The Jones Act

[sandancer]

Thanks to all of you for your sound advice. As Celebrity made the mistake by allowing us to book this they have agreed to let us cancel and transfer the deposit to another Celebrity cruise without penalty. We are going to do that. The cruises we had booked were for September 16 so we have plenty of time to look for something else. Really don't want to change ships mid-way but there always other options. Thanks again.

[neverbeenhere]

OK I will probably get a nerd alert but the Jones Act and the Passenger Vessel Services Act are different laws. The Jones Act regulates cargo ships. PVSA regulates, as the title says, passenger ships.

 

Data, just entered the building.:)

[PoppyandNana]

OK I will probably get a nerd alert but the Jones Act and the Passenger Vessel Services Act are different laws. The Jones Act regulates cargo ships. PVSA regulates, as the title says, passenger ships.

 

 

Sorry, they are one and the same. Here you go.

 

 

So what is the "Jones Act" and how does it influence us as resellers of cruises?

 

The Jones Act is the everyday name for Section 27 of the Merchant Marine Act of 1920 (46 U.S.C. 883; 19 CFR 4.80 and 4.80b). Its intent is very simple, to promote a healthy U.S-Flag fleet and protect that fleet from unfair foreign competition, the Jones Act requires that cargo moving between U.S. ports be carried in a vessel that was built in the United States and is owned (at least 75 percent) by American citizens or corporations. Since the Jones Act vessels are registered in the United States, our general labor and immigration laws require that crewmembers be American citizens or legal aliens. (In fact most maritime nations have an equivalent to the Jones Act - (50 countries).

 

To reduce the terminology to something the layman can understand - this is termed "cabotage" and applies not only to shipping but to airlines and other forms of international transportation. The statute covering cabotage as it applies to passengers is known as the Passenger Services Act (PSA) and became law in 1886.

 

Does the Jones Act apply to passengers? The Act, no; the principle, yes. What is known as the Passenger Vessel Act (PSA) of 1886 (46 U.S.C. 289) states that “no foreign vessel shall transport passengers between ports or places in the United States, under penalty of $200 for each passenger so transported or landed.”

 

Another question we are frequently asked is, can the Jones act be waived or suspended? the answer is Yes, but only during a national emergency. However, over time, a number of exceptions have been made, for example Canadian vessels may transport passengers between Rochester and Alexandria Bay, New York and between southern Alaska and U.S. ports until an American carrier enters the markets. Similarly, foreign vessels may transport passengers between Puerto Rico and the U.S. mainland as long as a U.S. carrier does not provide such service. Foreign-flagged cruise ships may carry passengers from a U.S. port as long as they return them to the same port (a "cruise to nowhere"). Foreign vessels may also call at intermediate U.S. ports as long as no passenger permanently leaves the vessel at those ports and the vessel makes at least one call at a foreign port.

 

While the PSA prevents foreign cruise ships from carrying passengers directly from Alaska and the West Coast to Hawaii and from competing for Hawaiian inter-island cruise traffic, a considerable number of foreign cruise ships do visit Hawaii in any given year. American passengers on foreign cruise ships to Hawaii must board in another country—typically, Vancouver, Canada or Ensenada, Mexico. These ships cannot pick up a passenger in one U.S. port and drop off the passenger in another U.S. port. However, after arriving from Canada or Mexico, they may tour the islands and drop off passengers in Hawaii. They may then pick up new passengers, tour the islands, and return to Canada or Mexico. As a consequence, these "foreign" cruise ships made approximately over 300 calls in Hawaii ports during 2002.

 

In October 1997, federal legislation was passed that permits a person to operate a foreign-built cruise ship in the U.S. coastwise trade provided that the person had entered a binding contract for the delivery of two U.S.-built cruise ships. The first ship must be delivered no later than January 1, 2005, and the second ship must be delivered no later than January 1, 2008. Moreover, in Hawaii, only the existing cruise ship operator may operate a foreign-built ship among the islands unless a new U.S.-built cruise ship is placed into regular service outside of Hawaii. This legislation makes it possible to temporarily employ a foreign-built vessel among the Hawaiian Islands despite the Passenger Services Act while new U.S.-built cruise ships are constructed.

 

In the mid- and late 1990s, there was a debate about the continued need for the nation's cabotage laws, key among which is the Jones Act. A group calling itself the Jones Act Reform Coalition (JARC), which was claiming service shortfalls in every part of the nation made an unsuccessful effort to repeal the law. As it later turned out, the JARC criticisms of the US Flag fleet galvanized the industry into a coalition that won statements of support for the Jones Act from a majority of the House, the Clinton (and now Bush) Administrations, the Department of Defense, to the extent that the JARC was disbanded in 2000.

 

The situation in other parts of the world are somewhat more confusing. In Europe the European Economic Union has indicated that it intends to make the carriage of passengers and goods between members countries as open as its frontiers (another story). To date this is not the case and each country appears to have its own interpretation of how the cabotage laws are applied. For example, we recently had a charter doing a site inspection on a ship that was traveling between contiguous ports of one of the Atlantic Coast EEC countries - this was no problem. A couple of weeks later a different group wanted to do the same thing on a cruise ship traveling between Mediterranean ports of another EEC country - and this was not possible.

Back

[Kamloops50]

Sorry to disagree with you.

 

The PVSA and Jones Act are totally different laws . The Jones Act basically covers work conditions on US flagged ships and other types of equipment (example Oil Drilling Platforms the Gulf Mexico).

The PVSA is strictly the transportation of passengers and freight between US ports . It was written when Hawaii was a territory or protectorate of the US . It was used to stop lo cost (cheap) foreign flagged ships from under cutting the US flag carriers that existed at that time.

The PVSA now is also applied to the airlines .

[cle-guy]

. Foreign-flagged cruise ships may carry passengers from a U.S. port as long as they return them to the same port (a "cruise to nowhere").

 

This is also no longer the case - unless all workers on the ships have appropriate US Work VISA's. They have determined that CTN don't actually land in any foreign "port" even though they enter international waters.

 

It was just announced a few weeks back that they have to cease effective January 1 2016.

 

Here's the article from Cruise Critic.

Edited July 8, 2015 by cle-guy

[Kamloops50]

This is also no longer the case - unless all workers on the ships have appropriate US Work VISA's. They have determined that CTN don't actually land in any foreign "port" even though they enter international waters.

 

It was just announced a few weeks back that they have to cease effective January 1 2016.

 

Here's the article from Cruise Critic.

 

OP was asking about cruising from Seattle via Alaska and Vancouver to Hawaii . Not closed loop or CTN cruises.

[cle-guy]

OP was asking about cruising from Seattle via Alaska and Vancouver to Hawaii . Not closed loop or CTN cruises.

 

Indeed, however another poster posted in detail about the various acts, and in that reply (which I quoted), indicated that CTN's are still allowed - which they are not - just looking to clarify that for any one reading this thread - as it was a recent change made less than a month ago - and affects people who have such cruses already booked into next year.

[PoppyandNana]

Sorry to disagree with you.

 

The PVSA and Jones Act are totally different laws . The Jones Act basically covers work conditions on US flagged ships and other types of equipment (example Oil Drilling Platforms the Gulf Mexico).

The PVSA is strictly the transportation of passengers and freight between US ports . It was written when Hawaii was a territory or protectorate of the US . It was used to stop lo cost (cheap) foreign flagged ships from under cutting the US flag carriers that existed at that time.

The PVSA now is also applied to the airlines .

 

I stand corrected

[Pat&Paul]

Ensenada, Mexico, is not distant, but it qualified as they bussed people to/from from San Diego.

 

So...on my upcoming Pacific Costal SF Round Trip we depart Ensenada on Sept 8 at 4PM and arrive San Diego (no bus) at 6AM on Sep 9. How does that work? Is Ensenada suddely distant again?

 

Thanks for the clarification.

[BEAV]

So...on my upcoming Pacific Costal SF Round Trip we depart Ensenada on Sept 8 at 4PM and arrive San Diego (no bus) at 6AM on Sep 9. How does that work? Is Ensenada suddely distant again?

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

The PVSA applies to voyages departing from one U.S. port and terminating at a different U.S. port requiring them to call at a distant foreign port.

 

In your case, your cruise is round trip SF, so a call at any foreign port is the only requirement.

[Blue_Flame]

So...on my upcoming Pacific Costal SF Round Trip we depart Ensenada on Sept 8 at 4PM and arrive San Diego (no bus) at 6AM on Sep 9. How does that work? Is Ensenada suddely distant again?

 

Thanks for the clarification.

As you stated, your cruise is SF Round Trip, not from one US port to another. Therefore, I believe you just need to visit a foreign port, not a distant foreign port. (Ensenada is still not a distant foreign port.)

[tampatramp]

So...on my upcoming Pacific Costal SF Round Trip we depart Ensenada on Sept 8 at 4PM and arrive San Diego (no bus) at 6AM on Sep 9. How does that work? Is Ensenada suddely distant again?

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

did you mean "Round Trip" from San Francisco? sure you can do that as long as you visit a foreign port (Ensenada).

 

you can't go from San Francisco to San Diego without visiting a Distant foreign port (e.g. a port in South America).

 

you can go from Ensenada to San Diego. (that's called a ferry ride, not a cruise).

 

You can always go round trip from a US port if you stop in any foreign port, it doesn't have to be "distant".

[Wine-O]

So...on my upcoming Pacific Costal SF Round Trip we depart Ensenada on Sept 8 at 4PM and arrive San Diego (no bus) at 6AM on Sep 9. How does that work? Is Ensenada suddely distant again?

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

They'll bus you down to Ensenada.

[varoo]

Had a big disappointment today when our TA called to say that Celebrity, despite, booking our b2b cruises months ago, have advised them that we cannot board in Seattle, go to Alaska, returning to Vancouver, then go on to Honolulu on the same ship. Evidently Celebrity UK did not flag this up at the time we booked. There is no way round it other than to cancel one of the cruises. Anyone got any ideas how we can deal with this without losing one of our cruises?

There is no need to lose one of your cruises.

But you do need to substitute another ship for one of your cruises.

It can be any other other ship, on any cruise line.

 

If it were my choice, I would substitute a different ship for the Alaska cruise as there are more ships doing Alaska cruises than ships doing cruises from Vancouver to Hawaii.

 

You can take an Alaska cruise out of either Seattle or Vancouver.

If you need a land transfer to get from Seattle to Vancouver, there are a number of different options for doing that.

 

 

If the dates for your new Alaska cruise don't coincide with the departure date for your Hawaii cruise and you get to spend a night or two at a hotel in Vancouver before your Hawaii cruise, so much the better as Vancouver is a wonderful city in which to spend some time.

 

Edited July 8, 2015 by varoo

[knittinggirl]

We did Princess Hawaii, then Celebrity Alaska. We had a day between, which worked out great for us because we visited Walgreens for supplies.

 

As someone else said, see if you can swap out the Alaska.

[publicpersona]

Curious, I had always understood .. apparently incorrectly .. that a cruise could not go directly from one U.S. port to another. But indeed many do (Miami to Key West, for example).

Thanks for clarifying that is has to do with embark/debark for the entire itinerary.

[cl.klink]

[quote name='PoppyandNana']FYI

The Jones Act (also known as the Passenger Services Act) prohibits ships of Non-U.S registry from embarking and debarking guests at two different U.S ports. Such travel would constitute point-to-point transportation between two U.S ports, which is prohibited on foreign flagged ships. Note: Puerto Rico and the U.S Virgin Islands (St. Thomas; St. Croix; St. John) are not in the category of U.S ports under this act.

The exception to this rule is if the itinerary includes a "distant foreign port". South America and the ABC Islands (Aruba-Bonaire-Curacao) do qualify as distant foreign ports. Canada, Mexico, Central America, Bermuda and most Caribbean Islands do not qualify as distant foreign ports.

Any guest who insists on embarking (due to unforeseen circumstances outside the guest’s control, for missing the ship) or debarking (for emergency reasons), which violates the Jones Act, will accept responsibility for any resulting penalties ($300 per person). Important Note: Guests cannot pre-plan or purposely embark or debark a ship in a U.S port that will violate the Jones Act[/QUOTE]

So how do ships manage to sail from Seattle and go to multiple stops in Alaska (all USA), or for that matter go from Vancouver to multiple stops in Alaska?

- Joel

[varoo]

[quote name='cl.klink']So how do ships manage to sail from Seattle and go to multiple stops in Alaska (all USA), or for that matter go from Vancouver to multiple stops in Alaska?[/quote]
[SIZE=3]The PVSA restrictions are not on where the ships may go.
The restrictions are on where they may embark/disembark passengers.

[/SIZE]

[Cruise Junky]

[quote name='cl.klink']So how do ships manage to sail from Seattle and go to multiple stops in Alaska (all USA), or for that matter go from Vancouver to multiple stops in Alaska?

- Joel[/QUOTE]

The middle doesn't count. It's where you embark and where you disembark. There are two rules around the PVSA. Closed loop....ie..returning to the same US port you must hit a foreign port. So all Seattle return Alaska cruises hit Victoria. Then there is open loop cruises or cruises from one US port to another US port. They must hit a Foreign DISTANT port. This is why the Panama Canal cruises hit usually Aruba or Columbia.

[CRUZBUDS]

[quote name='cl.klink']So how do ships manage to sail from Seattle and go to multiple stops in Alaska (all USA), or for that matter go from Vancouver to multiple stops in Alaska?

- Joel[/QUOTE]

They sail round tip trip from Seattle, and will have at least one stop in Canada to have one foreign port. They can not sail from Seattle to Anchorage or any other U.S. city without a stop in South America (or the ABC islands)

Vancouver is a foreign port and U.S. laws do not apply there.

[Kamloops50]

[quote name='cl.klink']So how do ships manage to sail from Seattle and go to multiple stops in Alaska (all USA), or for that matter go from Vancouver to multiple stops in Alaska?

- Joel[/quote]

Round trip cruises from Seattle or San Francisco only have to do a foreign port stop. Victoria is the port that does this. Some cruise lines stop in Prince Rupert . Vancouver BC is a [COLOR=Red][U][B]Non US port[/B][/U][/COLOR] and can carry passengers all the way to Seward or Whittier .
Alaska from Vancouver doesn't contravene the Jones act or the PVSA.

[robcruz]

Can someone tell me if there are any US vessels transporting passengers between two US ocean ports? If not, how does the PVSA save even one US job as far as the passenger shipping industry is concerned?

[Kamloops50]

[quote name='robcruz']Can someone tell me if there are any US vessels transporting passengers between two US ocean ports? If not, how does the PVSA save even one US job as far as the passenger shipping industry is concerned?[/QUOTE]

When the law was draft in the 1870 there was regular passenger to Hawaii. These cruises stopped in the 1960.

[njkruzer]

[quote name='robcruz']Can someone tell me if there are any US vessels transporting passengers between two US ocean ports? If not, how does the PVSA save even one US job as far as the passenger shipping industry is concerned?[/QUOTE]

NCL operates an Hawaii cruise. The ship is a US flagged. They must comply with all US laws, which gave NCL trouble at the beginning.

[RDC1]

[quote name='robcruz']Can someone tell me if there are any US vessels transporting passengers between two US ocean ports? If not, how does the PVSA save even one US job as far as the passenger shipping industry is concerned?[/QUOTE]

There are a number of places where US flagged ships go from US port to US port. A good example of this are various Ferries (Alaskan Ferry system for example), also the river cruise boats in the US, etc.

The law applies to far more than the cruise industry.