Carnival Orders 4 New Ships

[London-Calling]

Yes but I would rather have a huge atrium or ice skating rink than have the same space filled with cabins.

 

Although ships like Quantum and Breakaway are astonishing, the desire to pack the ships with 20+ dining rooms, retail spaces and multiple entertainment venues, leaves little room for "wow" spaces.

 

Tall atriums and double/triple height rooms become too much of a luxury.

 

IMHO if a room is not at least double height in CANNOT be truly impressive.

 

I find this trend a bit sad.

[Wilgr]

Please, you're comparing an LNG fueled ship with a drill rig blow-out? Not even in the same category of risk.

 

LNG carriers have been sailing the oceans since the '70's, and there has never been a single fire or explosion of the LNG, even when these ships experience an engine room fire, or a grounding. And these ships carry vastly more LNG than a cruise ship ever would.

 

No reason to confuse the issue with facts....the haters have spoken.....why they are doing it here I have no idea. (giving DD a handy I guess)

[eroller]

Although ships like Quantum and Breakaway are astonishing, the desire to pack the ships with 20+ dining rooms, retail spaces and multiple entertainment venues, leaves little room for "wow" spaces.

 

Tall atriums and double/triple height rooms become too much of a luxury.

 

IMHO if a room is not at least double height in CANNOT be truly impressive.

 

I find this trend a bit sad.

 

 

At least with QUANTUM there are still some very impressive multi-height spaces. Two70, Seaplex, Solarium, indoor pool, show lounge, Music Hall, elevator atrium, and the Royal Esplanade. The Breakaway Class not nearly as many as spaces are maximized for revenue (restaurants and cabins). Funny enough I actually preferred GETAWAY over QUANTUM. Hard to pinpoint why, but just the overall feeling and ambiance I suppose. It just worked.

 

On the new CARNIVAL VISTA there has been a shameless shrinking of public space in the name of more cabins. They are squeezed in places where frankly cabins don't belong. I can only imagine what these new ships will be like, with Carnival accountants dictating the design.

[cjknox]

Exactly and Micky Arison also publicly stated that Carnival had no intentions of building such massive ships. My how times have changed. Now they will be touting these cattle carriers as the best thing since sliced bread.

 

Well, Micky is no longer the decision maker and John is a social spokesman of sorts, so this is a pretty moot point. Obviously Arnold has had other ideas; and from the various decisions and moves he's made since his appointment it's obvious he has a different business sense/style than Micky does. I have no doubt that if Micky was still CEO we wouldn't be having this discussion right now about an 180,000 ton vessel, let alone one powered by liquefied natural gas.

[eroller]

 

Well, Micky is no longer the decision maker and John is a social spokesman of sorts, so this is a pretty moot point. Obviously Arnold has had other ideas; and from the various decisions and moves he's made since his appointment it's obvious he has a different business sense/style than Micky does. I have no doubt that if Micky was still CEO we wouldn't be having this discussion right now about an 180,000 ton vessel, let alone one powered by liquefied natural gas.

 

 

Oh I think Micky is still part of the decision making process. He is still Chairman of the Board and a major stockholder. No doubt he still has major influence, but has stepped back to a certain extent. The press release actually states that Micky has been involved with the design of these new ships.

 

These are exceptionally efficient ships with incredible cabins and public spaces featuring a design inspired by Micky Arison and Michael Thamm and developed by our new build teams.

[London-Calling]

Funny enough I actually preferred GETAWAY over QUANTUM. Hard to pinpoint why....

 

Me too.

 

I'm not sure why either, apart from the Waterfront which is a very nice feature giving the 'Breakaway' & 'Plus' classes a real advantage.

 

I still can't see how Carnival can find more space on-board their new ships? Sounds like a marketing bluff to me.

 

I bet they move to some form of 'flexible' dining like RCI now have.

[eroller]

Me too.

 

I'm not sure why either, apart from the Waterfront which is a very nice feature giving the 'Breakaway' & 'Plus' classes a real advantage.

 

I still can't see how Carnival can find more space on-board their new ships? Sounds like a marketing bluff to me.

 

I bet they move to some form of 'flexible' dining like RCI now have.

 

 

In the case of the Aida ships (two of these new builds and maybe more will go to Aida), they already have flexible dining and most of the restaurants are buffet style. In addition they don't have turn-down service in the cabins. All that adds up to much lower crew requirements so there is some of the space savings. Also Aida doesn't have traditional show lounges. The atrium becomes sort of a "theater in the round". Definitely duel purpose and eliminates the need for a large show lounge up front.

 

Now if the other two go to Costa, I would anticipate more design challenges as at least to date, Costa is a far more traditional cruise experience. Two sittings for dinner and the large show lounge up front. Those massive spaces plus the crew to support them take up valuable space that could otherwise be used for more passenger revenue cabins or additional LNG tank space. ;)

 

No matter how I look at it I just see these ships being VERY crowded. I also don't have a lot of confidence in Carnival Shipbuilding being innovative. They have pretty much played it safe, usually opting for revenue enhancing features like more cabins over anything innovative or amenity driven. The Aida concept is innovative, but Carnival doesn't get credit for that. Aida was already established when Carnival acquired them. I do give Carnival credit though for taking the plunge and being the first cruise line to implement LNG powered ships. The last truly innovative thing Carnival did was some 17 years ago with CARNIVAL ELATION, the first cruise ship with propulsion by Azipods.

[chengkp75]

 

The last truly innovative thing Carnival did was some 17 years ago with CARNIVAL ELATION, the first cruise ship with propulsion by Azipods.

 

And azipods are still having teething problems today. :D

[bruadhin]

And azipods are still having teething problems today. :D

 

I was thinking the same thing. Is it just me, or does it seem Carnival has more problems with them than the other cruise lines?

[chengkp75]

I was thinking the same thing. Is it just me, or does it seem Carnival has more problems with them than the other cruise lines?

 

No, RCI has just as many, if not more recently. I think that Carnival has just been bitten at times where they can leave one pod out of service for quite some time due to itinerary and drydock timing, so it seems it drags on forever. RCI bit the bullet and spent a bundle of money building the cofferdams so Oasis class could repair pods in Freeport, I think they are just more itinerary sensitive and repair their pods in a more timely fashion to prevent lost revenue.

[TruckerDave]

I'm surprised it took 4 pages for the "fear and panic" crowd to weigh in. :rolleyes:

 

I do think the choice of LNG is interesting though. Will be interested to see how the designers incorporate everything into the final design.

[London-Calling]

I also don't have a lot of confidence in Carnival Shipbuilding being innovative.

 

No they don't innovate, they just make money!;)

 

I really admire RCI's 'Oasis' class for the fact that it has spaces like central park, the boardwalk, studio-B and the Royal promenade. These spaces could have easily been filled with cabins, shops and surcharge dining.

 

I bet the 180,000gt Carnival newbuilds will not have room for any real "wow" spaces!

 

I wonder when we get to see the first renderings?

Edited June 18, 2015 by London-Calling

[eroller]

No they don't innovate, they just make money!;)

 

 

 

 

True although not quite like they used to. Carnival used to be the golden boy of the cruise industry. Everything they touched turned to gold. Now I would rather have my money invested in Royal Caribbean. Much better return on your investment over the past couple years compared to Carnival. Times have changed and one thing is for sure, bigger is not always better. Just look at McDonalds and Walmart. They are the biggest, but both are mediocre companies at best.

[eroller]

 

I wonder when we get to see the first renderings?

 

 

Don't get your hopes up. It will probably end up looking like CARNIVAL VISTA with some LNG tanks thrown on top! LOL Carnival loves to call ships "new" designs, when in fact most of the time they are just old designs that have been tweaked to add more cabins! Throw on a deck of cabins here, eliminate a lounge there and add more cabins, and voila … a new design! :rolleyes:

[jimbo5544]

True although not quite like they used to. Carnival used to be the golden boy of the cruise industry. Everything they touched turned to gold. Now I would rather have my money invested in Royal Caribbean. Much better return on your investment over the past couple years compared to Carnival. Times have changed and one thing is for sure, bigger is not always better. Just look at McDonalds and Walmart. They are the biggest, but both are mediocre companies at best.

A Walmart reference, knew that would come out, original; and thought provoking. How much is RCI in hock for all their new builds?

[Gryffindor55]

A Walmart reference, knew that would come out, original; and thought provoking. How much is RCI in hock for all their new builds?

 

How much are people willing to pay for their new builds versus the same old from Cutback Cruise Line (cheers, DD)?

[jimbo5544]

How much are people willing to pay for their new builds versus the same old from Cutback Cruise Line (cheers, DD)?

 

Well, I guess we will see. I can tell you that demand for Vista is beyond expectations. We will see how many new builds stay in the Caribbean for RCI. My guess is not that many. Wonder how the tri state feels about geting their chain yanked for QOTS carrott and pullback? Imagine not getting a chance to try out the ejector pod.:confused:

[love my grandkids]

Well, I guess we will see. I can tell you that demand for Vista is beyond expectations. We will see how many new builds stay in the Caribbean for RCI. My guess is not that many. Wonder how the tri state feels about geting their chain yanked for QOTS carrott and pullback? Imagine not getting a chance to try out the ejector pod.:confused:

 

The proof for Vista is after the ship comes out and its word of mouth.

 

I do have a concern that the comedy club is going to be way too small for the number of passengers as Carnival insists on "intimate" club that is too small for the demand. Major reason we will not go on the Sunshine.

[eroller]

A Walmart reference, knew that would come out, original; and thought provoking. How much is RCI in hock for all their new builds?

 

The truth hurts doesn't it?

 

Apparently RCI debt is not concerning Wall Street at the moment. Have you seen the performance of their stock!!?? Blows Carnival out of the water!! Royal Caribbean knows how to build ships which people are willing to pay more to sail on them. Carnival doesn't. In fact Carnival (the brand and not the company) is almost a commodity, selling on price alone. Like Walmart, they pride themselves on being the low-cost leader and essentially that is the only reason people book Carnival. I mean are you really going to pay top dollar to sail on a Fantasy or Destiny Class ship? I don't think so.

[Gryffindor55]

Well, I guess we will see. I can tell you that demand for Vista is beyond expectations. We will see how many new builds stay in the Caribbean for RCI. My guess is not that many. Wonder how the tri state feels about geting their chain yanked for QOTS carrott and pullback? Imagine not getting a chance to try out the ejector pod.:confused:

 

Irrelevant, the ship was replaced with a comparable, same class vessel. The Chinese and Australians are willing to spend money and earned the right to have the new builds in their homeport over us here in the States. These are international companies and we aren't the only region they need to cater to. China and Australia deserve the new ships and RCI is able to command a much higher price tag and premium pricing for YEARS AFTER a ship is launched.

[eroller]

Well, I guess we will see. I can tell you that demand for Vista is beyond expectations. We will see how many new builds stay in the Caribbean for RCI. My guess is not that many. Wonder how the tri state feels about geting their chain yanked for QOTS carrott and pullback? Imagine not getting a chance to try out the ejector pod.:confused:

 

 

It's called making smart business decisions. Sending ships where they have the most earnings potential. Apparently Carnival Corp. agrees since they are sending the latest Princess new build under construction to China. These days Carnival seems to play "follow the leader".

[jimbo5544]

It's called making smart business decisions. Sending ships where they have the most earnings potential. Apparently Carnival Corp. agrees since they are sending the latest Princess new build under construction to China. These days Carnival seems to play "follow the leader".

 

How many is RCCL sending over there? Do a ratio of new builds and which are being sailed in the Caribbean. All cruise lines will follow the money, no innovation there. Let's the waters settle (pun intended) before passing judgement on the far east.

 

If pulling ship away from a promised market is smart business, then I am glad that Carinval does not play in that game.

 

Smart business "over here" is promising and delivering to strong cruising markets like Galveston. Carnival committed to Galveston, and stuck to it. The only cruise line to do so.

 

Princess and HAL have always been the world market delivery choice for Carnival, no swithcing there.

[jimbo5544]

Irrelevant, the ship was replaced with a comparable, same class vessel. The Chinese and Australians are willing to spend money and earned the right to have the new builds in their homeport over us here in the States. These are international companies and we aren't the only region they need to cater to. China and Australia deserve the new ships and RCI is able to command a much higher price tag and premium pricing for YEARS AFTER a ship is launched.

 

FOTS is the same as QOTS? They are all international companies, some keep their committments made and some don't. I agree they charge a higher price, the economics of that are another issue. I tried it once and won't make that mistake again. On top of all that, they get you for every penny along the way, if that is the cost of innovation, I will pass. :cool:

[eroller]

 

Princess and HAL have always been the world market delivery choice for Carnival, no swithcing there.

 

 

Princess and HAL have not always been world market delivery choices for Carnival. In fact until fairly recently, both lines were very North American market-centric. HAL still is. Yes both lines sail on world wide itineraries and have for a long time, but those itineraries have always catered to North America. As I mentioned that is still the case with HAL, but Princess has only recently branched out to make a name for itself in other markets such as Australia, Japan, and now China.

 

So I would certainly not say "always".

 

Also Carnival the brand is certainly not immune from this strategy. Just take one look at Australia. Ships are being sent there (unfortunately the best in the fleet) and adapted for the Australian market. These cruises are not even marketed in the US. As for Galveston, well more power to Carnival. You couldn't pay me to sail out of there.

[Gryffindor55]

FOTS is the same as QOTS? They are all international companies, some keep their committments made and some don't. I agree they charge a higher price, the economics of that are another issue. I tried it once and won't make that mistake again. On top of all that, they get you for every penny along the way, if that is the cost of innovation, I will pass. :cool:

 

Are you saying Anthem of the Seas is not the same class as Quantum of the Seas? Last I checked, Anthem was replacing Quantum. If that was recently changed, please accept my apologies as I don't follow Royal Caribbean and its changes as often.

 

Eventually Carnival will be nickel and dining just as much as, if not more than NCL and RCI. It's the changing of the tides and all of the revenue venues and dining establishments on the Vista should give you that simple observation, Jimbo. You're right, their economies are different. RCI caters to a higher quality passenger than Cutback Cruise Line and they're willing to pay more for an experience that meets their vacation needs and exceeds expectations for the whole family.

 

I'm willing to pay for innovation.