Update on Koningsdam Library

[OlsSalt]

2 minutes ago, TonyC1952 said:

Yes, the excuse about losing $2,000,000 in books is completely bogus. HAL is simply looking to generate more $ in the former library spaces on their ships. For some of us, we'd like to sit in a QUIET space and read a physical book. That experience is available on the Rotterdam and the Amsterdam. Not so much on the Koningsdam-

 

 

Libraries and book sellers unload excess inventory all the time - either for free or fire sale prices. Plus it is often an older book that I meant to read, but had not, that has often given me the most pleasure - obscure books, general interest books - those are the ones recycling in the used book market and can remain on the HAL library shelves.

 

Take one, leave one is a perfectly sound onboard policy too.  Metallic markets can be put into these books which can be scanned in outgoing luggage (and warned) if  this is such a serious problem. It is insulting Ashford looked us in the eye and even offered this bogus excuse. 

 

More likely those new blue and white Delft bread plates are going off the ships in passengers luggage than passengers "stealing" books.

[colonialinnkeeper]

9 minutes ago, TonyC1952 said:

Yes, the excuse about losing $2,000,000 in books is completely bogus. HAL is simply looking to generate more $ in the former library spaces on their ships. For some of us, we'd like to sit in a QUIET space and read a physical book. That experience is available on the Rotterdam and the Amsterdam. Not so much on the Koningsdam-

 

HAL has had expansive (relative to the ones on newer ships) libraries that have always been well used since we started cruising in 1990.  Does this mean that HAL has been absorbing this kind of loss every year or is it just in the last couple of years that people have been stealing all these books?  I think you are right and it comes down to making more money and the heck with people who have used, loved and valued this amenity.

[TonyC1952]

One of the beauties of a library is your ability to scan the shelves and find something interesting; browsing for books to read is pleasurable, and one of the things I previously enjoyed on HAL ships. We'll chose to avoid the Koningsdam and New Statendam because of their size and priorities. We like smaller ships!

 

[OlsSalt]

20 minutes ago, TonyC1952 said:

One of the beauties of a library is your ability to scan the shelves and find something interesting; browsing for books to read is pleasurable, and one of the things I previously enjoyed on HAL ships. We'll chose to avoid the Koningsdam and New Statendam because of their size and priorities. We like smaller ships!

 

 

We cancelled a long cruise on the Westedam when I saw what had become of its already abbreviated library, even though it was cheaper than a similar offering on the Maasdam. We instead book the Maasdam just to get the traditional library space on these longer at-sea voyages. It is value-added for us. 

[frankc98376]

As long as people demand cheaper and cheaper cruises the cruise lines must maximize revenue in public spaces.  Retails stores set a dollar figure for income from every square foot.  Cruise lines are no different- they need to make up for the $299 fares somewhere.  Overhead is huge on a ship- somewhere that overhead needs to be covered.

 

I'm sure the "ultra premium" lines will continue to have libraries.  My guess is that at some point the large cruise lines will offer e-readers that include the ability to download books.  One good thing there is e-readers can be sanitized.

The face of cruising is changing quickly- only the bottom line will show that changes are accepted. 

[OlsSalt]

6 minutes ago, frankc98376 said:

As long as people demand cheaper and cheaper cruises the cruise lines must maximize revenue in public spaces.  Retails stores set a dollar figure for income from every square foot.  Cruise lines are no different- they need to make up for the $299 fares somewhere.  Overhead is huge on a ship- somewhere that overhead needs to be covered.

 

I'm sure the "ultra premium" lines will continue to have libraries.  My guess is that at some point the large cruise lines will offer e-readers that include the ability to download books.  One good thing there is e-readers can be sanitized.

The face of cruising is changing quickly- only the bottom line will show that changes are accepted. 

 

Scolding customers rarely works. Providing desired customer service does work.There is a marketable midpoint between cheap, cheap, cheap and premium luxury. Who knew. You sound beleaguered.

Edited January 16, 2019 by OlsSalt

[cruisemom42]

11 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

 

We cancelled a long cruise on the Westedam when I saw what had become of its already abbreviated library, even though it was cheaper than a similar offering on the Maasdam. We instead book the Maasdam just to get the traditional library space on these longer at-sea voyages. It is value-added for us. 

 

I'm sure HAL is looking at many data points in their decision making. While having a library may be a 'make or break' deal for some, I suspect it will not be for many. I would never cancel a cruise solely because of the lack of a library -- I bring my own library with me when I travel, in the form of my Kindle. 

 

The ability to bring all sorts of books with me (and at virtually no added weight) and not be at the mercy of the choices of others is delightful -- and liberating. I can and do have extensive references at my fingertips -- not only on board the ship but anywhere I go. If I want to pull up a particular section of Marguerite Yourcenar's haunting description of Hadrian's villa while I am actually AT the villa, and read it, I can. I still fondly remember my tour guide in Tunisia borrowing my Kindle to read Livy's description of the Battle of Zama (between Carthage and Rome) to the group as we approached the site, about how "(t)he two most famous generals, the two most powerful armies of the two richest nations upon earth, came to do battle, destined either to double or destroy the countless battle honours they had previously won."  

 

Sure, it's nice to browse a library for titles to read. But I can do that at home in my local library (or more likely, online). And it's certainly not going to make or break a great itinerary for me. 

[Silverback969]

My wife and I were on Koningsdam in December 2018; library was, essentially, non-existent.  You could probably have stolen the entire inventory of the library in the space of one carry-on--according to Ashford, this would probably not have been missed.  We were on the first cruise out of dry-dock, and there were all manner of issues.  The in-room electronics were nice, but that's an update that I would have traded for the conventional library.  I've bought and read e-books, but I genuinely prefer the aesthetics of a physical book.  My wife is something of a troglodyte when it comes to this kind of consumer electronics, and I'm not sure if she'll ever read an e-book.

 

The previous comments about EVERYTHING being turned into a profit center are absolutely on-target.  We're pretty much hard-core HAL cruisers who will probably have to be driven out of the fleet.  Current "leadership" is doing a pretty good job of alienating a core group of clientele with upgrades that are targeted at hi-jacking Carnival's cruiser demographics.

[OlsSalt]

The quiet, dedicated library space matters as much as the book selection. That is value-added for us. And we pay for it. No one comes into the Maadam library with a microphone,  running a trivia contest.  Or lining up the chairs to sell New Age hokum. Yet. 

Edited January 16, 2019 by OlsSalt

[cruisemom42]

1 minute ago, OlsSalt said:

The quiet, dedicated library space matters as much as the book selection. That is value-added for us. And we pay for it.

Are library spaces the only quiet spaces aboard ship? I haven't found that to be the case.

 

Personally, if I am reading aboard ship I like to be somewhere with an expansive view. Preferred location on a covered outside deck in a comfortable deck chair. But any comfortable and relatively quiet place will do. I don't need library-level quiet.

[Rlandrigan]

I’m giving the Nieuw Statendam a try, as I think she’ll have more kids aboard during spring break than other HAL ships, but yah, I’m annoyed at the lack of a library. The Sky Princes cruising at the same time doesn’t have one either, but if I find a comparable ship that does in the same time frame? Might be enough to turn my head. I wanna get on a big boat and dress up, read random stuff, eat when I want, and not be on pager duty- taking away options in favor of yet another specialty bar/cafe/etc pushes me to other lines...

[OlsSalt]

12 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

Are library spaces the only quiet spaces aboard ship? I haven't found that to be the case.

 

Personally, if I am reading aboard ship I like to be somewhere with an expansive view. Preferred location on a covered outside deck in a comfortable deck chair. But any comfortable and relatively quiet place will do. I don't need library-level quiet.

 

When was the last time you were on a HAL ship - could find very little "quiet space" on the last Eurodam - aka the Noisydam. Nothing wrong with expecting dedicated indoor quiet reading spaces. 

[frankc98376]

32 minutes ago, Silverback969 said:

My wife and I were on Koningsdam in December 2018; library was, essentially, non-existent.  You could probably have stolen the entire inventory of the library in the space of one carry-on--according to Ashford, this would probably not have been missed.  We were on the first cruise out of dry-dock, and there were all manner of issues.  The in-room electronics were nice, but that's an update that I would have traded for the conventional library.  I've bought and read e-books, but I genuinely prefer the aesthetics of a physical book.  My wife is something of a troglodyte when it comes to this kind of consumer electronics, and I'm not sure if she'll ever read an e-book.

 

The previous comments about EVERYTHING being turned into a profit center are absolutely on-target.  We're pretty much hard-core HAL cruisers who will probably have to be driven out of the fleet.  Current "leadership" is doing a pretty good job of alienating a core group of clientele with upgrades that are targeted at hi-jacking Carnival's cruiser demographics.

There is huge group of Carnival cruisers that are "out growing" the Fun Ships and want a bit quieter cruise at a great price.  It appears that this is the group that HAL is reaching out to along with the next generation of soon to or just retired.  A lot of this group is coming from the "wired" generation that wears jeans, t-shirts. shorts, and flip flops to work. I know that everyone I work with puts connectivity at the top of their list when researching vacations.

[Silverback969]

1 minute ago, frankc98376 said:

There is huge group of Carnival cruisers that are "out growing" the Fun Ships and want a bit quieter cruise at a great price.  It appears that this is the group that HAL is reaching out to along with the next generation of soon to or just retired.  A lot of this group is coming from the "wired" generation that wears jeans, t-shirts. shorts, and flip flops to work. I know that everyone I work with puts connectivity at the top of their list when researching vacations.

Thanks for adding your perspective.  It makes sense that this would be happening, and I'll embrace the "Carnival refugees, as long as they don't hi-jack the elevators and run sprints up and down the hallways. 😁 I guess the only point I really want to make is that HAL, in their attempt to hi-jack the Carnival--or whichever--clientele, they're alienating an existing demographic who still bring money with us when we cruise.

[cruisemom42]

39 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

 

When was the last time you were on a HAL ship - could find very little "quiet space" on the last Eurodam - aka the Noisydam. Nothing wrong with expecting dedicated indoor quiet reading spaces. 

 

Full disclosure, I have not sailed on any HAL ship larger or newer than the Vista class. I don't like the big'uns.

 

I am not suggesting that having such spaces isn't desirable -- but I have not had any problem finding spaces quiet enough for my needs on any ship, include Regal Princess, which is a pretty noisy ship, and those spots haven't been in the library. 

 

At any rate, I have a lot of traveling and cruising still to do and I would not want to limit/narrow my choices to such an extent, given that libraries are going to be increasingly rare. Just not something that's high up on my 'that is a deal killer' list....

[OlsSalt]

4 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Full disclosure, I have not sailed on any HAL ship larger or newer than the Vista class. I don't like the big'uns.

 

I am not suggesting that having such spaces isn't desirable -- but I have not had any problem finding spaces quiet enough for my needs on any ship, include Regal Princess, which is a pretty noisy ship, and those spots haven't been in the library. 

 

At any rate, I have a lot of traveling and cruising still to do and I would not want to limit/narrow my choices to such an extent, given that libraries are going to be increasingly rare. Just not something that's high up on my 'that is a deal killer' list....

 

When the choice is offered, the lack of a library becomes a deal killer for us. 

[colonialinnkeeper]

4 hours ago, OlsSalt said:

"The quiet, dedicated library space matters as much as the book selection..."

Spot on.  It is unlike anything else on the whole ship.

[Crew News]

With the exception of trivia events, the Konigsdam Crow's Nest is a very quiet place to read, just bring your own reading material.

[tommy]

On 6/17/2016 at 6:40 PM, colonialinnkeeper said:

First reports were that the library was not well stocked with materials. Could recent cruisers report on the library as it is now? Thanks. Lauri

We just got off books are very limited,they are in the observatory.

[tommy]

On 6/17/2016 at 6:40 PM, colonialinnkeeper said:

First reports were that the library was not well stocked with materials. Could recent cruisers report on the library as it is now? Thanks. Lauri

Still books were limited

[Little Toot2]

Just disembarked on February 13th and while I agree that the Crow's Nest is a lovely place to curl up with a good book, HAL offers a very limited number of reading materials when sailing on the Koningsdam.  While they seems to have made provisions for the smokers, drinkers, and gamblers on board, HAL appears to have ignored the intellectuals.  Bring back the libraries, please, or we will find other cruise lines which will accommodate us!

[frankc98376]

If they brought back libraries they would need a person to manage the books to prevent theft.  If all books are returned there would be no revenue to justify the position.  Perhaps they could charge $5 to $10 per book per cruise to pay a librarian.

 

People want $299 and $399 fares for 7 nights.  Onboard revenue nees to make up the rest of the costs to run the ship.  I predict that the ultra premium brands with high fares will be the last ships to have full libraries. Perhaps Cunard but destinations are limited and small fleet.

 

I'm guessing that at some time ships will wave tablets available for rent that include a library of books available to read.  I can see them partnering with B&N or Amazon.

 

Librarians have gone the same way as the huge cruise staff, horse racing, pool parties, deck BBQ's, etc. 

[RuthC]

7 minutes ago, frankc98376 said:

Librarians have gone the same way as the huge cruise staff, horse racing, pool parties, deck BBQ's, etc. 

The daytime fun stuff.

[cruisemom42]

54 minutes ago, Little Toot2 said:

Just disembarked on February 13th and while I agree that the Crow's Nest is a lovely place to curl up with a good book, HAL offers a very limited number of reading materials when sailing on the Koningsdam.  While they seems to have made provisions for the smokers, drinkers, and gamblers on board, HAL appears to have ignored the intellectuals.  Bring back the libraries, please, or we will find other cruise lines which will accommodate us!

 

Made provisions?  They are not providing free cigarettes/cigars, or free drinks, or free money in the casino.... so why should they provide free books?

 

It actually seems, by your own report, that they have done for readers the same as they have done for the other groups mentioned -- they have provided a space for reading (as also a space for smoking, for gambling, and for drinking).  

 

Maybe HAL should charge a library usage fee, like a spa fee. If you want access for the length of your cruise, there is a set fee to be paid...

[OlsSalt]

1 hour ago, frankc98376 said:

If they brought back libraries they would need a person to manage the books to prevent theft.  If all books are returned there would be no revenue to justify the position.  Perhaps they could charge $5 to $10 per book per cruise to pay a librarian.

 

People want $299 and $399 fares for 7 nights.  Onboard revenue nees to make up the rest of the costs to run the ship.  I predict that the ultra premium brands with high fares will be the last ships to have full libraries. Perhaps Cunard but destinations are limited and small fleet.

 

I'm guessing that at some time ships will wave tablets available for rent that include a library of books available to read.  I can see them partnering with B&N or Amazon.

 

Librarians have gone the same way as the huge cruise staff, horse racing, pool parties, deck BBQ's, etc. 

 

On some cruise lines .....but no reason this is the case for all cruise lines. HAL was known for its wonderful library spaces and inventories. No competition on any other cruise line - celebrate what made you unique HAL instead of chasing the lowest common denominator.  The "price" for allegedly stolen books  sounds like a smokescreen. That can be easily mitigated.