Trying to Charge for Everything?

[cruizinwithkids]

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BirdTravels

Blue Ribbon Cruiser

 

Join Date: Apr 2015

Location: USA

Posts: 3,174

 

Norwegian Dawn New England 9/9/16 metrics

Total Passengers: 1644

Non-US Passengers: 637

Passengers Under 21: 16

Average Age: 65.4

 

Older crowd. Better dressed than Caribbean passengers. No coat required unless you feel you need one. Lots of polo shirts at dinner. Some suits.

 

Dawn can take 2340 passengers .

 

 

 

.

 

How do you get this information? I always like statistics like this.

 

Years ago, a friend of mine worked for NCL, in a managment position on a ship. At the beginning of the cruise they were given the number that the ship needed to generate in revenue. Departments were assigned different amounts. There would be meetings during the week to see if departments were meeting their targets and targets would be adjusted. I assume that the on-board revenue needed today is significantly less than it used to be.

[biker@sea]

I don't think I questioned the number of passengers on the cruise that was reported, what I question is the break even point. Do you know how many passengers the Dawn must carry to start making money? Do you know out of the 1,644 if they spent more or less than a normal cruise? A lot of things have to be taken into consideration in order to make the assumption that a ship is not hitting that sweet spot that they need to make a profit. Would a cruise line love it if all their ships sailed full, but in reality they know exactly how many passengers they need and it is a different figure then how many they want. If someone knows these figures, it would be very interesting.

 

I'm on the Dawn in December and I would love for the ship to be less then full, but I never seem to get those cruises.

 

My post refuted this post

 

Originally Posted by SheehanDJ

The simple fact is that they are filling up their ships

 

 

" Fact is" they are not filling all the ships.

 

 

I said nothing about NCL's P/L margin.

 

 

.

Edited September 25, 2016 by biker@sea

[yuccaman]

Your post contains many inaccuracies and what you state "They do reserve the right to deny the claim" is a pure outright lie.

NCL could not have made it actually more easier to remove the DISCRETIONARY Daily Service Charge, call it whatever you want: tips, gratuity etc...

PLEASE do not dish out misinformation, if you are misinformed or ignorant of NCL's official policy, it is best that you do not respond at all rather than respond with INCORRECT information or worse yet, lie.

Please post NCL documentation to support your assertion that NCL "reserve the right to deny the claim".

From my side I will post ONLY facts and also attach an OFFICIAL NCL document which proves "NCL would be happy to process a refund for the amount you wish to have credited".

 

Here is the EASY-PEASY procedure for having these DISCRETIONARY service charges removed:

Go to the Passenger Services Desk and ask to have all the DISCRETIONARY Daily Service charges removed.

They give you a form, on my last cruise which was only last week, my form was numbered 67 (this number is linked to your shipboard account) which indicates that were 66 other passengers before me who removed these DISCRETIONARY service charges. Once you get home, fill the form out, scan it and email it to NCL as an attachment to the email address listed on the form. NCL WILL refund you any amount you wish to have refunded back to the same credit card you had originally used to establish your onboard account during your cruise.

 

I have ALWAYS and without fail received my refunds within 5 weeks of submitting my request. Naturally, last week's request is still being processed by NCL so it will be approximately another 4 weeks or so until I see my refund.

Here is NCL's official request form from my cruise last week:

 

FORM # 067

 

Dear Valued Guest:

 

We are sorry to hear that you are unhappy with the service provided to you by our crew members and that we were unable to resolve your concerns through our guest satisfaction program. Our top priority is to work to resolve any guest issues when they occur, to everyone’s complete satisfaction.

 

If you would like to proceed with adjusting your service charges according to the level of inconvenience caused, we would be happy to process a refund for the amount that you wish to have credited. In order to do so, please complete this form and email it to:

 

ServiceCharges@ncl com

 

To process the adjustment we kindly ask you to provide us with the following information,

 

Sail Date:

 

Guest Name (s): Cruise Reservation Number. Reason for Adjustment:

 

 

Adjustment Amount:

 

 

Please send your form within 30 days after the end of your cruise.

Please note that we cannot accept refund requests received outside of this period.

 

 

ALL SERVICE CHARGE ADJUSTMENTS WILL BE PROCESSED WITHIN 3 WEEKS OF RECEIPT.

______________________________________________________________

 

 

On Tuesday I will be boarding the Jewel in Vancouver to Los Angeles and I plan to do this again. When NCL makes these service charges mandatory, I will pony up and pay them, as long as they are DISCRETIONARY, I will continue to choose to remove them, period!

 

 

SO, given the information asked for on the form, since removal of the tips are in the context of "bad service", not only are you treating your service-givers out of their SALARY (because tipped customer-forward positions are paid around $2/day or less. This point is not arguable, look around the threads, myself and others have posted extensively about the practices around this), but you are also writing a BAD EMPLOYMENT REVIEW about them!... causing them to not only receive bad ratings, but to be denied better assignments, promotions, etc? Wow. (And then you're CELEBRATING the fact that they won't know who did it!)

 

GOOD GOING. I hope you can sleep well at night. It's one thing to write a bad employment review and deny income due to BAD service, but for those who do this out of being cheapskates, or out of ignorance, not realizing that this is THEIR ENTIRE INCOME, and NOT a tip over and above their income like in land-based tips, it's just sad.

 

Why do you think they've gone to this system of collecting these? Because 1) under the old honor system too many people skipped out 2) because under the more lenient pre-collected system it was too easy to opt-out... so they put in this system where you have to request after the fact, but I guess this is evidence that those who want to cheat servers out of their income will go to any extreme.

 

As they say, "If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to cruise". And this is from someone who has been through some really, really, bad times these last few years, so I'm not speaking out of a position of affluence.

Edited September 25, 2016 by yuccaman

[wdsted]

I am in no way an expert on cruises. I prefer all inclusive hotels and I now know why. We recently booked NCL, travel agent quoted a price of approx $1340 pp. We are now at over $3100 total before we have stepped on the ship. The free unlimited drink package cost over $200 in taxes and gratuities. The free dining package cost over $120 in taxes and gratuities. The mandatory additional gratuities are almost $200.00. I in no way object to gratuities. I tip all inclusive staff to the point that they follow me around. What I don't understand is I have to pay upfront charges on free packages and then I have to pay gratuities again on top of the gratuities I paid in advance. Now I hear the grill near the pool has been converted to a SDP restaurant on our sailing. I think I am sticking to land after this.

 

 

Simple solutions to your problems:

 

Don't choose the drinks package if your total cost of alcohol will be less than $200

 

Don't choose upgraded dining if you don't think upgraded meals are worth the price. BTW, our service fee for the dining package is always about $24 pp, so I don't understand how you're arriving at $120.

 

Request a refund of the discretionary service fee after the cruise.

 

Alternatively, you could avoid NCL.

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

[LMaxwell]

SO, given the information asked for on the form, since removal of the tips are in the context of "bad service", not only are you treating your service-givers out of their SALARY (because tipped customer-forward positions are paid around $2/day or less. This point is not arguable, look around the threads, myself and others have posted extensively about the practices around this), but you are also writing a BAD EMPLOYMENT REVIEW about them!... causing them to not only receive bad ratings, but to be denied better assignments, promotions, etc? Wow.

 

GOOD GOING. I hope you can sleep well at night. It's one thing to write a bad employment review and deny income due to BAD service, but for those who do this out of being cheapskates, or out of ignorance, not realizing that this is THEIR ENTIRE INCOME, and NOT a tip over and above their income like in land-based tips, it's just sad.

 

Why do you think they've gone to this system of collecting these? Because 1) under the old honor system too many people skipped out 2) because under the more lenient pre-collected system it was too easy to opt-out... so they put in this system where you have to request after the fact, but I guess this is evidence that those who want to cheat servers out of their income will go to any extreme.

 

As they say, "If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to cruise". And this is from someone who has been through some really, really, bad times these last few years, so I'm not speaking out of a position of affluence.

 

"Service Fine. Left cash instead. Do not want charges on my card"

[cruzsnooze]

I am in no way an expert on cruises. I prefer all inclusive hotels and I now know why. We recently booked NCL, travel agent quoted a price of approx $1340 pp. We are now at over $3100 total before we have stepped on the ship. The free unlimited drink package cost over $200 in taxes and gratuities. The free dining package cost over $120 in taxes and gratuities. The mandatory additional gratuities are almost $200.00. I in no way object to gratuities. I tip all inclusive staff to the point that they follow me around. What I don't understand is I have to pay upfront charges on free packages and then I have to pay gratuities again on top of the gratuities I paid in advance. Now I hear the grill near the pool has been converted to a SDP restaurant on our sailing. I think I am sticking to land after this.

You can remove the gratuities via a form they will give you at guest services. I had the specialty dining for all seven nights which included gratuity so thought how greedy to charge me twice for dining by adding that NON mandatory second daily gratuity so had it removed when I got home via their form. I gave breakfast and lunch a cash tip and tipped my cabin steward in cash.

[ducklite]

Karma says that during reincarnation, cheapskates who remove tips will come back as dishwashers on whatever cruise line treats their crew the worst, and stay there for the rest of eternity.

[LMaxwell]

Karma says that during reincarnation, cheapskates who remove tips will come back as dishwashers on whatever cruise line treats their crew the worst, and stay there for the rest of eternity.

 

But everyone loves the crew and gives them wooden nickles and knit hats

[Crown Vic]

Despite where I live (and Chelsea FC are not in Chelsea BTW - they are just in Fulham), I am not really a soccer fan but, if I follow a team (apart from England), it is the Gunners:D.

 

Steve, could tell you were a discerning person of good taste. Cheers!

[steership]

.....Why do you think they've gone to this system of collecting these? Because 1) under the old honor system too many people skipped out 2) because under the more lenient pre-collected system it was too easy to opt-out... so they put in this system where you have to request after the fact, but I guess this is evidence that those who want to cheat servers out of their income will go to any extreme.

 

 

The new procedure to remove the DISCRETIONARY charges on your account is much, Much, MUCH easier and simpler to deal with......Takes all of 5 minutes at the Passenger Services Desk (just for them to hand you the request form) and maybe another 5 minutes at home to fill out, scan and email the form.

[yuccaman]

"Service Fine. Left cash instead. Do not want charges on my card"

 

Yes, I've done that at the desk, under the "cancel at the desk" system. And I always made clear as to why I was cancelling, and it was only because I tipped approx double in cash.

I was addressing those who withhold and don't tip at all!

Edited September 25, 2016 by yuccaman

[ducklite]

But everyone loves the crew and gives them wooden nickles and knit hats

 

 

 

Don't forget the cheap chocolates which have melted in the suitcase in transit.

[AtlantaCruiser72]

Your post contains many inaccuracies and what you state "They do reserve the right to deny the claim" is a pure outright lie.

NCL could not have made it actually more easier to remove the DISCRETIONARY Daily Service Charge, call it whatever you want: tips, gratuity etc...

PLEASE do not dish out misinformation, if you are misinformed or ignorant of NCL's official policy, it is best that you do not respond at all rather than respond with INCORRECT information or worse yet, lie.

Please post NCL documentation to support your assertion that NCL "reserve the right to deny the claim".

From my side I will post ONLY facts and also attach an OFFICIAL NCL document which proves "NCL would be happy to process a refund for the amount you wish to have credited".

 

Here is the EASY-PEASY procedure for having these DISCRETIONARY service charges removed:

Go to the Passenger Services Desk and ask to have all the DISCRETIONARY Daily Service charges removed.

They give you a form, on my last cruise which was only last week, my form was numbered 67 (this number is linked to your shipboard account) which indicates that were 66 other passengers before me who removed these DISCRETIONARY service charges. Once you get home, fill the form out, scan it and email it to NCL as an attachment to the email address listed on the form. NCL WILL refund you any amount you wish to have refunded back to the same credit card you had originally used to establish your onboard account during your cruise.

 

I have ALWAYS and without fail received my refunds within 5 weeks of submitting my request. Naturally, last week's request is still being processed by NCL so it will be approximately another 4 weeks or so until I see my refund.

Here is NCL's official request form from my cruise last week:

 

FORM # 067

 

Dear Valued Guest:

 

We are sorry to hear that you are unhappy with the service provided to you by our crew members and that we were unable to resolve your concerns through our guest satisfaction program. Our top priority is to work to resolve any guest issues when they occur, to everyone’s complete satisfaction.

 

If you would like to proceed with adjusting your service charges according to the level of inconvenience caused, we would be happy to process a refund for the amount that you wish to have credited. In order to do so, please complete this form and email it to:

 

ServiceCharges@ncl com

 

To process the adjustment we kindly ask you to provide us with the following information,

 

Sail Date:

 

Guest Name (s): Cruise Reservation Number. Reason for Adjustment:

 

 

Adjustment Amount:

 

 

Please send your form within 30 days after the end of your cruise.

Please note that we cannot accept refund requests received outside of this period.

 

 

ALL SERVICE CHARGE ADJUSTMENTS WILL BE PROCESSED WITHIN 3 WEEKS OF RECEIPT.

______________________________________________________________

 

 

On Tuesday I will be boarding the Jewel in Vancouver to Los Angeles and I plan to do this again. When NCL makes these service charges mandatory, I will pony up and pay them, as long as they are DISCRETIONARY, I will continue to choose to remove them, period!

 

I am well aware of how the process is SUPPOSED to work. While the norm may be for it to be auto approved I am currently dealing with two upset clients who followed the above process and are now well over 7+ weeks post submission with no reimbursement. They, like many others on these boards, prefer to tip in cash for service as rendered. NCL Corporate guest relations is stating that the submissions are "under review by management" as there was no record of service complaints being lodged on the ship, nor notation at time of request for the reimbursement form that there had been service issues. So just because the vast majority of passengers who opt to submit for post-cruise reimbursement are passed through with ease, does not mean all are. This may be an isolated incident, but it does highlight my point that submission of the form does not AUTOMATICALLY mean that a reimbursement will be made in all cases.

 

P.S. - STEERSHIP - Thanks for the personal attack and calling me a liar, greatly appreciated! I was speaking from my experiences (as a travel agent) with this matter, which may or may not reflect the norm. I tend to only hear about things post cruise when a client has issues and can only post based on what I have encountered first hand.

Edited September 25, 2016 by AtlantaCruiser72

[kathybelcher2433]

I am well aware of how the process is SUPPOSED to work. While the norm may be for it to be auto approved I am currently dealing with two upset clients who followed the above process and are now well over 7+ weeks post submission with no reimbursement. They, like many others on these boards, prefer to tip in cash for service as rendered. NCL Corporate guest relations is stating that the submissions are "under review by management" as there was no record of service complaints being lodged on the ship, nor notation at time of request for the reimbursement form that there had been service issues. So just because the vast majority of passengers who opt to submit for post-cruise reimbursement are passed through with ease, does not mean all are. This may be an isolated incident, but it does highlight my point that submission of the form does not AUTOMATICALLY mean that a reimbursement will be made in all cases.

 

 

Perhaps that 7 weeks gives NCL the time to check with the servers, etc. to determine if they in fact did receive cash tips from the guests.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[Sissaaaaaa]

Perhaps that 7 weeks gives NCL the time to check with the servers, etc. to determine if they in fact did receive cash tips from the guests.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

Oh for pete's sake ... :rolleyes:

[biker@sea]

I am well aware of how the process is SUPPOSED to work. While the norm may be for it to be auto approved I am currently dealing with two upset clients who followed the above process and are now well over 7+ weeks post submission with no reimbursement. They, like many others on these boards, prefer to tip in cash for service as rendered. NCL Corporate guest relations is stating that the submissions are "under review by management" as there was no record of service complaints being lodged on the ship, nor notation at time of request for the reimbursement form that there had been service issues. So just because the vast majority of passengers who opt to submit for post-cruise reimbursement are passed through with ease, does not mean all are. This may be an isolated incident, but it does highlight my point that submission of the form does not AUTOMATICALLY mean that a reimbursement will be made in all cases.

 

P.S. - STEERSHIP - Thanks for the personal attack and calling me a liar, greatly appreciated! I was speaking from my experiences (as a travel agent) with this matter, which may or may not reflect the norm. I tend to only hear about things post cruise when a client has issues and can only post based on what I have encountered first hand.

 

 

Real nice way for a newbe ( or old troll with a new face ) to start out. :rolleyes:

[AtlantaCruiser72]

Perhaps that 7 weeks gives NCL the time to check with the servers, etc. to determine if they in fact did receive cash tips from the guests.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

I somehow doubt that, though that is a nice optimistic way of looking at things :D

 

There may be more to the situation than NCL are telling me - it was for two cabins for a family of 4 on the same sailing together and both cabins submitted for full reimbursement of the DSC. NCL has not given me a valid reason WHY they have delayed the claim/reimbursement, just that it is "under review by management" and that these DSC refund requests are handled on a "case by case" basis - their words. Their Corporate guest relations department can be a challenge to work with on a good day, and they are refusing to escalate me, or the client, to the mysterious manager who is "reviewing" the request.

[AtlantaCruiser72]

Real nice way for a newbe ( or old troll with a new face ) to start out. :rolleyes:

 

Who you calling an "Old Troll" Willis??? hehehehehehe :D

 

I have thick skin, and I found the whole response to my post rather amusing, but at the same time wanted to post my experience, as a travel agent, that things do not always go as smoothly as Steership has had experience with.

 

Lets think back to all the folks affected by the ship redeployments earlier this year, and the delayed sailing of the POA post drydock and how some got reimbursed right away, easy peesy, and some it took months, and months to get reimbursed. NCL is hardly consistent with how it handles reimbursement!!!

[NLH Arizona]

I am well aware of how the process is SUPPOSED to work. While the norm may be for it to be auto approved I am currently dealing with two upset clients who followed the above process and are now well over 7+ weeks post submission with no reimbursement. They, like many others on these boards, prefer to tip in cash for service as rendered. NCL Corporate guest relations is stating that the submissions are "under review by management" as there was no record of service complaints being lodged on the ship, nor notation at time of request for the reimbursement form that there had been service issues. So just because the vast majority of passengers who opt to submit for post-cruise reimbursement are passed through with ease, does not mean all are. This may be an isolated incident, but it does highlight my point that submission of the form does not AUTOMATICALLY mean that a reimbursement will be made in all cases.

 

P.S. - STEERSHIP - Thanks for the personal attack and calling me a liar, greatly appreciated! I was speaking from my experiences (as a travel agent) with this matter, which may or may not reflect the norm. I tend to only hear about things post cruise when a client has issues and can only post based on what I have encountered first hand.

First off, thanks for posting facts.

 

I think all comments like this (in red above) from NCL corporate is going to do, is have those who just don't want to pay put in a false report when they pick up their form and that, as has been reported, will have an impact on that particular crew member or their team.

 

As much as I understand the reasons why NCL doesn't make the DSC mandatory, I'm changing my stance and feel that they should, because not only will it end folks from deleting it, just because they don't want to pay it, but will end DSC threads.

[csopi]

Perhaps that 7 weeks gives NCL the time to check with the servers, etc. to determine if they in fact did receive cash tips from the guests.

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

 

Perhaps for 7 weeks they use your money which collects interest and everybody else's on the 14 ships they own.

Every little bit helps.

Then again I have no interest in cancelling, so far, for perhaps one or two isolated cases the service on all ships I have cruised on was excellent, wish the airlines would learn from them.

[LMaxwell]

As much as I understand the reasons why NCL doesn't make the DSC mandatory, I'm changing my stance and feel that they should, because not only will it end folks from deleting it, just because they don't want to pay it, but will end DSC threads.

 

When you can guarantee service issues onboard will be resolved to guest satisfaction, then I'd be right there with you.

[NLH Arizona]

When you can guarantee service issues onboard will be resolved to guest satisfaction, then I'd be right there with you.

Well, if folks only removed or reduced it when there was a service issue, instead of just not wanting to pay it, I'd be right there with you.

[SNJCruisers]

Thanks for the correction. More reason not to want the beverage package.

14.22 per day to drink as much as you would like. It's a no brainer if you choose to imbibe frequently and the occasional drinker is ahead with 2 beers or 2 glasses of wine or one frozen drink and a soda. The UBP only makes no sense for those teetotallers or for those who are friends of Bill.

 

Sent from my XT1254 using Forums mobile app

[LMaxwell]

Well, if folks only removed or reduced it when there was a service issue, instead of just not wanting to pay it, I'd be right there . Until the guest can be guaranteed of service issues being resolved the current system is fine. If some abuse the system that's the price to pay. You're trying to legitimize poor service not being addressed. Sad!

[csopi]

Well, if folks only removed or reduced it when there was a service issue, instead of just not wanting to pay it, I'd be right there . Until the guest can be guaranteed of service issues being resolved the current system is fine. If some abuse the system that's the price to pay. You're trying to legitimize poor service not being addressed. Sad!

 

 

You are right poor service should be addressed.

How do you address entitled, belligerent and rude guests that think they can treat the crew as if they were their personal employees.

I am sure a lot of them will be filing these forms.