Island Princess Propulsion problem

[Putterdude]

[quote name='Loonbeam']If I understand correctly (anyone with better engineering knowledge please feel free to correct) if it is JUST an internal bearing, no drydock is required, they just need to shut down the affected side, let it cool, open access and replace and repack. This could probably be done on turnaround day if they have access to port power to keep the ship running (for safety I would expect all propulsion systems to be offline including the generators).

Obviously if its underwater or more damage is found, things get a lot more complicated.

As far as the vibration, its a chicken and egg scenario. Did the worn bearing or whatever cause additional vibration? Or did the structural changes cause the vibration and more strain? Or are they unrelated? We probably won't ever be told for sure.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="3"]Of course we are a long way away to be making arriving at any conclusions but if it is a simple shaft bearing then they can be fixed very easily in just a few hours. Reading this thread it would seem that the affected prop and shaft is not be used so it is likely cooled already and I would be surprised if some of the preparatory work is not be done right now. However, if it is a stern seal bearing that becomes a whole lot more complicated and would likely require a brief drydocking but we are likely talking a day maximum. [/SIZE]

[madscienceteacher]

Just clarify, the stern seal is not a bearing, it's a seal at the point where the shaft exits the ships hull to prevent water entering the ship. It may surprise some but this too can be replaced without the ship having to go into dry dock. An inflatable bag is taken down and placed around the shaft by divers. The bag is inflated and air displaces the water. The seal can then be replaced from inside the ship.

It costs $ thousands to put a ship in dock.

[Starry Eyes]

Hi everybody.
For the person wondering about the itinerary: today July 5 our original itinerary would have been Kusadasi, but Captain scratched that port, instead sailing straight from Istanbul to Athens. It is now about 9 pm local time July 5 and we are due in Athens at 7:30 am July 6.

Speeds have been reduced, though it is hard to guess speed from deck lacking a decent GPS. ScanDisplay on TV seems inaccurate, showing us sailing along Kusadasi route rather than straight to Athens. I do not particularly trust the varying speeds displayed there today.

Basically total silence on board as to situation. Neither DH or I heard a peep from the Captain overhead today. On other lines, I have grown accustomed to hearing from the Captain daily, often at noon or so on sea days; I rather enjoy those short pleasant announcements. Given current circumstances, especially would have appreciated hearing today from Captain; pity we did not.

Repair plans have not been mentioned to us. If I ask, I am only told we will be in Athens on time tomorrow, as if one should have any further interest. I very much hope the poster saying it might be repaired while docked in Venice is correct; that would be great for upcoming cruisers.

Wendy

[flourpot]

[quote name='Starry Eyes']Hi everybody.
For the person wondering about the itinerary: today July 5 our original itinerary would have been Kusadasi, but Captain scratched that port, instead sailing straight from Istanbul to Athens. It is now about 9 pm local time July 5 and we are due in Athens at 7:30 am July 6.

Speeds have been reduced, though it is hard to guess speed from deck lacking a decent GPS. ScanDisplay on TV seems inaccurate, showing us sailing along Kusadasi route rather than straight to Athens. I do not particularly trust the varying speeds displayed there today.

Basically total silence on board as to situation. Neither DH or I heard a peep from the Captain overhead today. On other lines, I have grown accustomed to hearing from the Captain daily, often at noon or so on sea days; I rather enjoy those short pleasant announcements. Given current circumstances, especially would have appreciated hearing today from Captain; pity we did not.

Repair plans have not been mentioned to us. If I ask, I am only told we will be in Athens on time tomorrow, as if one should have any further interest. I very much hope the poster saying it might be repaired while docked in Venice is correct; that would be great for upcoming cruisers.

Wendy[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the info. I'm currently on the Princess land tour leading up to the July 9th cruise. I keep checking here for updates as we move closer toward Venice. Thanks for taking the time to post. :)

[Loonbeam]

Thank you for the much more detailed explanation. That's what I understood to be the case, assuming there is no additional damage. I doubt Kudasasi had the facilities to facilitate a repair like that, but Athens or Venice probably does. (It's possible they have everything they need onboard, but I will go with some level of shore support needed, even if just parts waiting for them.


[quote name='madscienceteacher']Hi Loonbeam. Coming from a marine engineering background with the RN, replacing a shaft bearing is a relatively straightforward piece of work. the shaft would either have been locked to stop it rotating but with the adverse affect of putting greater strain on the other rotating shaft or allowing it to rotate freely under the influence of the water over the propeller as the ship is being pushed through the water by the other shaft.

Once alongside, you go ashore and enjoy yourself in the meantime a small team will lock the shaft putting in place a number of safety systems to prevent the shaft from rotating. The shaft is supported on something called a "Plummer bearing", I would expect Princess to have 3 or 4 per shaft. The bearing, I would expect to be of a "white metal, shell" type lubricated by oil. The bearing is curved and sits around the shaft in two semi-circular halves inside a "split housing".

To remove the bearing, the shaft would initially be supported to prevent sagging when the bearing is eventually removed. The housing would be unbolted and one half lifted away exposing the two halves of the bearing and because of their curvature construction, they can be easily slid out of the housing, helped by the oil it will be coated in. New ones would be slid in, oil flushed to prevent foreign object damage, housings refitted and pressure tested to check for oil leaks.

In the meantime the ship functions as though it was a normal day alongside? You return from shore, have a good nights sleep and the next day you toddle off to sea while the shaft vibration is monitored.

As for what caused the problem, well, 1. The new superstructure causing undesigned forces to act on the shaft, 2. A failed oil filter causing foreign objects to get in between the shaft and bearing, 3. Something may have hit the shaft underwater and "dislodged" the shaft.

Mr Madscienceteacher has just written that and hope it helps!

Mandy[/quote]

[Colo Cruiser]

[quote name='madscienceteacher']Just clarify, the stern seal is not a bearing, it's a seal at the point where the shaft exits the ships hull to prevent water entering the ship. It may surprise some but this too can be replaced without the ship having to go into dry dock. An inflatable bag is taken down and placed around the shaft by divers. The bag is inflated and air displaces the water. The seal can then be replaced from inside the ship.

It costs $ thousands to put a ship in dock.[/QUOTE]


So I must have been imagining them pulling an 80ft plus long propeller shaft with special lifts/chains in order to reach a 6ft in diameter aft shaft bearing (not a seal) from a Princess ship. It took the better part of 10 hours in dry dock to replace it with a new one and accomplish this task. Edited July 5, 2015 by Colo Cruiser

[Loonbeam]

I think the Coral and Island may have a different design from that particular operation, designed to be more accessible.

[quote name='Colo Cruiser']So I must have been imagining them pulling an 80ft plus long propeller shaft with special lifts/chains in order to reach a 6ft in diameter aft shaft bearing (not a seal) from a Princess ship. It took the better part of 10 hours in dry dock to replace it with a new one and accomplish this task.[/quote]

[karlym]

Where does one find out information? I am already in Spain prior to the July 21 cruise out of Barcelona. Will they contact us? Does anyone know?

Karen

[Tedferg]

[quote name='Starry Eyes']Hi everybody.
For the person wondering about the itinerary: today July 5 our original itinerary would have been Kusadasi, but Captain scratched that port, instead sailing straight from Istanbul to Athens. It is now about 9 pm local time July 5 and we are due in Athens at 7:30 am July 6.
Wendy[/QUOTE]

How long will you be in Athens ? As someone said, Athens might have repair facilities that Kusadasi does not have. Also perhaps switch to Athens allows more time for spare parts to get there.

[Colo Cruiser]

[quote name='Loonbeam']I think the Coral and Island may have a different design from that particular operation, designed to be more accessible.[/QUOTE]

Possibly......

I guess we are all putting the cart before the horse.
Nobody knows what the issue is. I just hope Princess does not prolong the inevitable by slowing down and missing ports every cruise as a stop gap measure for months. That seems to be their MO. :( Edited July 5, 2015 by Colo Cruiser

[madscienceteacher]

For everyone's sake let's keep our fingers crossed and hope Princess get this sorted ASAP!

[Tyskie]

[quote name='Colo Cruiser']Possibly......

I guess we are all putting the cart before the horse.
Nobody knows what the issue is. I just hope Princess does not prolong the inevitable by slowing down and missing ports every cruise as a stop gap measure for months. That seems to be their MO. :([/QUOTE]

I can always count on you to burst my "happy bubble" - just kidding ;)

[Corfe Mixture]

[quote name='Colo Cruiser']So I must have been imagining them pulling an 80ft plus long propeller shaft with special lifts/chains in order to reach a 6ft in diameter aft shaft bearing (not a seal) from a Princess ship. It took the better part of 10 hours in dry dock to replace it with a new one and accomplish this task.[/QUOTE]

The answer is you are BOTH correct. As long as it is a shell bearing, it can be replaced without the need for dry docking. The trick is making sure that you don't get too wet whilst doing it and this is achieved by using divers to place inflatable seals at the outboard end of the stern tube.

However, if it is not a shell bearing then, dependent on which way it comes out, you either have to withdraw the shaft, by at least the length of the bearing, and possibly more, or remove the propeller, either of which will mean it has to be dry-docked.

Sadly whilst my yacht has an oil, as opposed to a grease, lubricated seal on the stern tube, the bearing is a water lubricated cutlass bearing in a 'P bracket' which means I need to come out of the water to change my stern bearing.

Sob!! Sob!! Edited July 5, 2015 by Corfe Mixture
punctuation error

[madscienceteacher]

Yes Corfe, absolutely correct, if there as an "A" or "P" shaped bracket then dry docking is the only option - in my haste to inform I forgot this.

To all, these brackets support the shaft outside of the hull.

[JAF1]

[quote name='trinitytrees']My thoughts too, we can only wait and see I am sure the captain will be doing all he can, it's all out of our hands.

What day are you going to Venice? We go Tuesday to have two days there first so may not get any updates, but my view is if I hadn't read CC I would know nothing about problem as I'm sure lots of passengers are unaware to, so I am carrying on as if know nothing...but with hope and fingers crossed, LOL

Oh happy days :)[/quote]

We have an early morning flight on Thursday from Heathrow and then transfer from airport to dock booked with Princess. Due to other commitments we can not get away earlier as I would love to spend longer in Venice.

[MaryZ]

[quote name='flourpot']Thanks for the info. I'm currently on the Princess land tour leading up to the July 9th cruise. I keep checking here for updates as we move closer toward Venice. Thanks for taking the time to post. :)[/QUOTE]

How are you enjoying your tour? We are on the Paris tour on 9/1 and then onto the island princess 9/7.
Hopefully :D

[flourpot]

[quote name='MaryZ']How are you enjoying your tour? We are on the Paris tour on 9/1 and then onto the island princess 9/7.
Hopefully :D[/QUOTE]

So far, so good! Yesterday, we climbed to 11,333 feet to see the summit of Jungfraujoch in Grindelwald, Switzerland. It was pretty darn amazing. Now we're in Lucerne and will be heading to Lake Como in 2 days and then to the ship in Venice.

[Astro Flyer]

[quote name='madscienceteacher']As for what caused the problem, well, 1. The new superstructure causing undesigned forces to act on the shaft, 2. A failed oil filter causing foreign objects to get in between the shaft and bearing, 3. Something may have hit the shaft underwater and "dislodged" the shaft.

Mr Madscienceteacher has just written that and hope it helps!

Mandy[/QUOTE]
Thanks for your helpful insights & some possible causes.

Would you know if such marine systems contain a system to detect metal in the oil lubrication system or a clogged filter indicator? Helicopter turbine, transmission & tail rotor gear systems have a magnetic plug that attracts metallic chips to provide a warning prior to a catastrophic failure. That system works great & provides sufficient warning to safely land before a total failure of a bearing, gear or turbine blade. Edited July 5, 2015 by Astro Flyer

[Colo Cruiser]

[quote name='Tyskie']I can always count on you to burst my "happy bubble" - just kidding ;)[/QUOTE]

It is what it is right? :(
Hey we are invested in this too with our sailing in Oct, I will be on for 31 days. :eek:
We have all seen the way Princess has handled these situations with a number of ships over the years. The latest being the Sea in late 2014. That was a big time dry dock.

[Astro Flyer]

[quote name='flourpot']So far, so good! Yesterday, we climbed to 11,333 feet to see the summit of Jungfraujoch in Grindelwald, Switzerland. It was pretty darn amazing. Now we're in Lucerne and will be heading to Lake Como in 2 days and then to the ship in Venice.[/QUOTE]

Did you take the cogwheel railway to the top of Mt Rigi? We went on a May day several years ago & it was snowing at the summit.

[Tedferg]

[quote name='Colo Cruiser']
Hey we are invested in this too with our sailing in Oct, I will be on for 31 days. :eek:
QUOTE]

I saw you had cancelled a TA because of refit, was that in 2016 ? What brought you back?

[SILFOX]

[quote name='Starry Eyes']Hi everybody.
For the person wondering about the itinerary: today July 5 our original itinerary would have been Kusadasi, but Captain scratched that port, instead sailing straight from Istanbul to Athens. It is now about 9 pm local time July 5 and we are due in Athens at 7:30 am July 6.

Speeds have been reduced, though it is hard to guess speed from deck lacking a decent GPS. ScanDisplay on TV seems inaccurate, showing us sailing along Kusadasi route rather than straight to Athens. I do not particularly trust the varying speeds displayed there today.

Basically total silence on board as to situation. Neither DH or I heard a peep from the Captain overhead today. On other lines, I have grown accustomed to hearing from the Captain daily, often at noon or so on sea days; I rather enjoy those short pleasant announcements. Given current circumstances, especially would have appreciated hearing today from Captain; pity we did not.

Repair plans have not been mentioned to us. If I ask, I am only told we will be in Athens on time tomorrow, as if one should have any further interest. I very much hope the poster saying it might be repaired while docked in Venice is correct; that would be great for upcoming cruisers.

Wendy[/quote

Hi Wendy, thanks sincerely for your on-board updates re the situation as it unfolds.
[B]If poss. kindly continue to enlighten us all.[/B]
As there apparently has been nil info. from Princess to anyone - (guessing it is too early yet, pending full examination & appraisals of the problem) your postings are the only avenue of news - much appreciated. Will continue to monitor this thread......
P.S. We are booked on the July 21 sailing Barc->Venice

Kind regards, take care, try to enjoy!
Geoff & Caz
PERTH, Western Australia

[Colo Cruiser]

[quote name='Tedferg']I saw you had cancelled a TA because of refit, was that in 2016 ? What brought you back?[/QUOTE]


Ours had nothing to do with any dry dock........
We originally had the TA booked this Nov but due to schedule/work for DW and son we canceled and booked the cruise before.
They are heading home after that cruise and I am going to try and stay on for the TA. But they need to come down on the price. :eek: Edited July 5, 2015 by Colo Cruiser

[Tedferg]

Colo Cruiser. If it is the one starting in Rome on Oct 25 2015, that is an amazing itinerary !

[Colo Cruiser]

[quote name='Tedferg']Colo Cruiser. If it is the one starting in Rome on Oct 25 2015, that is an amazing itinerary ![/QUOTE]


I agree!

The prior 12 day from Rome cruise starts the 25th and the TA starts Nov 6 from Venice.