Accident on Harmony

[bigeck]

We are now setting sail and heading for Civitavecchia. So there must be enough lifeboats.

 

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Good news. Enjoy the rest of your cruise

[chengkp75]

First, my thoughts and prayers go out to the deceased and injured crew members, as well as their family and friends. It's such a tragedy.

 

I'm confused on the entire scenario around lowering the life boats and people saying there shouldn't be crew members in the boat for drills. In a real emergency, wouldn't there be passengers in the LB as it gets lowered? If so, with the added panic of a real emergency situation and additional lives at stake, wouldn't we want someone that has the hands on experience manning the operation? Also, it sounds like this is not exactly uncommon to have accidents while executing the drills. That is a huge safety concern for the crew members that have to execute the drills. I really hope the cruise lines or SOLAS or who ever the proper agency would be is working on ways to make the entire event safer for everyone.

 

I believe you are referring to my post about having the minimum crew onboard the boat during drills? The minimum crew required by SOLAS for the boat is 3-4 (not sure on these big boats, the "normal" 150 pax ones require 2). Because of the risk of repeated raising and lowering of lifeboats, you want to minimize the risk and have the fewest onboard as required. During lowering, the crew in the boat don't do anything, just sit there. So, there isn't really any "hands on" experience gained while actually lowering or raising the boat. The experience comes when loading the boat, releasing the boat, and driving the boat. There could be some experience gained in handling pax while lowering, but that would require a full boat of crew to be exposed to the risk.

 

The major danger of lifeboat drills (and this is the first or second most common injury to crew) is recovering the boats. Lifeboats are designed to be launched with a minimum of complications, and they are designed to be a one way trip, down and away. Because of the design criteria to be able to get away with minimum complications, this makes the recovery process (reconnecting the falls primarily) a very difficult and dangerous procedure. These systems have been studied and improved over decades, and currently are the best available, but all competent marine agencies, including the IMO recognize the dangers of lifeboat training, and the USCG has put out guidelines for safe drills, but still recognize the danger.

 

Just as a note, the NCL incident was with the "fast rescue boat", not a lifeboat, and in my opinion, the crew should have been following industry best practices and wearing fall arresting gear during training. You take the risk of a wire parting and the boat falling in a real emergency, but for drills you minimize the risk to crew by using protective equipment.

[A&L_Ont]

SOLAS requires 125% of maximum capacity be provided with lifesaving equipment (boats or rafts). The minimum amount of lifeboats required are 37.5% on each side, or 75% of total capacity, which is met by Harmony's 18*370 lifeboats (6660). The remainder of pax and crew may be accommodated in rafts or Marine Evacuation Systems. While the boats on Harmony normally have 16 crew assigned, this is not required, and they could reduce this down to the mandatory 3-4 per boat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because the voyage between Marseilles and Civitavecchia is less than 600 miles, and the ship will not be more than 200 miles from shore, it can be classed as a "short international voyage", and the requirement for total lifesaving capacity reduced from 125% to 100%. Or, they could put crew ashore (if they are at max crewing) to get below the 125% requirement.

 

 

 

Since the Chief mentioned the separate marine evacuation systems I thought I'd post these couple of pictures I snapped on Allure a few weeks ago. Our son thought it looked cool, but in all honesty I'd prefer to never find out.

 

Chief, as always thanks for the nautical information. I hope where ever you are at the seas are calm, the winds are nice, and the work is as smooth as possible.

 

 

 

 

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[steamboats]

Good to hear you´re all sailing again!

 

According to Wikipedia the life boats have 16 crew and 354 pax.

 

The max head count is given with 8,880 people. So 125 % are 11,000. 6,660 are covered by the life boats. The rest is covered by the life rafts. Usually the life rafts are for the crew (which is not dedicated as crew for one of the life boats).

 

With a capacity of 6,372 passengers in all 18 life boats currently all 6,217 would get a seat in a life boat (but not if one is missing). And yes, in case she´s sailing with the max passenger load of 6,780 not all of the passengers do have a seat in a life boat but some of them have to go into a life raft.

 

As said before the Oasis was not allowed to sail with full load of passengers in the beginning when two of the life boats were missing.

 

steamboats

[chengkp75]

Thanks, currently home enjoying the short Maine summer.

 

The chutes work well, but just like liferafts in general, they aren't a lot of fun. Without trained crew assisting with timing the top and bottom of the chute, there have been injuries.

[A&L_Ont]

Thanks, currently home enjoying the short Maine summer.

 

The chutes work well, but just like liferafts in general, they aren't a lot of fun. Without trained crew assisting with timing the top and bottom of the chute, there have been injuries.

 

Even better to hear you are at home.

 

I heard a crew member say one time that they came down too fast as they didn't have their hands out enough to slow them down. They landed on their bum and stated that it hurt a fair amount. For whatever reason I thought it might have been a captain on one of the Mighty Ships episodes.

 

Enjoy your time at home.

[chengkp75]

Even better to hear you are at home.

 

I heard a crew member say one time that they came down too fast as they didn't have their hands out enough to slow them down. They landed on their bum and stated that it hurt a fair amount. For whatever reason I thought it might have been a captain on one of the Mighty Ships episodes.

 

Enjoy your time at home.

 

Yes, as shown in your photos, you are supposed to have your hands out front, and knees bent so that you "interact" with the baffles. The big problem is if you don't clear the people away from the bottom of the chute (they should be going to the other raft, or the corners of this raft), the next poor schlub drops onto them feet first, resulting in some broken arms and collarbones.

[Single Cruiser]

Next time I see Bobby (the cruise director) I'm going to ask if there is a fund donation set up for passengers to donate to the lost crewmans family. I know that Royal will look after them but feel I need to do something as a passenger..

 

 

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[steamboats]

Next time I see Bobby (the cruise director) I'm going to ask if there is a fund donation set up for passengers to donate to the lost crewmans family. I know that Royal will look after them but feel I need to do something as a passenger..

 

Craig, I´m pretty sure they´ve set up some sort of fund donation besides the crew welfare fund for this specific case and I´m pretty sure that fellow crew members are happy to give something too.

 

steamboats

[LissyTx]

So the linked article to that cruise law blog mentions no one or just crew should be in the lifeboat when lowered.

 

In case of a real emergency, how do passengers get in?

 

 

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[chengkp75]

So the linked article to that cruise law blog mentions no one or just crew should be in the lifeboat when lowered.

 

In case of a real emergency, how do passengers get in?

 

 

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No, he said that during lifeboat drills the minimum number of people should be in the boat. I tend to disagree with his "none", but do agree with the minimum required (2-4) as there is the possibility of damage to the boat if no one is inside when the boat reaches the water. I do agree that when raising the boat, there should be no one in the boat. As I've stated, recovery of a lifeboat is an "unusual" act (of design) done on a usual basis, so the risk to crew is far greater when hoisting than lowering. We normally will have the boat crew hook up the boat, and then one boat will come alongside and take the crew off that boat for hoisting. That one boat will gather all the boat crews, drop them at the tender platform, and then hook up. They will be taken off by the rescue boat, and the final lifeboat hoisted. The only crew that should actually be in a boat when hoisting is the rescue boat crew, and they should be in fall arresting gear in case the wire fails as on the NCL ship.

 

The reason you minimize the crew in the boat, is that the crew go down and up in the boat weekly, so they are exposed to a far greater risk of accident. In an emergency, it is already considered a risky situation, so the passengers get in the boat and are lowered. The risk of harm in the boat when lowered once for an emergency is outweighed by the risk of remaining on the vessel, if the Captain has decided it is time to abandon ship.

[Purplerock]

Please pass along the donation info thanks.

 

 

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[Pipo]

That evacuation chute is very dangerous:

 

[YOUTUBE]yVXkm9477w8[/YOUTUBE]

[gagirl7143]

News service reported that it was human error more than likely. So sad

[chengkp75]

News service reported that it was human error more than likely. So sad

 

Not sure what service says this. The French prosecutor says the "cable/fastenings gave way".

[A&L_Ont]

That evacuation chute is very dangerous:

 

[YOUTUBE]yVXkm9477w8[/YOUTUBE]

 

Thats the clip I was referring too. That does not look like fun, but given the option I'd take it.

[RoamingRetirees]

Not sure what service says this. The French prosecutor says the "cable/fastenings gave way".

 

We all know how accurate the news services are. :rolleyes:

[suzyluvs2cruise]

News service reported that it was human error more than likely. So sad

"More than likely" is speculation. It's sad and tragic no matter how it happened.

 

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[bazzerfrog]

Just arrived back at our stateroom to find over $400 back on our account. There is no need for this gesture.

Missing a port over a tragic accident is no big deal.

 

 

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[Single Cruiser]

Just arrived back at our stateroom to find over $400 back on our account. There is no need for this gesture.

Missing a port over a tragic accident is no big deal.

 

 

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Yep they've refunded everyone 1/7th of cruise fare paid as on-board credit

 

 

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[steamboats]

I saw a post from Michael Bayley about a dontation fund on FB (not sure whether this link works). It addresses to employees. For shoreside employees it says you can donate by personal check to the Crew Relief Fund which is administered by the non-profit Miami Foundation. Checks should be made payable to RCL Employee Relief Fund - note "Ariel´s family" on the memo line. The address is:

 

Corporate Responsibility Department

Royal Caribbean Cruises, Ltd.

1050 Caribbean Way, First Floor

Miami, FL 33123 USA

 

steamboats

[Purplerock]

Thanks Carmen

 

 

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[BNL62]

I believe you are referring to my post about having the minimum crew onboard the boat during drills? The minimum crew required by SOLAS for the boat is 3-4 (not sure on these big boats, the "normal" 150 pax ones require 2). Because of the risk of repeated raising and lowering of lifeboats, you want to minimize the risk and have the fewest onboard as required. During lowering, the crew in the boat don't do anything, just sit there. So, there isn't really any "hands on" experience gained while actually lowering or raising the boat. The experience comes when loading the boat, releasing the boat, and driving the boat. There could be some experience gained in handling pax while lowering, but that would require a full boat of crew to be exposed to the risk.

 

The major danger of lifeboat drills (and this is the first or second most common injury to crew) is recovering the boats. Lifeboats are designed to be launched with a minimum of complications, and they are designed to be a one way trip, down and away. Because of the design criteria to be able to get away with minimum complications, this makes the recovery process (reconnecting the falls primarily) a very difficult and dangerous procedure. These systems have been studied and improved over decades, and currently are the best available, but all competent marine agencies, including the IMO recognize the dangers of lifeboat training, and the USCG has put out guidelines for safe drills, but still recognize the danger.

 

Just as a note, the NCL incident was with the "fast rescue boat", not a lifeboat, and in my opinion, the crew should have been following industry best practices and wearing fall arresting gear during training. You take the risk of a wire parting and the boat falling in a real emergency, but for drills you minimize the risk to crew by using protective equipment.

 

Thank you Chengkp75. That's makes a lot more sense if nobody in the LB is actually doing anything to lower it. I appreciate your insight!

[chengkp75]

Thank you Chengkp75. That's makes a lot more sense if nobody in the LB is actually doing anything to lower it. I appreciate your insight!

 

I'll just add some clarifications. While I don't know for sure in this case, most of these accidents happen when hoisting the boat back up. This is when the strain on the cables is maximized, and as I've said, recovering the boat is an "unusual" operation (from the design side) done on a "usual" basis (for training).

 

In normal circumstances, when a boat is lowered either in a drill or in an emergency, there is someone on deck of the ship lowering the boat, since the visibility of the boat crew is limited, especially downwards as to where the boat is in relation to the water. However, the boats are designed to be lowered from inside the boat if needed, and all this requires is the coxswain to pull down on a handle attached by wire to the hoist mechanism. This raises the brake and lowers the boat.

 

Lifeboats are required to be able to be launched with no power on the ship. They are strictly gravity. You raise the brake handle, and the weight of the boat lowers itself. The brake can be set again at any time, and is designed to hold 150% of the weight of boat, passengers, and crew. There is also a centrifugal brake that limits the lowering speed to an acceptable speed.