Update on Koningsdam Library

[EDLOS]

I am a Kindle carrier, so it's not about the books, but the quiet ambiance, a comfortable chair that I am missing. Sitting in some bar chair in a busy area doesn't hack it. Nor does elbow to elbow in pool area chaise lounge chairs do it either. My second area for reading is the Prominade Deck Oops !

that's gone too on K'Dam...... Oh yes !, in November did a TA on NCL Star, lovely quiet, well stocked library!!!!!!

[bobpell]

During the Kdam's Trans Atlantic last Oct. Carson the CD in a Q&A advised Hal is losing thousands of dollars on torn or misplaced books and they will not be filling the 8 ft. by 8 ft "library" on the ship.

Lots of readers were milling around looking for dropped off books. Those books were snatched up with in minutes of being put down

If suitcase weight is below limits bring a few books and watch them disappear

Bob

[EDLOS]

I get it from HAL's perspective, if it is not a Profit generating area or activity, get rid of it. i.e. Library, Prominade Deck, Enrichment speakers, Putting, Bean Bag, Horse Racing games, entertainment, etc.,etc.

For the rest of the list, see post on "what you miss most on HAL ships !!" It is amazing to look back 5 years ago compared with today and see what has been eliminated.

[Sea girl 23]

I get it from HAL's perspective, if it is not a Profit generating area or activity, get rid of it. i.e. Library, Prominade Deck, Enrichment speakers, Putting, Bean Bag, Horse Racing games, entertainment, etc.,etc.

For the rest of the list, see post on "what you miss most on HAL ships !!" It is amazing to look back 5 years ago compared with today and see what has been eliminated.

 

Said this before but the people complaining about the library loudest are the same several people,making them seem like they are a majority.

 

Sorry, but I don't see a lack of library as a deal breaker. I always bring a book(or two or more depending) with me.

[stratixman]

I am a real book lover, but I far prefer taking my Kindle Fire tablet loaded with not only books but also games and films when I travel. A kindle loaded with such can eliminate a lot of bulk and poundage that I use to have to cart around on trips.

 

These days, especially with the tech advantages, libraries on a cruise ship strike me as inefficient and uneconomic uses of space. Plain simple, there is no way a cruise ship library could ever compete with the selection of desired reading material I can load onto my Kindle. So, loss of the actual "library" with its physical book collection on various ships doesn't upset me in the least. However, I do think that losing quiet, lounge space where one might plant themselves out of the sun and away from their cabin to enjoy reading or quiet socialization time is another matter. The Crow's Nest used to provide just such a space. Now it seems that with the ship refurbs HAL is undertaking that the traditional Crow's Nest ambiance is is being supplanted with other functions. Good or bad? I will have to wait to pass judgement until after my upcoming Westerdam cruise.

[EDLOS]

I am a real book lover, but I far prefer taking my Kindle Fire tablet loaded with not only books but also games and films when I travel. A kindle loaded with such can eliminate a lot of bulk and poundage that I use to have to cart around on trips.

 

These days, especially with the tech advantages, libraries on a cruise ship strike me as inefficient and uneconomic uses of space. Plain simple, there is no way a cruise ship library could ever compete with the selection of desired reading material I can load onto my Kindle. So, loss of the actual "library" with its physical book collection on various ships doesn't upset me in the least. However, I do think that losing quiet, lounge space where one might plant themselves out of the sun and away from their cabin to enjoy reading or quiet socialization time is another matter. The Crow's Nest used to provide just such a space. Now it seems that with the ship refurbs HAL is undertaking that the traditional Crow's Nest ambiance is is being supplanted with other functions. Good or bad? I will have to wait to pass judgement until after my upcoming Westerdam cruise.

With me, it is not about the books as on a TA, I will have a dozen on my Kindle.....you are right about the Crow's Nest not as it used to be. as well as no Library and Prominade quiet places. Those of you who defend HAL's to the death these cutbacks as positive steps will now say " go sit in your cabin " if you want quiet !

[frankc98376]

We were told on a recent cruise that since Librarians have gone HAL has lost close to 2/3 of their library books. It's really a catch 22- can't afford a Librarian with $299 fares and without one the books disappear. People really want rock bottom fares and non-revenue generating positions are the first to go in cutbacks.

 

I haven't gone near the books since being on code red for about 10 days on a cruise. A woman told me the library books she picked up before she got sick got her through the GI illness.

 

I just read a few days ago that "experts" believe Barnes & Noble is on the "death watch" in 2018 along with Penneys, Sears, and several others. Our local library is in a constant struggle for funding and likely will need to close branches just to stay open.

 

We are among those that bring a laptop and tablet loaded with books, movies, and games. I suggested that HAL partner with Amazon and for a fee have Amazon Tablets available (easy to sanitize) and include a library of Amazon books on board included in the fee. If people don't return the Tablet charge them for it and if the books reside on the ship's computers they won't have access after disembarking.

[LocoLoco1]

Times HAVE changed. Libraries per se are done. As in 'GOOGLED/KINDLE'd' out of existence. I'm not happy about it. Frankly, the reason is because it's 'Space in which something can now be $$Sold$$'. Finding a quiet place to lounge is rare, unless you wanna be $$Sold$$ a private Veranda. Or a Cockail. Or a specialty Coffee. Or a Spa Moment or Internet by-the-minute. Party ambiance seekers have long since went elsewhere; but where now for the 'Book People'?? I dunno.

[donaldsc]

We have been on 28-day cruises with a good library. It was not a case of "bare offerings" of books. It was a case of being able to explore different authors and different titles without having to first buy the book and download it to an e-book. This is what a library is all about - exploration.

 

You do not have to buy books to read them on a Kindle. Most public libraries have an e-library set of books. I usually browse the e-library and check out a hundred or so books including ones that I know that I will read, others that I think might be interesting and even some that I have never heard of but have interesting titles or subjects. I know that I will not read many of them but who knows which ones might be interesting.

 

The only problem is that our library only allows a 21 day checkout. I handle that by downloading new books during my longer cruises when I can get internet access.

 

DON

[*Miss G*]

I get it from HAL's perspective, if it is not a Profit generating area or activity, get rid of it. i.e. Library, Prominade Deck, Enrichment speakers, Putting, Bean Bag, Horse Racing games, entertainment, etc.,etc.

For the rest of the list, see post on "what you miss most on HAL ships !!" It is amazing to look back 5 years ago compared with today and see what has been eliminated.

 

The promenade deck isn't revenue-generating. The change was due to regulations. But you bring to mind an interesting, related, point. While the activities you mention aren't revenue-generating, I believe I read where HAL will be enhancing their excursions on unique itineraries. Aren't they outfitting some ships to fit zodiacs? Of course, they still have the enrichment speakers on the TA's and certain itineraries where they bring them onboard (Alaska, Antarctica) so that certainly hasn't been eliminated. All of that is much more interesting to me than putting, bean bags, and horse racing. In fact, I would probably avoid ships with those activities. I'd be waiting to hit an iceberg.

[albingirl]

We sailed the 49 day Atlantic Adventure this past fall, and though the Veendam had a full library, most of the books were older and there were few current selections. I brought my kindle so that I could be sure of reading material that I would like. I, too, always loved the libraries on HAL, but it seems that they are fading away, unfortunately. I have many friends who prefer a paper book but I don't care one way or another.

[cruisemom42]

The promenade deck isn't revenue-generating. The change was due to regulations. But you bring to mind an interesting, related, point. While the activities you mention aren't revenue-generating, I believe I read where HAL will be enhancing their excursions on unique itineraries. Aren't they outfitting some ships to fit zodiacs? Of course, they still have the enrichment speakers on the TA's and certain itineraries where they bring them onboard (Alaska, Antarctica) so that certainly hasn't been eliminated. All of that is much more interesting to me than putting, bean bags, and horse racing. In fact, I would probably avoid ships with those activities. I'd be waiting to hit an iceberg.

 

It has been pretty convincingly argued (at least for me) that the changes on the promenade deck are not due to regulations, as other ships built near the same time or after (e.g., Viking Ocean's fleet) have solved the problem without eliminating similar area. See for example: https://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2450797&highlight=lifeboats+promenade+Viking (especially the two links cited in response #5).

 

Also, regarding enrichment speakers, HAL announced last year at some point that only cruises of more than 14 days will have enrichment speakers. I assume some special itineraries are excluded, but as one of the poor unwashed masses unable to take a cruise of longer than 14 days (due to requirements of my job), it does not make me happy at all that HAL thinks we are not worthy of enrichment.

[frankc98376]

I believe the days of wide open promenades lined with teak deck chairs on mainstream lines is becoming a thing of the past. I see that NCL and MSC are putting in versions of a promenade however with bars and restaurants.

 

Shoreside retailers place a revenue requirement on every square foot of floor space- I see the same happening on the mainstream lines.

[colonialinnkeeper]

So hoped that this would change but HAL doesn't seem to be hearing the library lovers. It isn't just the books but also the kind of space it is--quiet, comfortable, books, periodicals, a wondeful place to read, do a puzzle. If every space has to have a dollar value then soon we will be paying for shows, lounges around the pool, seating on decks, hot tubs, cooking demonstrations, movies on board, etc. Many of us hope that HAL will reconsider this avenue and return library space as a library with books, quiet seating (not on the side of an open space that is seldom quiet), etc.

[jimbob22]

We were on this ship 3 weeks ago. I seem to recall seeing a very small library, but you should definitely bring your own reading materials.

 

Sometimes in the various bar areas (Lincoln stage, Crow's nest) I'd see groups of people of all ages, set up with board games, cards, etc.

 

Another quiet area for reading would be the tables at the Grand Dutch Cafe.

[frankc98376]

So hoped that this would change but HAL doesn't seem to be hearing the library lovers. It isn't just the books but also the kind of space it is--quiet, comfortable, books, periodicals, a wondeful place to read, do a puzzle. If every space has to have a dollar value then soon we will be paying for shows, lounges around the pool, seating on decks, hot tubs, cooking demonstrations, movies on board, etc. Many of us hope that HAL will reconsider this avenue and return library space as a library with books, quiet seating (not on the side of an open space that is seldom quiet), etc.

 

In the past deck chairs were rented for the cruise- we now have the Cabanas if one wants deck chairs in a private enclave.. Other lines are already charging for shows and MSC has a fee "5D" Theatre. We pay to use the Hydrotherapy pool and on S and R ships is just a hot tub in a nicer room. Most if not all of these are free on premium lines (Siversea, Seabourn, etc) but they certainly don't offer $299 and $399 seven night cruises. I guess the question is if HAL fares started at $1999 for inside cabins on seven night cruises to offer all of the amenities would the ships fill?

 

In 1983 we paid $999 for an inside cabin on a HAL Alaska seven night cruise. Yes- we had champagne and caviar and all the extras but was a lot of money then and we expected it.

[MarkWiltonM]

We just got back from an 11-night cruise on the Koningsdam (which we thoroughly enjoyed). There were some books in the Crow's Nest, which appears to be used as a catch-all coffee shop, bar, library, card room, and activity center. There's also a table with a huge jigsaw puzzle in progress you can try your hand at. We like it up there but it's usually pretty crowded, especially at sailaways because of the great views, and it's not particularly quiet because of the activities like trivia games. I am a Kindle reader, and I stocked my e-reader with library books just before we set sail because my primary activities on ships are eating, reading, and napping. We don't do shows and we don't gamble. For me, cruising is a rare opportunity to relax because I don't have to make a lot of decisions. I enjoyed reading on the Lido deck both in the Marketplace during off hours with a cup of coffee and in the pool area on that deck, where we, along with many others, also played cards. We also read and played cards in various places during the day including the Queen's Lounge, which was often empty and had tables with ocean views, and other bars around the ship that have comfortable seating and are all usually quiet, during the day at least. Regarding the Grand Dutch Cafe, at times it got crowded for lunch and one day there were a couple of guys monopolizing a table playing cards who were not eating or drinking anything at the cafe. There were people who had ordered food who had no where to sit and these guys were either oblivious to the situation or didn't care.

[LocoLoco1]

MarkWM, Thanks for the recent info. Coupla questions: So, there ARE a few card tables and 1 Puzzle Table, correct?? How about nice lounger chairs. Is there SCRABBLE, CHESS and CRIBBAGE boards and World Atlases to page thru?? How about IceCream or Gelato..is it still free?? Never thought I'd have to ask such questions of a HAL vessel.... We're boarding in March.

[MarkWiltonM]

LocoLoco1, I'm sorry I don't remember what was there other than the jigsaw puzzle table.  But there is comfortable seating. 

[Rlandrigan]

I read 95% of my books on my phone, but I dearly loved the library on the Zuiderdam, and miss it well before our trip on the Nieuw Statendam. Even the little library on the Regal Princess was a nice visit or two. 

It's a nice bit of serendipity, something everyone is trying to remove. One of the reasons we're cruising next year is hop away from the hyperplanning needed for a Disney trip, for instance.

[Crew News]

On 1/24/2018 at 3:05 PM, LocoLoco1 said:

MarkWM, Thanks for the recent info. Coupla questions: So, there ARE a few card tables and 1 Puzzle Table, correct?? How about nice lounger chairs. Is there SCRABBLE, CHESS and CRIBBAGE boards and World Atlases to page thru?? How about IceCream or Gelato..is it still free?? Never thought I'd have to ask such questions of a HAL vessel.... We're boarding in March.

 

To the best of my knowledge, gelato has never been available in the Crow's Nest/Explorations Cafe.  Here are the contents of the Konigsdam Explorations Cafe display case:

 

Free ice cream in the Lido Market Sweet Spot and gelato (not free) can be found across from the Dive In on Deck 9:

 

Crow's nest does have lots of chairs.

[TonyC1952]

You cannot consider the bookshelves they have on the Koningsdam a "library". It is pitiful. I've sailed the Amsterdam and Rotterdam with expansive areas of bookshelves and comfortable chairs that is QUIET. Not so on the Koningsdam. If you want to read on the Koningsdam, I'd recommend taking your own books.

 

[Crew News]

1 hour ago, TonyC1952 said:

You cannot consider the bookshelves they have on the Koningsdam a "library". It is pitiful. I've sailed the Amsterdam and Rotterdam with expansive areas of bookshelves and comfortable chairs that is QUIET. Not so on the Koningsdam. If you want to read on the Koningsdam, I'd recommend taking your own books.

 

The HAL CEO, told those in attendance onboard the Nieuw Statendam that the libraries were being eliminated because passengers stole the books and replacements were expenssive.  For those ships that still have libraries, they will probabaly drift away.  Some ships have book exchange shelves instead of the libraries. 

[OlsSalt]

3 hours ago, Crew News said:

The HAL CEO, told those in attendance onboard the Nieuw Statendam that the libraries were being eliminated because passengers stole the books and replacements were expenssive.  For those ships that still have libraries, they will probabaly drift away.  Some ships have book exchange shelves instead of the libraries. 

 

HAL CEO bogus excuse does not pass the smell test. 

[TonyC1952]

Yes, the excuse about losing $2,000,000 in books is completely bogus. HAL is simply looking to generate more $ in the former library spaces on their ships. For some of us, we'd like to sit in a QUIET space and read a physical book. That experience is available on the Rotterdam and the Amsterdam. Not so much on the Koningsdam-