]

At least on the standard one day admission ticket, you have unlimited fast pass uses--BUT you are allowed to book 3 the first time. After you have used all 3 (and this is important), you can schedule ONE AT A TIME. However, you HAVE to complete your fast pass ride, and THEN you can book another---all one at a time after the initial 3. Now, the problem is that while you theoretically have unlimited fast pass uses, being able to only have one scheduled at a time, you are limited to the available times on the screen. So while you may oh theory have unlimited fast pass uses, you may still only get on a handful of rides in a day if depending on the fast pass. We walked over to Fantasyland first when we got there are found a few rides with only 10-15 minute waits, so went on them right away, and had the fast pass rides scheduled for early afternoon. Also note that not every ride is available for fast pass use either.

 

And people think that booking the entertainment on Oasis and Allure is complicated?:eek:

[A2Mich]

And people think that booking the entertainment on Oasis and Allure is complicated?:eek:

 

 

Exactly. And, while I may be wrong, it seems as if Disney is allowing even higher attendance numbers at the parks. I don't ever remember the Magic Kingdom being that crowded, and I wonder if the FastPass system was implemented in order to allow more people into the parks, as with FastPass, you're all but guaranteed to get on at least a FEW rides. But, at over $100 per person per day (based on single day passes only, BTW), standing in line for an hour and a half to two hours for any rides is unacceptable. If unable to keep the lines moving faster (which probably isn't really possible), then Disney should be limiting the number of guests per day in order to allow every guest to experience as much as possible. But, they allow the ridiculous crowds to make more money and also to encourage multiple days at any given park.

[LuCruise]

And people think that booking the entertainment on Oasis and Allure is complicated?:eek:

 

I'm confused what Disney FastPass has to do with 'what should be included in base cruise price'??? I certainly wouldn't want them to start charging for FastPass at Disney or any entertainment and activities (outside of specialized classes) on cruises.

 

But agree with this comment. We went to Disney last year (which I LOVED FastPass by the way), and yes...Disney was a ton of planning....which makes Allure planning seem so minimal. I don't have enough to plan....ha ha.

[Big_G]

I think you're remembering incorrectly. My first RCL cruise was in the early nineties. They had the daily packages for sodas or you could buy them individually. There was no "freestyle" soda machines then, but you did have a special cup that could be filled at any of the bars, if you bought the soda package. They had lemonade, tea, and water available at no extra charge.

 

Actually, when we started cruising in the late nineties the soda was free in the MDR. I don't know about the bars because I never ordered a soda at a bar.

[John&LaLa]

I'm confused what Disney FastPass has to do with 'what should be included in base cruise price'??? I certainly wouldn't want them to start charging for FastPass at Disney or any entertainment and activities (outside of specialized classes) on cruises.

 

But agree with this comment. We went to Disney last year (which I LOVED FastPass by the way), and yes...Disney was a ton of planning....which makes Allure planning seem so minimal. I don't have enough to plan....ha ha.

 

Fast pass entered thread whe I suggested having a few sessions of charging for water slides