Jews--Consider avoiding sailing with celebrity over the High Holidays

[wombatjoey]

I find this whole topic just embarrassing. Where in the world does one have the "hutzbah" to think that a cruise line should cater to any faith, belief, indulgence, ideology of any particular group.

 

I want Celebrity to keep it as far from religious overtones of any kind as possible. No special services for any group. That is a personal matter so keep it personal. Do whatever you do in your own home, dont inflict it on others.

 

If you want immersion in a particular ideology/faith, you can expect it in a country of its predominance. Not on a ship where we are all from different backgrounds and faiths or no faiths.

 

And then there is Hypocrisy.

 

I overheard someone on the last cruise complain that they could not find a prayer room, that it needed to be more prominent or how about this one....

One couple complained that the services were conducted not by a real person but a Video. All insisted that they were being slighted and wanted compensation.

 

Celebrity, please keep ships secular.

[Fish Lover]

I will side with the OP.

 

As others have pointed out, Jewish holidays start at sundown the night before the actual day. It is a natural expectation that if a Rabbi was on board that there would be an evening service even if it was embarkation day.

 

And as the following post shows, even the Rabbi was surprised that he could not conduct the service he was hired by Celebrity to conduct.

 

You are making an assumption that the rabbi was hired by Celebrity. Why exactly should anyone expect religious services on a cruise?

[Fish Lover]

I find this whole topic just embarrassing. Where in the world does one have the "hutzbah" to think that a cruise line should cater to any faith, belief, indulgence, ideology of any particular group.

 

I want Celebrity to keep it as far from religious overtones of any kind as possible. No special services for any group. That is a personal matter so keep it personal. Do whatever you do in your own home, dont inflict it on others.

 

If you want immersion in a particular ideology/faith, you can expect it in a country of its predominance. Not on a ship where we are all from different backgrounds and faiths or no faiths.

 

And then there is Hypocrisy.

 

I overheard someone on the last cruise complain that they could not find a prayer room, that it needed to be more prominent or how about this one....

One couple complained that the services were conducted not by a real person but a Video. All insisted that they were being slighted and wanted compensation.

 

Celebrity, please keep ships secular.

 

Very well said...and seconded!

[casper106]

And what about those people who follow other religions? Are cruise lines supposed to make allowances for that too? There's no way I would travel on a cruise on the High Holidays,the holiest days in the Jewish calendar even for secular Jews. There are kosher cruises that strictly adhere to the rules. Passover seders are easily accomodated as mentioned in another post. But if the cruise isn't marketed as kosher,other than the seder meal,I wouldn't expect the cruise to adhere to the many restrictions of the Passover holiday.

 

HAL has a priest on every sailing and there are many faith-based specialty cruises. Many people choose HAL for this reason. Clearly,it's a niche market for them.

 

Frankly,the comments made by the OP leave me with a bad taste.

[beaveh]

I consider celebrity a cruise line ( a very nice one) and in the business of providing lovely cruise holidays. That's it, just lovely holidays. I therefore wouldn't expect it to specially cater for any religious faith as matter of course.

 

Was this cruise specifically advertised as being a special Jewish holy day cruise, featuring organised services ? If so I can see why there may be certain expectations for those services but embarkation day is a very busy day!

[Charles4515]

I will side with the OP.

 

As others have pointed out, Jewish holidays start at sundown the night before the actual day. It is a natural expectation that if a Rabbi was on board that there would be an evening service even if it was embarkation day.

 

And as the following post shows, even the Rabbi was surprised that he could not conduct the service he was hired by Celebrity to conduct.

 

 

As I understand it the cruise lines don't hire the Rabbi. They give clergy a special rate if they do services. That was the case of a Rabbi I met on another cruise line. He didn't get paid or a free cruise. He got big discount.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Edited November 4, 2016 by Charles4515

[Charles4515]

Again I will side with the OP.

 

Celebrity supplied the materials for the service. Someone at Celebrity familiar with the materials would have known how long it takes to go through the materials.

 

Basically, I think what happened is because Celebrity people, both on shore and on the ship, were really not familiar with what this Jewish holy day is about and the amount of time needed to properly conduct the service.

 

It's only a guess, but I bet that the Rabbi had no idea how time limited he would be until he showed up to conduct the morning service.

 

On other cruise lines when Friday night services are held, an hour is scheduled. No person familiar with Rosh Hashanah would have scheduled a service for less than an hour.

 

 

The evening Rosh Hashanah service is a brief service. A half an hour. The morning service is long. Several hours. Three Hours or more. I find it surprising that anyone who is observant would take a cruise during the High Holidays.

 

The OP mentioned that they could have cruised the week before. That should have been what they did.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[GOLDENBONNY]

I'm also Jewish but very secular; however, I don't travel over Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur or Passover because I do observe them. If these holidays were very significant to you, it may have been more sensible to have not travelled during these days. You can't really expect Celebrity to be responsible for providing you with a religious service and meal... That's not their responsibility.

 

100% agree .If it's so important to someone he stay home not go on vacation . Cruise line don't have to provide any religious services they do as a good deed but they don't have to .

[Bo1953]

 

Celebrity, please keep ships secular.

 

w - Rated A+

[El Crucero]

100% agree .If it's so important to someone he stay home not go on vacation . Cruise line don't have to provide any religious services they do as a good deed but they don't have to .

 

Yes, I am completely secular, I believe in the concept of "separation of church and ship."

[OCA REP]

I find this whole topic just embarrassing. Where in the world does one have the "hutzbah" to think that a cruise line should cater to any faith, belief, indulgence, ideology of any particular group.

 

I want Celebrity to keep it as far from religious overtones of any kind as possible. No special services for any group. That is a personal matter so keep it personal. Do whatever you do in your own home, dont inflict it on others.

 

If you want immersion in a particular ideology/faith, you can expect it in a country of its predominance. Not on a ship where we are all from different backgrounds and faiths or no faiths.

 

And then there is Hypocrisy.

 

I overheard someone on the last cruise complain that they could not find a prayer room, that it needed to be more prominent or how about this one....

One couple complained that the services were conducted not by a real person but a Video. All insisted that they were being slighted and wanted compensation.

 

Celebrity, please keep ships secular.

 

^^^ T H I S ! ^^^

 

Well said and to the point. If your religion is so important to you that you cannot enjoy a cruise vacation without it, it would probably be better for you to remain home when these can't miss events take place. I would prefer that Celebrity stay out of the business of religion and stay focused on providing an enjoyable cruise experience.

[Rob the Cruiser]

Yes, and on my last cruise the Satanist rituals were very, very tame. Not even any nudity!

How terrible! You should DEMAND to be given 13 free cruises and $666 OBC!

[anniebea]

^^^ T H I S ! ^^^

 

Well said and to the point. If your religion is so important to you that you cannot enjoy a cruise vacation without it, it would probably be better for you to remain home when these can't miss events take place. I would prefer that Celebrity stay out of the business of religion and stay focused on providing an enjoyable cruise experience.

 

Agree totally !!

[Bo1953]

Yes, I am completely secular, I believe in the concept of "separation of church and ship."

 

EC - Yes, as created by the SCOTUS in 1947.

 

bon voyage

[NLH Arizona]

I will side with the OP.

 

As others have pointed out, Jewish holidays start at sundown the night before the actual day. It is a natural expectation that if a Rabbi was on board that there would be an evening service even if it was embarkation day.

 

And as the following post shows, even the Rabbi was surprised that he could not conduct the service he was hired by Celebrity to conduct.

Since there was a Rabbi and he was already on the ship, I guess I would put the blame on his shoulders. He should have immediately gone to Celebrity and explained how important it was that there be a service the evening of embarkation and all they needed was a room to conduct the service and if he was told no, he should have continued up the ladder of command if it was that important. Since the dallies were already handed out, the ship could have made a few announcements during the day alerting those passengers who were interested.

 

I seriously don't think it is up to Celebrity or any other cruise line to keep track of all the different religious holidays and how they are observed.

[donaldsc]

I belong to the Church of Bacon. I celebrate my beliefs every morning on every cruise I go on.

 

DON

[dread_pirate]

I am also Jewish, and if I cruised during the High Holy Days, I would not expect hours-long services. Rosh Hashanah services are several hours during the day, and unless you are Reform (or Israeli), it is 2 days, not one. Yom Kippur services are even longer, encompassing most of the day.

 

In any event, IMO, cruising on the High Holy Days violates their spirit, which is one of introspection, reflection and repentance. Services won't make up for that.

[Orator]

I belong to the Church of Bacon. I celebrate my beliefs every morning on every cruise I go on.

 

DON

 

Fine as long as your Bacon is Kosher.

[bEwAbG]

As a devoted Pastafarian, Celebrity thankfully provides enthusiastic support of my worship needs, most specifically with their offerings in the Tuscan Grille but also randomly at other establishments on every single day of the year. This level of care is very important for the annual Pastover meal. Most don’t realize that Celebrity converted the bistro to Sushi on 5 specifically in support of the holy month of Ramendan. Considering the company’s ties to the sea, this should not come as a surprise to devout believers, but they are to be commended highly for their enthusiastic and unwavering devotion to the One who boiled for our sins.

[El Crucero]

It might be prudent, when cruising on the high seas, to pay a little homage to Poseidon! Throwing a little grog down the hatch every evening at the Martini Altar sure wouldn't hurt.

[Cuervosar]

How terrible! You should DEMAND to be given 13 free cruises and $666 OBC!

 

10 Points for Slytherin!

[Cuervosar]

As a devoted Pastafarian, Celebrity thankfully provides enthusiastic support of my worship needs, most specifically with their offerings in the Tuscan Grille but also randomly at other establishments on every single day of the year. This level of care is very important for the annual Pastover meal. Most don’t realize that Celebrity converted the bistro to Sushi on 5 specifically in support of the holy month of Ramendan. Considering the company’s ties to the sea, this should not come as a surprise to devout believers, but they are to be commended highly for their enthusiastic and unwavering devotion to the One who boiled for our sins.

 

10 points for Hufflepuff!

[shofer]

Like "Flamencacha" I too am a Catholic. Celebrity promises a Catholic Priest & daily Mass during Lent. Several years ago we sailed on the Silhouette during Lent and there wasn't a Priest onboard. I later learned that only about half the sailings have a Priest. This year we sailed on Reflection. This time we had a Priest onboard. Then I found out that when they promise daily Mass I was wrong to assume that "Daily" didn't mean every "Day". I think they only "allowed" the Priest to offer Mass on sea days. :mad:

 

When we started sailing with Celebrity in 1993, there was a scheduled Mass every day. On my last cruise with them in 2011, no such thing was offered in the schedule.

 

Sue

[cruzeluvr]

. . .In any event, IMO, cruising on the High Holy Days violates their spirit, which is one of introspection, reflection and repentance. Services won't make up for that.

 

I am also Jewish, and although not particularly observant, those were my thoughts exactly! If one is an observant Jew, then taking a cruise that encompasses Rosh Hashanah and the following 10 days leading up to Yom Kippur is certainly not in keeping with the spirit of these days. Frankly, I'm surprised that there was a rabbi on board during that time frame.

[Ox Fan Cruiser]

"Freedom of Church & Ship"

"Church of Bacon"

"one have the "hutzbah" to think that a cruise line should cater to any faith,"

Kids, Kids. Simma down now!

Cruise lines are in business to provide a vacation to their customers. They do this however they see fit. Customers have every right to seek out which ever line provides the services they are looking for. If a customer wants religious services they will seek out a line that provides it. Its a free market. If a line offers these services and it offends you, cruise elsewhere. If a cruise line promotes a "gay" life style and it offends Christians or other Religious groups then they should also avoid that line. Religious views are no different from other views like Pro "this" or anti "that". If a cruise line goes after one market over the other its their choice to do so. If you don't like what they target book you next cruise on another line...

 

Oh, BO1953, how does "EC - Yes, as created by the SCOTUS in 1947." have ANYTHING to do with a ship in international waters and not flying a USA flag????

Edited November 4, 2016 by Ox Fan Cruiser