How to test for true Voom.

[Vigilant007]

I'll be on it in September. I hope real-Voom is active by then. If not, I'm not paying for it. It's unbearable.

 

 

 

Last time, I did use Royal Caribbean's website for free through the Wi-Fi on high-orbit satellite, to look at excursions. I'll likely try that again, and I'll do a traceroute and ping to their site if nobody has done it by then. I'll be on a western Caribbean route.

 

 

 

I'd pay for real high speed but I'm not paying for what I had on Navigator last year.

 

 

 

I'm hoping the equipment for true Voom is on the ship, and just hasn't been activated yet. I've done enough work in data centers to know that just because the equipment is there doesn't mean that the line is provisioned. I'd imagine the same is probably true with this.

[johnjen]

Since you are so authoritarian on the subject on the subject of TCP I will just point out that TCP doesn't use packets it uses SEGMENTS. Those segments are encapsulated in IP Packets at layer 3 but then those get stuffed into layer 2 PDUs (whether those be Frames, Cells, HDLC, etc.) All of which get transmitted as bits at layer 1.

 

Also, you are not ACKing on every single segment due to the variable TCP window sizing that is part of the protocol.

 

BTW, even if we were talking about IP packets here, the maximum header size is 60 bytes so a 1500 bytes IP packet would have 1440 bytes of data per packet. (not the sloppy 1200 guess)

 

Finally, maybe you should look into the HTTP protocol because as of version 1.1 it does not require that you create a separate TCP session for each element on the same page. In fact you can open a persistent connection:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_persistent_connection

 

Page design plays a factor in this of course.

 

We talking networking now? Maybe you are not the authority on TCP/IP either. :)

 

You are the wind beneath my wings. Everyone's an expert in this thread. Dont'cha love it....

 

As for me, I'll be vacationing, and the last thing I wanna do is IT....my wife would kick my rear end.

 

It's miller time when we cruise, and dangit, my phone is being turned OFF.

[Vigilant007]

You are the wind beneath my wings. Everyone's an expert in this thread. Dont'cha love it....

 

As for me, I'll be vacationing, and the last thing I wanna do is IT....my wife would kick my rear end.

 

It's miller time when we cruise, and dangit, my phone is being turned OFF.

 

Wheres your sense of adventure?! Nothing says vacation like a beer in one hand, cigar in the other while being on the water.... all while network utilities running on your iPad.

 

Now THATS vacation!

[OuterLimits]

Since you are so authoritarian on the subject on the subject of TCP I will just point out that TCP doesn't use packets it uses SEGMENTS. Those segments are encapsulated in IP Packets at layer 3 but then those get stuffed into layer 2 PDUs (whether those be Frames, Cells, HDLC, etc.) All of which get transmitted as bits at layer 1.

 

Also, you are not ACKing on every single segment due to the variable TCP window sizing that is part of the protocol.

 

BTW, even if we were talking about IP packets here, the maximum header size is 60 bytes so a 1500 bytes IP packet would have 1440 bytes of data per packet. (not the sloppy 1200 guess)

 

Finally, maybe you should look into the HTTP protocol because as of version 1.1 it does not require that you create a separate TCP session for each element on the same page. In fact you can open a persistent connection:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_persistent_connection

 

Page design plays a factor in this of course.

 

We talking networking now? Maybe you are not the authority on TCP/IP either. :)

 

I was including layer 5 + TLS overhead as well in the packets. And you are right about the nomenclature of segments vs packets in terms of the ACKs at the layer 4 level.

 

The segments do have to be acked, but this is why I said "in a short period of time", not immediately. You clearly know, if you don't ack those packets, the server is going to back-off, as it should, since the packets aren't getting acked in reasonable time frame.

 

And, regarding HTTP persistent connections, most media-rich sites use various CDNs to host, not on the same host as the server. Persistent connections only save you the handshake time including the TLS hellos/handshakes/etc. It's not saving you any content transfer time.

Edited May 10, 2016 by OuterLimits
Typo layer 4 vs 5

[NightOne]

As for me, I'll be vacationing, and the last thing I wanna do is IT....my wife would kick my rear end.

 

It's miller time when we cruise, and dangit, my phone is being turned OFF.

 

I put my phone in the safe for retrieval on the last day. I enjoy my time disconnected from the world. It sounds like you are the same. :)

[OuterLimits]

PS - Hard to believe we're arguing 1200 vs 1440 bytes per packet of usable space, when the point was OP was right about proving high-orbit satellite, and others want to believe anything but that, for some reason.

 

Wanting real Voom hard enough isn't enough to make it happen.

[Vigilant007]

PS - Hard to believe we're arguing 1200 vs 1440 bytes per packet of usable space, when the point was OP was right about proving high-orbit satellite, and others want to believe anything but that, for some reason.

 

 

 

Wanting real Voom hard enough isn't enough to make it happen.

 

 

 

Just you wait.... My hopes will spin up that hardware before the 22nd.

[OuterLimits]

Just you wait.... My hopes will spin up that hardware before the 22nd.

 

Tell them to keep it up through September at least, once they spin it up! :D

[Vigilant007]

Tell them to keep it up through September at least, once they spin it up! :D

 

 

 

Ya forgot to say please my friend

[serialcruiser48]

As mentioned earlier, I spoke with the IT Manager and he told me they aren't going to switch to O3b on the Liberty. So, high sat it is.

Also, pinging Googles DNS (8.8.8.8) has an average ping rate of 682 ms. Loosing 2 packets out of 130. Internet seems better today than yesterday since the weather is beautiful and people are outside.

[NightOne]

I was including layer 5 + TLS overhead as well in the packets. And you are right about the nomenclature of segments vs packets in terms of the ACKs at the layer 4 level.

 

The segments do have to be acked, but this is why I said "in a short period of time", not immediately. You clearly know, if you don't ack those packets, the server is going to back-off, as it should, since the packets aren't getting acked in reasonable time frame.

 

First, regarding TLS overhead: Who said these were HTTPS connections? :)

 

Second, regarding TCP ACKs:

 

Yes, but you don't have to ACK each one of them individually. TCP uses a sliding window so that the number of segments that can be sent without an ACK can grow for reliable connections. Example:

 

 

By the way, you are technically ACKing Sequence numbers. (And the window size can be quite large)

 

BTW, every try using Xmodem over a modern day connection?

 

 

And, regarding HTTP persistent connections, most media-rich sites use various CDNs to host, not on the same host as the server. Persistent connections only save you the handshake time including the TLS hellos/handshakes/etc. It's not saving you any content transfer time.

 

Page design matters as I stated in my original reply. However, in the case of content being hosted on the same server ... you know. ;)

[NightOne]

As mentioned earlier, I spoke with the IT Manager and he told me they aren't going to switch to O3b on the Liberty. So, high sat it is.

Also, pinging Googles DNS (8.8.8.8) has an average ping rate of 682 ms. Loosing 2 packets out of 130. Internet seems better today than yesterday since the weather is beautiful and people are outside.

 

You sure it isn't tighting those 2 packets. (sorry, pet peeve)

 

Try pinging your first hop (probably the router --- AKA: The default gateway) and lets see what that looks like. Like someone said earlier, traceroute would give you a better idea of where the most latency is located.

[OuterLimits]

As mentioned earlier, I spoke with the IT Manager and he told me they aren't going to switch to O3b on the Liberty. So, high sat it is.

Also, pinging Googles DNS (8.8.8.8) has an average ping rate of 682 ms. Loosing 2 packets out of 130. Internet seems better today than yesterday since the weather is beautiful and people are outside.

 

That's very sad. Could you still run a traceroute of 8.8.8.8 for us?

[NightOne]

PS - Hard to believe we're arguing 1200 vs 1440 bytes per packet of usable space, when the point was OP was right about proving high-orbit satellite, and others want to believe anything but that, for some reason.

 

Wanting real Voom hard enough isn't enough to make it happen.

 

What the OP is saying isn't necessarily bad info. Higher ping times are definitely higher latency. However, whether that definitively identifies what type of system is being used is not necessarily accurate.

 

When I had a dual internet connection at home (DSL and Cable) the ping times were always higher with the DSL. Could I then unequivocally state that any time I had a higher ping time it was going over the DSL instead of the Cable? No, because it doesn't work that way. :)

 

Again, the OP is just trying to share his methodology for determining network performance (and type) of the internet he is buying on the ship and I don't have an issue with that.

 

I opted to stay out of the deeper network conversations after he originally disagreed with me but then you then came is the King of TCP/IP (hahaha) and started slamming that other poor soul so I had to engage. :D

 

Personally, the LAST thing I would want to do out in the middle of the sea on a cruise would be to stream a movie from Netflix but that is just me. ;)

[serialcruiser48]

That's very sad. Could you still run a traceroute of 8.8.8.8 for us?

 

Here it is.

http://http://pictures.cruisecritic.com/showphoto.php?photo=38038&cat=523

[OuterLimits]

Here it is.

http://http://pictures.cruisecritic.com/showphoto.php?photo=38038&cat=523

 

Thank you! That's odd that none of the hops in between on the public internet replied (or you didn't receive them). I wonder if they're blocking ICMP not sent to the destination. Traceroute works by manipulating the TTL to cause an ICMP reply from intermediate hosts. They could be working to block that, but that seems like a lot of work for no particular reason.

[NightOne]

Thank you! That's odd that none of the hops in between on the public internet replied (or you didn't receive them). I wonder if they're blocking ICMP not sent to the destination. Traceroute works by manipulating the TTL to cause an ICMP reply from intermediate hosts. They could be working to block that, but that seems like a lot of work for no particular reason.

 

The obvious takeaway here is that all the latency in the connection is BEFORE it hits the internet. :)

 

Likely the 'missing" internet hops are configured not to send ICMP echo replies.

[Ryansdaddy]

All this IT chest thumping, weiner comparing makes me thankful I don't work in this industry.:)

 

It's like watching chick fights:):D:)

 

 

Totally joking with you guys....don't hack me!

[OuterLimits]

I'm not interested in wiener comparing. I was just pointing out why OP was right. I want Voom really badly too, but I'm being realistic.

 

I was honestly hoping that Liberty has the hardware and it just wasn't active yet (much like the stupid slide). But OP's conversation with the ship's IT Manager throws cold water on that.

 

I'm not optimistic for September, at this point, and I'm not going to pay for that high-orbit crap. I'd rather totally not use my devices like last time than pay to sit there waiting for stuff to load. I'm ok with either decently fast or not at all. The middle, slow ground is a circle of hell to me.

 

Here's hoping something magically changes before September. I'll keep an eye on the LOTS subforum. :)

[Vigilant007]

I'm not interested in wiener comparing. I was just pointing out why OP was right. I want Voom really badly too, but I'm being realistic.

 

I was honestly hoping that Liberty has the hardware and it just wasn't active yet (much like the stupid slide). But OP's conversation with the ship's IT Manager throws cold water on that.

 

I'm not optimistic for September, at this point, and I'm not going to pay for that high-orbit crap. I'd rather totally not use my devices like last time than pay to sit there waiting for stuff to load. I'm ok with either decently fast or not at all. The middle, slow ground is a circle of hell to me.

 

Here's hoping something magically changes before September. I'll keep an eye on the LOTS subforum. :)

 

You're probably right that the hardware hasn't been installed yet. One thing I've learned the past few weeks of reading people chatting about conversations with the staff is that most of them give BS answers or don't know the whole story. RCI is a company like any other. People in the departments know enough to get their job done for the given day and not much more then that.

 

I'm holding out hope that the hardware is there, just not active.

[PompeySailor]

Someone asked for real data from onboard RC

 

Voom Speed:

Speed Test from Allure March 2016

Not as fast as what we have back home, but still very speedy for our needs.

Latency was very good :)

 

We did not use for streaming just for general photo uploading which was adequate.

This was on deck 11 from inside our cabin. It was free so we only used from Day4 through Day7

 

[OuterLimits]

Someone asked for real data from onboard RC

 

Voom Speed:

Speed Test from Allure March 2016

Not as fast as what we have back home, but still very speedy for our needs.

Latency was very good :)

 

We did not use for streaming just for general photo uploading which was adequate.

This was on deck 11 from inside our cabin. It was free so we only used from Day4 through Day7

 

Those ~20ms pings aren't satellite. I'm not familiar with that ship/itinerary/where it goes. They must have some terrestrial wireless connection or something when closer to the mainland. I wonder what they're patching in.

[PompeySailor]

Those ~20ms pings aren't satellite. I'm not familiar with that ship/itinerary/where it goes. They must have some terrestrial wireless connection or something when closer to the mainland. I wonder what they're patching in.

 

This was our itinerary, no idea on the technicalities, or reasoning behind such great latency results.

Just posting hardcore data actually captured whilst onboard Allure of the Seas :)

 

3/13 Fort Lauderdale

3/14 Nassau

3/15 At Sea

3/16 Charlotte Amelia St Thomas

3/17 Philipsburg St Maarten

3/18 At Sea

3/19 At Sea

3/20 Fort Lauderdale

Edited May 10, 2016 by PompeySailor

[OuterLimits]

This was our itinerary, no idea on the technicalities, or reasoning behind such great latency results.

 

3/13 Fort Lauderdale

3/14 Nassau

3/15 At Sea

3/16 Charlotte Amelia St Thomas

3/17 Philipsburg St Maarten

3/18 At Sea

3/19 At Sea

3/20 Fort Lauderdale

 

I've got nothing. :confused:

[Ryansdaddy]

I'm not interested in wiener comparing. I was just pointing out why OP was right. I want Voom really badly too, but I'm being realistic.

 

I was honestly hoping that Liberty has the hardware and it just wasn't active yet (much like the stupid slide). But OP's conversation with the ship's IT Manager throws cold water on that.

 

I'm not optimistic for September, at this point, and I'm not going to pay for that high-orbit crap. I'd rather totally not use my devices like last time than pay to sit there waiting for stuff to load. I'm ok with either decently fast or not at all. The middle, slow ground is a circle of hell to me.

 

Here's hoping something magically changes before September. I'll keep an eye on the LOTS subforum. :)

 

Oh I know it was all tongue and cheek. Trying to lighen the mood. I will crawl back under my rock now. LOL