What is fair

[SLOTheta]

Hey -- we have over 1000 days each on HAL.

 

 

 

HAL doesn't care how many days we have -- no special perks or prices for us for cruising so much on HAL.

 

 

I'm new to cruising and this concept is insane that HAL doesn't care about status or how many days you've sailed with them. I travel for work and am Platinum with SPG and many years 1K with United. I can tell you, both went out of their way, and continue to go out of their way to make me happy. I get huge 1500 sq ft suite upgrades, dinners, champagne, adjusted rates, etc. I'm spending 3 weeks after our cruise all on SPG points, and will fully expect to get Presidential suites or other crazy fabulous suites throughout our hotels in Italy. It's peak season, and I know they will roll out the red carpet.

 

The more I read about HAL and the lack of upgrades, complimentary items, help with issues or pricing for Elite members, the more I'm thinking this may be my 1st and last cruise.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

[SLOTheta]

And you do this: return a certain product and then buy it on sale?

 

 

Most major retail establishments, within a certain time window, allow you to bring your receipt back for a price adjustment. They usually fall within 30-90 days. It's quite common. Macys, Nordstroms, even places like Michaels will do it. Not everyone wants to take the time to bring back their receipt, so it's not a mad dash. I've maybe done it twice, since I'm that that concerned, but I know people who hawk pricing on goods and do it all the time.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

[iancal]

HAL sends you a nice magazine, aka advertising supplement, and sometimes charges you more for being a frequent customer just as soon as you enter your Mariner number. Oh, and you get a stylish lapel pin and maybe even a medal.

 

Very different from the treatment we have had at Marriott, Fairmont, and Delta hotels for being frequent customers. Oh well...just as well we are not loyal to any one cruise line.

Edited June 3, 2016 by iancal

[3rdGenCunarder]

I'm new to cruising and this concept is insane that HAL doesn't care about status or how many days you've sailed with them. I travel for work and am Platinum with SPG and many years 1K with United. I can tell you, both went out of their way, and continue to go out of their way to make me happy. I get huge 1500 sq ft suite upgrades, dinners, champagne, adjusted rates, etc. I'm spending 3 weeks after our cruise all on SPG points, and will fully expect to get Presidential suites or other crazy fabulous suites throughout our hotels in Italy. It's peak season, and I know they will roll out the red carpet.

 

The more I read about HAL and the lack of upgrades, complimentary items, help with issues or pricing for Elite members, the more I'm thinking this may be my 1st and last cruise.

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

 

It isn't just HAL. Cruise lines do offer various perks for repeat passengers, but you get what's in their program, not individual extras.

 

Cruising is very different from business travel. If you travel on business, you probably aren't traveling on advance-purchase promo fares, which makes you valuable, especially since you're likely to be back again and again in a fairly short time period. They really want your company's money and they'll treat you well to get it.

 

I don't know how many cruises most people take in a year, but probably not every week, or even every month. So our repeats aren't as frequent (much as we'd like them to be). High-level repeat cruisers don't stand out the way high-level repeat business travelers do. And to some extent, the repeat cruisers are taken for granted. Cruises vary much more than airlines or hotels. Many (but not all, see post above) of us find what we like and stick to it, and the cruise lines are confident they can keep us.

 

So enjoy your upgrades and perks on land, and when you board the ship be prepared to be treated well (HAL is known for gracious service), but they won't single out you (or anyone else) to be treated royally.

Edited June 3, 2016 by 3rdGenCunarder

[3rdGenCunarder]

HAL sends you a nice magazine, aka advertising supplement, and sometimes charges you more for being a frequent customer just as soon as you enter your Mariner number. Oh, and you get a stylish lapel pin and maybe even a medal.

 

Very different from the treatment we have had at Marriott, Fairmont, and Delta hotels for being frequent customers. Oh well...just as well we are not loyal to any one cruise line.

 

(bold is mine)

 

Sad, but true. And it isn't just HAL. A friend whose daughter sailed for the first time on QM2 some years ago got a great offer for another Cunard sailing about a year later. They booked it right away, and tried to book a second cabin for my friend. No, sorry, it was a targeted promotion for new Cunard passengers. Meanwhile, the woman who is Platinum on Cunard couldn't get the fare.

Edited June 3, 2016 by 3rdGenCunarder

[iancal]

I can understand the medal.

 

If I had loyal customers who were willing to pay more for the product than another customer I would happily give them a medal or a lapel pin for increasing my bottom line.

 

It is a lot easier and much less expensive to keep an existing loyal customer than it is to go and find a new one and earn that new customer's loyalty.

Edited June 3, 2016 by iancal

[navybankerteacher]

It isn't just HAL. Cruise lines do offer various perks for repeat passengers, but you get what's in their program, not individual extras.

 

...

 

So enjoy your upgrades and perks on land, and when you board the ship be prepared to be treated well (HAL is known for gracious service), but they won't single out you (or anyone else) to be treated royally.

 

...

 

Precisely on point: I cruise for the overall on board experience - not free laundry or internet time.

 

It is absurd to attempt to relate airline perks with cruise lines' enticements. The airlines' prime targets are business travelers who generally do not focus on cost: either their employers are paying or, if self employed, tax savings represent a big incentive. The (aware and discriminating) cruise passenger will spend many days experiencing a particular line, while the air passenger's attention has to be grabbed differently.

[SilvertoGold]

HAL's Mariner program is set relatively high.

 

Once you hit 200 "cruise days", you receive some very decent rewards.

 

Once you get to 500 cruise days, it is really good, worth hundreds of dollars per cruise.

When the crew know how many actual days you have, as opposed to "cruise days", especially once over 500- 600, you are treated very, very well.

[RocketMan275]

A week after I booked my 12 day cruise at $1798 on the Osterdam (obstructed view) as a single occupancy, HAL reduced that category by 37% ($674.00) to $1124. One alternative they offered was $300 more (making my fare $2098) and they would give me a Verandah Cabin (book now price $1748) or $50 less than I have already paid for my obstructed view cabin.

I have spent since Jan.2015 til Mar. 1st 2016 89 days on HAL cruises and it apparently does not mean a thing to them.

Anyone want to defend HAL ?

 

I think the best defense of HAL is "The Parable of the Workers in the Vinyard" (Mathew 20, verses 1-16).

 

To refresh your memory, the owner hired three sets of workers at different times during the day. Workers hired at the beginning of the day complained that those hired last were paid the same as those hired first.

 

The owner replied to their complaints: 13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’

 

So are you just being "envious"?

[EDLOS]

I am pleased to see this blog is evolving into a more serious discussion of HAL and the cruses industry "Best Practices".

If this were a Harvard Case Study on Cruise Industry Best Practices and "Worst Practices", how do you all think it would play out.

On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the Best Mark, how would HAL and the Industry Score in your mind, Marketing, Pricing, Discounting, and Booking Practices and your Industry sense of fairness, honesty, truthfulness. and YOUR definition of Ethical Practices. There seems to be a wide diversity on the definition of Ethical.

I don't buy that if the entire Industry is doing it, it is now the benchmark for ethics !!!!

[sapper1]

I want to paint HAL in a very good light with regard to my recent experience with the company and what they consider good business practice.

 

This spring I was on the Westerdam for a 33 day cruise to Hawaii and the South Pacific. It was a very expensive cruise and a dream cruise for many.

 

After we left Hawaii, the weather deteriorated and it was rainy, windy and thoroughly dismal for days on end. We were forced to sail right by two islands as it was too dangerous to tender and when we docked at the third island, all tours were cancelled due to the weather.

 

Now in no possible stretch of the imagination is HAL responsible for compensating for missed ports due to weather so the possibility didn't even cross our minds.

 

However, after the third disappointment, a letter was circulated stating that everyone would receive a $100 OBC immediately, as well as 15% off the base price they had paid for the cruise toward a new cruise, if booked within a year.

Considering the price of that cruise, it was a considerable amount of compensation given as a goodwill gesture.

 

The OP is so intent on bashing HAL that I just had to add my very positive recent experience. BTW, the new discounted cruise is already booked. :)

[iancal]

How about the other side of the coin?

 

When HAL was knowingly selling cabins in certain areas of Veendam when they knew that the AC did not work in those cabins.

 

Or the front desk personnel on that ship at the time who glibly told those customers who complained that 'this is the first time we have heard about this problem'?

 

HAL is a great cruise line but it is far from perfect. It has flaws just like other cruise lines and other businesses.

Edited June 3, 2016 by iancal

[RocketMan275]

I am pleased to see this blog is evolving into a more serious discussion of HAL and the cruses industry "Best Practices".

If this were a Harvard Case Study on Cruise Industry Best Practices and "Worst Practices", how do you all think it would play out.

On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the Best Mark, how would HAL and the Industry Score in your mind, Marketing, Pricing, Discounting, and Booking Practices and your Industry sense of fairness, honesty, truthfulness. and YOUR definition of Ethical Practices. There seems to be a wide diversity on the definition of Ethical.

I don't buy that if the entire Industry is doing it, it is now the benchmark for ethics !!!!

 

Trying to change the subject?

[dakrewser]

I am pleased to see this blog is evolving into a more serious discussion of HAL and the cruses industry "Best Practices".

If this were a Harvard Case Study on Cruise Industry Best Practices and "Worst Practices", how do you all think it would play out.

On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the Best Mark, how would HAL and the Industry Score in your mind, Marketing, Pricing, Discounting, and Booking Practices and your Industry sense of fairness, honesty, truthfulness. and YOUR definition of Ethical Practices. There seems to be a wide diversity on the definition of Ethical.

I don't buy that if the entire Industry is doing it, it is now the benchmark for ethics !!!!

 

There's a wide diversity of opinion, but it boils down to you vs. everybody else.

 

And some folks are throwing in airlines and hotel chains as some sort of benchmark - but those programs are no different than the cruise lines' loyalty programs - each have a well laid-out schedule of perks and rewards. There are no surprises. Nor will the hotel or airline refund money to you if you discover someone else is paying a lower fare. Still, you might hope that if it's portrayed as an apples and oranges situation that some readers might be gullible enough to buy the argument.

[magandab]

I am pleased to see this blog is evolving into a more serious discussion of HAL and the cruses industry "Best Practices".

If this were a Harvard Case Study on Cruise Industry Best Practices and "Worst Practices", how do you all think it would play out.

On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the Best Mark, how would HAL and the Industry Score in your mind, Marketing, Pricing, Discounting, and Booking Practices and your Industry sense of fairness, honesty, truthfulness. and YOUR definition of Ethical Practices. There seems to be a wide diversity on the definition of Ethical.

I don't buy that if the entire Industry is doing it, it is now the benchmark for ethics !!!!

 

When did this become a blog and who is the author of the blog?

[SilvertoGold]

I want to paint HAL in a very good light with regard to my recent experience with the company and what they consider good business practice.

 

This spring I was on the Westerdam for a 33 day cruise to Hawaii and the South Pacific. It was a very expensive cruise and a dream cruise for many.

 

After we left Hawaii, the weather deteriorated and it was rainy, windy and thoroughly dismal for days on end. We were forced to sail right by two islands as it was too dangerous to tender and when we docked at the third island, all tours were cancelled due to the weather.

 

Now in no possible stretch of the imagination is HAL responsible for compensating for missed ports due to weather so the possibility didn't even cross our minds.

 

However, after the third disappointment, a letter was circulated stating that everyone would receive a $100 OBC immediately, as well as 15% off the base price they had paid for the cruise toward a new cruise, if booked within a year.

Considering the price of that cruise, it was a considerable amount of compensation given as a goodwill gesture.

 

The OP is so intent on bashing HAL that I just had to add my very positive recent experience. BTW, the new discounted cruise is already booked. :)

 

This is not that uncommon on HAL's longer cruises where weather impacts the cruise significantly. HAL need to nothing at all, but often does. And sometimes a lot. Smart business practice.

[alwaysfrantic]

Most major retail establishments, within a certain time window, allow you to bring your receipt back for a price adjustment. They usually fall within 30-90 days. It's quite common. Macys, Nordstroms, even places like Michaels will do it. Not everyone wants to take the time to bring back their receipt, so it's not a mad dash. I've maybe done it twice, since I'm that that concerned, but I know people who hawk pricing on goods and do it all the time.

 

And HAL does exactly this up to the date of final payment. After that, consider it Final Sale or a pair of used panties.....they aren't taking it back.

[alwaysfrantic]

Business Dictionary's definition on the internet.

It is my understanding most highly rated Universities are now making "Business Ethics " a required course.

I think this would make an excellent Case Study for them.

I believe the Cruise Industry will head the same way of Airlines. There will be additional charges for Boarding first, extra changes for more than one bag, fees for tendering ashore, extra towel and linen charges. The possibilities are endless. Remember when WATER was free !!

 

Water is free.....

[SilvertoGold]

How about the other side of the coin?

 

When HAL was knowingly selling cabins in certain areas of Veendam when they knew that the AC did not work in those cabins.

 

Or the front desk personnel on that ship at the time who glibly told those customers who complained that 'this is the first time we have heard about this problem'?

 

HAL is a great cruise line but it is far from perfect. It has flaws just like other cruise lines and other businesses.

 

I don't think any A/C problems are permanent. They do get fixed.

 

A ship has a problem in one area and you want HAL to take a lot of pax out of their cabins and reassign them to other cabins? That is sure to make a lot of pax unhappy, just for starters.

 

The timeline for repairs can be hours or days. How do you deal with that?

Empty the cabins in question, get them fixed and you sail part of the cruise with a bunch of empty cabins?

 

As a policy this does not help the bottom line and would serve only to raise everyone's pricing to cover those empty cabins.

 

If the Front Desk wants to tell me "this is the first we've heard about this problem", fine, they can say what they want. They can say,"we know and we're working on it" and still get called liars.

 

I agree: HAL is far from perfect, but there is too much idea on some customers' part that HAL is willfully obtuse, unethical or uncaring.

[TiogaCruiser]

Trying to change the subject?

 

Yep. It's a red herring.

[JanDom]

I now read the whole post and my feeling at the end :

 

If somebody don't get what they expexted or wanted to have there is a long post with the informations what went wrong or not the expected way even if the Cruise line did not do anything wrong...

If the cruise line is so nice and gives an Upgrade or an OBC it is only mentioned as a P.S. with one single sentence....

 

I would be thankful if the Cruiseline is Doing anything like this to me....

 

P.S. In Germany HAL is the only cruise line with the "best Price offer"

All other cruise Lines don't reduce the prices anymore. Even if it is before final payment !

[EDLOS]

Trying to change the subject?

 

No, in my mind, I started from the beginning discussing HAL's and Cruise Industry business practices, policies and ethics. I am still on these topics.

[RocketMan275]

No, in my mind, I started from the beginning discussing HAL's and Cruise Industry business practices, policies and ethics. I am still on these topics.

 

No, you did not. You started "from the beginning" complaining that HAL did not treat you in a special way because of your "89 days on HAL".

 

You also asked for a defense of HAL. I provided that and you've yet to respond. For your convenience, here it is again and I look forward to your response:

 

I think the best defense of HAL is "The Parable of the Workers in the Vinyard" (Mathew 20, verses 1-16).

 

To refresh your memory, the owner hired three sets of workers at different times during the day. Workers hired at the beginning of the day complained that those hired last were paid the same as those hired first.

 

The owner replied to their complaints: 13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’

 

So are you just being "envious"?

Edited June 4, 2016 by RocketMan275

[serendipity1499]

We are in the same boat, so to speak.. :eek: But our Final payment is in August.. The cabins we booked with our Friends last week went down more than 1/3 of the price we paid today..So we are going to cancel & start over again.. If we loose our cabins so be it.. Thank goodness it is not within final payment date, otherwise we would be out of luck..

 

I still can not find the reduction on-line, even at all the special sites which seem to get the reductions early.. Our Friends, who are going with us received a brochure today with a special unadvertised fare, which was $600 less than they paid & $400 less than we paid...

 

So we all decided to cancel & try to rebook at the lower fare, or cancel completely & pick another cruise, even if we have to go on another line.. Must wait till Monday to speak to our Travel Agent..

[JLC@SD]

I am pleased to see this blog is evolving into a more serious discussion of HAL and the cruses industry "Best Practices".

If this were a Harvard Case Study on Cruise Industry Best Practices and "Worst Practices", how do you all think it would play out.

On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the Best Mark, how would HAL and the Industry Score in your mind, Marketing, Pricing, Discounting, and Booking Practices and your Industry sense of fairness, honesty, truthfulness. and YOUR definition of Ethical Practices. There seems to be a wide diversity on the definition of Ethical.

I don't buy that if the entire Industry is doing it, it is now the benchmark for ethics !!!!

Here is a thought for the discussion.

 

What about the ethics of the consumer that enters a contract w/ HAL via an agreed price, accepted deposit and booking. Should there not be an ethical responsibility / duty to honor that contract.