Promoting poor etiquette?

[Panda3]

Unless they charged the cruise to your credit card, it really is up to them how they want to pay for their cruise.

 

That was my point of my response. When i responded with that I was referring to different people make different choices! I wasn't making a judgment. that's cool for you.

[A&L_Ont]

This has been a touchy subject for many people on here. My original intent was to hint at a situation that has happened and made a small but devoted community of flowrider cruisers very upset. I did not want to break any of the rules on this site and list where the information or very unhappy people were venting their frustration. It was brought to my attention by another cruiser and the information had not made its way to this forum yet. I can say without a doubt I felt regret for any who had to endure a cruise that they looked forward to and have it made less enjoyable because of something beyond their control. I also feel for the sports crew who are put in a situation that could lead to dealing with unhappy people.

 

For those of you who defend the suite perks I have no issues with that at all. You are spending money how you want to get enjoyment and rewards for your labours. Since you are spending a lot of money Royal should treat you well for doing so. With that being said there are many ways to make sure that those perks don’t have the possibility of making others vacation time less enjoyable. As long as a system is put forward that ensures that a benefit does not allow abuse and create a toxic atmosphere then it will work. The system currently put forth has the possibility of being abused and it has already been proven that it will happen. I am hoping that they can provide a solution that promotes what they originally intended for the suite class.

 

I enjoy the flowrider and have met many great people while waiting/encouraging others in line. I was pretty upset when I posted on here originally and to those who felt offended then I offer an apology. My original “poor etiquette” should have been directed to “flow etiquette”. I now have made a decision though that I will not plan a vacation on a ship where there is a possibility of abusing a system. I have written a letter stating how I felt to several at Royal Caribbean with no response so this issue must not be that important to them. Hopefully others do not have to endure a vacation where an abused policy detracts from your experiences.

 

Maybe someday when this is all resolved I’m hoping that I will be sharing the wave and good times with everyone again.

 

 

Very well stated. A voice of reason. You must be from possibly Ontario and, let me guess... Simcoe.:)

 

I hope my memory is still good.:D

[topnole]

I'm inclined to comment on your last post which is certainly a reasonable viewpoint. However, I must say I looked at the FB posts and read the "rants" (their words not mine) and all of this pretty much gets at the question of what is fair and what is not fair. With that said if we really think about it the whole system on the flowrider is wholly unfair to newer riders and some regulars I've met every time I've cruised tend to hog the time, bully people, pull perks from the crew, etc. which is also very unfair. As an example, a cruise I was on they would never cut the line to end the morning or day shift until a certain rider or riders was/were last in line again. Never when anyone else was. Result, one extra ride for them each session. Is that fair, obviously not. Example, they have an 1/2- 1 hour long session in the morning just for advanced riders. Is that fair? I've been going to that session for a while but I'd have to say it isn't fair to the newbies who often show up not knowing and are turned away. I've even seen some regulars tell the staff that someone isn't advanced enough for advanced sessions (even though they could load themselves) so they were told to leave. Total jerk move just to get more flow time for themselves. Example, regulars get much more time on the flowrider because they could go forever if they want. Is that fair? Not in some people's eyes. It seems some want to dictate what is fair or isn't fair as if it is absolute. It isn't. Was Pez hogging the flowrider? It certainly seems so which is a jerk thing to do. However, what about the newbie who waits 30 minutes, falls right away, and is told to get in the back of the line. Or the regulars who start barking at moderate riders to start trying tricks because they are taking too long. Really what is fair in any of this? Perhaps they should just time each rider. One minute per rider and then it would be fair for all time wise at least. I'm a decent rider, nothing spectacular, and I'm not one that will be in suites much so I'm not trying to defend the new star class system one way or another. But seriously, the regulars have had it really good for years in terms on fairness on the flowrider. I get why they were ranting due to Pez (I was on a star class cruise recently with him when he wasn't star class and he was still a total hog). However, careful what you ask for. I see no official policy on flowrider ride times and whatever they have done in practice varies greatly from ship to ship. Some staffs always let newbies try again after falling and others don't. Some bend the rules for regulars all the time, some don't. However, if you ask RCI to create, change, and/or follow policy that is fair to all they might just create something you don't like (such as allowing all rider equal time each time they get to ride). Worse yet, maybe they just start making people pay to use it at all. That might just be the fairest system. It seems to me not everyone wants fair but more like what is the "fairest" for me. I personally have seen many other abuses of the system to believe that the new star class perk is necessarily a big problem or the only problem that exists with how it is run. Seriously, just look at the pictures on her of Pez. In a bathrobe, pulling his boards shorts down to a a speedo, the staff all wearing shirts with his name on it. You don't think he tries to dominate the flowrider during all the other weeks when he wasn't star class. The guy is 67 as I recall, cruises for weeks in a row, and is pulling down his pants during the show. It isn't like this is his one vacation per year. To me if they stress latitude for staff not to let star class disrupt the flow of the line the system will be just fine. What that won't fix is Pez still being Pez and some regulars still doing what they can to monopolize flow time.

 

There is not perfect system unfortunately.

 

Happy flowriding to all

[John&LaLa]

Nice explanation. I often felt that was kind of the way it is.

[LMaxwell]

Why don't they just open up additionaltime for the Flowrider that ONLY suites can book? That way they get the priority access and additional riding time, without taking away from the regular open times?

[iheartbda]

Long posts with no paragraphs make them difficult to read.;)

[topnole]

Why don't they just open up additionaltime for the Flowrider that ONLY suites can book? That way they get the priority access and additional riding time, without taking away from the regular open times?

 

This is where I say careful what you ask for. They could just end the advanced hour and let the suites use that hour. I mean seriously, if we bring up the issue of regular time, how is it fair to regular riders that advanced riders get an extra hour in the morning. This is a slippery slope my friend.

 

On my cruise not once was the star class line used when I was riding but I certainly went to every advanced hour I could. So I got lots of extra riding in that non advanced guests could not. And for what reason. It really isn't fair that that happens IMO. I don't see any advanced riders complaining that they have an hour just for us that locks out less experienced riders.

 

I even used paragraphs this time to satisfy that recent poster. :cool:

Edited May 26, 2016 by topnole

[juiceman]

Why don't they just open up additionaltime for the Flowrider that ONLY suites can book? That way they get the priority access and additional riding time, without taking away from the regular open times?

 

According to their website that is supposed to be one of their perks.

 

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/royalsuiteclass/star

[GUT2407]

Long posts with no paragraphs make them difficult to read.;)

 

But gee there seem to be a lot of them:eek::p.

[Thetrail]

......IT'S A JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.........:rolleyes:.........(I put that rolleyes in for you The Trail)....:D......now I will refrain from writing about those Boston "Bumsocks".......Oh we always cruise in suites......;)

Thank you! But you must be an "Elitist" if your using the eye roll emoticon!....Have no idea what that means though???....K.O.:)

[Thetrail]

You seem so personally offended by every post that has an opinion that differs from yours. So worked up over message board posts. Bit of a waste of energy.

Offended would be the wrong word......Amused would be more appropriate....:D

[Thetrail]

those are the best seats ;)

That's what I keep telling folks...;)...K.O.

[mil76]

This is where I say careful what you ask for. They could just end the advanced hour and let the suites use that hour. I mean seriously, if we bring up the issue of regular time, how is it fair to regular riders that advanced riders get an extra hour in the morning. This is a slippery slope my friend.

 

On my cruise not once was the star class line used when I was riding but I certainly went to every advanced hour I could. So I got lots of extra riding in that non advanced guests could not. And for what reason. It really isn't fair that that happens IMO. I don't see any advanced riders complaining that they have an hour just for us that locks out less experienced riders.

 

I even used paragraphs this time to satisfy that recent poster. :cool:

 

At least then we could plan accordingly. If I know the Flowrider is not available for a certain time, I know not to go Flowriding that hour. No different than the single Flowrider ships having scheduled boogie board times. That's much better than planning to go to the Flowrider during an open session only to have the line take much longer because someone in Star class is taking one turn for every X number of people in line.

 

The advanced stand-up hour is one of the greatest things about RCCL in my mind. It has nothing to do with class, room category, status, how much you spent on your cruise, or anything else. It simply comes down to merit, based on you spending enough time and effort to get your skills to meet a very minimum threshold (push yourself in from the side with no assistance). There are always guests every cruise who try it for the first time, and devote enough effort during the cruise to learn to start themselves and are doing the advanced hour by the end of the cruise. Where else does Royal allow you to earn a "status" mid-cruise based on not spending extra $$$? I'd better shut up before they try to monetize the advanced hour as well...

[topnole]

At least then we could plan accordingly. If I know the Flowrider is not available for a certain time, I know not to go Flowriding that hour. No different than the single Flowrider ships having scheduled boogie board times. That's much better than planning to go to the Flowrider during an open session only to have the line take much longer because someone in Star class is taking one turn for every X number of people in line.

 

The advanced stand-up hour is one of the greatest things about RCCL in my mind. It has nothing to do with class, room category, status, how much you spent on your cruise, or anything else. It simply comes down to merit, based on you spending enough time and effort to get your skills to meet a very minimum threshold (push yourself in from the side with no assistance). There are always guests every cruise who try it for the first time, and devote enough effort during the cruise to learn to start themselves and are doing the advanced hour by the end of the cruise. Where else does Royal allow you to earn a "status" mid-cruise based on not spending extra $$$? I'd better shut up before they try to monetize the advanced hour as well...

 

So should we base time on the sports court based on who is better at basketball or soccer or dodgeball or whatever? What about the ping pong tables? Seriously, you think being a good flowrider merits certain riders their own hour to the exclusion of others. I guess that is fair to you in your mind. But to others I'm sure they would think otherwise. I like advance hour too and use it but I also realize there is nothing fair about their system with and with out the new star class perks. Just seems to me almost all the autguments here are so hypocritical.

[LMaxwell]

So should we base time on the sports court based on who is better at basketball or soccer or dodgeball or whatever? What about the ping pong tables? Seriously, you think being a good flowrider merits certain riders their own hour to the exclusion of others. I guess that is fair to you in your mind. But to others I'm sure they would think otherwise. I like advance hour too and use it but I also realize there is nothing fair about their system with and with out the new star class perks. Just seems to me almost all the autguments here are so hypocritical.

 

Star class should have ADDITIONAL hours, not hours "in lieu of". Just open the feature up for additional time. Yeah, the crew has to work more hours. Big deal. This is part of the perks Royal is advertising and they should find a way to provide those perks without infringing on other guests, or at least doing so as little as possible / practical.

[topnole]

Star class should have ADDITIONAL hours, not hours "in lieu of". Just open the feature up for additional time. Yeah, the crew has to work more hours. Big deal. This is part of the perks Royal is advertising and they should find a way to provide those perks without infringing on other guests, or at least doing so as little as possible / practical.

 

 

Seriously, think that through. How would it look to others if the sports decks was shut down for certain times just for 11 cabins to use on the ship. That would look a lot worse than whatever a few people were complaining about on one cruise. Ok, so you say do it before or after. Do you think the big spenders really want to go at 7 am or 6 pm. I'm sure that wouldn't be the ideal time. So this means they would probably shut it down during peak day hours if they really wanted to cater to the few star class guests interested in the flowrider.

 

No mater how you do it no one is happy and it was like that long before star class. Advanced hour is B.S. to those not advanced and star class preference is B.S. to those not star class. There is no perfect system, only systems that each of us prefer more. I'll just go with what they have and adapt.

[LMaxwell]

Seriously, think that through. How would it look to others if the sports decks was shut down for certain times just for 11 cabins to use on the ship. That would look a lot worse than whatever a few people were complaining about on one cruise. Ok, so you say do it before or after. Do you think the big spenders really want to go at 7 am or 6 pm. I'm sure that wouldn't be the ideal time. So this means they would probably shut it down during peak day hours if they really wanted to cater to the few star class guests interested in the flowrider.

 

No mater how you do it no one is happy and it was like that long before star class. Advanced hour is B.S. to those not advanced and star class preference is B.S. to those not star class. There is no perfect system, only systems that each of us prefer more. I'll just go with what they have and adapt.

 

There is no perfect system, you are right.

 

I don't know actual hours, so just for discussion sake.

 

Say advanced hour was 10 am - 11am. And "regular hours" were 11am - 3pm. What I propose is adding an hour from 9am - 10am for Star class. Regular hours are still "open to all", but the additional one hour per day is for Star class. I never said you had to shut down the sports deck for this; you just create a gold card additional hour at the feature.

 

I'm not fully up to speed on the various suite classes; so don't know who is open to the benefit or not. It would seem more than 11 cabins though<?>

[JetsFanCruiser]

I'm in star class in August with my wife and 2 boys, ages 12 and 7. They love the flow rider but are beginners. We would be more inclined to use it if there was a designated time for star class. It's not that we wouldn't use it with a designated line, but I must admit id feel a little awkward using the star class line multiple times.

[Lrtalk]

Similar to airlines, want first class; buy first class. Those who pay for premium make the option to buy less more affordable. If you want a good deal on a cruise, thank those who pay a premium for helping make it happen. Everyone has a choice of cabins. Choose wisely.

[Panda3]

Thank you! But you must be an "Elitist" if your using the eye roll emoticon!....Have no idea what that means though???....

 

 

Your favorite emoticon, the eyeroll, is just sorta rude, not elitist.

[jaspercat]

 

 

I even used paragraphs this time to satisfy that recent poster. :cool:

 

Find that comment a bit rude -- topnole, I didn't even read your post for that very reason. A couple of para's with no break -- fine. Way beyond that -- nope.

 

There is no perfect system, you are right.

 

I don't know actual hours, so just for discussion sake.

 

Say advanced hour was 10 am - 11am. And "regular hours" were 11am - 3pm. What I propose is adding an hour from 9am - 10am for Star class. Regular hours are still "open to all", but the additional one hour per day is for Star class. I never said you had to shut down the sports deck for this; you just create a gold card additional hour at the feature.

 

I'm not fully up to speed on the various suite classes; so don't know who is open to the benefit or not. It would seem more than 11 cabins though<?>

 

I haven't been reading up on all the "new or pretend to be new" perks a suite class holds, having them at different hours doesn't seem any different to those that can book private Flowrider times (at that is open to all to book.)?

 

[LMaxwell]

 

I haven't been reading up on all the "new or pretend to be new" perks a suite class holds, having them at different hours doesn't seem any different to those that can book private Flowrider times (at that is open to all to book.)?

 

 

I'm not fully up to speed on the various suite perks either, but private times came at a hefty cost and, to my knowledge, available to anyone that wanted to pay the price for them.

 

I'm just saying to add MORE blocks of hours overall, setting some aside for suites only. I'm not saying to reduce the "general admission" times.

 

Royal has a choice to make; suite perks can come at the expense of other guests experience, or they can have more staff or make staff work more to provide that experience. I think Royal should do all they can to minimize impact on the majority so they can provide what is promised.

[John&LaLa]

According to their website that is supposed to be one of their perks.

 

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/royalsuiteclass/star

 

How did early sessions turn into cut the line anyway?

[LMaxwell]

How did early sessions turn into cut the line anyway?

 

Am I missing something on that page? All I see is

 

"Exclusive Access to Signature Activities".

[jaspercat]

I'm not fully up to speed on the various suite perks either, but private times came at a hefty cost and, to my knowledge, available to anyone that wanted to pay the price for them.

 

I'm just saying to add MORE blocks of hours overall, setting some aside for suites only. I'm not saying to reduce the "general admission" times.

 

Royal has a choice to make; suite perks can come at the expense of other guests experience, or they can have more staff or make staff work more to provide that experience. I think Royal should do all they can to minimize impact on the majority so they can provide what is promised.

 

That was my point -- anyone can book the flowrider for private times. Does that take away from times available for anyone else? I don't know. Yes you have to pay $$$ to do that, but it does take the flowrider out of commission as it would if they allowed setting times aside for suites only.

 

Neither was I --- was just wondering why people could accept that someone bought private time versus "suite only" time when RCI could just say for both "private" and no ones kickers get twisted.