Princess out of Bayport TX-weather only?

[ddled]

Have this thought on the Carribbean Princess board also-would appreciate thoughts on my wondering. When Princess came into Bayport they got a multi-million dollar subsidy to do so that runs out this year. Weather and channel records being what they are I assume that they could predict about how many problems they would have with the port and channel. The thing missing now is the subsidy, and by the looks of the sales on CB the ship is not filling.. I imagine that economics drives the decison more than weather. Nothing wrong with that, except it leaves 2 fewer ships to use in Texas(NCL is also leaving) :confused:

[Casey12]

Sad for those who drive. I will not sail out of Galveston or Houston again. Too long to get to the pier from the airport and too many problems once on the ship.

[dforeigner]

Have this thought on the Carribbean Princess board also-would appreciate thoughts on my wondering. When Princess came into Bayport they got a multi-million dollar subsidy to do so that runs out this year. Weather and channel records being what they are I assume that they could predict about how many problems they would have with the port and channel. The thing missing now is the subsidy, and by the looks of the sales on CB the ship is not filling.. I imagine that economics drives the decison more than weather. Nothing wrong with that, except it leaves 2 fewer ships to use in Texas(NCL is also leaving) :confused:

 

Princess was not the only ship sailing out of Bayport that received great incentives.

 

There is a high demand for cruising out of Texas. If not, why are Carnival and RCL sailing, at times, multiple ships out of Galveston.

 

Currently, Galveston does not have the infrastructure to handle too many ships. Having said that, the economical foot print that the cruise ships leave behind in pretty big. Princess sailed out of Texas before Houston. Princess will probably return to Texas once Galveston finishes their port renovations. Perhaps not right away but they will.

 

Although artificially inflated, the current value of the US dollar is pretty good. Not as good as the Asian market but good enough to keep ships here in the US.

 

Additionally, many prefer not to fly. Like me, I would have to pay an additional 1,200-1,600 dollars just in air fare to cruise out of Florida.

 

The weather issue has always been an issue in Texas. Primarily when it comes to fog. This is nothing new except for those who are new to cruising out of Texas ports.

[DebJ14]

Princess was not the only ship sailing out of Bayport that received great incentives.

 

There is a high demand for cruising out of Texas. If not, why are Carnival and RCL sailing, at times, multiple ships out of Galveston.

 

Currently, Galveston does not have the infrastructure to handle too many ships. Having said that, the economical foot print that the cruise ships leave behind in pretty big. Princess sailed out of Texas before Houston. Princess will probably return to Texas once Galveston finishes their port renovations. Perhaps not right away but they will.

 

Although artificially inflated, the current value of the US dollar is pretty good. Not as good as the Asian market but good enough to keep ships here in the US.

 

Additionally, many prefer not to fly. Like me, I would have to pay an additional 1,200-1,600 dollars just in air fare to cruise out of Florida.

 

The weather issue has always been an issue in Texas. Primarily when it comes to fog. This is nothing new except for those who are new to cruising out of Texas ports.

 

 

Well said!

 

There is no way the Port Commissioners could have offered Princess or NCL anything to stay after they got raked over the coals for 1. building the port without first getting a tenant and letting it sit vacant for years and 2. for paying Princess and NCL to use the port, which appeared to be an act of desperation.

 

We cruised out of the old terminal at Barber's Cut with NCL when they first had Texaribbean cruises starting back in 1997. We sailed them 3 or 4 times before they pulled out the first time. We also did the Big Red Boat (and sunk a tug) in Jun 2000 and sailed Royal Olympic from the old terminal in June 2001. We had several winter cruises on NCL, but no fog to deal with.

 

Fog is just a fact of life here on the Texas coast due to the frontal weather we get. We had fog delays at both ends on our Dec. 2013 Princess cruise, but we also had some serious fog delays in Galveston in Nov. 2009, January 2012 and January 2013. The ships did not depart until the next day on those cruises. Thankfully, we only live an hour from either pier so we can roll with the punches. We never leave home until we see the ship at the dock on the webcams. Princess, RCCL and Carnival were all great about keeping us informed and telling us when to proceed to the pier.

 

I too hope that Princess will return after the renovations in Galveston. It would be nice if Celebrity would come back too! We are getting in one last cruise on the CB in 3 weeks. After that, it will be back to RCCL and we hope we like the renovated Liberty as much as we enjoyed the Voyager and Mariner. Sorry, but we were not thrilled with the Navigator.

 

The weather is kind of a double edged sword. If we get a nice clear, crisp day to board in the winter in Houston or Galveston it usually means the cold front has blown through and we end up catching up to it in Mexico. We had some days in the mid 50's in Cozumel in January. If it is nice and warm and foggy in Houston then we usually have nice warm weather in all the ports.

Edited January 2, 2016 by DebJ14

[moki'smommy]

Have this thought on the Carribbean Princess board also-would appreciate thoughts on my wondering. When Princess came into Bayport they got a multi-million dollar subsidy to do so that runs out this year. Weather and channel records being what they are I assume that they could predict about how many problems they would have with the port and channel. The thing missing now is the subsidy, and by the looks of the sales on CB the ship is not filling.. I imagine that economics drives the decison more than weather. Nothing wrong with that, except it leaves 2 fewer ships to use in Texas(NCL is also leaving) :confused:

 

They do end up filling the ship on most sailings...the question is at what price? Many of the cruises have been discounted in order to fill cabins.

 

As to the cost of the fog...in the most simple terms, employees were kept at the terminal far beyond their normal day AND returned the next day. Princess purchased a lot of hotel rooms and paid for bus transportation for much of the day. They lost a day of cruise fare, beverage packages, etc. While I have no information as to what they actually paid the hotel for our room, I think most of the profit margin for our 11/29 cruise was used in the extra expenses generated. But then there was the subsidy, so Princess came out OK. I wonder how much of the subsidy is made up for with the Texas liquor tax.

 

They can't increase the cruise prices--anyone who reads the boards knows that the port has issues. And they won't be able to rely on the subsidy after this year. Looks like getting out is that only financially reasonable option.

[Colo Cruiser]

Have this thought on the Carribbean Princess board also-would appreciate thoughts on my wondering. When Princess came into Bayport they got a multi-million dollar subsidy to do so that runs out this year. Weather and channel records being what they are I assume that they could predict about how many problems they would have with the port and channel. The thing missing now is the subsidy, and by the looks of the sales on CB the ship is not filling.. I imagine that economics drives the decison more than weather. Nothing wrong with that, except it leaves 2 fewer ships to use in Texas(NCL is also leaving) :confused:

 

 

Princess keeps finding this out the hard way every time they return to Texas after pulling out.

[Times Prince]

We've had clear sailing on Princess both coming from Galveston on Grand Princess and Houston Bayport on Caribbean Princess and Emerald Princess. And we had a fog delay on returning to port. We just missed the channel problem with the sunken barge.

 

The convenience for those of us in the area (central Texas is 3 - 3.5 hrs away) is fantastic, and we learned quickly that many of our post cruise illnesses were airplane related coming from Florida - and absent when we drove to port.

 

So we are sorry that Princess is moving away again, but can understand the economics of it.

 

As stated below, it will now cost us more to cruise, unless we try other cruise lines. That probably means cruising a little less.

[satxdiver]

We were on the Grand in 2005 and 2006 before it left Galveston. When the Crown returned to Galveston in 2012, we were on it. In 2013 when the Caribbean returned in 2013 to Bayport, we sailed again and have every year since with our now last time in two months. Princess left the first time due to economic reasons and that being they could get more revenue by going somewhere else. So once again Princess will be leaving us for the same reason.

 

It has been a procession of cruise lines on the Texas coast over the years. Disney came and went, NCL did the same, RCCL tried all year but then went to winter only. Now RCCL is back all year and we will see how long it lasts this time. The one constant cruise line though has been CCL who has not one but two ships sailing out of Galveston. When the Magic was brand new, CCL put it at Galveston for a reason and that was money. The Magic is now being replaced by the newer Breeze. What this says is CCL has the port tied up and all other cruise lines get the overflow.

[moki'smommy]

But there is a difference between cruising out of Galveston vs. cruising out of Houston Bayport.

 

Difference 1) 3 hours of sailing the channel which can't happen in fog. They need a good break in the weather to get in and out of the channel while a much shorter break will get them in and out of Galveston.

 

Difference 2) 3 hours of hearing guests complain about the Texas liquor law situation. My understanding (and this may not be completely accurate) is that Texas only allows those items which were purchased in Texas to be sold while in Texas waters and they collect state tax on those purchases. Princess has therefore chosen to stock a limited selection that can be sold while in Texas waters. Passengers complain about the limited selection and the tax charges. On a cruise out of Galveston, the ship quickly reaches international waters so this is a far lesser issue.

 

On the positive, it is far easier to get from the Houston airports to the Bayport terminal than to Galveston terminal.

 

The DCL pull out from Galveston was simple finances--they didn't fill the ships. I've heard that they didn't advertise, things were poorly planned around school schedules, etc. but the bottom line was that they had to offer huge discounts to get people onto the ship. Thus, they arranged to be released from their 2 year contract. In exchange, they will do sporadic cruises out of Galveston (2015 and 2016).

[Colo Cruiser]

But there is a difference between cruising out of Galveston vs. cruising out of Houston Bayport.

 

Difference 1) 3 hours of sailing the channel which can't happen in fog. They need a good break in the weather to get in and out of the channel while a much shorter break will get them in and out of Galveston.

 

Difference 2) 3 hours of hearing guests complain about the Texas liquor law situation. My understanding (and this may not be completely accurate) is that Texas only allows those items which were purchased in Texas to be sold while in Texas waters and they collect state tax on those purchases. Princess has therefore chosen to stock a limited selection that can be sold while in Texas waters. Passengers complain about the limited selection and the tax charges. On a cruise out of Galveston' date=' the ship quickly reaches international waters so this is a far lesser issue.

 

On the positive, it is far easier to get from the Houston airports to the Bayport terminal than to Galveston terminal.[/quote']

 

 

There have been long discussions and delayed sailing threads here on CC involving both ports over the last 4 years.

Have sailed from both. This is one port I use transfers.

Not that much difference between Bush/Hobby. imo

[satxdiver]

But there is a difference between cruising out of Galveston vs. cruising out of Houston Bayport.

 

Difference 1) 3 hours of sailing the channel which can't happen in fog. They need a good break in the weather to get in and out of the channel while a much shorter break will get them in and out of Galveston.

 

Difference 2) 3 hours of hearing guests complain about the Texas liquor law situation. My understanding (and this may not be completely accurate) is that Texas only allows those items which were purchased in Texas to be sold while in Texas waters and they collect state tax on those purchases. Princess has therefore chosen to stock a limited selection that can be sold while in Texas waters. Passengers complain about the limited selection and the tax charges. On a cruise out of Galveston' date=' the ship quickly reaches international waters so this is a far lesser issue.

 

On the positive, it is far easier to get from the Houston airports to the Bayport terminal than to Galveston terminal.

 

The DCL pull out from Galveston was simple finances--they didn't fill the ships. I've heard that they didn't advertise, things were poorly planned around school schedules, etc. but the bottom line was that they had to offer huge discounts to get people onto the ship. Thus, they arranged to be released from their 2 year contract. In exchange, they will do sporadic cruises out of Galveston (2015 and 2016).[/quote']

 

We were on the Emerald sailing out of Bayport the first of March this year. We sailed out and into the Gulf through thick fog amid a fog horn warning regularly. Later a bridge officer told us that they have no problem with sailing in the fog because of the extensive navigation equipment aboard the ship. It has been done.

 

Texas requires that all alcohol sold at bars in Texas have paid the Texas alcohol tax and be bought from a distributor in Texas. The state also requires state sales tax be collected on anything bought in Texas and that includes cruise ships in Texas waters. So limited alcohol is available on the ship until it sails into international water. FL requires cruise ships to collect sales tax on anything purchased on the ship in FL waters.

 

It is 30 miles further to Galveston than Bayport via I-45. Because Bayport is actually east of I-45, pax have to drive over secondary streets many times through built up areas. There are several ways to get to Bayport once you leave I-45 or I-410. The driving time is not that much different.

 

Disney left because they had trouble selling the ship and did not have the nice deal Princess/NCL had at Bayport. Princess and NCL have had to discount their staterooms to fill them but the sweet deal they got from Houston made up for it. Now the sweet deal is gone and so are the two ships.

 

Galveston can handle two ships at the same time. The channel into the piers is very narrow such that the ships have a really hard time turning around. There is not much room to expand the port. Today the port handles two CCL ships and one RCCL ship all year. There is not much room for adding additional ships. If you have ever boarded a ship there when two ships were in port, it is a chinese fire drill with massive congestion at the best.

 

Because of Texas location on the North American continent, fog is a fact of life all along the Texas coast. The market here is large for pax who want to drive to the port instead of fly but it has its limits like all things.

Edited January 3, 2016 by satxdiver

[moki'smommy]

We were on the Emerald sailing out of Bayport the first of March this year. We sailed out and into the Gulf through thick fog amid a fog horn warning regularly. Later a bridge officer told us that they have no problem with sailing in the fog because of the extensive navigation equipment aboard the ship. It has been done.

 

I sat in the terminal at Bayport for about 8 hours before being transported to a hotel (11/29/15) and returned to the terminal the next day to board the ship. The explanation we were given was that the Caribbean Princess could not enter the channel due to fog. When it appeared to be significantly clearer at the terminal, the word was that it was still too dense at the channel entrance. I suppose there could be another explanation, but I don't think Princess would have chosen to inconvenience 6000 passengers (those on the ship and those waiting to board) if there was another option.

[Cindy]

But there is a difference between cruising out of Galveston vs. cruising out of Houston Bayport.

 

Difference 2) 3 hours of hearing guests complain about the Texas liquor law situation. My understanding (and this may not be completely accurate) is that Texas only allows those items which were purchased in Texas to be sold while in Texas waters and they collect state tax on those purchases. Princess has therefore chosen to stock a limited selection that can be sold while in Texas waters. Passengers complain about the limited selection and the tax charges. On a cruise out of Galveston' date=' the ship quickly reaches international waters so this is a far lesser issue.

 

[/quote']

 

The distance from Bayport out to the Gulf really does have an impact, especially when weather problems rear their ugly head. We knew going in that the antiquated, greedy liquor laws (yes, I'm a Texan who thinks the state really needs to rethink this) could have an impact, and they did.

 

We had the all-inclusive beverage package, but we still chose to bring a bottle of wine on with us for dinner in the Crown Grill the first night. Ships leaving from Houston instead of Galveston can't open up the liquor cabinet until about 8:00 (if they're on time), and we knew we'd want some good wine with dinner.

 

Coming home, we arrived back in Houston the night before we were due in an attempt to avoid weather problems. All the shops and the casino had to close at 4:00 on Saturday, and the bars reverted to the "Texas" menu which is extremely limited. That means no martinis, only two wines - a red and a white, a couple beers, and a handful of very basic mixed drinks. We actually went to Vines and purchased a bottle of one of the wines we'd been drinking by the glass on the beverage package, so coming back early meant we had an entire evening of not being able to use something we'd purchased, and to add insult to injury, paying for something that was included in our package.

 

I can't even imagine how much revenue and goodwill Princess and NCL are losing because of having to shut down things people count on as part of their cruise. Just for that aspect alone Galveston is less problematic than Houston. Recently, they seem to be doing a better job of getting ships in and out of Galveston in all but the densest fog, whereas the Houston ships that have to transit the ship channel are stuck.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Cindy

[Yehootu]

So if I buy beer packages from room service, what type of beer can I get on the first day?

On Feb 28th cruise so Mom can get in her 74/75th countries.

Tim

[LesaL]

I sat in the terminal at Bayport for about 8 hours before being transported to a hotel (11/29/15) and returned to the terminal the next day to board the ship. The explanation we were given was that the Caribbean Princess could not enter the channel due to fog. When it appeared to be significantly clearer at the terminal' date=' the word was that it was still too dense at the channel entrance. I suppose there could be another explanation, but I don't think Princess would have chosen to inconvenience 6000 passengers (those on the ship and those waiting to board) if there was another option.[/quote']

 

 

It is my understanding that if the fog is bad the ship channel and port are closed to traffic by the port authorities, and not because the ship is unable to navigate the distance. So it is weather related, but the decision is not made by the captain.

[moki'smommy]

It is my understanding that if the fog is bad the ship channel and port are closed to traffic by the port authorities, and not because the ship is unable to navigate the distance. So it is weather related, but the decision is not made by the captain.

 

That makes sense. We were told that the captain had anchored the ship in a position so that if there was a clearing of the fog, he would be able to quickly enter the channel.

[WestLakeGirl]

Another downside to Bayport is that neither shops nor casino can open until out of the channel

[Paula_MacFan]

I've read many comments stating the ships have the technology to navigate in fog conditions, but it's the local port officials who make the decision whether the ship can sail or not. So it's not really Princess' fault if they have to sit and wait out the fog.

 

With the exception of one Alaska cruise, all our cruises have been from either Galveston or Houston. We were on the CB in November and have her booked again for February. So far we've been lucky and have never been impacted by fog or other weather conditions. I have my fingers crossed for February:)

[satxdiver]

I've read many comments stating the ships have the technology to navigate in fog conditions, but it's the local port officials who make the decision whether the ship can sail or not. So it's not really Princess' fault if they have to sit and wait out the fog.

 

...

 

You are correct that the harbor master controls the harbor and channel. What the bridge officer told us was that the captain was able to get permission to leave in the fog. We were the only ship allowed to leave or enter at that time. The channel was closed another day. The bridge officer did allude to the fact that the ship kept calling the harbor master and that the ship may have been allowed to leave to stop pestering the harbor master.

 

Since our very first cruise which was out of Galveston, we have sailed out of Galveston or Bayport every year. This year we sailed out of both ports once on Princess and the second time on CCL. In 2017 we will be sailing out of Galveston since Princess is leaving. It is an easy 4 hour drive to the port almost all over access controlled highways.

[Paula_MacFan]

From viewing the port cam it looks like they left on time tonight, and had good weather and nice sunset.