Jacqueline Posted August 16, 2016 #101 Share Posted August 16, 2016 It's not going to change. I will say it again. I am talking about Cunard, not other brands. In fact I suggested earlier that the poster go to a line with gratuities included if that was a source of so much discomfort. BlueRiband's points elaborate on this conversation in terms of the difficulty of implementation. Which is why it's not going to happen. It has been discussed on the other carnival brand boards , specifically Princess, in my experience. It's been 17 years. And people from down under have been making the same complaints FOR SEVENTEEN YEARS. And the system hasn't changed. The only changes I may have heard of is that cruises down under , geared to that market,under include tips as that is the local custom. Removing your tips, so far hasn't changed the system. Expressing your displeasure hasn't yielded the desired results. Comment cards and online complaints, same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunky2219 Posted August 16, 2016 #102 Share Posted August 16, 2016 ................If the tips are rolled into the cruise price, then it is commissionable, which means that the TA gets more, and all things being equal, the staff less. And yet, with Celebrity I can pay in advance for gratuities at a small discount via my UK TA. Methinks it's simpler than you might believe. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olliesmum Posted August 16, 2016 #103 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Changing to an entirely different system of crew compensation - which is what would happen if tips were rolled into the fare - would require negotiation with all of the maritime unions involved. Not that that cannot be done, but it would take years to get agreement with all of the parties involved. Then Cunard is left with the problem of how to appear price competitive on similar itineraries. You think that the crews from the Philippines and Eastern Europe are in a union?! The reason Cunard changed the registration of their ships to Hamilton is so they can pay whatever they like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare BlueRiband Posted August 17, 2016 #104 Share Posted August 17, 2016 You think that the crews from the Philippines and Eastern Europe are in a union?! The reason Cunard changed the registration of their ships to Hamilton is so they can pay whatever they like. Yes, the International Transport Workers' Federation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salacia Posted August 17, 2016 #105 Share Posted August 17, 2016 To those who remove their Hotel and Dining charge....Do you suggest all passengers remove the H&D Charge as you do, or are you comfortable being subsided by those who continue to pay up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUT2407 Posted August 17, 2016 #106 Share Posted August 17, 2016 To those who remove their Hotel and Dining charge....Do you suggest all passengers remove the H&D Charge as you do, or are you comfortable being subsided by those who continue to pay up? It's up to them, as is what I do about mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussieflyer Posted August 17, 2016 #107 Share Posted August 17, 2016 (edited) Yes, the International Transport Workers' Federation. My understanding was that staff are hired through an third party agency and I thought I had read that they were not allowed to be unionised as part of this. I may be mistaken however. Edited August 17, 2016 by Aussieflyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salacia Posted August 17, 2016 #108 Share Posted August 17, 2016 It's up to them, as is what I do about mine. Yes, it is. Just that those who remove the H&D charge currently face no deleterious effects since other passengers pick up the slack. BTW, experienced cruisers from various countries tip on cruise ships, despite their local custom back home. Tipping is a practice that has been in place since passengers first sailed on ships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normandie_Nostalgic Posted August 17, 2016 #109 Share Posted August 17, 2016 As always when debating this sticky topic of tips, we are totally in the dark. But logic suggests that if indeed the tip pool is the source of much of the crew’s pay, then Cunard and the other shipping lines cannot afford to leave that essential funding to the vagaries of individual passengers and their personal or national tipping habits. In case the tip pool would be insufficient to cover the crew salaries, the crew still needs to get paid, and Cunard would have to chip in to make good the shortfall, as it already does in Australian waters. As long as passengers play along docilely footing the bill and being subject to an infect moral blackmail, the system will not change. The worst part is that the blackmail is based on the false premise, that poor deserving staff will not get paid at all if we withdraw from the levy. Of course they will, how could Cunard get away not paying the staff? Therefore, all passengers have to do to force the industry to get rid of that pesky tipping policy is to starve the tip pool and force Cunard and others to chip in. If they want to restore their margins, they will have to reflect the extra cost in their pricing structure, like any sensible business would do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare BlueRiband Posted August 17, 2016 #110 Share Posted August 17, 2016 (edited) My understanding was that staff are hired through an third party agency and I thought I had read that they were not allowed to be unionised as part of this. I may be mistaken however. All three Cunard ships have an agreement in place, as can be verified here. As always when debating this sticky topic of tips, we are totally in the dark. But logic suggests that if indeed the tip pool is the source of much of the crew’s pay, then Cunard and the other shipping lines cannot afford to leave that essential funding to the vagaries of individual passengers and their personal or national tipping habits. In case the tip pool would be insufficient to cover the crew salaries, the crew still needs to get paid, and Cunard would have to chip in to make good the shortfall, as it already does in Australian waters. As long as passengers play along docilely footing the bill and being subject to an infect moral blackmail, the system will not change. The worst part is that the blackmail is based on the false premise, that poor deserving staff will not get paid at all if we withdraw from the levy. Of course they will, how could Cunard get away not paying the staff? Therefore, all passengers have to do to force the industry to get rid of that pesky tipping policy is to starve the tip pool and force Cunard and others to chip in. If they want to restore their margins, they will have to reflect the extra cost in their pricing structure, like any sensible business would do. I agree - there is no tipping on airlines. But you and I would have to convince our fellow passengers to pay substantially higher fares. I don't see this happening when we have threads asking for "best time to book" and other price conscious strategies. Edited August 17, 2016 by BlueRiband Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussieflyer Posted August 17, 2016 #111 Share Posted August 17, 2016 All three Cunard ships have an agreement in place, as can be verified here. Thank you for the clarification BlueRiband. As I said in my post I had thought I had read it somewhere but am happy to be corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepperrn Posted August 17, 2016 #112 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Out of curiosity, genuine question. Do those who regularly sail with the up-market/all inclusive/expensive "tipping included" lines (not the mass-market lines who occasionally sail "down under"), also tip their cabin steward or waiter anyway? Even when advised there is no need at all to do so? I've read that this is actively discouraged, or am I mistaken? Maybe out of habit, as they are so used to tipping for everything back home? (I've only ever sailed with Cunard so have no experience of other lines) (I ask because there is a part of me that thinks that, if the "auto-tip" was rolled into the fare, and we all paid more, then within a very short time some passengers would start giving tips to cabin stewards or favourite waiters (out of habit?). Some new passengers, not wishing to appear mean, would then start tipping as well, but wouldn't know how much to tip (too little/too much?). So then the cruise lines would suggest a sensible daily amount, to help people out. Then they'd offer to take care of this tipping issue with a daily fee, added to the passenger's on-board account, "so you don't have to worry about it". They could call it the "Hotel and Dining Charge" :D ). In some areas of the world tipping is almost unheard of, in others it is simply a fact of everyday life. Cruiselines, sailing across international divides, have to deal, somehow, with both cultures it seems to me; tricky one. OK, OK, I'll get my coat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balf Posted August 17, 2016 #113 Share Posted August 17, 2016 To those who remove their Hotel and Dining charge....Do you suggest all passengers remove the H&D Charge as you do, or are you comfortable being subsided by those who continue to pay up? Are you comfortable being filched by those who don't? David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUT2407 Posted August 17, 2016 #114 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Out of curiosity, genuine question. Do those who regularly sail with the up-market/all inclusive/expensive "tipping included" lines (not the mass-market lines who occasionally sail "down under"), also tip their cabin steward or waiter anyway? Even when advised there is no need at all to do so? I've read that this is actively discouraged, or am I mistaken? Maybe out of habit, as they are so used to tipping for everything back home? (I've only ever sailed with Cunard so have no experience of other lines) (I ask because there is a part of me that thinks that, if the "auto-tip" was rolled into the fare, and we all paid more, then within a very short time some passengers would start giving tips to cabin stewards or favourite waiters (out of habit?). Some new passengers, not wishing to appear mean, would then start tipping as well, but wouldn't know how much to tip (too little/too much?). So then the cruise lines would suggest a sensible daily amount, to help people out. Then they'd offer to take care of this tipping issue with a daily fee, added to the passenger's on-board account, "so you don't have to worry about it". They could call it the "Hotel and Dining Charge" :D ). In some areas of the world tipping is almost unheard of, in others it is simply a fact of everyday life. Cruiselines, sailing across international divides, have to deal, somehow, with both cultures it seems to me; tricky one. OK, OK, I'll get my coat... I agree. Which the system of having different arrangements depending on where the ship is sailing is probably a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balf Posted August 17, 2016 #115 Share Posted August 17, 2016 To try to answer Peppern's query Saga do make it clear that no extras tipping is expected, though staff are not bared from accepting if offered. This is exactly as with Cunard surely, given that many passengers give additional tips while leaving the auto ones in place. Saga are a British company and did not seem to encounter any problems with setting up the system. By personal experience the staff seemed to be the happiest that I have seen on any ship, though whether this was because of the tipping policy I don't know, while many Cunard staff seem to be just the opposite. David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussieflyer Posted August 17, 2016 #116 Share Posted August 17, 2016 (edited) To give a partial answer to Pepperrn, on Princess in Australian waters where gratuities are included, we still usually give our cabin steward and waiter/barstaff if we have the same waiter or have had a particularly helpful bar member over the cruise. On Silversea (which we have only done once) I think we may have given our butler and his offsider a little extra but I am not 100% sure of this. We were on an Avalon cruise where we had a little 'chit' to put in the envelope to say our gratuities had been prepaid and we did not tip extra at all. There was one chit for the housekeeping staff and one for the CD (which annoyed me as he therefore was someone special). Edited August 17, 2016 by Aussieflyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olliesmum Posted August 17, 2016 #117 Share Posted August 17, 2016 My understanding was that staff are hired through an third party agency and I thought I had read that they were not allowed to be unionised as part of this. I may be mistaken however. Yes, sort of correct. They are not unionised as they are agency workers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare BlueRiband Posted August 17, 2016 #118 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Yes, sort of correct. They are not unionised as they are agency workers. Please see post #110. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunky2219 Posted August 17, 2016 #119 Share Posted August 17, 2016 To those who remove their Hotel and Dining charge....Do you suggest all passengers remove the H&D Charge as you do, or are you comfortable being subsided by those who continue to pay up? What if we all did it on every cruise? No-one would be "subsidised" by anyone else and in pretty short order it would all be included in the price. What a wonderful day that would be. Even better, there would be an end to tipping threads. Surely a greater achievement than world peace or putting a a gender-neutral member of humanity on Mars. At least those dreams are possible and will happen one day. Tipping threads, I doubt. :rolleyes: . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Solent Richard Posted August 17, 2016 #120 Share Posted August 17, 2016 You think that the crews from the Philippines and Eastern Europe are in a union?! The reason Cunard changed the registration of their ships to Hamilton is so they can pay whatever they like. And there was me thinking it was purely to do with making it easier to conduct wedding ceremonies. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamflightPat Posted August 17, 2016 #121 Share Posted August 17, 2016 And there was me thinking it was purely to do with making it easier to conduct wedding ceremonies. Oh well. You are right Solent Richard. I was told that was the reason for registering in Bermuda. regards Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Host Hattie Posted August 17, 2016 #122 Share Posted August 17, 2016 You are right Solent Richard. I was told that was the reason for registering in Bermuda. regards Pat It may have been one of the reasons, it probably wasn't the only one. The ITF certainly doesn't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majortom10 Posted August 17, 2016 #123 Share Posted August 17, 2016 On our last cruise on QV the Commodore was asked about ship registration in his Q&A and he gave 2 reasons for it 1) so they can do weddings and 2) so that they were not constrained by workers conditions and pay if Cunard ships were registered in Southampton or the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Host Hattie Posted August 17, 2016 #124 Share Posted August 17, 2016 That sounds more likely and good for him for being honest about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resistk Posted August 18, 2016 #125 Share Posted August 18, 2016 To those who remove their Hotel and Dining charge....Do you suggest all passengers remove the H&D Charge as you do, or are you comfortable being subsided by those who continue to pay up? Tipping is optional that is why Cunard and other lines let you remove the tip there is no subsidy involved. No need to feel one way or the other about it; unlike a restaurant, no one is going to chase you down when you leave the ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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