Please don't bring non-potty trained kids in the pools!

[First and Ten]

Sure, you can do a lot of homework - but it's not exactly front and center. So you spend $15k to take your family on a vacation, and have to literally avoid the entire sun/pool deck because it causes your child pain as he isn't old enough to understand what a stupid rules and bureaucracy is.

QUOTE]

 

So the price point is a factor on if you follow rules or not? So you spent 15K, would it be different if you spent 5K or got a free cruise? If you spend 15K then its ok to roll the dice and chance if your kid sh*ts in the pool, but if you spend under 10K, then just follow the rules :rolleyes:

Edited August 10, 2016 by First and Ten

[BNBR]

That is technically correct - the park was cited for their treatment procedures. As far as "not monitored accordingly" - I can bet you that the parent of the child who had the potty accident slipped away quietly and said nothing to anyone, because who wants to be the one to shut down the system. And I would bet that the majority of parents would do the same.

 

And, those swim diapers will never keep 100% of everything inside of them. My youngest two children wore them, when in their plastic splash pool here at my home, so I do speak from experience! Let's just say the pool was bleached many times.

 

If that water was treated correctly and monitored as it should be, the outbreak and dead child would never have happened. Even the articles I read, looking this up, says because of that incident, it's unlikely we'll ever see it happen again. Monitoring and sterilization has come a long ways.

 

My father has been in the pool business for decades. I've owned pools for as long as I've had a house. I'm very familiar with water quality, treatment, chlorine, UV, etc. We all have about as perfect water as you will find.

 

There is a reason you can take kids, with swim diapers, into just about any public pool - which includes splash pads and toddler pools. Yet on the cruise, they can't play in a splash zone. It comes off as absurd to me.

 

For what it's worth - we avoided this area our entire cruise and did NOT break the rules. But I would highly consider just lying about a swim diaper next time, as other parents did. Even parents with children NOT in swim diapers were upset with the crew for kicking little children out of the splash zone. Maybe it's one of those "you had to be there" to "get it" kind of things.

 

It's all good :)

[chengkp75]

That is technically correct - the park was cited for their treatment procedures. As far as "not monitored accordingly" - I can bet you that the parent of the child who had the potty accident slipped away quietly and said nothing to anyone, because who wants to be the one to shut down the system. And I would bet that the majority of parents would do the same.

 

And, those swim diapers will never keep 100% of everything inside of them. My youngest two children wore them, when in their plastic splash pool here at my home, so I do speak from experience! Let's just say the pool was bleached many times.

 

Absolutely correct, and given that the pools and splash areas generally have the same water treatment facility (common to all the water features onboard, hence mixing of the water), an accident in the splash area can contaminate the main pools. This is why the "baby only" pools are required to have a separate water system.

 

That's a sad tragedy, but hardly relevant - even though it may seem so on the surface. It had to do with treatment and monitoring. The pool had almost no chlorine, wasn't treated properly and not monitored accordingly. This was negligence by the park in their water treatment. This is why children are allowed to swim, with swim diapers on, at just about any pool in America.

 

So, let me get this straight. What you are saying is that because there is little oversight of shore pools, and consequently the possibility of low chlorine levels, this is why they allow swim diapers? And swim diapers do what exactly? Are they waterproof? Absolutely not when you've seen a kid wearing them in the pool for more than a few minutes come out with it hanging around his knees. Are they germ-proof? What is the benefit of swim diapers, other than enhancing the diaper industry's bottom line.

 

And so, when an agency says that they want stricter rules, you decide you can ignore them. Wow. As one who has had to work to maintain USPH standards on the ships, I am also one who salutes the USPH for setting them, no matter how difficult they are to maintain, because I for one look at things from a passenger health and safety viewpoint, whether I'm cruising for enjoyment or working on the ship.

 

Look at the linked article that references a study by the CDC of shoreside public pools, which the CDC has no control over, but which are subject to state and local statutes. 80% would fail a USPH/CDC inspection.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwie0s63kLfOAhUW8WMKHZkYAl8QFggyMAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.latimes.com%2Fscience%2Fsciencenow%2Fla-sci-sn-public-pools-code-violations-20160519-snap-story.html&usg=AFQjCNEYguuzVcfzdXIGtQvtVNoDYhv6xw

[crusinpsychRN]

It's dangerous to have kids in swim diapers in pools or around splash areas.

Some people are just ignorant willing to expose others to this.

[chengkp75]

If that water was treated correctly and monitored as it should be, the outbreak and dead child would never have happened. Even the articles I read, looking this up, says because of that incident, it's unlikely we'll ever see it happen again. Monitoring and sterilization has come a long ways.

 

My father has been in the pool business for decades. I've owned pools for as long as I've had a house. I'm very familiar with water quality, treatment, chlorine, UV, etc. We all have about as perfect water as you will find.

 

There is a reason you can take kids, with swim diapers, into just about any public pool - which includes splash pads and toddler pools. Yet on the cruise, they can't play in a splash zone. It comes off as absurd to me.

 

For what it's worth - we avoided this area our entire cruise and did NOT break the rules. But I would highly consider just lying about a swim diaper next time, as other parents did. Even parents with children NOT in swim diapers were upset with the crew for kicking little children out of the splash zone. Maybe it's one of those "you had to be there" to "get it" kind of things.

 

It's all good :)

 

Ah, got it. You and your father know more than the leading epidemiologists in the world. Got it.

 

And those same parents with children not in swim diapers who were upset, would be the first to scream bloody murder and demand compensation if they or their kid came down with something from the pool or noro or whatever, and would be demanding to know why the ship wasn't following USPH regulations, and what the USPH and the Federal Government will be doing about it. Trust me, I've "been there", and I "get it", but its not like you say.

[BNBR]

Absolutely correct, and given that the pools and splash areas generally have the same water treatment facility (common to all the water features onboard, hence mixing of the water), an accident in the splash area can contaminate the main pools. This is why the "baby only" pools are required to have a separate water system.

 

 

 

So, let me get this straight. What you are saying is that because there is little oversight of shore pools, and consequently the possibility of low chlorine levels, this is why they allow swim diapers? And swim diapers do what exactly? Are they waterproof? Absolutely not when you've seen a kid wearing them in the pool for more than a few minutes come out with it hanging around his knees. Are they germ-proof? What is the benefit of swim diapers, other than enhancing the diaper industry's bottom line.

 

And so, when an agency says that they want stricter rules, you decide you can ignore them. Wow. As one who has had to work to maintain USPH standards on the ships, I am also one who salutes the USPH for setting them, no matter how difficult they are to maintain, because I for one look at things from a passenger health and safety viewpoint, whether I'm cruising for enjoyment or working on the ship.

 

Look at the linked article that references a study by the CDC of shoreside public pools, which the CDC has no control over, but which are subject to state and local statutes. 80% would fail a USPH/CDC inspection.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwie0s63kLfOAhUW8WMKHZkYAl8QFggyMAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.latimes.com%2Fscience%2Fsciencenow%2Fla-sci-sn-public-pools-code-violations-20160519-snap-story.html&usg=AFQjCNEYguuzVcfzdXIGtQvtVNoDYhv6xw

 

And yet you probably swim in these pools anyways. Apparently, they are safe. They are well within health and safety standards. Have you never been to a water park? It's not terribly complicated to filter and sanitize water. Are you saying the cruise ships don't filter and sanitize water as it's being circulated? That worries me more than any child playing with a water cannon....

[RuthlessBoss]

It's dangerous to have kids in swim diapers in pools or around splash areas.

Some people are just ignorant willing to expose others to this.

 

Part of it is ignorance, but I think parents with babies think it's so cute to see their baby kick in the water so they can get that all famous picture. The only one really pleased is the parent to see a smile while giving no thought to hundreds of others if they need to close the pool because of them.

[crusinpsychRN]

Just saw it! GOOD for you!

 

Where? Can't find it. I'm not versed with fb. I go to visitor's posts and there is no way to write. What am I doing wrong?

[chengkp75]

And yet you probably swim in these pools anyways. Apparently, they are safe. They are well within health and safety standards. Have you never been to a water park? It's not terribly complicated to filter and sanitize water. Are you saying the cruise ships don't filter and sanitize water as it's being circulated? That worries me more than any child playing with a water cannon....

 

No, I avoid water parks, and public pools for just this reason. As far as ship's pools, I watch to see whether or not the crew are enforcing the rules as far as toddlers, and how they react to complaints. I've been on their side of the pool, so I know what to look for. While I don't dispute that your father and you know how to maintain pool chemistry, I don't believe either of you are epidemiologists. And the industry standard for pool chlorination on shore is 1-3ppm, while the USPH requires ship's pools to be at 2-4ppm, meaning they feel that even at what the pool industry feels is a safe minimum, they feel that there could be contamination. The cruise ships do filter and chlorinate their pools, and this is on a continuous dosing (to reflect changes in bather load) and continuous monitoring and recording. The 24 hour charts must be kept for 12 months, and are reviewed by the USPH inspectors when they are onboard.

[StolidCruiser]

My children are VERY well behaved, for what it's worth. But a 1 1/2 year old doesn't understand, in the slightest, why he can't walk around the entire splash zone, but can only sit in a sterile 8 foot circle with no toys, water guns, or anything else in that section.

 

Will I lie about a swim diaper so my 2 year old can walk around the splash park (but NOT the pool, to be clear) - yes, absolutely. Just as all the other parents did - without issue.

 

You're obviously doing a stellar job.

 

An actual good parent wouldn't proudly lie relative to a well-promoted public health issue.

 

An actual good parent would be able to manage their toddler's desire to do something they shouldn't. Making them "understand in the slightest" is kind of a parent's job.

 

It is beliefs such as yours that, when "accidents" happen, everyone else should just suck it up when water activities are suspended for proper cleaning and blame the operator for not having mechanisms to manage the system like a toilet.

 

How proud you must be.

[eh24fan]

Do you not understand how a swim diaper works? If your child poops in the diaper, in the water, it merely contains the solids. It does not keep the feces from contaminating the water. If your child is incapable of refraining from using the pool or splash area or whatever, as a potty, then that child should NOT be in there. Period.

[tonit964]

I would suggest that you google "whitewater e-coli incident". Here in metro Atlanta, we have a huge water park - now called Six Flags Whitewater. A child was in a pool and had a potty accident. TWENTY-SIX children contracted e-coli. SEVEN of those children were hospitalized, and ONE 2 year old died. This is not an issue of inconvenience - it can be a matter of life and death.

 

The problem is, BNBR doesn't care in the least.

[DebJ14]

We have been on several Carnival ships where the pool had to be shut down for cleaning due to "accidents." One was on the Ecstasy. Our grandchildren (ages 6 and 8 at the time) were heartbroken they couldn't swim on a really hot day.

 

On the Conquest, the back pool had to be shut down. We watched a man pick up his adult, severely handicapped daughter who was in diapers out of the wheelchair and carry her into the pool. Within 15 minutes there were feces floating in the pool and it had to be closed for cleaning. Her diaper was obviously dirty when he took her out of the pool when the attendants ordered everyone out.

 

On the Magic the splashpad was shut down because a child with a gash on his leg was bleeding all over everything. The parent said, "Oh, his stitches must have come out." A kid with stitches should not be playing in a public waterspace.

 

We paid lots of $$$ to stay at the Hyatt Hill Country with our grandchildren. The lazy river had to be shut down for cleaning for 2 days when a child in diapers had diarrhea in the pool. They reported it to the local health dept. and they kept it closed until they were satisfied that the water quality was satisfactory.

[JMKreno]

I am just going to pass the comment that I've been on 2 ships on 2 occasions where the adults only pool had to be closed due to, what I presume, was vomit (and a lot of it). Likely due to an overindulgent adult...

 

The amount of angst against little kids is somewhat irritating on this forum when I've encountered far more crappy ADULTS than I have encountered crappy kids/parents....

 

That said, the rules are the rules. I will be keeping my youngest daughter out of the pool/splashpark on our cruise and plan on her enjoying many beach days and Amber Cove.

[ScottsSweetie]

I am just going to pass the comment that I've been on 2 ships on 2 occasions where the adults only pool had to be closed due to, what I presume, was vomit (and a lot of it). Likely due to an overindulgent adult...

 

The amount of angst against little kids is somewhat irritating on this forum when I've encountered far more crappy ADULTS than I have encountered crappy kids/parents....

 

That said, the rules are the rules. I will be keeping my youngest daughter out of the pool/splashpark on our cruise and plan on her enjoying many beach days and Amber Cove.

 

While no less disgusting, and having the same outcome with a closed pool, it's not quite the same. It would be very difficult to calculate the odds of any given adult throwing up in a pool. Calculating the odds of a non-potty trained child having an accident is a lot easier.

 

I will repeat myself - there is no angst against kids on this thread. This thread boils down to "follow the Carnival rules and DO NOT put your non-potty trained child in the water".

[okeytaco]

Where did you post your photo and question to John Heald? I'd like to follow it to see if he answers you. Thanks.

[chengkp75]

I've been on 4 cruises, 2 of which had the adult pool closed for multiple hours....none of those had no reported issues (that I am aware of) with kids pooping in the pool, and one of these was during spring break (something like 900 kids aboard)? I bet "many" of the complains of "kids" closing the pools down were actually caused by adults.

 

CDC indicates NORO can be spread via vomit on pools...hmmm..interesting..

 

"http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/swimming/aquatics-professionals/vomit-blood-contamination.html"

 

"The germs most likely to be spread by vomit are noroviruses (also known as Norwalk-like viruses).

 

Respond to the vomit incident as you would respond to a formed fecal incident..."

 

Sounds like no one should be in pools, IMHO...

 

While it is true that anyone, young or old can have an accident, when that accident occurs, there must be a response, as you noted, your pools were closed. And I find it interesting that you quote the CDC with regards to pool sanitation, since it is the USPH, a division of the CDC, that has decided that the risk of allowing children in swim diapers is so much more than that from accidents, that a whole new set of requirements are needed. This is the key. The USPH knows that pool sanitation needs to be maintained, and set procedures for that, and that accidents happen, and set procedures for that. But the risks of having non-potty trained children in a pool are apparently so much greater that they require separate rules for their pools.

[vacin8r]

This is an interesting situation. I understand everyone's desire to keep human waste out of the pools and hot tubs, but the rule itself is borderline unenforceable. Yes, of course you can kick a baby out of the pool, but toddlers are different. Some toddlers are potty trained at 2. Others not until 4. My daughter was potty trained at 2.5 and I took her on a cruise after that and still put a swim diaper on her because despite potty training, she is still a kid and I guarantee at least 10 % of the potty trained kids and 5% (both numbers are probably much higher) of the alcohol enhanced adults urinate in the pool and I am trying to avoid as much contaminates entering the pool's water supply as possible. If someone with Carnival told me she cannot be in the pool in a swim diaper (which they never did), I would explain the situation and it would go down very similar to the story in the original post, I would remove the diaper and let her swim.

 

I am taking my toddler boy on a cruise in February and he will be 2.5. As of now he is not potty trained but I am already working on it. If he doesn't get there, then I wont let him swim. I would be fine with a poop charge as long as it applies to all ages. If you want to make the rule completely enforceable, it should be all kids < a certain age cannot swim, but that should be the rule posted before people book cruises. There is a large amount of vitriol toward children often on these boards.

 

I think many posters need to accept that kids are allowed on the ship, and they will not always be parented the way you like. If you as adults cannot handle that, pick a cruise line that is not notorious for such things occurring.

Edited August 10, 2016 by vacin8r

[First and Ten]

This is an interesting situation. I understand everyone's desire to keep human waste out of the pools and hot tubs, but the rule itself is borderline unenforceable. Yes, of course you can kick a baby out of the pool, but toddlers are different. Some toddlers are potty trained at 2. Others not until 4. My daughter was potty trained at 2.5 and I took her on a cruise after that and still put a swim diaper on her because despite potty training, she is still a kid and I guarantee at least 10 % of the potty trained kids and 5% (both numbers are probably much higher) of the alcohol enhanced adults urinate in the pool and I am trying to avoid as much contaminates entering the pool's water supply as possible. If someone with Carnival told me she cannot be in the pool in a swim diaper (which they never did), I would explain the situation and it would go down very similar to the story in the original post, I would remove the diaper and let her swim.

 

I am taking my toddler boy on a cruise in February and he will be 2.5. As of now he is not potty trained but I am already working on it. If he doesn't get there, then I wont let him swim. I would be fine with a poop charge as long as it applies to all ages. If you want to make the rule completely enforceable, it should be all kids < a certain age cannot swim, but that should be the rule posted before people book cruises. There is a large amount of vitriol toward children often on these boards.

 

I think many posters need to accept that kids are allowed on the ship, and they will not always be parented the way you like. If you as adults cannot handle that, pick a cruise line that is not notorious for such things occurring.

 

Vac, one question if I can....I get that there are never 100% iron clad guarantees, but....If your child was NOT potty trained, would you lie and let him go in the pool anyway?

Edited August 10, 2016 by First and Ten

[rebelcruiser]

I turned in two different people two weeks ago on the Breeze. Idiot parents let their little minions do anything they want.... I refused to get in the pool. I personally would like to see a minimum age of 5 to cruise at all. Would solve a lot of problems. Yes I have two children, but neither cruised until 5 yo.

 

Well your attitude and desire are not going to keep us from continued cruising with our little one. See, there are some people in this world who can manage their offspring and do what is necessary to limit or avoid any bad experiences (pool pooping, screaming fits in the dining room etc.) Common sense and parental effort are key. All depends on the parents and how proactive they want to be. Sadly, most parents today especially younger ones are dumber than the poo that's raised this whole topic.

[vacin8r]

Vac, one question if I can....I get that there are never 100% iron clad guarantees, but....If your child was NOT potty trained, would you lie and let him go in the pool anyway?

 

Definitely not in the pool or hot tub unless he was 90+% trained, ie there, but maybe has a few slip ups while asleep or something.

 

I haven't been on a ship with waterworks so I dont know how they work, but if he was not ever submerged above the knee, I would consider bending the rules.

 

Just trying to be as honest as possible.

[JinxyB]

Swim diapers don't keep urine contained, it's the feces I'm concerned with. They aren't going to shut down the pool or slide because someone peed in it! I'm going to call out any parent allowing their baby or toddler to have free reign in a swim diaper in an area clearly designated not allowed!!

[JMKreno]

Splash parks (no standing water) also seem like they are included in the exclusion ONLY because there are other water features nearby (like slides with standing water). I guarantee there is no difference in how Disney filters their water for their toddler splash park than how Carnival filters their splash parks. The difference is the Disney splash parks don't have anything else in them...just the splash park, no slides, etc. Carnival should have a dedicated splash pad area for kids, and then put the slides separately...wouldn't have been that hard for them to do.

 

I am less concerned with people taking little ones in the splashpark area on the ship than the pool. The swim diaper will keep everything contained if something were to happen and the clean up would be limited to a very small spot if it DID leak out.... I don't really mind people bending that rule honestly....

Edited August 10, 2016 by JMKreno

[MrsGrohl]

Well your attitude and desire are not going to keep us from continued cruising with our little one. See, there are some people in this world who can manage their offspring and do what is necessary to limit or avoid any bad experiences (pool pooping, screaming fits in the dining room etc.) Common sense and parental effort are key. All depends on the parents and how proactive they want to be. Sadly, most parents today especially younger ones are dumber than the poo that's raised this whole topic.

 

What's highlighted in red says it all!!!!

 

Unfortunately the idiot parents ruin it for those of us who actually take responsibility for our children and parent them!!! It's sad, but it's the "me generation" (dear God I'm showing my age). I don't want to generalize and say ALL younger parents are like this, but the vast majority certainly are. I see it in everyday life, not just on vacation.

 

In no way am I saying I'm a perfect parent with perfect little angels because that is laughable!! I do however make sure my children do what is expected of them and are respectful of others as well as the rules.

 

I cruised with my son before he was potty trained and NO I did not put him in the pool. Guess what?! We still managed to have an amazing vacation! :)

[serene56]

I think a big issue, is that the Carnival employees are afraid to tell a customer that they can't do something, because the customer will go to Guest Services and complain about them and then the employee can get in trouble. I saw an employee tell a guest that they weren't allowed to do something and they went right to guest services to tell them how rude the employee was. I had to step in and point out how the guest was breaking the rules and that the employee wasn't rude at all.

 

its not just carnival but sailed recently on Royal and employees did the same there too. Try going to Disney-- those employees always look the other way. Corporations are telling employees to avoid confrontational situations.