A different question about changing after dinner

[tbelian]

The question becomes how do you make everyone happy?

 

By letting people do whatever they want. I guess this is the compromise you are referring to?

[Ocean Boy]

tbelian....

 

How about YOU coming up with a solution then???

[WeBeCruisin']

Frankly, I find it silly that a dress code has to be "enforced" at all. What has happened to this society that everyone feels they have the right to ignore what is stated policy and do as they please? Have we really become that lazy and self-centered?

 

From many of the postings on this subject, it would - sadly - appear that the answer is "yes".

 

.

 

Since caviar is one of my favorite delicacies, I have to agree with everything that Caviargal says.:)

 

So many of the "me, me, me" people go to extremes and exaggerate. They characterize dressing formally as wearing a tuxedo or ballgown which is obviously too small and therefore "constricting". They don't seem to realize the flexibility that "formal" wear can embrace.

 

Men can get by with a blazer or sports coat without a tie.

Women can get by with slacks and a slightly dressy top.

 

These approaches are not what most people will be wearing, but it at least shows that the person has made an effort to follow the guidelines, even if not as precisely as Celebrity asks them to.

 

It's the people who deliberately disregard the dress code or any semblance of it and flaunt the fact that it's their vacation and they paid for it and by golly no one is going to tell THEM what to do who are the problem.

 

It's this attitude that most people find rude, selfish, obnoxious and a detriment to their own enjoyment of the cruise.

 

Someone said that the fact that no one accosts them and rebukes them for flouting the dress code is "proof" that no one cares. Just because no one is rude enough to show you their disapproval does not mean that they aren't thinking you're being a "me, me, me" jerk.

 

It would be great if there were some way to prove that the majority of the "me, me, me" dress-code violators are also the chair hogs, seat hogs, and line-breakers.:D

 

Allen

[espmass]

Perhaps I should have clarified my feeling on my first post. I believe in adhering to the formal attire and not changing after dinner. I don't think Celebrity is "classier" as someone suggested. I do think they have tried to maintain the air of elegance that used to be the norm on cruising in days long gone. Maybe I'm not saying it right so hopefully you all know what I mean. Not a popular example but think of the elegance of ships like the Titanic or even the Queen Mary.

[tbelian]

tbelian....

 

How about YOU coming up with a solution then???

 

Cerrtainly.

 

Follow the dress code.

 

Does that make everyone happy? No. But then, there are so many different car companies (and even BRANDS within car companies) that people eventually can pick which car they like to drive. The same goes for every other 'mass marketed' product that you can buy.

 

Making everyone happy is a lofty goal that is generally unattainable. Unless everyone wants to drive a Tempo.

[Ocean Boy]

 

It would be great if there were some way to prove that the majority of the "me' date=' me, me" dress-code violators are also the chair hogs, seat hogs, and line-breakers.:D

 

Allen[/quote']

It would also be very interesting if it turns out that the "fashionistas" are the ones doing that other stuff!!:D

[Lifes2short]

I would agree and also point out that in this case it works both ways. It doesn't make much sense to me that those who are disregarding the cruise line's request are the ones that should be shown the most consideration.

 

You've made a good point Ma Bell...I guess the question that comes up is if it's a "request" is that a "suggestion" or a "mandatory guideline?" :confused:

Like you, "Happy Sailings." :)

[WeBeCruisin']

Perhaps I should have clarified my feeling on my first post. I believe in adhering to the formal attire and not changing after dinner. I don't think Celebrity is "classier" as someone suggested. I do think they have tried to maintain the air of elegance that used to be the norm on cruising in days long gone. Maybe I'm not saying it right so hopefully you all know what I mean. Not a popular example but think of the elegance of ships like the Titanic or even the Queen Mary.

 

espmass, you have stated it very well. The "disputes" over this issue are primarily between those who chose Celebrity because of the "air of elegance" and resent those who try to take that away from them, and those who feel that their own wishes and desires are far more important than those of the vast majority of the other passengers and Celebrity's very explicit guidelines for appropriate dress.

[tbelian]

I guess the question that comes up is if it's a "request" is that a "suggestion" or a "mandatory guideline?" :confused:

 

This is something that really puzzles me. Wouldn't you say that most of the people arguing against dressing a certain way feel that following a certain dress code just naturally goes against their 'grain'? If that's the case, how would the wording suggested or mandatory make a difference to these people one way or another? If it was changed to mandatory, would these people seek a different cruise line? Or would they go on Celebrity and do what they wanted to do anyway?

[catmand]

I wonder what the age breakdowns are on those who follow the suggested dress and those who do not?

We have dressed in formal wear and spent the evening that way. We have dressed in formal wear for dinner, changed sometime after dinner and found more than enough to do on the upper decks and in our cabin. We have also stayed in casual dress on formal nights, had dinner in the buffet area and played ping pong and/or other games for the remainder of the evening. When we were not in formal dress it was very easy to find alternatives to the casino, show, and other public areas. There seem to be opportunities to do/see pretty much everything during the cruise, and see it at appropriate times.

One of the formal evenings on the last cruise we did go to the theater for a 10:30 show. I am not going to guess as to the number of folks who had "dressed down" some, because those that did still looked very nice. Actually I would have been hard pressed to tell you the difference in a dress that was black and "formal" and a dark ladies pant suit with a shawl and necklace that was (I guess) on the high side of casual.

However, the two men that walked in, one dressed in a M & M "VEGAS" t-shirt and the other in a shirt with a big tongue on it, they were far from trying their best to be comfortable and "blend."

 

I wonder why the two ladies that eventually sat with t-shirt guys walked together a few yards behind them. Yes, it was embarrassing.

It is the blatant "in your face" I don't care folks that I do not understand. Is asking someone to conform to the standard OR find any number of other places to go and things to do such a hardship?

[Lifes2short]

By letting people do whatever they want. I guess this is the compromise you are referring to?

The game of life is about "compromising." To "not compromise" is to "not grow." It sounds like "Ocean Boy" understands that and has come-up w/a great solution. Ocean Boy sounds very growth-orientied/open-minded. How about a "toast to "compromise?"

"Happy Sailings" to all! :)

[Ocean Boy]

Cerrtainly.

 

Follow the dress code.

 

Does that make everyone happy? No. But then, there are so many different car companies (and even BRANDS within car companies) that people eventually can pick which car they like to drive. The same goes for every other 'mass marketed' product that you can buy.

 

Making everyone happy is a lofty goal that is generally unattainable. Unless everyone wants to drive a Tempo.

Right, it doesn't make everyone happy. The issue is whether Celebrity is willing to loose any of those people. That is not your decision to make. If they truly want formal night to work as it is supposed to then the first thing they should do is get rid of the casual dining option. It makes no sense to offer something for those who don't want to dress up and then tell them that they will have no access to the rest of the ship.

 

If dress code was the only thing that separated Celebrity from the other mass market lines your argument would certainly work. Why choose Celebrity if you don't want to follow the guidelines? However, there are plenty of other things that factor into choosing a cruise line. Therefore, Celebrity has provided casual dining so those you choose Celebrity for all those other reasons don't have to participate in formal dining if they do not care to. But to then expect these people to be confined to their cabins, outer decks, or gym areas just seems a bit wrong.

[joelmarj]

What always amazes me about this topic is that the "rebels" of the dress code seem to think that the cruiselines either aren't talking to them, or are only "suggesting that maybe they want to participate in the fun", like its some Halloween party. They also get offended that the cruiselines have the nerve to dictate what they wear. Have these people ever been to a fine restaurant that says "Jacket required"? Do they go there and protest saying this is my dinner and I'll wear what I want? Or do they avoid going there because the retaurant has the nerve to tell them what to wear? Well, how is the cruise any different. Yes, Celebrity tries to maintain a certain atmosphere, just as many restaurants do and the attire for the evening is a key element.

 

Perhaps the use of the word "classier" was not the intention of a class distinction, but perhaps to describe a more "formal" experience as to Celebrity tries for overall. There is a difference between an RCCL cruise and a Celebrity one. It's all about the atmosphere they are creating.

 

Every cruiseline has it's primary demographics, which allow you to choose a cruise based on what you want your experience to be. I'm not looking for a party of hairy leg contests like on some lines, I'm not interested at all in Freestyle Dining like some cruiselines and overall I prefer the "atmosphere" of Celebrity, so that's were I go. Will I take other lines, maybe, but I'll go into it knowing what the expectations and atmosphere will require.

[Lifes2short]

This is something that really puzzles me. Wouldn't you say that most of the people arguing against dressing a certain way feel that following a certain dress code just naturally goes against their 'grain'? If that's the case, how would the wording suggested or mandatory make a difference to these people one way or another? If it was changed to mandatory, would these people seek a different cruise line? Or would they go on Celebrity and do what they wanted to do anyway?

 

Awww...good point tbelian. I do indeed think, it might "deter some cruisers" from booking a line that demands/mandates as oppose to suggest/recommend a certain dress code. I agree w/you that there will always be those who go and defy the rules but it might really give a cruiser a "heads-up" on what to expect. Therefore, some cruisers may possibly have second thoughts and choose a different line. That might keep the more "against the grains" on different lines. My guess is "Celebrity" may have lost past cruisers due to "mandatory" and are now regretting it. Just my opinion. Our last cruise 9/24/Mercury was not sold out.

Happy Sailings! :)

[tbelian]

So, i'm still trying to understand where the compromise part comes into play, if its not just letting people do what they want. That is not a compromise, it is abandonment of something that originally was there for a reason. Abandoning it completely would only cater to those who disagree with it. For those who agree with it, it is not a compromise. Wouldn't Celebrity stand just as much of a chance of losing people by throwing out completely their suggested dress as they would if they enforced it? Ship board experiences (other than the one instance mentioned about 'WIDELY disregarded) have proven that by far the majority of passngers comply with what is suggested rather than don't.

 

If they throw it out, I'm betting the number of people unhappy with that decision (and potential marke t loss) would be larger than those who would be happy with it.

[tbelian]

My guess is "Celebrity" may have lost past cruisers due to "mandatory" and are now regretting it.

 

I don't ever remember (over the course of 7 Celebrity cruises in 8 years) a time when dress code was mandatory. It was alway 'suggested'. And, the fact of the matter is 'suggested' in this context is only a play on words (an attempt to put it 'politely').

 

Perhaps those who have cruised longer on Celebrity can ring in on when anything was 'mandatory' other than the life boat drill. And, unfortunately, getting off the ship at the end of your cruise.

[Lifes2short]

I don't ever remember (over the course of 7 Celebrity cruises in 8 years) a time when dress code was mandatory. It was alway 'suggested'. And, the fact of the matter is 'suggested' in this context is only a play on words (an attempt to put it 'politely').

 

Perhaps those who have cruised longer on Celebrity can ring in on when anything was 'mandatory' other than the life boat drill. And, unfortunately, getting off the ship at the end of your cruise.

 

Super....I like the sound of that. It looks like you just answered your own question. There's no "mandatory dress code." It works for me. ;) We do both casual/dress-up.

Happy Sailings...:)

[Ocean Boy]

Wouldn't Celebrity stand just as much of a chance of losing people by throwing out completely their suggested dress as they would if they enforced it? Ship board experiences (other than the one instance mentioned about 'WIDELY disregarded) have proven that by far the majority of passngers comply with what is suggested rather than don't.

 

If they throw it out, I'm betting the number of people unhappy with that decision (and potential marke t loss) would be larger than those who would be happy with it.

Where would those unhappy people go to? You are asking all the right questions and I am betting that Celebrity is paying someone very big money to answer the questions that you are posing.

[WeBeCruisin']

The game of life is about "compromising." To "not compromise" is to "not grow."

 

 

Balderdash.

 

Those who don't follow the dress code are, according, to many polls on CC, less than five percent.

 

If five percent of your church congregation want to listen to Eminem instead of singing hymns, should the church compromise? If you go to a jazz concert and five percent want bluegrass, should the concert compromise? If you go to a theater and the signs say "No Talking" but five percent of the people there want to talk loudly, should the theater compromise? If it says "No Smoking" in the hospital, but you want to fire one up, should the hospital compromise to assuage your minority desires?

 

"To compromise is to grow". Is that from Dr. Phil, Rod McKuen, or Jessica Simpson? :rolleyes:

 

Allen

[Lifes2short]

So, i'm still trying to understand where the compromise part comes into play, if its not just letting people do what they want. That is not a compromise, it is abandonment of something that originally was there for a reason. Abandoning it completely would only cater to those who disagree with it. For those who agree with it, it is not a compromise. Wouldn't Celebrity stand just as much of a chance of losing people by throwing out completely their suggested dress as they would if they enforced it? Ship board experiences (other than the one instance mentioned about 'WIDELY disregarded) have proven that by far the majority of passngers comply with what is suggested rather than don't.

 

If they throw it out, I'm betting the number of people unhappy with that decision (and potential marke t loss) would be larger than those who would be happy with it.

Abandonment isn't the same as compromise. Abandon, is to give-up. Compromise, is to make concessions. Quite a difference. Hope this helps. :)

[constantcruiser]

I'm not proud to admit this...but to make a statement on a recent 10-day cruise, my husband actually wore a BATHROBE & A BASEBALL CAP to the repeat passengers' reception! Because this was a repositioning itinerary that started & ended in different cities, we booked our air through the cruiseline (which we seldom do). My bag made it aboard the ship...but my husband's didn't! Luckily we always pack one outfit in each other's suitcase, but not a whole week's wardrobe. We spent all of the first evening talking to Guest Relations and calling & sending e-mail messages to the airlines and port staff. Each one blamed the other for "misplacing" his bag.

 

To make matters worse, DH had rented a tux to be delivered to the ship. He's done this on several occasions and never had a problem. We ordered the tux on-line almost a month before we sailed & received written confirmation. Unfortunately we spent so much of the first day trying to locate his luggage that we never noticed his tux wasn't delivered! Early the next morning (the first formal night & at sea), we called Guest Relations to inquire about the tux. They assured us it would be in our cabin by 10:00. After lunch, still no tux. Another call, another excuse -- this time they said it was being pressed and would be delivered by 3:00. You guessed it..no tux. When we returned to the cabin about 5:00, a suit bag was hanging in our closet. A good sign, or so we thought. It turned out to be a tux that was 3 SIZES SMALLER than we ordered. Needless to say, DH couldn't squeeze into it even then (which left no hope for the 2nd formal night!), so I returned it to the tailor, showed him the confirmation letter and explained that it was the wrong tux. His gracious response to me was, "Too bad--we don't have one in his size--go tell Guest Relations!" By then Guest Relations staff were already hiding behind the desk whenever they saw DH or me in line, but at least they apologized profusely and had room service deliver a very nice steak & lobster dinner and a bottle of champagne to our cabin so we could dine in the privacy of our balcony, with DH wearing what few clothes he had left!

 

The next day was again at sea, so of course no luggage magically appeared...but Guest Relations did offer DH a gift certificate to the logo shop so he could purchase more clothes. I should probably point out that DH is 6'5" 250 lbs.-- and the only thing in the gift shop large enough to fit him was a baseball cap! By then he was so disgusted that he bought the cap, donned the complimentary undersized bathrobe and trotted off to join the other repeaters and the captain! The Hotel Manager was the first to spot him, and as politely as possible, inquire about his attire. DH was quick to relay the story. With a panic-stricken look on his face, the Hotel Manager frantically called the ship's laundry. Within an hour enough clothes to outfit DH for at least a week were delivered to our cabin...and nearly all in his size! Later we learned the Hotel Manager had directed the laundry staff to locate the wardrobe of 2 crew members who were DH's height & weight, clean their clothes and deliver them to us! When DH's luggage caught up to us at the next port, he returned all of the "loaner" clothes to Guest Relations...and we spent the rest of the cruise wondering which crew members had to spend 2 days in their cabins wearing their pajamas!

[tbelian]

Compromise, is to make concessions.

 

And, usually, it's a two way street. Please refer me to whatever post in this thread suggested a real compromise?

 

For example 'I'll go ahead and change into casual cloths after dinner on formal night so I can go to the show, and in return you will be able to <fill in the other part of the compromise here>'

 

I haven't seen one yet, reading back through both pages, at least twice.

[Lifes2short]

And, usually, it's a two way street. Please refer me to whatever post in this thread suggested a real compromise?

 

For example 'I'll go ahead and change into casual cloths after dinner on formal night so I can go to the show, and in return you will be able to <fill in the other part of the compromise here>'

 

I haven't seen one yet, reading back through both pages, at least twice.

I think you just did a nice job of finding your own compromise. You'll change into casual clothes after dinner, guessing you dressed-up for dinner? Great compromise.....:)

[Ocean Boy]

And, usually, it's a two way street. Please refer me to whatever post in this thread suggested a real compromise?

 

For example 'I'll go ahead and change into casual cloths after dinner on formal night so I can go to the show, and in return you will be able to <fill in the other part of the compromise here>'

 

I haven't seen one yet, reading back through both pages, at least twice.

and in return you will be able to possible enjoy your dinner and not become nauseated from the scenary as I will be dressed just as requested<----- I thought I'd try that one out.:eek:

[Ocean Boy]

And, usually, it's a two way street. Please refer me to whatever post in this thread suggested a real compromise?

 

For example 'I'll go ahead and change into casual cloths after dinner on formal night so I can go to the show, and in return you will be able to <fill in the other part of the compromise here>'

 

I haven't seen one yet, reading back through both pages, at least twice.

and in return you will be able to possible enjoy your dinner and not become nauseated from the scenary as I will be dressed just as requested<----- I thought I'd try that one out.:eek: ;)