Avalon - no compassion

[Bodger]

It was good to see Avalon's response a few posts up, but if they are monitoring this they should know that stancar (the OP) hasn't been back and may not even be monitoring this thread. I hope they have another way of reaching out to him.

 

First, my condolences to anyone with health issues. And agreed that it would be nice if Avalon showed some flexibility as far as rescheduling.

 

But I find this post curious in that

1) the OP has not been back

2) the OP would not appear to be a regular poster as this was the first and only post,

3) the diagnosis was in December but the message was posted in June

4) I looked at the Avalon website and the insurance would have been $329 from what I see, so the OP would have been out of pocket ($171 x 2) $342.00.

 

I am not here to defend the cruise line, just some observations.

 

As Abe Lincoln purportedly said "You can't believe everything you read on the internet".

 

John

[CPT Trips]

Just wondering how Avalon can reach out to OP beyond what they already did. All they have is a screen name.

[Mark_T]

Just wondering how Avalon can reach out to OP beyond what they already did. All they have is a screen name.

 

They have more than enough detail to correctly identify the OP.

 

When you can access booking records, email logs and other notes it would probably take no more than a couple of mins at most to figure out who the OP actually is.

 

I used to be the official high level presence for a company on a forum for a very different market segment and when you have the right level of access to company records you only need to add in a very tiny amount of extra data from a complaint to uniquely identify people...

[pully8]

this a sad tale but a valuable lesson for others to read the terms/conditions, be guided by a competent travel agent and to have comprehensive travel insurance that will cover deposits paid 1 year in advance.

 

apart from that the poster has my best wishes. ovarian cancer is difficult to diagnose, it can take along time to be certain, many tests etc. uncertainty living through the process is distressing and difficult.

 

moving from looking forward and booking a river cruise, to being confronted with a life threatening diagnosis means many things need to be sorted and dealt with. some will have empathy with this having had a lived experience perhaps.

 

really wish they will get an opportunity to cruise and have something to look forward to.

[stancar]

Firstly, thank you for all the sympathetic posts and well wishes for my wife. Much appreciated.

 

Seems as though I have stirred up some concerns among some members as to why I did not arrange insurance. Valid point, easy in hindsight. Normally I rely on credit card cover, but this relies on payment by card , however in this instance a direct bank transfer was used.

 

I am aware of the Avalon post (saw it 1 hour after it was posted - Sunday afternoon our time). Thought I would not post again on this board until I had some positive news.

 

Contacted Avalon (Sydney) Monday afternoon but they had no knowledge of the current situation - ie, the Avalon US post. Suggested I call back the following day. Response this afternoon (Tuesday) is much the same - no real knowledge, other than standard rule is loss of deposit and I should have my TA contact Avalon.

 

So at this stage I have no real news, but will continue on and report as soon as there is some resolution (good or not so good).

[Got2Cruise]

Copy and paste the response from Avalon here on CC and email it to the address suggested in the post. Mention Cruise Critic. Good luck.

[Mark_T]

Just to keep expectations contained, the Avalon post just made sure that the OP had the best contact information, it didn't promise any resolution or change of heart and didn't come from the team that will handle the issue.

 

If the OP is fortunate enough to get a better outcome than they have so far then so be it, but I wouldn't use that as a reason not to get insurance as it is far from a certainty that any particular circumstances will result in a reversal of a decision or a different implementation of policy.

[Wendy The Wanderer]

It's interesting that the penalties are so different from ocean cruises, on some river lines at least.

 

This hit me, somewhat, when we cancelled our Tauck 14-day last winter. I admit I didn't really think about the cancellation penalties when we booked. At the time, there were problems getting insurance for Canadians, underwriters were refusing to write policies, so after consultation with our TA, we took the Tauck policy, which was $1150. When we did cancel some time later, our deposit was fully returned, but only *because* we had the insurance. Our friends were out their deposit--$800 pp. So really, we saved $450, but spend much more.

 

Next time I book a river cruise, I will scrutinize this situation carefully. And if I can, I will try to find an insurer who can insure the deposit *only*, then up the policy when final payment comes--that way I wouldn't have paid over $1K to ensure a $1600 purchase.

[Mark_T]

Next time I book a river cruise, I will scrutinize this situation carefully. And if I can, I will try to find an insurer who can insure the deposit *only*, then up the policy when final payment comes--that way I wouldn't have paid over $1K to ensure a $1600 purchase.

 

This is the other half of the problem, because of the relatively lower percentage of people in North America using travel insurance compared to Europe, the pool sharing the risks is smaller by value and the cost proportionately higher.

 

I shudder every time I see an insurance quote for the USA/Canada when compared to the pittance we pay in the UK for example.

[garycarla]

...-that way I wouldn't have paid over $1K to ensure a $1600 purchase.

 

If it would cost $1,000 to insure $1,600, the decision is very, very, very easy.

 

No insurance.

 

Insurance is nothing but a bet against the bank (insurance agency in this case).

 

Paying much more than 10% of the cost is really a bad bet.

[JVilleGal]

I guess I'm confused, I buy travel insure thru Thetripinsurancestore and pay based on what I have paid. So the first insurance payment is for my deposit of $500 per person. When I buy my air I add to that coverage, final pmt etc. so I do not cover my entire trip on day one, just what I have put out.

 

And when I cancelled an Avalon trip 3 yrs ago, my insurance was move to a trip a year later AND my $1000 in deposits with Avalon was move to my later booking also. I think there may have been a $50pp fee to do this.

 

I have never sailed without insurance purchased from an outside provider covering my entire trip door to door.

[stancar]

Well cruisers it looks like the news is "not so good".

 

Despite the encouraging post from Avalon US (post 20 on this topic), the response from Globus (Avalon) Aust is,

 

"The booking has now been cancelled and deposit has been retained on the booking so there is nothing further we are able to assist with in regards to a refund."

 

Note, the above is the final sentence of a longer email to our TA, received today after all information including Post 20 had been submitted.

 

It just makes you wonder why Avalon US posted on this site if the whole exercise was pointless. A cynical person might think it was simply window dressing, however I find it hard to believe a large reputable organisation would attempt such a subterfuge.

 

So, the decision is in, we have had our hopes raised then dashed and will move on. Personal circumstances have made us realise what is important in the grand scheme of things. I must say however, I would love to be in a social situation with any Avalon representative and be able to explain what these things represent when your life is already filled with stress.

 

Last point. Suspect Avalon will not be featuring on my Christmas card list and I can't imagine using them again, let alone providing any recommendation to anyone who might be interested in travel.

 

PS Thanks again to all posters for their well wishes.

[Mark_T]

As per my post above, I never considered the Avalon USA post to be encouraging, they merely made sure you had the correct direct contact information, so no, I don't think it was window dressing or a subterfuge.

 

For the rest, well, no point in repeating too much of what has already been said. You accepted a risk by not insuring, the gamble didn't pay off and you blame the company instead of your decision not to insure.

 

I would hope when you tell others about this you tell them the whole story without omitting the part your choices played in the outcome...

 

For now though, my thoughts remain with you and your wife in the days ahead.

[caviargal]

As per my post above, I never considered the Avalon USA post to be encouraging, they merely made sure you had the correct direct contact information, so no, I don't think it was window dressing or a subterfuge.

 

For the rest, well, no point in repeating too much of what has already been said. You accepted a risk by not insuring, the gamble didn't pay off and you blame the company instead of your decision not to insure.

 

I would hope when you tell others about this you tell them the whole story without omitting the part your choices played in the outcome...

 

For now though, my thoughts remain with you and your wife in the days ahead.

 

I wish CC had a "LIKE" button.

[KathyK13]

I wish CC had a "LIKE" button.

Second that!

[Wendy The Wanderer]

I guess I'm confused, I buy travel insure thru Thetripinsurancestore and pay based on what I have paid. So the first insurance payment is for my deposit of $500 per person. When I buy my air I add to that coverage, final pmt etc. so I do not cover my entire trip on day one, just what I have put out.

 

And when I cancelled an Avalon trip 3 yrs ago, my insurance was move to a trip a year later AND my $1000 in deposits with Avalon was move to my later booking also. I think there may have been a $50pp fee to do this.

 

I have never sailed without insurance purchased from an outside provider covering my entire trip door to door.

 

That was my point, that's what I *should* have done. Note that I cancelled this cruise because I changed my mind, not because I was forced to, so my out of pocket cost was discretionary. At the time of booking, the Tauck insurance, which covered pre-existing conditions, was my only insurance choice (being Canadian), and I had no intention of cancelling at a whim, so the insurance seemed like a good investment.

 

As I said, next time I'll try to find an insurer like yours, who will do a graduated premium. But again, pre-existing condition coverage gets more important as you get older, and it's important to us.

 

Glad to hear you were able to move an Avalon booking for a small fee--next time I book a river cruise, I will look very closely at these policies. Not sure it will be Avalon after everything I've heard, and frankly, I doubt it will be Tauck. But again, "live and learn".

[Bodger]

While it is understandable, it is unfortunate that Avalon felt they had to stick to the contract. A little compassion would have gone a long way.

 

As the owner of a small business, I always felt that putting myself in the customers position and coming up with an equitable solution would be best. While taking a hit in the short term, it would pay off in the long term.

 

Maybe that is why I have a small business and Avalon has a much larger one. At least I sleep well.

 

Sorry the outcome was not better.

 

John

[ExCapt]

As per my post above, I never considered the Avalon USA post to be encouraging, they merely made sure you had the correct direct contact information, so no, I don't think it was window dressing or a subterfuge.

 

For the rest, well, no point in repeating too much of what has already been said. You accepted a risk by not insuring, the gamble didn't pay off and you blame the company instead of your decision not to insure.

 

I would hope when you tell others about this you tell them the whole story without omitting the part your choices played in the outcome...

 

For now though, my thoughts remain with you and your wife in the days ahead.

 

Couldn't have said it better!!!

[Barrheadlass]

Second that!

 

And I third.

[FLSteve11]

It's interesting that the penalties are so different from ocean cruises, on some river lines at least.

 

This hit me, somewhat, when we cancelled our Tauck 14-day last winter. I admit I didn't really think about the cancellation penalties when we booked. At the time, there were problems getting insurance for Canadians, underwriters were refusing to write policies, so after consultation with our TA, we took the Tauck policy, which was $1150. When we did cancel some time later, our deposit was fully returned, but only *because* we had the insurance. Our friends were out their deposit--$800 pp. So really, we saved $450, but spend much more.

 

Next time I book a river cruise, I will scrutinize this situation carefully. And if I can, I will try to find an insurer who can insure the deposit *only*, then up the policy when final payment comes--that way I wouldn't have paid over $1K to ensure a $1600 purchase.

 

If you think about it, it has to be that way for river cruises vs ocean cruises. It isn't because someone may get sick, or have something happen, and need to cancel the cruise.

 

In ocean cruises, there are plenty of people who book a cabin and change their mind. There are a number of people who book multiple cruises, and then decide as it gets closer which one they want. There are people who book the same cruise, but for 3 weeks in a row, and then just keep whichever works best for their schedule (or has had the price drop the most). There are people who book multiple cabins on the same ship (an inside, an ocean view, a balcony) and then pick which they like best as it gets to final payment date (or again, has had a price drop). The list goes on. With no penalty and full refund of deposit, it's no big deal to them. With an ocean cruise, if this is 25 cabins out of 1500, it's no big deal. With a river cruise that's half the ship! They would never be able to fill those cabins with months to go. Especially with Americans, who already have to deal with the high airline prices to fly to Europe (there are no "last minute deals" with international airfare, that's for sure).

 

So in general, it's not to "keep your money" in case you can't make it. It's to keep people from booking cabins they may not really want to use. And if they start giving refunds for sob stories, everyone would just have a sob story to tell.

[pully8]

really interesting reading peoples opinions about this matter. I agree that both parties to a contract have made a decision and have obligations to commit to the terms/conditions.

however there are always things that do not go to plan and problems can arise from both sides. usually a solution can be found, for example when the cruise becomes a bus trip, compensation is offered.

 

in this case it would appear there was no consideration of compassionate grounds for transfer to a new date of travel. none.

 

we always have travel insurance in place when we book but never book/pay a year ahead. this is a valuable lesson for all.

[pully8]

Bodger I like your comments and share your values. by all means stick to the contract but there are always ways to act ethically and go beyond basic obligations. we are delighted when we see people/businesses that perform in that way. unexpected and unnecessary but can mean so much. happy days its a tough world.

[garycarla]

I too feel for the poster.

 

But, it appears what some folks are saying is:

 

You should buy insurance for your cruise, but if you decide not to spend the money, the company should have compassion and refund your money anyways.

 

So, insurance payment is not required. You will get our money back anyways.

[stancar]

Just a quick comment on some of the matters raised during this debate.

 

Have already declared mea culpa, however our main request to Avalon was not to obtain a refund, rather a credit against travel in 1 or 2 years. Little loss to Avalon - our planned cruise is now fully booked (ie our cabin has been sold). Further, if we are unable to travel within the nominated time, Avalon experiences no cost and we have no reason to complain or feel aggrieved.

 

Our experience with another group. We had also booked a back roads tour of Wales, and paid full amount ($5,800). Upon explanation of our situation by our TA (same explanation as Avalon), the group elected to hold $300 per person against a future booking and refund the balance.

 

Identical situation, two totally different outcomes. Regardless of the "black letter" law/contract conditions, which organisation acted with true understanding and compassion?

[Mark_T]

If you had simply posted the fact that they had decided not to do anything beyond enforce the terms you had agreed to and left it as a statement of fact alone you probably wouldn't have got anything much beyond sympathy comments.

 

The problem was, and is, that you seek to denigrate the company for failing to protect you from your own decision not to insure.

 

It is nice if someone lets you out of an obligation you failed to adequately cover, they are not being unreasonable if they don't.

 

Praise the Welsh tour organization by all means, but don't seek to make Avalon the villain for failing to protect you from your own choice.