Avalon - no compassion

[caviargal]

You continue to make this about Avalon, while in reality, it is all due to your decision not to insure.

 

Not sure about other lines, but AMA offers insurance that provides a voucher in the amount of the deposit/payment that, if the guest cancels, is kept as a future cruise credit that must be be used within two years.

 

I agree completely with Mark T:

 

"If you had simply posted the fact that they had decided not to do anything beyond enforce the terms you had agreed to and left it as a statement of fact alone you probably wouldn't have got anything much beyond sympathy comments.

 

The problem was, and is, that you seek to denigrate the company for failing to protect you from your own decision not to insure.

 

It is nice if someone lets you out of an obligation you failed to adequately cover, they are not being unreasonable if they don't.

 

Praise the Welsh tour organization by all means, but don't seek to make Avalon the villain for failing to protect you from your own choice. "

Edited June 9, 2016 by caviargal

[JVilleGal]

Nothing to do with compassion and everything about failure to protect your trip with travel insurance. I pay it faithfully to protect every trip and wonder why I pay $100's of dollars for this coverage when, all I really need to doing is complain loudly and get the Vendor to make an exception and cover me for free.

 

I think that's the bottom line, your situation is not special, unique or unusual. Life happens and extreme medical issues happen. Purchase coverage like everyone else and then you won't have to complain about anything.

 

Hope you are are doing better and will one day get to take your trip. The Avalon experience was great!

[4774Papa]

I agree with posters reminding the poster that there is no excuse for lack of planning.

 

However, the cruise was cancelled months before it was scheduled and the poster wanted to reschedule for another date with the same deposit. Most likely, Avalon had time to full up the ship. The posters still wanted to take the cruise on another date and spend a lot more doing that.

 

I think a smart policy for a company like Avalon would accommodate the poster. It is Avalon's call, but they should consider that resolution.

[RDC1]

Prior to the Internet you had companies more willing to make exceptions. Today if a company makes such a decision it gets spread to world. Thus companies need to stick to policy. Otherwise people would decide that they don't need insurance.

[Mark_T]

Decided my original post was not appropriate in this thread, but in short, as a policy, I don't think it would be a bad one to let people carry a deposit over to another year, but unless and until it is a policy they should stick to the one they have or things can spin out of control very quickly thanks to the internet....

Edited June 9, 2016 by Mark_T

[CPT Trips]

Prior to the Internet you had companies more willing to make exceptions. Today if a company makes such a decision it gets spread to world. Thus companies need to stick to policy. Otherwise people would decide that they don't need insurance.

 

Good point.

 

This comment is just my take. A product that gives you a voucher with time constraints and other restrictions isn't insurance. . . trip protection maybe, but not insurance if it doesn't cover my loss in cash.

[dolllover]

People denigrate Viking all the time here so I don't see a problem with calling out Avalon in this situation. I buy insurance all the time before every trip but for Avalon to double dip and not honor a future credit for another cruise is unfortunate due to the OP's circumstances. They have months to fill up the ship. Even airlines will let you rebook due to illness without buying insurance. You don't get your money back but can rebook with another flight at a later date.

[ikesyd]

Nothing to do with compassion and everything about failure to protect your trip with travel insurance. I pay it faithfully to protect every trip and wonder why I pay $100's of dollars for this coverage when, all I really need to doing is complain loudly and get the Vendor to make an exception and cover me for free.

 

I think that's the bottom line, your situation is not special, unique or unusual. Life happens and extreme medical issues happen. Purchase coverage like everyone else and then you won't have to complain about anything.

 

Hope you are are doing better and will one day get to take your trip. The Avalon experience was great!

 

Agree totally! As I mentioned in my earlier post we had to cancel 2 weeks before our trip due to my hubbies cancer diagnosis. We had taken out travel insurance when we paid our deposit over a year earlier. I would never consider not taking insurance if we don't wont to loose ANY of our payments. If I'm happy to loose the money I wouldn't take it.

 

I am finding it very frustrating now to find insurance companies here in Australia that will provide cover for hubbies pre existing condition(even though we are willing to pay a higher premium). The majority will not cover at all but I'm still searching. Insurance companies need to re think their policies for cancer beaters, they have endured months of harsh treatment & side effects. Now they have been given the all clear by Doctors and want to return to enjoying life fully they hit a hurdle that in some cases would prevent them from doing this. I have found one company for our upcoming trip to Canada & USA that will cost us nearly $3000. I have taken out protection insurance with our tour company that covers cancellation for any reason prior to departure, so I can continue my search for a bit longer. We are lucky that we are in a position to be able to pay the very high premium for our piece of mind and taking into account the overall cost of our holiday that we could loose if we don't, but for many people this would probably change their decision to do a trip or take the risk of not taking insurance like the original poster.

I wish the OP & his wife the best for their upcoming treatment journey, it can be very hard. The plans for a trip in the future can be a great deviation during treatment & something positive to look forward to.

Edited June 9, 2016 by ikesyd

[caviargal]

People denigrate Viking all the time here so I don't see a problem with calling out Avalon in this situation. I buy insurance all the time before every trip but for Avalon to double dip and not honor a future credit for another cruise is unfortunate due to the OP's circumstances. They have months to fill up the ship. Even airlines will let you rebook due to illness without buying insurance. You don't get your money back but can rebook with another flight at a later date.

 

Calling out Avalon for not bending the rules to make an exception is the issue here. Avalon is not at fault here. If one wants to protect their investment in case it is not possible to travel due to whatever circumstance, the answer is to buy insurance, not to expect a company to change their rules for you. This appears to be what most responding to this thread believe.

 

And I am not sure what airlines you book or what class of service you fly, but I do not agree nor is it my personal experience that airlines will give you a credit for future travel without insurance just because you get sick. Other than Southwest, I have not had that experience and even then, illness has nothing to do with it.

Edited June 10, 2016 by caviargal

[JVilleGal]

+1

 

 

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[garycarla]

Calling out Avalon for not bending the rules to make an exception is the issue here. Avalon is not at fault here. ....

 

 

On a side note. When a company does bend the rules, those that actually bought insurance help pay for it. The company has to eat that cost and passes it on to the rest of us in higher fares.

[CPT Trips]

According to OP, the cruise is a sellout. No loss to eat. Wonder if company is lowering fares due to extra revenue. :rolleyes:

[RDC1]

From a companies point of view the issue is risk management. They establish a policy and establish their fares based upon a number of calculations, including risk management. The calculations are not based upon an individual case, but on statistical analysis of the market as a whole. They also train around the policy and make sure that the staff is trained according to the policy.

 

Now even if they would not have lost money in this case. They would have created an exception to policy. They would have indicated to both their staff and their customers that the policy is not consistent. Then how do they tell the next customer, where they would lose money no when they have told this one yes. What happens when word spreads that they give exceptions. Their insurance revenue falls. They end up with either the staff making mistakes in communicating to customers about exceptions or approving them incorrectly. They damage their legal footing by giving customer A an exception, but not customer B. How many customers would feel that they were dumb by actually believing the policy and spending money on insurance when exceptions were given.

 

It is actually better customer service and creates a higher customer satisfaction by establishing policy, training staff in the policy, communicating that policy to the customers and enforcing the policy.

 

How many times on various boards have we seen where someone has advised someone else that if they don't like an answer from customer service to call again and see if the next person would give them a different answer. How much confusion and frustration does that create.

Edited June 11, 2016 by RDC1

[RDC1]

According to OP, the cruise is a sellout. No loss to eat. Wonder if company is lowering fares due to extra revenue. :rolleyes:

 

In a companies fare calculation such situations would already be calculated in. The pricing calculations would have estimates for the amount of revenue from customers that lose on deposits or fare payments. A company will track those statistics. If they removed those from their calculations then fares will go up.

 

So in a model you might have revenue X% deposits from cancellations, Y% partial payment cancellations, Z% full payment cancellations all built into the total revenue models and impacting overall fares. Especially if the company does not self insure and the refunds for insured customers comes from an outside insurance company.

 

Pricing models are based upon the market and customer data in mass, not individual cases.

[Shorex]

It is a common grouse from travelers who 1) do not purchase cruise/travel insurance, 2) cancel the cruise (or flight) (or overland journey) for whatever reason, 3) do not get a refund for their NON REFUNDABLE payments to whine that the (cruise line) (airline) unjustly sold their (cabin) (airline seat) to someone else. Funny isn't it, that those who purchase insurance and are made financially whole from that very insurance policy do not seem so upset?

 

I just priced out airline tickets for an upcoming trip on Alaska Airlines - $314 round trip economy for NON REFUNDABLE tickets, same flights in economy for REFUNDABLE tickets $1,146. Guess what? I am willing to assume the risk that I will complete the trip rather than pay extra for REFUNDABLE tickets or purchase trip insurance for the flight. And if disaster strikes and the trip must be cancelled - it's my financial loss. And good for Alaska Airlines if they fill that seat with someone else. That's good business.

 

Same for the cruise line. Everyone has the opportunity to purchase trip insurance. It's an informed risk decision to decline - if you lose the gamble and have to cancel, ya really think the cruise line should leave the cabin empty in your honor? How silly is that?

[RDC1]

It is a common grouse from travelers who 1) do not purchase cruise/travel insurance, 2) cancel the cruise (or flight) (or overland journey) for whatever reason, 3) do not get a refund for their NON REFUNDABLE payments to whine that the (cruise line) (airline) unjustly sold their (cabin) (airline seat) to someone else. Funny isn't it, that those who purchase insurance and are made financially whole from that very insurance policy do not seem so upset?

 

I just priced out airline tickets for an upcoming trip on Alaska Airlines - $314 round trip economy for NON REFUNDABLE tickets, same flights in economy for REFUNDABLE tickets $1,146. Guess what? I am willing to assume the risk that I will complete the trip rather than pay extra for REFUNDABLE tickets or purchase trip insurance for the flight. And if disaster strikes and the trip must be cancelled - it's my financial loss. And good for Alaska Airlines if they fill that seat with someone else. That's good business.

 

Same for the cruise line. Everyone has the opportunity to purchase trip insurance. It's an informed risk decision to decline - if you lose the gamble and have to cancel, ya really think the cruise line should leave the cabin empty in your honor? How silly is that?

 

With airlines will also sell insurance for nonrefundable tickets for a few dollars that will refund you money for various reasons such as illness. The fully refundable is more like cancel for any reason.

Edited June 11, 2016 by RDC1

[dolllover]

Calling out Avalon for not bending the rules to make an exception is the issue here. Avalon is not at fault here. If one wants to protect their investment in case it is not possible to travel due to whatever circumstance, the answer is to buy insurance, not to expect a company to change their rules for you. This appears to be what most responding to this thread believe.

 

And I am not sure what airlines you book or what class of service you fly, but I do not agree nor is it my personal experience that airlines will give you a credit for future travel without insurance just because you get sick. Other than Southwest, I have not had that experience and even then, illness has nothing to do with it.

 

It was Delta and it was in coach. Had to have surgery and got a credit for a future flight. I did not buy insurance. I'm not going to eat the loss without attempting to get a credit.That would be stupid. I buy insurance 99% of the time but the one time I didn't it was nice to get the credit.

[Squigmond]

Some of the posters in this thread would have a completely different take on this if the company was changed from Avalon to Viking. Raked over the coals comes to mind. If Viking sticks to their rules all heck breaks out.

[sharkster77]

Some of the posters in this thread would have a completely different take on this if the company was changed from Avalon to Viking. Raked over the coals comes to mind. If Viking sticks to their rules all heck breaks out.

 

If there was a way to "like" a post, I would click for this one--well said, Squigmond!

[JVilleGal]

Some of the posters in this thread would have a completely different take on this if the company was changed from Avalon to Viking. Raked over the coals comes to mind. If Viking sticks to their rules all heck breaks out.

 

 

No not at all, all Travelers need Travel Insurance and that is the bottom line!

Viking has issues of their own.

 

 

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[FLSteve11]

Some of the posters in this thread would have a completely different take on this if the company was changed from Avalon to Viking. Raked over the coals comes to mind. If Viking sticks to their rules all heck breaks out.

 

I would say the majority of people in here are on the side of sticking to the rules. So not sure where your complaint is coming from in this case.

[caviargal]

No not at all, all Travelers need Travel Insurance and that is the bottom line!

Viking has issues of their own.

 

I agree. There are many things I personally do not like about Viking but it would not matter to me what line this post was about. My opinion would be the same.

Edited June 11, 2016 by caviargal

[FLSteve11]

According to OP, the cruise is a sellout. No loss to eat. Wonder if company is lowering fares due to extra revenue. :rolleyes:

 

It doesn't matter. The problem with making exceptions, is you can no longer point at a policy and state "this is policy". Say they give an exception here. Word gets out, and some people decide why bother getting insurance if they'll give exceptions. What do you think happens when one of those people get sick and say they want their money back?

 

A) Avalon gives them an exception as well. So now basically you don't even have a policy. Avalon has basically "stated" that your non-refundable deposit is actually refundable if you claim you're sick. Which basically will be EVERY deposit since anytime someone needs to cancel, they'll say they're sick. No one buys insurance anymore, there is no need.

 

B) They deny them an exception. Well now Avalon has made it personal, and has a bigger PR issue here. Of course the second customer is going to say "Well you gave so-and-so an exception, why not me?" Which is a good point for them. They might make a customer annoyed because they deny an exception based on policy, they have that to point to and can rightfully do so. But now it's a personal issue that they gave one person one, but not the next one. That will get customers angrier, because now they feel it's about them. We won't even get into the crazies who will claim it is discrimination based on some factor that might be different (race, gender, age, religion, whatever they can come up with).

[Hydrokitty]

We have found that sometimes a well written letter to the CEO of a company yields some positive results. Example. We shipped a recently purchased Mercedes from CA to HI. In the process of the shipping some how the glove box was broken. Not a simple broken latch. Someone wanted in it and was not smart enough to realize that the button to open it was on the side. So they wrenched it open breaking it to the point the whole thing had to be replaced. With labor, about $850.00. The shipping agent denied our claim saying it was "pre-existing damage." Not true. So, with a little research we located the name and email of the CEO and sent a nice letter to him, complete with all the photos and other evidence. Next thing we know there's a settlement check in our mail box with the amount required to repair.

 

The moral of the story is...the person on the end of the phone is often a customer service agent that is given a set of authorized answers and actions and often doesn't have the authority to make exceptions. While they may have sympathy for your situation, they don't have the ability to fix it for you. CEO's don't like bad press for their companies and will often step in and take care of even the most seemingly minor issues.

 

It's always worth a try.

 

I hope that your wife is feeling better soon and will be up to a future trip.

 

I agree that a well written letter (sent certified mail, RRR) to CEO of company could bring about a different result. Especially when you point out that you are a previous customer and how very disappointed you are at being treated in such a callous fashion.

 

Best wishes to you and your wife and family for a positive outcome.

[JVilleGal]

Callous might be the wrong word. I would write the letter and "artfully" beg for an exception and acknowledge you understand it's a huge break from policy.

If you will never do business with them again or call them names like "callous" why should they even want to make an exception for you?

 

 

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