OBC and the Casino

[Miaminice]

Not for sure, on the Summit they told us they can't tell the difference between refundable and non-refundable OBC, so as long as it shows any OBC on your account you only get the promo chips.

 

The information given to you is nonsense :)

Even you can tell the difference on your stateroom TV.

When you open your account and you have OBC it will say OBN or OBR behind it for non-refundable and refundable.

 

Non-refundable is always used first. So as long as you have OBN they have to give you promo chips. When that is gone you'll get regular chips against your OBR.

[Miaminice]

I love how Celebrity IT was so incompetent for so long that you're unable to view your OBC balances on your account until day 2 or 3 of a cruise... but once they decide to start withholding OBC balances they can magically do it the second you board. :rolleyes:

 

It has always been the case that they receive the account data for new passengers in the first night of the cruise. It even says so on the website where you can buy OBC. So unless there is a computer problem you should be able to see it on day 2 of the cruise. I can live with that...

[NantahalaCruiser]

I think there was a thread a while back about how to convert your OBC to cash by playing roulette. If you cannot find it, I think it involved betting your OBC chips on both red and black, knowing that (unless green comes up) one will win and double and the other will lose. So if you bet $20 on each of red and black with OBC chips, each hand you will lose $20 in OBC chips and gain $20 in cash. Then take the cash and make the same bet again with only OBC chips. You can keep doing this until all of your OBC chips are lost and you have the same amount of cash.

 

And you can of course hedge with a smaller bet on green in case that comes up. If you don't hedge and green comes up you'd lose everything you bet that hand; if you hedge each hand you'll lose most of those smaller bets. So it is not necessarily a 1:1 conversion of OBC to cash but it would be pretty close. And you'd have fun gambling too!

 

The house advantage for roulette is a little over 5% while their advantage at the craps table is only about 1.4%. So if you merely wish to find a way to convert your OBC to cash with offsetting bets, bet the pass and don't pass at craps instead of black and red at roulette.

 

To put it another way, at roulette you will lose both promo chips when the green 0 or 00 comes up 5.26% of the time; while at craps when a 12 is rolled you will lose only one promo chip (only the chip on the pass line since 12 is a push (tie) on the don't pass line) 2.78% of the time.

 

So if your objective is to convert $300 of OBC to cash, then on average you will get back about $284 playing offsetting bets at roulette and about $296 with offsetting bets at craps.

 

Either way, you'll also have fun!

 

Larry

[WAVTAM]

Larry, Can I ask you to expand on your idea. We have 400 OBC and did the red/black split and won back 386.

However discussion is they are NOT allowing red/black or even /odd play with promotional to do this.

Since I never play craps, a little lesson on how to play the pass line.

[Miaminice]

However discussion is they are NOT allowing red/black or even /odd play with promotional to do this.

 

;) If you place a bet on one and your other half on the other, they can not really do anything against that, can they ? ;)

[WAVTAM]

;) If you place a bet on one and your other half on the other, they can not really do anything against that, can they ? ;

 

The pit boss raised a stink. I just argued I did it the day before.

They set the rules.

[ISABELLA]

Is it legal for Cruise line to limit how a person should bet and or have different sets of rules for the same game if you play with promo chips or regular chips?

[jagoffee]

Is it legal for Cruise line to limit how a person should bet and or have different sets of rules for the same game if you play with promo chips or regular chips?

 

I would think it would certainly be legal for Celebrity to not allow OBC to be used in any form in the Casino or perhaps just not allow the use of non refundable OBC.

 

I would think it would also be legal for Celebrity to have rules to eliminate the possibility of any cruiser being able get a "refund" on non refundable OBC. It is very clear that non refundable is not refundable.

[Ma Bell]

I would think it would certainly be legal for Celebrity to not allow OBC to be used in any form in the Casino or perhaps just not allow the use of non refundable OBC.

 

I would think it would also be legal for Celebrity to have rules to eliminate the possibility of any cruiser being able get a "refund" on non refundable OBC. It is very clear that non refundable is not refundable.

 

Yes, it's really amazing to me that people are offended if they are unable to do something that is clearly not supposed to be done and they actually come here to try to find ways to basically cheat the system.

[NantahalaCruiser]

Larry, Can I ask you to expand on your idea. We have 400 OBC and did the red/black split and won back 386.

However discussion is they are NOT allowing red/black or even /odd play with promotional to do this.

Since I never play craps, a little lesson on how to play the pass line.

 

Quick craps lesson:

On the first roll of a sequence of rolls: 7 or 11 wins, 2, 3 or 12 loses, 4 to 6 or 8 to 10 becomes the "point" for subsequent rolls in the sequence.

 

If there is no win or loss on the first roll, the shooter continues to roll until either the "point" (win) or a 7 (loss) occurs.

 

Then a new sequence begins.

 

You bet either "pass" or "don't pass" right before the beginning of a new sequence. The pass line is betting with the shooter, while the don't pass line is betting against the shooter.

 

The two bets are almost complementary: If pass wins then don't pass loses; if pass loses then don't pass wins - with the exception that if the pass lost due to a 12 on the first roll, the don't pass only ties instead of winning.

 

If the pit boss at roulette is not allowing red/black, they probably will also not allow the pass/don't pass at craps. Of course, the obvious way around either method is to use two people to bet the opposite sides - or were they also objecting to that?

 

At roulette, I wonder what they would do if you put 38 promo chips on each of the numbers including 0 and 00 and then collected 35 regular chips from the winning number!

 

Enjoy

Larry

Edited August 22, 2016 by NantahalaCruiser

[MicCanberra]

When it comes to the OBC they want it spent on board, the same applies to the Promo chips. If you want to take cash away, you need to gamble it and take your winnings, if any.

Edited August 22, 2016 by MicCanberra

[NantahalaCruiser]

When it comes to the OBC they want it spent on board, the same applies to the Promo chips. If you want to take cash away, you need to gamble it and take your winnings, if any.

 

 

Which you cannot really blame them for.

 

 

One final comment on craps versus roulette. If you cannot make offsetting bets and decide to gamble your promo chips on even money bets to convert them to regular chips, then the math works out that your average conversion rate will equal:

 

(1-HA) / (1+HA) where HA is the house advantage

 

With roulette HA = 2/38 or about 5.26% and the average conversion rate is exactly 90%

 

With craps HA = about 1.41% and the average conversion rate is slightly over 97%

 

So if you have 100 promo chips to gamble with even money bets until you run out of promo chips, on average you will get back 90 regular chips playing roulette and 97 playing craps. Of course, since its a gamble, you could end up with somewhat more or less than the average - but craps is still the best bet (pun intended)

 

Enjoy

Larry

Edited August 22, 2016 by NantahalaCruiser

[MicCanberra]

Thanks Larry, I don't blame them at all.

 

BTW, Promo chips on Red/black was not allowed on the Connie back in May. we just put $500 OBC onto our cards as promo dollars and then played. When we won we pulled it out as cash. We had $477 in winnings which is a return of 95% but then it may have been better or worse depending on the person playing as we sometimes played the winnings as well.:D

[ISABELLA]

Yes, it's really amazing to me that people are offended if they are unable to do something that is clearly not supposed to be done and they actually come here to try to find ways to basically cheat the system.

 

I don't gamble, so it doesn't matter to me, but just curious is it within rules to limit a player how to bet and where is not allowed to bet, using promotional chips.

[Ma Bell]

I don't gamble, so it doesn't matter to me, but just curious is it within rules to limit a player how to bet and where is not allowed to bet, using promotional chips.

 

I would think so. The key is that they are promotional chips or credits which are meant to be played and not cashed in. Anything else that is obtained with promotional money still gives Celebrity a profit. Food, drinks, services and merchandise all include a profit for the company. It's just like the coupons they give you for loyalty status. They have to be played and won before you get a real chip. If you lose the coupon is gone. They don't give you cash for your coupons before they are played.

[MicCanberra]

I don't gamble, so it doesn't matter to me, but just curious is it within rules to limit a player how to bet and where is not allowed to bet, using promotional chips.

 

They are the house and as such they make the rules. I have seen people asked to leave a casino (land) because they were wining too much. Maybe they thought they were cheating or counting cards but it happens.

Edited August 22, 2016 by MicCanberra

[drsel]

Quick craps lesson:

On the first roll of a sequence of rolls: 7 or 11 wins, 2, 3 or 12 loses, 4 to 6 or 8 to 10 becomes the "point" for subsequent rolls in the sequence.

 

If there is no win or loss on the first roll, the shooter continues to roll until either the "point" (win) or a 7 (loss) occurs.

 

Then a new sequence begins.

 

You bet either "pass" or "don't pass" right before the beginning of a new sequence. The pass line is betting with the shooter, while the don't pass line is betting against the shooter.

 

The two bets are almost complementary: If pass wins then don't pass loses; if pass loses then don't pass wins - with the exception that if the pass lost due to a 12 on the first roll, the don't pass only ties instead of winning.

 

If the pit boss at roulette is not allowing red/black, they probably will also not allow the pass/don't pass at craps. Of course, the obvious way around either method is to use two people to bet the opposite sides - or were they also objecting to that?

 

At roulette, I wonder what they would do if you put 38 promo chips on each of the numbers including 0 and 00 and then collected 35 regular chips from the winning number!

 

Enjoy

Larry

If the pit boss doesn't allow Red/Black, he certainly won't allow you to put 38 promo chips on each of the numbers including 0 and 00 and then collected 35 regular chips from the winning number!

[emerald777]

This is all really strange. We've been cruising for years through both ship's casino's and land casino offers. We always go tot he cashier and take out, say 400.00, which goes on our onboard account. Whatever is on the account is lowered by whatever onboard credit we have. I've never had a problem with the OBC being credited against a cash out from the casino. Our last Celebrity cruise was last November, has it changed since then?

[Miaminice]

I've never had a problem with the OBC being credited against a cash out from the casino. Our last Celebrity cruise was last November, has it changed since then?

 

Again, it depends on if your OBC is refundable or non-refundable.

 

Non-refundable OBC is not paid out any more for quite a while already. There is no exception on any ship (as there sometimes is with other things), it is fleet wide.

 

You can have promo-chips and cash your winnings - no problem.

However, no cash for non-refundable OBC!

[emerald777]

It has always been Nonrefundable OBC.

[Miaminice]

It has always been Nonrefundable OBC.

 

Well, then you are out of luck now... I don´t know when exactly they made the change but it was not possible on both our cruises this year (1st one was in May).

 

On our last cruise in October we bet our OBC half on red, half on black until we had converted our promo chips.

[SHIP TRAVELER]

We are gamblers and enjoy video poker and Black Jack. I do not ever play slots unless it is freebie tourney.

We spend time in Las Vegas and other gambling venues every year.

 

We have never gambled much on ships except to play match plays, free plays and CC slot pulls because of poor video poker schedules,

smoke, unfriendly super fast Black Jack dealers and SMOKE.

 

All this improved when Celebrity changed to a non-smoking Casino.

The dealers seem a little more professional lately and poor video poker (95%) is off set somewhat by the on board credit conversion.

 

On our last Silly cruise we had a drink package, were not interested in any ship shore excursions and had won a specialty dinner night.

I do not need tee shirts or cheap watches and do not shop on board.

 

We had over $400 Non refundable OBC on a 9 night cruise.

We enjoyed playing it through the casino at both Black Jack and Video Poker.

We played fair and gave Celebrity a chance to win it all back. As it turned out we broke about even, some days up and some days down.

I never got around to play Craps on board but probably would have enjoyed it.

 

As I recall for slots/video poker I had $100 downloaded onto my card at a time.

When I went up to a machine, I had the option of how much to download (usually I took $20 or $40)

and the rest just stayed on the card until the next time I wanted to play before the show or dinner.

 

At Black Jack we took $100 Promo chips at a time so that we did not have so many to carry around.

We usually split them on the table. We were able to do this with both kinds of OBC.

 

If you are not a regular gambler, I suggest that you spend some time learning to play basic Black Jack properly before the cruise to improve your odds.

 

Converting OBC this way is not for every one but I don't like to waste my money in the shops and spa so it works for me.

 

Good Luck

[emerald777]

Are you all actually asking for a payout of OBC? Or are you just going to the cage and asking for a cash advance? I ask for a cash advance. It goes on our account and like every other charge on the cruise, the balance is lowered by whatever OBC we have. Our next cruise is totally free from the casino, and we live in Vegas, so not exactly a casino novice. I'm just trying to let you guys know that there might be a different way to get your OBC.

[Miaminice]

I'm just trying to let you guys know that there might be a different way to get your OBC.

 

Jan, again... you used to be able to do that: payout... cash advance...

 

It is different now. They posted signs stating the fact on every ship. No cash you get is charged against non-refundable OBC (OBN).

You can get cash, but it does not help in the matter discussed here. It will be charged on your account without touching the OBN.

 

All you get for OBN is promo chips in a different color. You can gamble and cash your winnings but not the promo chips. Celebrity closed the loophole of cashing in OBN! It is as simple as that ;)

Edited November 25, 2016 by Miaminice