Severe Food Poisoning on Getaway

[Jenjer]

That has not been my experience. We sailed Quantum after a Noro outbreak. There where lots of protocols in place and I think they said if the illness falls below a certain % like 5 I think, they loosened the restrictions. Lots of people threw numbers around but it was way more than 2 people. Company's do not like it when a ship has a outbreak and they would not run protocols for 2 people. Reminding you to wash your hands is normal everyday.

 

1. they washed all surfaces down with a sticky super cleaner all the time. They had people cleaning around the clock.

2. No books or magazines in the staterooms room.

3. You had to have drinks handed to you even at the buffet. No Self Service at all. No cups lined up and you grab one no refilling your own cup.

4. No items on tables in restaurants or bars again have to ask for it. Well they brought you over silverware when you sat down.

5. No one allowed into buffet without washing in the sinks first. Not the sanitizing spray but actually washing in the sinks. MDR did spray and no got in without the spray. If you had a issue you where taken aside, no idea what they did.

 

I got it on board and it was horrible for about 12 hours. Then still sick for a few days after.

 

I have had ecoli (diagnosed restaurant closed) and food poisoning a few times, it felt very similarly. IMO more cramping with food poisoning. Had cramps with both but ecoli was like natural child birth cramp level.

[detroitlions]

This actually sounds like an occurrence of hepatitis A which means exposure could have been anywhere from 10 days to 50 days before.

 

Unless an antibody titer is done on him, you may never know if this is the cause. Has there been a "stomach virus" going around his elementary school?

He ate ate 6pm and was sick at 12:30 am. There was no port days and my son is always washing his hands and is very picky on what he eats he has food allergies to all nuts and eggs and even if he ingested any of the items he is allergic to the symptoms are way different. this was clearly food poisoning. Virus not likely he has had many of them and symptoms were different and there was always a fever.

[detroitlions]

I've had food poisoning with several vomiting sessions. I had non specific symptoms prior to the vomiting. Where had you been earlier in the day? If he was 12, he should have had a better appetite than to just want chicken, so he might have ingested something earlier. Were you in a port earlier?

This was a sea day and he only ate chicken and rice. in the morning boxed cereal and bacon and lunch was pizza and fries.

[detroitlions]

Right. It's very important to note that depending on the particular cause, incubation can be up to 3 days. The only reliable way to determine is testing if available (rarely) or finding common food choices among affected individuals in a large scale outbreak. Given it was Day 5 of the trip, its almost certain that the cause was encountered during the cruise, but Moderno isn't the guaranteed source.

 

All it takes is one unwashed lettuce leaf sometimes.

But I think that it was most likely Maderno the other food items he ate the day before and for lunch and breakfast were not likely candidates. Usually poisoning 5 days later is rare and it is stuff like e coli from stuff like feces in the pool water or hep a which is not likely.

[detroitlions]

Yuck! On a cruise with my son once he puked for 3 days. In his case it was sea sickness, so anytime I hear of a kid sick and no one else, my head goes there.

He gets sea sick but he never is violently throwing up for hours and does not have severe diarrhea for 3 days one off the ship when we got back. Remember he was throwing up bile. And water out the other end this is clearly either food poisoning or a strange virus that produces no other symptoms that is very unlikely.

[detroitlions]

Yes, that can certainly happen. I trust you didn't mean that as a refutation of my post, did you?

 

Here's a run down of typical onset times after ingestion for different bugs, courtesy of the US Food & Drug Administration: http://www.fda.gov/food/resourcesforyou/consumers/ucm103263.htm

every parent has read this. the vast majority of food poisoning is within hours or the same day of eating the contaminated food. I come from a medical family they all say food poisoning and I agree.

[mjkacmom]

This actually sounds like an occurrence of hepatitis A which means exposure could have been anywhere from 10 days to 50 days before.

 

Unless an antibody titer is done on him, you may never know if this is the cause. Has there been a "stomach virus" going around his elementary school?

 

DH and I had hepnA in our twenties. We were both out of work for 6 weeks, and were so sick. My kids have been through dozens of stomach bugs mirroring the OP's child. They always get down to nothing in their stomachs, and then it starts at the other end. I would assume hundreds on board would be ill if it was actually food poisoning, and when that many people get ill on a cruise ship, they start noravirus procedures.

[detroitlions]

Given the length of time it USUALLY takes for symptoms to appear, I tend to scratch my head when people claim to know exactly what meal ingredient made them sick. That said, stomach bugs happen, and they suck, and they aren't always from food you ate.

Since he had ceareal on the ship and pizza and fries and was fine all day till dinner and then chicken that was cold with rice in Maderno then sick 5 hrs later what do you think it was just curious.

[detroitlions]

I appreciate the folks with general concern and I also appreciate there kind words. But those of you using this as a sounding board for various reasons like being so loyal to NCL or trying to be a know it all about what the illness really was are ridiculous the comments sound very uninformed. If I would have though I would get these kink of responses I would have stated all the facts along with my post to fend some of it off but I know the know it alls will chime in any how disputing the fact that Madernos food caused the food poisoning. It is the only food he ate that made sense from him getting sick exp the time line. So this was supposed to warn all that he was sick from there food. We had a good cruise up till this point. And they did try to hide it when he went to the infirmary they were only concerned that he was quarantined and kept calling to make sure he was still in the room. The DR even said one lady had symptoms cause we asked but he would not give detail because it is against policy.

[mjkacmom]

He ate ate 6pm and was sick at 12:30 am. There was no port days and my son is always washing his hands and is very picky on what he eats he has food allergies to all nuts and eggs and even if he ingested any of the items he is allergic to the symptoms are way different. this was clearly food poisoning. Virus not likely he has had many of them and symptoms were different and there was always a fever.

 

As a mom of 5 kids all very close in age, there was a time that we couldn't go a month without a stomach bug. Half of the time, there was no fever, vomiting lasted between 12 hours - 10 days (rotavirus, so nasty!), bile was almost always present (meant the stomach was empty), and there was almost always diarrhea, especially after the vomiting stopped. That's a pretty textbook stomach virus.

[rvsullivan]

When one does not want to hear differing opinions it is difficult to change their minds.

Food poisoning can be from many, many different strains of diseases. Incubation periods can be from one hour to five or six days. The child could have been contaminated before boarding the ship. The chance of contaminated food in a public restaurant only affecting one or as the OP says two people is near impossible. The doctor could tell with certainty what was going on. If my doctor told me what he/she believed was the issue, that is what I would go with. Self diagnosing is not usually the correct path, but everyone makes their own decisions.

Kid was certainly sick, whether it came from the ship, ashore or even at home before the trip is not known. Blaming the cruise line for an unknown issue is not fair to anyone.

[newmexicoNita]

This was a sea day and he only ate chicken and rice. in the morning boxed cereal and bacon and lunch was pizza and fries.

 

Bugs or food poisoning can take from a few hours to days to show up. I am curious, where did he get the rice he ate? I have eaten at Modernos probably 6 times and never seen rice served? Maybe I just missed it somehow?

BTW, I don't think anyone is being a cheerleader here as you think. Many of us do come from medical families as well or have just been around enough to know, stomach problems come from so many places, it is impossible to pin point it down to one thing. We all know food poisoning can occur anywhere, but what some are trying to explain is; many stomach ailments mimic food poisoning. All of us have experienced this in our lives. Your poor son could have gotten whatever affected him in several places. What did the ship doctor say about this?

Edited October 28, 2015 by newmexicoNita

[Homosassa]

For anyone commenting on the my Hep A post. Hepatitis A is a common occurrence. Symptoms are worse the older you are. In children, there may not be a fever and the symptoms may only be the nausea, vomiting and diarrhea.

 

I was speaking from an experience I had with my then 10 year old daughter. A "stomach virus" was going around her elementary school and she was sent home when she was complaining of an upset stomach because the school nurse recognized that symptom of the oncoming "stomach virus." She did eventually start vomiting and then had diarrhea; no fever.

 

I was suspicious for a number of reasons and requested from her pediatrician that a antibody titer be done for Hep A. After our discussion (the doctor already was familiar with the fact that I was a microbiologist, worked for the FDA, and had been sent to the CDC for epidemiological training), she wrote the script. The test showed that hep A was the culprit of the so called "stomach virus" outbreak at the school.

[Laszlo]

My wife is a scientist for the USDA......In Food Safety. I hear more about this stuff than any one person should.

 

Food poisoning is a common, yet distressing and sometimes life-threatening problem for millions of people in the U.S. and throughout the world. People infected with food-borne organisms may be symptom-free or may have symptoms ranging from mild intestinal discomfort to severe dehydration and bloody diarrhea. Depending on the type of infection, people can even die as a result of food poisoning.

 

More than 250 different diseases can cause food poisoning. Some of the most common diseases are infections caused by bacteria, such as Campylobacter, Salmonella, Shigella, E. coli O157:H7, Listeria, botulism, and norovirus.

 

 

Unless the food and your son's stool was tested their is no way to know what food it actually came from. Chicken is a real good guess, but really he could have picked up the infection from touching anything or anyone on the ship.

[picodrive]

Here's a run down of typical onset times after ingestion for different bugs, courtesy of the US Food & Drug Administration: http://www.fda.gov/food/resourcesforyou/consumers/ucm103263.htm

 

Thank you for the FDA Foodborne Illness website link. I think that is something handy to have for reference. I plan to save and download it to my phone.

Mary

[Moby0215]

They need to cook the meat more in Moderno. I did not return, as scheduled, cuz everything was undercooked. Several people I spoke to said the same thing.....

 

 

What you deem undercooked is probably what most would seem a perfect cook. Most chefs would agree that anything over medium rare ruins the meat. I actually eat my steak rare. That being said, at modernize since the are bigger pieces of meat, there will be different cooks through the slab, you just needed to tell them you wanted it more well done. It wouldn't have been hard for them to give that to you.

 

 

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[wilmingtech]

From the OPs description and my experience it sounds just like Salmonella poisoning which is very common.

 

They take raw chicken and slide it over a metal rod multiple times through the night and I'm assuming its cooked on a grill and not a rotisserie.

 

The proper procedure for cleaning would be to take the empty rod and clean it after serving all the chicken off of it. I'm guessing when it was empty they just slid more raw chicken on to the rod and then continued to cook.

 

Salmonella can be resistant to heat up to 160 degrees (70c) and some strains higher than that. We have often seen it in the food industry when raw food is cooked on a pan or surface and that surface has not been cleaned and then does not reach temps over 165 for more than a minute.

 

Other places you commonly see it are in dishes where pre-cooked food is reheated like refried beans or chicken on nachos.

 

If you have had salmonella you pretty much know what gave it to you. Unlike other food poisonings it comes on pretty quick and violent.

 

The good thing is once you've had it, its unlikely that your body will respond as violently if at all the next time you get it.

 

If they took blood they can test it...also a stool test will tell (if its taken while infected)

 

I'm 99% sure it was Salmonella poisoning.

 

-Sean

[mjkacmom]

From the OPs description and my experience it sounds just like Salmonella poisoning which is very common.

 

They take raw chicken and slide it over a metal rod multiple times through the night and I'm assuming its cooked on a grill and not a rotisserie.

 

The proper procedure for cleaning would be to take the empty rod and clean it after serving all the chicken off of it. I'm guessing when it was empty they just slid more raw chicken on to the rod and then continued to cook.

 

Salmonella can be resistant to heat up to 160 degrees (70c) and some strains higher than that. We have often seen it in the food industry when raw food is cooked on a pan or surface and that surface has not been cleaned and then does not reach temps over 165 for more than a minute.

 

Other places you commonly see it are in dishes where pre-cooked food is reheated like refried beans or chicken on nachos.

 

If you have had salmonella you pretty much know what gave it to you. Unlike other food poisonings it comes on pretty quick and violent.

 

The good thing is once you've had it, its unlikely that your body will respond as violently if at all the next time you get it.

 

If they took blood they can test it...also a stool test will tell (if its taken while infected)

 

I'm 99% sure it was Salmonella poisoning.

 

-Sean

Why? The symptoms of salmonella and stomach bugs are pretty much identical, even a doctor can't tell the difference without testing a sample. They will perform those tests if a large number of people report symptoms after eating the same items.

[wilmingtech]

Why? The symptoms of salmonella and stomach bugs are pretty much identical, even a doctor can't tell the difference without testing a sample. They will perform those tests if a large number of people report symptoms after eating the same items.

The funny thing about Salmonella is that 10 people can eat the same food but only one or two will have a reaction to it. This is either because the others have had it before and their reaction is lessened and/or it was only that one piece of chicken that wasn't cooked properly or to temp. And even if cooked to temp their are strains that can resist the heat.

 

With ecoli everyone will get it. And typically ecoli shows up in a raw dish or a mixed dish (like a cooked dish topped with something uncooked - maybe cheese) While it may be present in meat it is not heat resistant like salmonella can be.

 

So while a rare burger may carry ecoli, its probably less prevalent in a medium rare burger and almost non existant in a medium cooked burger. Also most uncut meats like steak or chicken (if I remember correctly) if they have ecoli it would be on the surface only, not necessarily in the meat (unless the meat is rotten or bad)

 

With a stomach bug you usually don't feel good for a little while then eventually you get sick. You can see it coming. With Salmonella its "I feel great!" And then all of a sudden you are violently convulsing into the toilet.

 

I do have 20 years of experience working in restaurants and restaurant management and have taken many classes on food poisoning.

 

I've also had salmonella poisoning before (as well as other types of food poisoning) and would not wish it on anyone...it can be awful.

 

-Sean

[gpb11]

True, e coli contamination is typically only at the surface. With ground meat of course the surface gets all mixed into the middle. What you need to watch out for with whole cuts though is if they've been mechanically tenderized with a Jaccard type tenderizer or injected with a marinade. Then there's the possibility of surface e coli being pushed into the middle.

[mjkacmom]

The funny thing about Salmonella is that 10 people can eat the same food but only one or two will have a reaction to it. This is either because the others have had it before and their reaction is lessened and/or it was only that one piece of chicken that wasn't cooked properly or to temp. And even if cooked to temp their are strains that can resist the heat.

 

With ecoli everyone will get it. And typically ecoli shows up in a raw dish or a mixed dish (like a cooked dish topped with something uncooked - maybe cheese) While it may be present in meat it is not heat resistant like salmonella can be.

 

So while a rare burger may carry ecoli, its probably less prevalent in a medium rare burger and almost non existant in a medium cooked burger. Also most uncut meats like steak or chicken (if I remember correctly) if they have ecoli it would be on the surface only, not necessarily in the meat (unless the meat is rotten or bad)

 

With a stomach bug you usually don't feel good for a little while then eventually you get sick. You can see it coming. With Salmonella its "I feel great!" And then all of a sudden you are violently convulsing into the toilet.

 

I do have 20 years of experience working in restaurants and restaurant management and have taken many classes on food poisoning.

 

I've also had salmonella poisoning before (as well as other types of food poisoning) and would not wish it on anyone...it can be awful.

 

-Sean

 

I have to disagree about stomach bugs, at least in children, not coming on suddenly. I'm sure there are plenty of teachers and school janitors who can back me up!

[SissasMomE]

every parent has read this. the vast majority of food poisoning is within hours or the same day of eating the contaminated food. I come from a medical family they all say food poisoning and I agree.

 

Very true. I would take the "experts" on this board with a grain of salt ;) it was food poisoning. Anyone who has had it knows exactly what it is like.

Edited October 28, 2015 by SissasMomE

[mikenhe]

We were on a cruise a few years ago. We were at the hotel beforehand and met some passengers coming back from the previous week. They said that the ship had problems with noro and the buffets were being served by crew – no self service.

We were several hours late boarding because they were doing a deep clean on board.

By dinner time – some 6-7 hours after boarding my youngest was sick. In the dining room!! No sign ahead of time. By 10 am the next morning she was sick again so we went straight to the infirmary. A virus they said. We took her back to the cabin and kept her there.

The buffet was still crew serve only. Actually so many crew were sick the reggae band were serving the food!

My wife fell next – followed by my son and then me. 4 of us sick in an inside cabin. We couldn’t even get through to room service to try and get water and crackers because they had no staff.

My son was the worst – he had to be put on a drip an when we hit the next port we were first off the ship in an ambulance – he had suspected appendicitis. How they thought he had that and the rest of us were sick I don’t know.

After doing tests at the hospital (including a barium meal and a cat scan) the conclusion was gastroenteritis (that can cause inflammation of the appendix as a side affect). We were given meds and cleared to go back on the cruise. Noro can also be viral gastroenteritis.

How did we catch it? It was already on the ship – we mixed with passengers from the week before but it normally takes 12 hours min to show up. The food, drink, unclean areas, food handlers? It could have been any of them. They were determined not to call it Noro though due to the media coverage at that time but with so many crew sick… It only takes one person in the wrong area.

 

I’m not saying that it wasn’t the chicken in Moderno but there are so many ways to get sick – it could have been any of them.

 

 

Having been through it on a cruise ship I can only say I hope everyone is feeling better now.

 

 

(on the bright side - the trip in the ambulance and the work at the hospital landed me with a bill for 10K... luckily I took insurance out!)

[SissasMomE]

I appreciate the folks with general concern and I also appreciate there kind words. But those of you using this as a sounding board for various reasons like being so loyal to NCL or trying to be a know it all about what the illness really was are ridiculous the comments sound very uninformed. If I would have though I would get these kink of responses I would have stated all the facts along with my post to fend some of it off but I know the know it alls will chime in any how disputing the fact that Madernos food caused the food poisoning. It is the only food he ate that made sense from him getting sick exp the time line. So this was supposed to warn all that he was sick from there food. We had a good cruise up till this point. And they did try to hide it when he went to the infirmary they were only concerned that he was quarantined and kept calling to make sure he was still in the room. The DR even said one lady had symptoms cause we asked but he would not give detail because it is against policy.

 

Have a good chuckle over the replies and walk away!

[Crusin6]

He ate ate 6pm and was sick at 12:30 am. There was no port days and my son is always washing his hands and is very picky on what he eats he has food allergies to all nuts and eggs and even if he ingested any of the items he is allergic to the symptoms are way different. this was clearly food poisoning. Virus not likely he has had many of them and symptoms were different and there was always a fever.

 

 

Oh boy. Sorry to hear this

 

My 20 yo dd is also sick right now.

 

We had chicken and rice and mushrooms last night at 6:30 and she was puking by midnight and then again at 5 am she had toast with butter at 9 am and kept it down

 

 

No cramps diarrhea or feverOvernight Just vomiting and no it's not morning sickness. Lol

 

However now she has a mild fever and stomachache this afternoon

 

She feels better when she is in bed of course and doesn't feel extremely weak but is somewhat mushy

 

 

I didn't care for the chicken myself however none of us got sick but her

 

A virus? Food poisoning?

 

She works very hard ...school/job(s) and did babysit yesterday afternoon and said she had a snack with the kids

 

She only made it to 1 class today and then came home which is very unusual for her to miss class

 

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks

 

 

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Edited October 28, 2015 by Crusin6