Drink Prices Factored With Gratuity

[Newbury newbie]

Why do the drink prices already have the 18% gratuity factored in only if you sail from England or Australia?

[themutis]

It's how the tax system works in those countries....

 

VAT/GST-inclusive countries

 

In some countries, prices shown to buyers must equal the amount paid at time of payment. This means that all taxes must be included in the price.

 

This applies to the following countries:

 

Australia, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Israel, Japan, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Mexico, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, United Kingdom

[cb at sea]

Because many of those countries don't tip, as a rule, so they include the tips in the price!

[dkjretired]

It's how the tax system works in those countries....

 

VAT/GST-inclusive countries

 

In some countries, prices shown to buyers must equal the amount paid at time of payment. This means that all taxes must be included in the price.

 

This applies to the following countries:

 

Australia, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Israel, Japan, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Mexico, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, United Kingdom

 

Has nothing to do with the Vat it has to do with gratuities. Here's the history. First year the Eclipse was home-ported in England Celebrity did what they do on all cruises, add the gratuity to each purchase which I believe then was 15%. This was met with numerous complaints from the Brits about paying the tips so the following year Celebrity rolled the tips into the price. Again, this only occurs on the Eclipse when it is does English cruises and it has nothing to do with the VAT.

Edited June 28, 2015 by dkjretired

[Tiggertastic]

I concur with dkjretired. We sailed eclipse multiple times, when out of Southampton, they roll in the price and advertise it included and when out of Miami we have the price plus - comes out same price.

 

I did the inaugural on eclipse and the moans about the extra was heard every night multiple times. I was thrilled 2 months later when we boarded to do the baltics that they had changed it - we personally don't care which way they do it but it stopped the moans at the bar and possibly many more to guest relations

[Newbury newbie]

So you don't get any choice about paying the gratuity or not then? Not like the daily "recommended" gratuity that's added to your account each day, for the waiter and steward etc. This is technically discretionary and you could adjust it up or down, or even remove it completely and pay it direct.

 

So the bar menu on the Eclipse out of Southampton would show a bottle of Stella say as $7.08 and charged as such but with the Eclipse sailing the Caribbean the same bottle of Stella would appear as $6 but you would get billed and see $7.08 on your account?

 

:confused::confused::confused:

[dkjretired]

So you don't get any choice about paying the gratuity or not then? Not like the daily "recommended" gratuity that's added to your account each day, for the waiter and steward etc. This is technically discretionary and you could adjust it up or down, or even remove it completely and pay it direct.

 

So the bar menu on the Eclipse out of Southampton would show a bottle of Stella say as $7.08 and charged as such but with the Eclipse sailing the Caribbean the same bottle of Stella would appear as $6 but you would get billed and see $7.08 on your account?

 

:confused::confused::confused:

 

You are correct, that's the way it is..If it wasn't that way you would probably have a revolt by the crew and very likely not have the ship sailing out of there. I love the Brits and have been there a few times but you can thank your fellow countrymen for it.

Edited June 28, 2015 by dkjretired

[Newbury newbie]

You are correct, that's the way it is..If it wasn't that way you would probably have a revolt by the crew and very likely not have the ship sailing out of there. I love the Brits and have been there a few times but you can thank your fellow countrymen for it.

 

So it is down to tipping culture then? But it would seem you pay $7.08 for that bottle of Stella, regardless of how it's presented?

 

Or is the argument that if it's shown as $6 you should be in your rights to pay only $6 with any gratuity discretionary?

[dkjretired]

So it is down to tipping culture then? But it would seem you pay $7.08 for that bottle of Stella, regardless of how it's presented?

 

Or is the argument that if it's shown as $6 you should be in your rights to pay only $6 with any gratuity discretionary?

 

You can try, that's your choice....

[sloopsailor]

So it is down to tipping culture then? But it would seem you pay $7.08 for that bottle of Stella, regardless of how it's presented?

 

Or is the argument that if it's shown as $6 you should be in your rights to pay only $6 with any gratuity discretionary?

 

Or to paraphrase your comment: "You should be in your rights to willingly stiff the crew of their tips with any gratuity discretionary".

 

The only reason the cruise line has established this tips-are-rolled-into-the-price policy on certain cruises is because too many people from some countries refuse to graciously accept that the cruise line is an American company following American cultural traditions, which just so happens to including tipping. Just like we are expected to honor your cultural norms when visiting your country, you are also expected to honor the local cultural norms when visiting other countries, or sailing on ships whose cultural norms are determined by the country where it's company headquarters are located.

 

To avoid the crew from being cheated because some people couldn't care less about how the process works on these ships, the cruise line has had to made adjustments to keep it from happening. To circumvent the stubborn insistence of some people that they "don't tip where I come from, so I won't tip here either", they have established a process that people can no longer abuse. The original process was too often abused, so the cruise line made certain that on the appropriate cruises the abuses would stop.

 

Bottom line: you created this situation for yourselves.

Edited June 28, 2015 by sloopsailor

[Newbury newbie]

Or to paraphrase your comment: "You should be in your rights to willingly stiff the crew of their tips with any gratuity discretionary".

 

The only reason the cruise line has established this tips-are-rolled-into-the-price policy on certain cruises is because too many people from some countries refuse to graciously accept that the cruise line is an American company following American cultural traditions, which just so happens to including tipping. Just like we are expected to honor your cultural norms when visiting your country, you are also expected to honor the local cultural norms when visiting other countries, or sailing on ships whose cultural norms are determined by the country where it's company headquarters are located.

 

To avoid the crew from being cheated because some people couldn't care less about how the process works on these ships, the cruise line has had to made adjustments to keep it from happening. To circumvent the stubborn insistence of some people that they "don't tip where I come from, so I won't tip here either", they have established a process that people can no longer abuse. The original process was too often abused, so the cruise line made certain that on the appropriate cruises the abuses would stop.

 

Bottom line: you created this situation for yourselves.

 

So it's only those from the U.S. or sailing out of America that can abuse it now, and willingly stiff the crew of their tips, if that's what they choose to do?

 

;);););););)

[sloopsailor]

So it's only those from the U.S. or sailing out of America that can abuse it now, and willingly stiff the crew of their tips, if that's what they choose to do?

 

;););););)

 

No, the usual tipping policies are in place for all but the cruises out of the UK, and possible Australia, where most of the problems with cancelled tips occur. These include cruises that originate in South America, Europe and Asia, where the standard tipping policies are in place.

 

Most people DO NOT stiff the crew. If too many people did on a regular basis, including cruises out of the US, the cruise line would change the policy and take the hardline like they do for UK cruises. Fortunately, most people accept the policies of the cruise lines they sail on and graciously adapt to them, and somehow still enjoy their cruise even though they willingly participate in the expected tipping procedure. Not everyone feels the need to defy the established on board policies just to satisfy their self centered opinions.

 

:rolleyes:

Edited June 28, 2015 by sloopsailor

[RDC1]

The additional amount is not considered a tip, it is a service charge, which is non-discretionary, in either case. You still have the option to add any additional tip if you so choose.

[Wirral]

I personally do not think it has anything to do with the tipping or not. On my first visit to America I found the practice of advertising the cost of an item then only adding the tax at checkout most perplexing. Being from the UK I expect the price shown to be the price charged. We both have to pay the tax but we have got used to it being included in our advertised price and Americans are used to having it added at checkout. Simply a different way to do it. I realise this is not a tax but it is the same system. Britons on the whole prefer to see the total price to be paid shown. Celebrity have bowed to that cultural norm and shown the total cost. We all pay the same either way.

[Velvetwater]

I think what the OP is trying to say is that if a barman was rude to him/slapped down a drink to spill it on him/did not make it right etc then he is unimpressed he still has to pay the tip.

 

I quite agree, if you are not happy with the service then you should reduce the tip/not give it at all. Its really as simple as that.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Velvetwater

[MicCanberra]

Why do the drink prices already have the 18% gratuity factored in only if you sail from England or Australia?

 

We like the advertised price to include the taxes, fees, etc, so we know exactly how much it costs. :D

[The_Big_M]

Agree with djkretired.

 

It's not to do with laws, but just making it simpler for local custom.

[dkjretired]

I personally do not think it has anything to do with the tipping or not. On my first visit to America I found the practice of advertising the cost of an item then only adding the tax at checkout most perplexing. Being from the UK I expect the price shown to be the price charged. We both have to pay the tax but we have got used to it being included in our advertised price and Americans are used to having it added at checkout. Simply a different way to do it. I realise this is not a tax but it is the same system. Britons on the whole prefer to see the total price to be paid shown. Celebrity have bowed to that cultural norm and shown the total cost. We all pay the same either way.

 

 

I gave you the history of this in an earlier post, those are facts, it has everything to do with tipping because that is what actually happened about five years ago. It has nothing to do with Taxes and everything to do with tipping.

[wallie5446]

I think what the OP is trying to say is that if a barman was rude to him/slapped down a drink to spill it on him/did not make it right etc then he is unimpressed he still has to pay the tip.

 

I quite agree, if you are not happy with the service then you should reduce the tip/not give it at all. Its really as simple as that.

 

An employee like you describe would not have their well paid position for long, and would be shown the door.

 

In the mid 1990'ties Holland America, HAL, had a no tipping policy on all their ship's. There was no desire, nor need, by the servers to do their job. They were going to make the same whether they served 1 drink or 10.

 

It has been changed, but that one experience is why we will not consider sailing with them. It was that poor.

[Velvetwater]

An employee like you describe would not have their well paid position for long, and would be shown the door.

 

In the mid 1990'ties Holland America, HAL, had a no tipping policy on all their ship's. There was no desire, nor need, by the servers to do their job. They were going to make the same whether they served 1 drink or 10.

 

It has been changed, but that one experience is why we will not consider sailing with them. It was that poor.

 

I suppose its the question of 'no tips to be given' and 'essentially forced tips' is the difference. It would be rather nice for the lines to pay a fair wage (as many countries do) to their staff and the issue would be resolved instantly...happy staff and customers.

 

Despite rumours ;) us Europeans do tip when we feel its needed (although it is much less common in pubs and other drinking spots) but we do it through general happiness and not because we feel sorry for the server and their wages.

 

One of the bains of cruising as a Brit is instead of giving grats due to happiness I do it because I would not want the people who have helped make my holiday great to go without. Its the cruise lines job to ensure they have enough and not mine. I know the tipping traditions of the US and some Arabic countries but its not a concept I am entirely happy with ot have been brought up with.

[dkjretired]

I suppose its the question of 'no tips to be given' and 'essentially forced tips' is the difference. It would be rather nice for the lines to pay a fair wage (as many countries do) to their staff and the issue would be resolved instantly...happy staff and customers.

 

Despite rumours ;) us Europeans do tip when we feel its needed (although it is much less common in pubs and other drinking spots) but we do it through general happiness and not because we feel sorry for the server and their wages.

 

One of the bains of cruising as a Brit is instead of giving grats due to happiness I do it because I would not want the people who have helped make my holiday great to go without. Its the cruise lines job to ensure they have enough and not mine. I know the tipping traditions of the US and some Arabic countries but its not a concept I am entirely happy with ot have been brought up with.

 

 

I wish it were that way also but unfortunately Holland America and some others are examples of the problem. They had a no tipping poiicy and guess what happened, people started tipping and the whole conversation started over again. I'm guessing Celebrity did what was best so as not to have a revolt by crew members, its unfortunate but that is the way it occurred.

[hrhdhd]

I wish it were that way also but unfortunately Holland America and some others are examples of the problem. They had a no tipping [policy] and guess what happened, people started tipping and the whole conversation started over again. I'm guessing Celebrity did what was best so as not to have a revolt by crew members, its unfortunate but that is the way it occurred.

 

Actually, the phrase on Holland America was "Tipping Not Required," which is not the same as "No Tipping." People were allowed to tip, or not, as they wished.

[wallie5446]

Actually, the phrase on Holland America was "Tipping Not Required," which is not the same as "No Tipping." People were allowed to tip, or not, as they wished.

 

True, but the service still stunk.

[wallie5446]

I suppose its the question of 'no tips to be given' and 'essentially forced tips' is the difference. It would be rather nice for the lines to pay a fair wage (as many countries do) to their staff and the issue would be resolved instantly...happy staff and customers.

 

Despite rumours ;) us Europeans do tip when we feel its needed (although it is much less common in pubs and other drinking spots) but we do it through general happiness and not because we feel sorry for the server and their wages.

 

One of the bains of cruising as a Brit is instead of giving grats due to happiness I do it because I would not want the people who have helped make my holiday great to go without. Its the cruise lines job to ensure they have enough and not mine. I know the tipping traditions of the US and some Arabic countries but its not a concept I am entirely happy with ot have been brought up with.

 

There are 2-3-4 lines that do this now, and the price to cruise with them is far out of our budget. And all of them only have 2-3-4 ships sailing because it is a struggle to fill the bunks with the pricing it takes.

 

Not dissing on Carnival, but is that not the reason you have sailed with them, lower cost to sail.

[Velvetwater]

There are 2-3-4 lines that do this now, and the price to cruise with them is far out of our budget. And all of them only have 2-3-4 ships sailing because it is a struggle to fill the bunks with the pricing it takes.

 

Not dissing on Carnival, but is that not the reason you have sailed with them, lower cost to sail.

 

 

My point is that almost all US marketed major lines have a similar tip amount and I would guess that most of them (including many US businesses doing the same) can afford to pay their employees well and give a similar price. If the rest of the world manages it I am sure its possible if the top exec fat cats stopped being greedy for a second and stopped laughing at the 'trick' they played on customers to get more money after all these years.

 

I sail for the routes I want for the best price its true and our Carnival cruise is actually much more expensive than our upcoming Equinox. However after Carnival tempted us we actually booked due to the fun/party vibe they have on the ships.As we are in our 20s we like lines that will cater for us in general (So you wont see us on HAL or P&O adult only ships for example). Our Celebrity cruise this year is to see if we like it slightly upscale as thats what we usually like on land...we will see.

 

I will also note here that UK lines Thomson and P&O, Carnival Aus, P&O Aus all have no or very minimal grat amounts. All of those lines cost less than Celebrity and others. I have little knowledge of the top end lines with everything is included so cannot comment on that.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Velvetwater