School Holiday Cruises

[Tom Baker]

Just a heads up to those booking an advertised "school holiday cruise" check with YOUR school before you book.

 

I'm on Ant and Decs SNT / school holiday cruise. I was stupid enough to book thinking that my kids school would actually take the Easter Holidays at EASTER :eek:

 

Appears not :( They give them occasional days for Good Friday and Easter Monday and then start their holidays a week after Easter!

 

SILLY ME!!! should've known! Still the £240 fine will upset our stewards and waiters more than it will upset me :D :D :D

[Thejuggler]

P&O are remiss in their advertising as Scottish summer holidays have never been the same as England and Wales, but it is down to parents to know when holidays are.

 

With more and more academies and free schools the concept of a fixed school holidays is long gone.

 

My nephew finishes for Easter today, friends next Thursday, yet our local schools don't finish for "Easter" until two weeks today, another I'm aware of is having three weeks and a day.

 

Some schools are moving to four weeks in the summer with an extra week at Spring Bank and a week in September.

[the english lady]

Just a heads up to those booking an advertised "school holiday cruise" check with YOUR school before you book.

 

I'm on Ant and Decs SNT / school holiday cruise. I was stupid enough to book thinking that my kids school would actually take the Easter Holidays at EASTER :eek:

 

Appears not :( They give them occasional days for Good Friday and Easter Monday and then start their holidays a week after Easter!

 

SILLY ME!!! should've known! Still the £240 fine will upset our stewards and waiters more than it will upset me :D :D :D

 

Tom one feels it is up to you to know when your children are on school holidays, not Pando...

I would also assume your last sentence is a joke, as I am sure if you can afford to cruise you can afford to pay your fine and tip!!!!!

[Eglesbrech]

Schools have many different holiday dates and probably more change to come once the academies are in place. Goveners could vote to scrap the traditional holidays altogether and have something different.

 

While I agree with TEL that it is a matter for parents to know when the holidays in their area are, P&O are perhaps sailing (parden the pun) close to the wind in terms of advertising standards unless there is small print somewhere that indicates it is school holidays say in Southampton. When you are aiming at a UK wide market it is perhaps a little unwise.

 

Do they actually impose fines?

[the english lady]

Schools have many different holiday dates and probably more change to come once the academies are in place. Goveners could vote to scrap the traditional holidays altogether and have something different.

 

While I agree with TEL that it is a matter for parents to know when the holidays in their area are, P&O are perhaps sailing (parden the pun) close to the wind in terms of advertising standards unless there is small print somewhere that indicates it is school holidays say in Southampton. When you are aiming at a UK wide market it is perhaps a little unwise.

 

Do they actually impose fines?

 

Yes schools have fined people in the past for taking their children out of school without permission. Parents have also ended up in prison I believe for not making sure their children go to school.

[Presto2]

Yes schools have fined people in the past for taking their children out of school without permission. Parents have also ended up in prison I believe for not making sure their children go to school.

 

Some schools / Local Authorities do and some don't. Bit of a mess really to be honest.

 

To end up in prison attendance has to be pretty dire and have been a long term concern, so I doubt that going on a holiday in term time would lead to this.

[john watson]

What is a good idea is to look on http://www.myschoolholidays.com and search by school name or council areas. Obviously if you go by precise name of school it is better but you can search regionally then narrow it down to just towns or exact schools. I mark up an A4 week to view diary inside the covers with a highlighter for current and subsequent year using the online information on this website, it works well.

 

Regards John

Edited March 19, 2016 by john watson

[tillybilly321]

Schools have many different holiday dates and probably more change to come once the academies are in place. Goveners could vote to scrap the traditional holidays altogether and have something different.

 

While I agree with TEL that it is a matter for parents to know when the holidays in their area are, P&O are perhaps sailing (parden the pun) close to the wind in terms of advertising standards unless there is small print somewhere that indicates it is school holidays say in Southampton. When you are aiming at a UK wide market it is perhaps a little unwise.

 

Do they actually impose fines?

 

 

In P&O's defence, they do actually have a disclaimer on both their website and brochures stating that school holidays vary from region to region. As another poster has stated Scottish children have much earlier holidays, they return to school in August and I believe that Northern Irish schools have extremely long summer breaks.

Easter is always a problematic holiday as the dates vary from year to year, meaning schools have to decide whether to include it in the end of term break or just treat it as an additional bank holiday weekend.

 

Schools have much more control over term dates now and there are certainly no " standard " holiday dates. My own 2 children attend the same academy, one in Primary, the other in Secondary, and whilst the holidays are broadly the same, teacher training days are not. This meant that my son finished for the summer last year almost a week before his sister.

 

I certainly wouldn't book any holiday without checking with my children's holiday list and to threaten to remove tips due to a mistake made by the OP himself is a little silly.

[Tom Baker]

Obviously I'm not blaming P&O in the slightest. As a staunch advocate of people paying their tips I am joking about not paying them, I'm sorry if the THREE "Big Grins" after the comment were not noted by some (I'm used to people reading emoji s (living with teenagers)

 

What I'm trying to do is highlight the stupidity of the entire system. The whole fine system is a mess.

 

Local Authorities individually decide whether to fine or not, a post code lottery

Private and independent schools do not have to report absences

Academys can employ their own Education Welfare Officers who are not answerable to anyone.

If your child attends an under-subscribed school, you can simply declare the child "Educated Otherwise" and re enrol them on your return to avoid paying the fine.

You can phone in sick for your children to avoid the fine.

Provided your child misses less than 10 sessions (a full week) the LA will not prosecute.

 

If you lie, play the system or have money to pay for your childs education then you can get away without being fined. Unfortunately if you are honest play fair and play the game you will be fined.

 

To me the fine is irrelevant, the opportunity for my kids to see the Colosseum, The siege tunnels in Gib, Gaudis work in Barcelona, Napoleons birthplace and one of the worlds only tortoise sanctuaries is far more educational than a week in the classroom, but each to their own.

[the english lady]

I had got the drift of your email....even though I do not have children...but just in case...

[Eglesbrech]

Well we live and learn I had no idea about the fines (don't have any relatives with children). It would however explain something I saw at the airport.

 

I entirely agree that there is educational merit in taking children to see "history"' if there was not then schools would not run the trips they do. You remember so much more about things you have experienced rather than just seen in text books.

 

Friends of our have also used trips abroad to progress their children,s language learning. One requested that the bar and restaurant staff not to serve hers unless they asked for it Spanish! The learning curve was sharp and effective. Her some is now an expert in the vocabulary for food types if nothing else.

 

It will be interesting to see what P&O and other lines do re pricing if the change to schools takes away the real peak periods.

[groovechick]

Obviously I'm not blaming P&O in the slightest. As a staunch advocate of people paying their tips I am joking about not paying them, I'm sorry if the THREE "Big Grins" after the comment were not noted by some (I'm used to people reading emoji s (living with teenagers)

 

What I'm trying to do is highlight the stupidity of the entire system. The whole fine system is a mess.

 

Local Authorities individually decide whether to fine or not, a post code lottery

Private and independent schools do not have to report absences

Academys can employ their own Education Welfare Officers who are not answerable to anyone.

If your child attends an under-subscribed school, you can simply declare the child "Educated Otherwise" and re enrol them on your return to avoid paying the fine.

You can phone in sick for your children to avoid the fine.

Provided your child misses less than 10 sessions (a full week) the LA will not prosecute.

 

If you lie, play the system or have money to pay for your childs education then you can get away without being fined. Unfortunately if you are honest play fair and play the game you will be fined.

 

To me the fine is irrelevant, the opportunity for my kids to see the Colosseum, The siege tunnels in Gib, Gaudis work in Barcelona, Napoleons birthplace and one of the worlds only tortoise sanctuaries is far more educational than a week in the classroom, but each to their own.

 

Could not agree with you more, Tom Baker. Also, IME, schools target the parents whose children normally have very good attendance - the moment there is the slightest deviation they come down on you like a ton of bricks, because you're easier to deal with than the children who truant constantly/parents don't give a damn.

[Presto2]

Could not agree with you more, Tom Baker. Also, IME, schools target the parents whose children normally have very good attendance - the moment there is the slightest deviation they come down on you like a ton of bricks, because you're easier to deal with than the children who truant constantly/parents don't give a damn.

 

Can't talk for others but this is not true in my experience.

 

How can you say this when you probably (am guessing) have little or no idea what is going on behind the scenes in these situations? What proof do you have to back this up????

 

Let's not turn this in to a 'bash the schools' debate - there are enough of those around.

 

Let's get back to the topic

[Mysticalmother]

Not passing any judgement here......honestly! Just trying to put a balanced post.

 

As an (ex) school Governor, I heard both sides of the story. The disruption to a child at a crucial stage in the school year....eg missing the Christmas festivities, (i have seen children in tears because they are missing the school play) the end of term jollities, the start of a new school year bonding. Yes - some parents do take their children out of school at the start of the autumn term! Not to mention missing SATS. The fact that teachers cannot under any circumstances take even one day off to avoid huge holiday surcharges for their own children.

 

The parents saving silly money ( and that can be really silly money) by going away 3 days earlier. Parents whose employers simply will not give them time off during normal school holidays - maybe because of seasonal employment. Or employers simply saying " those are your holiday dates" . It happens. And more....

 

There is no easy answer. Hopefully most parents will make the right decision for their child. There are of course a few (parents ) who just think of themselves, but hopefully they are few and far between. And the education the children get from visiting foreign places ( not the waterparks and beaches....!) may outweigh the few days they miss from school.

 

food for thought...

Edited March 19, 2016 by Mysticalmother

[Tom Baker]

I forgot to mention earlier that in my local authority if you are a parent and work in a different local authority (in a school environment) and your holidays don't match with those of your child at another school then you can take your child out of school during YOUR allocated holidays and you WILL NOT be fined for taking your child out in term time, but DOESN'T allow you to do so if you are a Police Officer, Fire Officer, Doctor or other profession which may have set holidays imposed.

 

Absolute shambles of a law, one rule for one and one rule for another, disgraceful :mad:

[MawganTr]

Slightly more crucial when booking a 'school holiday cruise' is that those of us that are teachers check the dates!! Absolutely no chance of taking time off in term time for holidays!! (Cue the comments about us getting more than enough holiday anyway etc. Yes. We do. Have no intention of trying to go during term time...id get more than a fine!)

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[the english lady]

well you learn something every day on here. I knew about the fines etc, I didn't realise that the rest of it was such a total pigs ear.

3 million years ago when I was at school 2 of my school trips were Royal Ascot and Wimbledon. Not sure what that taught me as I do not watch either these days.

[Josy1953]

I believe that a guy on IOW has twice successfully gone to court and not had to pay the fine so creating a legal precedent. The key point is that people are being fined for taking their children out of school to go on holiday but the law does not mention holidays and if you can show that having taken the child out of school for a holiday has not caused their attendance to fall below the legally required attendance then you can argue that the fine is illegal.

 

I have no children so for me it is not important but I feel that wherever possible children should have 100% attendance however I do understand the sometimes due to the parents' professions there are occasions when to have a family holiday is only possible during term time. Common sense really does need to be applied and each case should be assessed on a case by case basis.

[gadabout60]

I don't have children so my only personal interest is really trying to avoid taking a cruise when there may be hundreds of children on the ship.

 

I do think however, thinking back to my own schooldays, that it's not just the children who are absent whose education is affected. If children miss vital lessons where some important matters are taught, it can hold up the rest of the class while some points are rehashed for the benefit of the absent kids on their return. That definitely happened in our maths class.

 

However if it's the last few days of term, in my day all we did was play games so missing that would not have mattered.

[Johngela13]

We saved £1800 by taking my daughter out of school for the 3 days that lead up to the Scottish school hols (Started 10th Oct for a forthright last year) and by driving down to Newcastle to catch Thomsons flight - package hol to Florida - I am absolutely not exaggerating. This was compared to identical holiday flying on the 10th from Edinburgh / Glasgow.

 

Anyway, she was sick for those 3 days .....

 

I was under the impression that the P&O school hols flag was more to advertised that these were child friendly hols? My daughter was with us one of these last year and there was no more than a dozen children on board even then - as a consequence she got lots of prizes in the kids club - she was one of only 2 teens that attended.

 

Anyway, she is old enough to stay at home now and is working...

 

Whoop second holiday child free for hubby and I :)

[Presto2]

Common sense really does need to be applied and each case should be assessed on a case by case basis.

 

Headteachers had the chance to use common sense once upon a time, but sadly the Government stopped them allowing parents to take the children out of school in term time for anything other than exceptional circumstances - and a family holiday can't be classed as that.

 

If the holidays all become different for every Local Authority / academy then this will give the travel industry more of a headache as they won't have a specific time when they can put the prices up.

[Tom Baker]

Teachers do a wonderful job, I've absolutely the highest respect for them, now more than ever. They have to do far more than ever, most of it doesn't involve teaching. I note that teachers are in school before 8am and do not leave in some circumstances while 6pm.

 

Most teachers I know support a common sense approach and freely admit that a trip to Gib or Rome is far more educational than your average day in school. Children with autism (for example) benefit from the social interaction you get on a ship, routine, set dinner times, organised, timed events etc and again this really does improve their education.

 

My daughter starts school at 8.15am and finishes at 4,30pm (the standard school day is 8.45am to 3pm) The extra 2 hours a day spent in education (her own choice) isn't taken into account. Even though she currently has a 100% attendance record and has done over 120 hours more in school (in 2 terms - 20 EXTRA school days) than anyone else in "normal" school counts for nothing.

 

Mr Platt from the IOW has been vindicated by the court. Unfortunately his stance is not recognised nationally and it depends how sympathetic the magistrate is on the day. With an staunch anti parent ex-headteacher on the bench he could have easy ended up with 3 months in prison and a huge fine and costs.

 

No consistency, postcode lottery anf no president from Mr Platts court case leaves the system and the law a joke.

[tillybilly321]

Firstly my apologies to Tom the OP. I should take more notice of the icons at the end of his comments ! My excuse is that they are very small on my tablet.

 

I personally think school holidays will have to have a radical overhaul over the next few years if these silly rules and regulations continue. The timing and duration of the holidays have not changed in decades whereas people's working hours and jobs have. Gone are the days of factories closing for the same 2 weeks in the summer, shops staying closed on bank holidays and the traditional Mon- Fri 9 to 5 working week. We live and work a 24-7 life now. Added to this is the fact that most women also now work, trying to coordinate annual leave with both your partner and the school is sometimes almost impossible.

I'm really not sure what the answer would be, but the old system of having 10 discretionary days to play with, was a help. This didn't mean that parents would take all these days, just that there was an option to start or end a holiday a few days later or earlier. A particular bonus when you look at a week's half term holiday which you find leaves on a Friday or Monday !

 

Sadly I can't see any changes happening soon, and even if they did, I'm sure the holiday companies would just extend their peak seasons :mad:

[tartanexile81]

Not passing any judgement here......honestly! Just trying to put a balanced post.

 

As an (ex) school Governor, I heard both sides of the story. The disruption to a child at a crucial stage in the school year....eg missing the Christmas festivities, (i have seen children in tears because they are missing the school play) the end of term jollities, the start of a new school year bonding. Yes - some parents do take their children out of school at the start of the autumn term! Not to mention missing SATS. The fact that teachers cannot under any circumstances take even one day off to avoid huge holiday surcharges for their own children.

 

The parents saving silly money ( and that can be really silly money) by going away 3 days earlier. Parents whose employers simply will not give them time off during normal school holidays - maybe because of seasonal employment. Or employers simply saying " those are your holiday dates" . It happens. And more....

 

There is no easy answer. Hopefully most parents will make the right decision for their child. There are of course a few (parents ) who just think of themselves, but hopefully they are few and far between. And the education the children get from visiting foreign places ( not the waterparks and beaches....!) may outweigh the few days they miss from school.

 

food for thought...

 

Others may not agree with us mysticalmother but I'm on your side. I was a teacher / head for 36 years and it annoys me when parents say the children will be getting an education about the world when they're cruising. Anyway the same experiences - waterparks and beaches included - are there during the school holidays AND the child will still have a full education.

 

As far as the OP is concerned, I'm sure every school send out a holiday list at the start of the academic year and it might be a good idea to check that - instead of P&O's website :)

[Tom Baker]

You're right, of course you're right you were a head teacher for 36 years. I booked a £4k cruise on a whim, without doing my homework! I got detention, a slap on the wrist and a £240 fine.

 

I accept that, that's not the issue, please try to read through the whole thing before submitting your answer ;)

 

My peeve is ... If I wanted to avoid punishment I could, If I lied or played the system I could avoid the fine. However lying and manipulation are two qualities I don't want to teach my children.

 

I could "EO" them (you'll know what that means, you were a head teacher for 36 years) No sanction, no punishment, no fine and have a jolly good laugh at beating the government and the EWO, BUT what sort of example does that set on how to behave in society?

 

Lets face facts this is a TAX on the poor and middle classes (the public schools are exempt from this law ... why? It's because it's one rule for them and another for the rest. Nothing to do with education of kids, my kids have a 100% record so far, and I'm sure that I could make the same case as Mr Platt from the IOW and win, but being a head teacher for 36 years AND someone with integrity and morality you know this already.

 

My kids have been Ice skating, singing, dancing, to Blackpool, bowling, to London and to three shows in school term time this year, not to mention the workshops, actors and guests they have had in school. Plus the endless supply of substitute teachers who put on a video or teach them things they have already covered. Zulu last week!

 

Remember the LAW states "EDUCATION IS COMPULSORY ... SCHOOL IS NOT"

 

I'd say a trip to the Colosseum, Acropolis, Pisa, The Pyramids or Pompeii beats December in Blackpool, but hey, what do I know? I don't have a career ... I gave it up for my kids :eek:

Edited March 21, 2016 by Tom Baker