Shame on hal

[sckal]

Just got off the Eurodam's 8 day Caribbean cruise. While the cruise was fine there are a few things I really found offensive and I feel the need to share them. First off, our cruise was the last before the Eurodam goes into drydock in Freeport. As we got off, we saw a large number of Ukrainian/Russians waiting to get on. We found out there were 1200 contractors boarding the ship to do the work while she's in drydock in Freeport. Importing workers? Are you kidding me? Why not hire American workers to supplement Bahamian workers? Our American $'s make up the majority of their overall reveneue I would suspect.

Secondly, in Half Moon Cay there are local women who independently run the straw market inside their "controlled zone" there on a cash only basis. But passengers are told they only need itheir cruise card onshore. I did a little shopping there and heard at least 5 passengers in a 10 minute period say they didn't realize they couldn't pay with their cruise card, so they lost the sale. These people ride a boat 1 and 1/2 hour each way to come to the island and their only income is from these sales. Passengers should be informed. Also, on Half Moon Cay HAL has chosen to only carry 3 beers from the ship. They refuse to purchase from the local brewers any Kalik and/or Sands. I'm in the Bahamas, not Holland, I want local beers.

[chengkp75]

No cruise line uses US labor in shipyard. It would triple, or more, the cost of the work done due to increased wages and insurance bonds. That cost would then have to be passed on to you the cruiser in increased fares.

 

Besides, most of these contractors have experience with the furnishings and construction of cabins and public spaces, so the job can be done in far shorter time than hiring someone who doesn't know about these things, and believe me, there are almost no companies in the US that have experience with ship furnishings. In many cases, these are "tiger teams" that the cruise line keeps on retainer, just to do shipyard refurbishings.

 

Our shipyards in the US cannot do really quality work on commercial ship repair (like cruise ship drydockings), because most are wedded to the US Navy with their no time limit, cost plus overruns work ethic. Even US flag ships go to Freeport to get a better and cheaper job done, even when you consider that the US flag ship then has to pay US Customs 50% duty on the final shipyard bill for going overseas.

 

Your American dollars pay the foreign crew, as well, but you don't seem too upset about that. If you were serious about creating or keeping American jobs, you should be voting with your wallet by boycotting the foreign flag ships, or pushing Congress to restrict cruise ships that home port in the US to be US flag. While I am a supporter of US flag shipping, and I know its importance to the US economy, and would love to see US flag cruise ships, I also know the realities; that US flag cruise ships would raise fares so high that the industry would collapse.

[Despegue]

Ship is not American but Dutch mate.

If anything, they should hire European workers ( oh, wait, they DO that, since a lot of the "Russian" contractors are in reality Polish specialized contractors.)

 

There are no experienced American Commercial Yard outfitters, the what you call "Russian" contactors are all very experienced and proficient in their job.

 

That being said, I do understand your issue.

 

I agree onthe Half Moon Key comment.

[catl331]

Beer--is there some type of Bahamian laws here? HAL doesn't own the island.

 

I guess it would be nice to know you need cash for those stalls because nothing else on the cruise uses cash. We did use our ship card in the original store at HMC. They must be making some money or they wouldn't be there.

 

I guess it would be interesting to learn what RCI and Princess rules are for their isles.

[sammiedawg]

I've seen TV shows about ship refurbishment on Discovery or the Smithsonian channel. Teams of workers literally attack the ship and work around the clock to quickly execute the refurb plans. Teams perform a monumental amount of work in a week or two. Random hires would bog down the process.

 

American labor costs and the regulatory climate killed millions of jobs.

[HarR]

Just curious,.... how many US citizens are on average part of a HAL ship's crew?

 

10?

[Boytjie]

Also, on Half Moon Cay HAL has chosen to only carry 3 beers from the ship. They refuse to purchase from the local brewers any Kalik and/or Sands. I'm in the Bahamas, not Holland, I want local beers.

 

That's not quite the same as what you said on the HMC thread under Ports of Call: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/report.php?p=48462083

 

How do you know "[t]hey refuse to purchase from the local brewer"? On HMC all food and drinks are supplied from the ship that you are cruising on.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Boytjie

[richwmn]

I would add that if you are really serious about protecting American jobs stay out of most, if not all, of the major chain stores. A very high percentage of the items (well over 2/3) they sell are made in China - to include the computer you use and the cell phone you talk on. You could not afford them unless they are made overseas.

Edited December 8, 2015 by richwmn

[jtl513]

HAL is in the business of selling their own goods on HMC, not providing for the income of the Bahamians. I think it is generous of HAL to allow them to compete for your money ... and if they didn't like the arrangement or make enough money they would not continue to come back.

 

What HAL says is correct - you only "need" your ship card and a photo ID ashore. They don't tell you that if you want to tip your shore excursion guide you should bring cash.

[Krazy Kruizers]

So you want HAL to hire American workers.

Americans want to have their unions -- and their contracts aren't cheap.

I can't see Americans working around the clock because of their unions. It would probably take the Americans 3 or 4 times longer to get the work done. And to pay top dollar to them -- the cost of the work would be horrendous.

Are you willing to pay 3 or 4 times more for your cabin?

[iancal]

If you do a little digging you will find that most large Ameican companies that you deal with have offshored, or moved operations to lower cost countries.

 

HAL is no different.

[crusinpsychRN]

Just off Westerdam. We were told the vendors take only cash.

[WeLoveCruising]

I disagree with your post.

 

You are offended that a ship flying a foreign flag, having work done in a foreign port, isn't hiring Americans? I suppose if any American wanted a job doing that they might figure out how to apply, but I dont think there would be many takers. It's 2015 and an international economy. Today, I had a conference call with my US-based company where we hire offshore IT talent. I also called customer service on my credit card and am pretty sure that person was not in the US.

 

The beer on HMC comes from the ship. Do you thnk it's reasonable to expect that the ships carry local beer from every port? I dont think anyone would confuse HMC with an authentic Bahamian experience.

 

I dont know what to say about your comment on the straw market workers. It's their choice to exhibit and sell there, I guess you could assume it works for them. I dont believe HAL means any slight to them by not encouraging passenger to bring money to the island.

[Copper10-8]

Just curious,.... how many US citizens are on average part of a HAL ship's crew?

 

10?

 

It averages between 25 and 35

[Boytjie]

It averages between 25 and 35

 

Thanks, John, I guess we don't see too many of them in interactions with passengers. Are they mostly back office?

[Copper10-8]

Uno mas for dry-dock and thanks to chengkp75 and Kaptein Despegue for putting it all in perspective in their posts! When a HAL ship goes into dry-dock and besides, Grand Bahama shipyard in Freeport, where most go because it's owned by Carnival Corp, HAL has also used yards in Palermo, Sicily; Hamburg, Germany; Singapore; Piraeus, Greece (emergency repair); Sydney, NSW, Australia; Esquimalt (Victoria), BC, Canada; Brisbane, Australia; and, yes: San Francisco, CA; Seattle, WA; and Charleston, SC. Once in the yard, local yard employees do the work, that's a no brainer

 

Based on what kind of projects are scheduled inside and outside the ship when she's in dry-dock, companies that specialize in those projects are hired to do that work. Those companies bring their own employees and they can be anyone from a myriad of countries around the world, once again employed by those companies . I've seen Poles, Russians, Ukrainians, Belarussians, Romanians, Croatians, English, Scotchmen, Welsh, Irish, Italians, Greeks, Dutchies, Belgians, Germans, Swedes, Norwegians, Portuguese, Aussies, Kiwis, South Africans, Canadians, and yes, Americans, all depending on their specialty and expertise.

 

Dry-dock is a very interesting place with some days working without any a/c and others (sometimes simultaneously) without hot water. The contractors are housed on the ship, with some exceptions (the yard workers are not), and there are four meals a day produced by the very hard working ship's kitchen brigade. Everyday starts with at least three meetings in the morning where ship's managers and staff get with project managers and company reps to discuss the progress of the projects, among other items

Edited December 8, 2015 by Copper10-8

[rafinmd]

I know cruise lines use American drydocks sometimes, I can think of the Crystal Symphony (Norfolk) in 2006 and 2010 (Boston) as well as the Veendam (2013 or 2014) in Philadelphia, but its rare. I would think if the OP was upset about the drydock workers he should have been looking for Bahamas residents.

 

I won't be in Half Moon Cay until 2017 (tender conditions permitting) but have been at Labadee and Coco Cay. I don't think you can win. My recollection is I was told "you need money only for the straw markets", but people have also complained about being badgered for tips. I expect HAL also tells people "you don't need cash except for the straw markets" but either the announcer or the OP missed the "except". A pretty natural mistake.

 

Roy

[InTheWASide]

Thanks, John, I guess we don't see too many of them in interactions with passengers. Are they mostly back office?

 

My guess would be mostly entertainment staff

[Copper10-8]

Thanks, John, I guess we don't see too many of them in interactions with passengers. Are they mostly back office?

 

You'll find the majority of the Yanks in the Entertainment Dept, some work in Admin, some in the Spa; some are photographers, some work in the shops, others are PSA's; there is currently one U.S. hotel director and, oh yeah, two yank SO's

[Copper10-8]

I know cruise lines use American drydocks sometimes, I can think of the Crystal Symphony (Norfolk) in 2006 and 2010 (Boston) as well as the Veendam (2013 or 2014) in Philadelphia, but its rare. .............................

 

Roy

Forgot about VEDM's emergency dry-dock in Philly, thanks Roy!

[POA1]

My guess would be mostly entertainment staff

And Cruise Director's staff. (Unless you count them as entertainment.)

[POA1]

The good news is that when you leave the ship at the end of the cruise, you get ICE at the port and - if you have to fly - TSA at the airport. That's everyone's favorite part of travel. ;)

[Copper10-8]

And Cruise Director's staff. (Unless you count them as entertainment.)

 

They fall under the umbrella of the ship's Entertainment Dept. as do the stage mngr and stage crew, the sound and lighting dudes (also frequently U.S. citizens), riggers, etc.

[POA1]

They fall under the umbrella of the ship's Entertainment Dept. as do the stage mngr and stage crew, the sound and lighting dudes (also frequently U.S. citizens), riggers, etc.

Thanks. I didn’t know that.

[chengkp75]

I know cruise lines use American drydocks sometimes, I can think of the Crystal Symphony (Norfolk) in 2006 and 2010 (Boston) as well as the Veendam (2013 or 2014) in Philadelphia, but its rare. I would think if the OP was upset about the drydock workers he should have been looking for Bahamas residents.

 

Roy

 

And even when the ships use a US shipyard, the shipyard (just as Freeport does) only provides the labor and expertise for the marine portion of the shipyard repairs, not the hotel refurbishments. It gets a little more complex with visas in the US, but the lines will still bring in their tiger teams from Europe and Asia to do the refurbishments. Heck, we did just that for the Norwegian Sky in San Francisco when she came into the shipyard as a Bahamian flag ship and left as a US flag ship (Pride of Aloha).