Prayers for the MS Westerdam

[Coral]

The flight seeing company wasn't the same, but the point I think the OP was showing was the lack of responsibility in using a reputable company for shore/air excursions. It was disturbing to read the article in regards to how Holland America Cruise Lines continued to use a company with deplorable safety records, countless complaints from passengers and crew all in the name of the mighty dollar.

I wasn't a cruiser back then so this was news to me. I always chose ship endorsed excursions believing they were thoroughly investigated to be safe etc. But this has opened my eyes.

I don't know the history of this Promech charter, but a company operating thousands of flights over its 30 year history with I believe is 3 incidents is understandable.

I am hesitant to sail with HAL in light of the above mentioned article.

My thoughts and prayers are with all those lost in this tragedy and their loved ones..

 

FYI - my Princess Misty Fiords excursion in Ketchikan also used ProMech airlines. Several cruise lines use this company.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Coral

[livyordrem]

I did a cruise long ago, probably late '80s, in Alaska and I took both a small plane from Skagway to Haines and a helicopter landing on a glacier. Both trips took off in weather that made me nervous. Both were under visual flight rules (VFR) and the helicopters followed each other. There were times we came close to losing sight of the other and leaving Skagway, we were had to hurry the departure before the hole in the clouds closed up.

 

That being said, the pilots of Alaska fly here all the time and deal with these conditions all the time. I can't imagine that they will value the money more than their lives! At least I hope not. But as a former air traffic controller, I know many accidents happen (and not just in AK) because somebody "must" get somewhere and overestimate their abilities and/or underestimate the weather conditions (think JFK Jr).

 

The pilot has (hopefully!) the last say in pretty much everything about the flight and makes the decision whether to stay or go. But as passengers, we have the final say as to whether we stay or go. Changing your mind at the last minute might cost a whole lot of money but if it saves your life, it is money well lost. All of life is a gamble, but use your judgement. And if a flight excursion is too nerve-wracking for you, skip it! Yes, they are beautiful but there is just as much beauty in AK to be seen from land and sea!

 

Sally

Edited June 26, 2015 by livyordrem

[peety3]

Well, maybe not ProMech...it sounds like they have a spotty safety record:

 

http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/plane-missing-in-alaska-with-nine-on-board/

How is that "spotty"? One incident two years ago with injuries but no deaths. Got any stats on how many flights they operate daily with nine planes?

 

By the way, the 2001 crash was affiliated with Holland America, but was not operated by ProMech. Read the article and the links provided.

[peety3]

I was about to post the same thing. Spotty record and HAL is well aware of it. Sad. :(

 

Info on previous tragic crash

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20050301&slug=huskyfans01m#_ga=1.158725565.649440225.1396810866

No. You're wrong. One incident attributed to ProMech. The other incident is merely attributed to HAL, and is clearly listed as a Mexican tour operator, if you read the links.

[Putterdude]

I posted this on the Princess thread. The previous accident that I remember was with the company Seawind:

 

---------

 

I remember another accident that happened years ago out of Ketchikan. I don't remember if it was ship sponsored or private. Though, it really doesn't matter. Sad regardless.

 

Edited to add:

Here is an article from 2007: http://www.katu.com/news/local/9224126.html

 

I believe the incident that the poster was referring to was the ProMech crash on Prince William Island in 2013 and 9 people were injured. It was certainly the incident I was referring to. I had no knowledge of the 2007 you have referred to. It's all very sad...

 

[bottom-dragger]

 

That being said, the pilots of Alaska fly here all the time and deal with these conditions all the time.

 

 

Not really, there isn't enough business in the off season to support the number of pilots needed in the summer.

 

Many are freelance and do not live in Alaska. I've know helicopter pilots that fly Alaska in the summer and Hawaii in the winter and fixed wing pilots that fly crop dusters down south.

[funcruiser1234]

I have seen this throughout Cruise Critic today. This is all very sad.

 

Since Holland America was in charge of the excursion will the company have to pay any damages to the victim's families?

[livyordrem]

Not really, there isn't enough business in the off season to support the number of pilots needed in the summer.

 

Many are freelance and do not live in Alaska. I've know helicopter pilots that fly Alaska in the summer and Hawaii in the winter and fixed wing pilots that fly crop dusters down south.

 

Good point - not one I thought of.

[CruisingSince2012]

I have seen this throughout Cruise Critic today. This is all very sad.

 

Since Holland America was in charge of the excursion will the company have to pay any damages to the victim's families?

 

If I bought a ticket for someone else who was on the flight I would hope HAL or Promech gives me a 100% refund. I am not sure it works that way though.

 

Promech, not HAL, is the company that will have to pay for damages. HAL holds no liability for a plane crash.

[Sharonlee912]

I totally agree. How heartbreaking. My condolences to the families and the passengers on the ship. It will be a somber trip.

[Coral]

I believe the incident that the poster was referring to was the ProMech crash on Prince William Island in 2013 and 9 people were injured. It was certainly the incident I was referring to. I had no knowledge of the 2007 you have referred to. It's all very sad...

 

 

I had actually posted that message also on the Princess board because Loonbean had indicated that he didn't remember a flight going down in Ketchikan before. I just cut and paste the info on this board.

[StillLooking4Adventure]

If I bought a ticket for someone else who was on the flight I would hope HAL or Promech gives me a 100% refund. I am not sure it works that way though.

 

Promech, not HAL, is the company that will have to pay for damages. HAL holds no liability for a plane crash.

 

First, I'm sure the price of the Excursion ticket is the last thing on anyone's mind.

 

Secondly, HAL and Promech will be sued, you can be sure. HAL will have been exposed to liability if this was one of the excursions they sold on board, especially if there is any previous issues with Promech's safety record.

 

Also, for Jane, the Helicopter flights in Skagway are all booked through the Cruise Ships and are all on TEMSCO. They are an excellent company that has years of experience. In Juneau there are some independent options but I think all three that fly there are also very good. I booked independent with Coastal two weeks ago in Juneau, but it was cancelled due to fog. They don't fly if they have any issues.

Edited June 26, 2015 by mkaplan

[Budget Queen]

In 2007 there were two fatal airplane accidents. i actually saw Seawind that day- flying at the start of that tour- the accident happened on that plane's pick up. The owner was faulted.

 

Alaska, as mentioned does get a LOT of seasonal pilots, some, not with a lot of experience flying Alaska.

 

Pro Mech, is a large company that has been in business for years. I have flown with them, twice, since they have the contracts for Neets Bay bear watches.

 

My husband was a seasoned private pilot for over 25 years, and an A&P mechanic. Most people have no idea what is involved in the maintenance, which is costly and proactive. A pilot, just can't go and "fix" his plane like you would your car. There are very specific guidelines, that for those caring to investigate, should have some information online.

 

Unfortunately, flight incidents do happen, it isn't a perfect world. But, like many reports in the past- air travel does have, overall, low incident occurrences.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Budget Queen

[DinaS]

Our thoughts go out to all of the people who have perished, and their friends and family. This is a tragic event that no one really wants to hear or think about.

 

It is normal to be a little scared when booking these kinds of excursions after an incident like this, but it's still safe when you consider life's other risks (crossing the street, getting into a car, taking a bath, etc).

 

Would you stop cruising because of the Costa Concordia tragedy?

 

I might think twice about a Costa cruise, but it would never occur to me to stop cruising altogether because of that tragedy.

 

We're still planning a trip to Alaska, and a plane ride and/or helicopter ride - depending on which excursions we select.

 

Will I check out the excursion company first? Of course I will - but then again I always do :)

[Putterdude]

It's far to soon to be passing judgement on who or what is responsible for this tragedy. However, I will be surprised if the mechanical condition of the aircraft is found to be an issue, the Otter and the Beaver are both very stout aircraft with a remarkable safety record. What always concerns me with the pilots of these aircraft is their age which I guess translates into their ability to make good decisions. Many are young pilots who are working for little or in some cases nothing in order to accumulate hours to advance their careers in the aviation field. Now, I know that some of the pilots are seasoned veterans but there a large number who are pretty wet behind the ears.

 

[Lulubelle45]

It's far to soon to be passing judgement on who or what is responsible for this tragedy. However, I will be surprised if the mechanical condition of the aircraft is found to be an issue, the Otter and the Beaver are both very stout aircraft with a remarkable safety record. What always concerns me with the pilots of these aircraft is their age which I guess translates into their ability to make good decisions. Many are young pilots who are working for little or in some cases nothing in order to accumulate hours to advance their careers in the aviation field. Now, I know that some of the pilots are seasoned veterans but there a large number who are pretty wet behind the ears.

 

 

This pilot was a seasoned pilot in his 60's. Best to just wait and see what the investigation shows than to point fingers at those "wet behind the ears"

[Putterdude]

This pilot was a seasoned pilot in his 60's. Best to just wait and see what the investigation shows than to point fingers at those "wet behind the ears"

 

Yes, I became aware of that after my post however, did you happen to read the first and last sentence of my post.

[bottom-dragger]

This pilot was a seasoned pilot in his 60's. Best to just wait and see what the investigation shows than to point fingers at those "wet behind the ears"

 

He was only checked out in the Otter on June 6. Best to wait for the investigation before you label him seasoned.

 

I only know of one mechanical incident on a commercial plane in SE in the last 30 years.

 

If I could slide the decimal point on my bank balance one spot to the right, i'd be out flightseeing today. You're at greater risk driving to the airport.

[The-Inside-Cabin]

He was only checked out in the Otter on June 6. Best to wait for the investigation before you label him seasoned.

 

I only know of one mechanical incident on a commercial plane in SE in the last 30 years.

 

If I could slide the decimal point on my bank balance one spot to the right, i'd be out flightseeing today. You're at greater risk driving to the airport.

 

Every pilot, seasoned or not, gets regular checkouts for part 135 or when switching jobs. That, by itself, doesn't mean much. As you said - best to wait.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Pete and Judy

[Lois R]

My heartfelt condolences go out to all the families involved....so

very sad:(

 

 

I went with Michelle at Island Wings last month....someone posted she

is the only pilot? Not as of last month....she was my pilot but there was

another plane that took passengers up as well...Michelle wasn't the

pilot on that plane.

[bottom-dragger]

Every pilot, seasoned or not, gets regular checkouts for part 135 or when switching jobs. That, by itself, doesn't mean much. As you said - best to wait.

 

His FaceBook page has some great shots with him and a Beaver up north. He also talks about the Beaver vs the new to him Otter at his new job in SE.

 

I would have flown with him.

[Giantfan13]

Why is everyone assuming it was Pilot error? You can check out the pilots of planes all you want, if there are mechanical problems or storms or whatever, it is up the Man upstairs if you survive.

 

My sincerest condolences to the families of those who died. What a shame, to go from joy on being on a cruise of pleasure, to this.

 

May they RIP.

 

Len

[PSUtraveler]

His FaceBook page has some great shots with him and a Beaver up north. He also talks about the Beaver vs the new to him Otter at his new job in SE.

 

 

 

I would have flown with him.

 

 

For what it's worth...I've mentioned this elsewhere, but I did fly with him on our Misty Fjords excursion, June 18. We had a wonderful trip. He was very nice, friendly and professional. I was so shocked and saddened to hear the news.

[EMED2010]

It's so sad. Thursday night my husband and I were sitting on the patio and I was showing him the Island Wings website and what our plane looked like. We are going to Anan but when he saw the pictures of Misty Fjords he said he wished we were going there instead because it was more scenic. Friday morning I received a text from him about the crash. What a shock.