Smoking On Your Balcony But Our Vacation!!

[WpgCruise]

I applaud people who advocate for what they believe in, be it smoking issues, environmental issues, social issues.

 

I also believe it is imperative to state facts when putting forth an argument to advance the cause.

 

In this case, to use an example, the Star Princess fire cause has not been determined.

 

The problem with stating the Star Princess fire was caused by smoking leaves the person making the statement at a disadvantage as they may no longer have the credibility needed to sway opinion.

 

E.T.A. Link to the final report by Marine Accident Investigation Branch.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/547c706ae5274a4290000097/Star_Princess.pdf

Edited December 10, 2016 by WpgCruise

[mollyeilis]

Only thing worse than having a smoker on a balcony is a smoker who smells like a dirty damp astray and boards the packed elevator.

 

 

I used to think that was the worst until a smoker joined my yoga class. All is fine until she starts warming up. The coughing starts and then the warmed up now-thirdhand (yes it is a thing...the residue on skin clothes hair etc is not healthy at all...I have a few friends who used to work making chips for Intel and it was easier to just not be a smoker bc if you were you had to fully shower then 100% change clothes underneath the clean uniforms they wore...if thirdhand smoke can damage chips it can damage us) smoke starts wafting through the room. It's awful. My asthmatic* lungs don't like it one little bit.

 

I'm glad she's in yoga. It will help her be healthier. I hope the coughing fits make her realize that she needs to stop. I wish there were a way to talk to her about it.

 

 

*thanks to my mom and dad who were smokers because of their parents and so on.

[mollyeilis]

Op I'm glad your partner is healing up.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Snit13]

Tried to edit some of the information I posted but time to edit had expired.

 

I believe we may have been given some incorrect information by the crew during the 2006 Baltic cruise, post repairs after the fire.

 

I read the report of the fire that was posted by our expert and feel is should be required reading for all balcony smokers. And as I read the report, it still appears that someone's cig.....tossed, was the most likely cause of the destruction.

[Snit13]

I applaud people who advocate for what they believe in, be it smoking issues, environmental issues, social issues.

 

I also believe it is imperative to state facts when putting forth an argument to advance the cause.

 

In this case, to use an example, the Star Princess fire cause has not been determined.

 

The problem with stating the Star Princess fire was caused by smoking leaves the person making the statement at a disadvantage as they may no longer have the credibility needed to sway opinion.

 

E.T.A. Link to the final report by Marine Accident Investigation Branch.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/547c706ae5274a4290000097/Star_Princess.pdf

 

Thanks for posting the final report. I just read it to refresh my memory and it appears that their conclusion was that the fire was most likely casued by a cig..

[wowprincess]

I need to hear from a doctor who can show me where second hand smoke from outside air can cause this. Because I'm disbelieving.

 

Is your partner very obese? If so, it is more likely the ocean/sea distilled water causing fluid retention in the lungs, not second hand outdoor smoke. Talk to a doctor if he's obese because cruising may not be the best idea due to the water on board being desalinated but not 100% salt free. Even the coffee can cause this issue.

 

I took a large buddy on a cruise and he had similar sissies but no medical emergency. He takes a plethora of drugs to control his health issues related to his obesity and two of the pills say no added salt and his doctor told him no cruises due to desalinated water leading to a risk of fluid retention.

 

Smoking in balconies is wrong. Those cruises were a-holes. But I am doubting they put him in a medical situation.

 

I assure you, it can happen. I have severe asthma and smoke will set me off. It only takes a few minutes for it to start effecting me. You can believe anything you want, but just because you can't imagine it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

[riclop]

So sorry you went thru this, this the reason we stopped booking balcony cabins because you never know who your neighbors will be.

[LMaxwell]

Any smoker who smokes in a non-smoking area gives up the ability to pat themselves on the back and label themselves as "considerate".

 

When the problem happened for a second time they should have stopped playing games and looked at how to properly accommodate and / or compensate you. When allowing this to continue costs RCI actual money you will see much stricter enforcement. Sorry for all of the troubles and hard time you had with your husband.

[critterchick]

OP I'm sorry that you had to go through such a nightmare. I was on Sapphire Princess a few years ago and my neighbor was smoking on his balcony as we sailed from LA. I mentioned it to my cabin steward, who had already reported him to the purser's office. He kept smoking and got a visit from an officer, who told him that, upon a third complaint, he would be invited to sail on another line for the rest of his life. No more smoking. RCI needs to adopt the same stance, IMO.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[troykahack]

Just a question, what jurisdiction would the US Congress have over the smoking policy of a foreign flag ship?

 

Leaving from a US Port. Our laws a more lax on smoking than Australia for example.

Edited December 10, 2016 by troykahack

[Thetrail]

Wow, so sorry this happened to you. I think I physically would have went to their cabin. I wouldn't have put up with it. That is just unacceptable. Hope Jim is feeling much better. I just don't get these people who smoke on their balconies. If you're that addicted just stay home.

PHYSICALLY went to their cabin and what?....K.O.:confused:

[chengkp75]

Leaving from a US Port

 

While there might be justification for a smoking ban while in US waters, once outside that justification would end. A real stretch would be to claim jurisdiction in international waters, but certainly not in another country's waters.

 

Typically, "port state" laws are only applied to things that are external to the ship, i.e. air and water pollution, commerce (as far as local taxes, etc.), the "safety and good public order" of the port, things like that. Otherwise, "flag state" law applies. Even in criminal cases, when outside US waters, the US's jurisdiction only applies to US citizens, and only in international waters (in other words, where no one else claims jurisdiction). If you go back and read the transcripts or watch the video of the much vaunted "Cruise Passenger Bill of Rights" hearings in the Senate, you will find the Senators essentially asking the cruise lines what they would accept, because there really is no jurisdiction. CLIA voluntarily agreed to the Bill of Rights.

 

There is a reason that the cruise lines use the flags of Panama and Bahamas, and it is to avoid US regulation. Can the maritime lawyers in Miami get Jones Act protection for foreign crew on ships leaving from the US? They file cases for this all the time, and are never successful. Just because a foreign flag ship calls at a US port does not mean that all US laws apply to the ship, even while in that US port.

[chengkp75]

With regards to Australia, you introduce a whole new wrinkle there. Oz has cabotage laws similar to the PVSA, but they grant foreign flag ships waivers to do business in Oz if no Australian ship provides a similar service. One aspect of the waiver is that Australian crew has to make up at least the majority of the officers and crew (especially the deck/engine departments) and abide by all Australian laws.

[troykahack]

While there might be justification for a smoking ban while in US waters, once outside that justification would end. A real stretch would be to claim jurisdiction in international waters, but certainly not in another country's waters.

 

Typically, "port state" laws are only applied to things that are external to the ship, i.e. air and water pollution, commerce (as far as local taxes, etc.), the "safety and good public order" of the port, things like that. Otherwise, "flag state" law applies. Even in criminal cases, when outside US waters, the US's jurisdiction only applies to US citizens, and only in international waters (in other words, where no one else claims jurisdiction). If you go back and read the transcripts or watch the video of the much vaunted "Cruise Passenger Bill of Rights" hearings in the Senate, you will find the Senators essentially asking the cruise lines what they would accept, because there really is no jurisdiction. CLIA voluntarily agreed to the Bill of Rights.

 

There is a reason that the cruise lines use the flags of Panama and Bahamas, and it is to avoid US regulation. Can the maritime lawyers in Miami get Jones Act protection for foreign crew on ships leaving from the US? They file cases for this all the time, and are never successful. Just because a foreign flag ship calls at a US port does not mean that all US laws apply to the ship, even while in that US port.

 

How does Australia influence Royal to change smoking policies on Ships sailing from their ports?? Do all their cruises remain in their waters??

[Thetrail]

Look, people should continue to complain. Best to start writing you Congress Person. We now have a Congress and WH run by one party.

 

I have already sent letter to all, to make it law, all ships sailing from US Ports should be non smoking..... (Regulation I know, but it will save money)

you have zero chance of that happening and your wasting your time writing your congressman with this issue?....K.O....:rolleyes:

[chengkp75]

How does Australia influence Royal to change smoking policies on Ships sailing from their ports?? Do all their cruises remain in their waters??

 

As stated above, in obtaining a waiver, RCI essentially agrees to make the ship, temporarily, a "de facto" Australian flag ship, if not "de jure".

[troykahack]

As stated above, in obtaining a waiver, RCI essentially agrees to make the ship, temporarily, a "de facto" Australian flag ship, if not "de jure".

 

We posted a comment about the same time. I can't delete it now.

[sparks1093]

This is what happens when someone just doesn't care about the rules. I think that it would have been appropriate for them to have been disembarked but obviously the staff felt differently (it may not even be an option). DW suffers from asthma and I recently had part of a lung removed for cancer (from my own stupid mistake of smoking for too many years) so we do try to avoid smoke at all costs.

[xcell]

Sorry to hear about your experience...

 

There are rules on the ship -- so not sure why your ship neighbors could not follow it.

 

What's the point of having a balcony if you cannot enjoy it...

 

Hope your husband is doing well...

[lucymorgan]

As stated above, in obtaining a waiver, RCI essentially agrees to make the ship, temporarily, a "de facto" Australian flag ship, if not "de jure".

 

 

Interesting!

 

I am an ex smoker (gave up 20 years ago) - I'm happy to be free of the curse and expense of smoking. It is very expensive to buy cigarettes here now. I don't mind anyone else smoking as long as they respect non-smoker's rights.

 

Most people in Oz are used to and appreciate our non-smoking laws and I suspect there would be a strong commercial interest (and plenty of competition now) for RCI to comply if they want their share of the Oz market :)

[Roce48]

Please don't crucify me but...

 

I do think that if there is a non-smoking policy on balconies, that it should be enforced.

 

But...

 

I am a smoker that does not smoke on our balconies, and do understand that cigarette smoke is not pleasant to most non-smokers. But just because there is the smell of smoke coming from somewhere, I have to wonder just how much of that smell actually carries the carcinogenics that hurt people. If you smell cigarette smoke on me doesn't mean carcinogens will jump off me. :p

 

I feel bad that the OP's husband has such a critical health problem that is set off by just the smell of smoke.

 

Smoking is not illegal, and we pay good money, therefore feel we should have an area to smoke in decent out of the elements designated areas.

[Aquahound]

While there might be justification for a smoking ban while in US waters...

 

Even that would be a stretch. I don't see how the federal government could enact a law specific to cruise ship smoking, especially in the outdoor spaces. Cruise ships aren't federal property. If anything, it would be the individual states who would have the power, not the federal government. And even then, that jurisdiction is only good for 3 miles (9 miles in some cases).

[Merion_Mom]

Please don't crucify me but...

 

I do think that if there is a non-smoking policy on balconies, that it should be enforced.

 

But...

 

I am a smoker that does not smoke on our balconies, and do understand that cigarette smoke is not pleasant to most non-smokers. But just because there is the smell of smoke coming from somewhere, I have to wonder just how much of that smell actually carries the carcinogenics that hurt people. If you smell cigarette smoke on me doesn't mean carcinogens will jump off me. :p

 

I feel bad that the OP's husband has such a critical health problem that is set off by just the smell of smoke.

 

Smoking is not illegal, and we pay good money, therefore feel we should have an area to smoke in decent out of the elements designated areas.

 

There is no "if"

 

Smoking is banned in all cabins and on all cabin balconies on all Royal Caribbean ships.

 

That is the relevant point.

[troykahack]

There is no "if"

 

Smoking is banned in all cabins and on all cabin balconies on all Royal Caribbean ships.

 

That is the relevant point.

 

We have found our common ground.....:D

[travelgoddess1]

Yes, another thread about smoking! But I wanted to let people know what can and did happen when we had neighbors smoking on their balcony.

 

We just returned last night from a short (5 day) cruise on the Independence. This was a cruise I had booked for my partners birthday as a surprise. To make extra special I had booked a GS.

 

The cabin was beautiful and I may have made a mistake because Jim is always going to want a suite now and I can't afford to cruise like that on every cruise.

 

Anyway. We are experienced cruisers and know the things to make our cruises great. The first day on board we got to our cabin about 1:00 and went out on our balcony to watch the work being done on the dock. Immediately we notice someone smoking one deck down and one cabin forward and someone in the suite next to us (forward). We have had people smoking on boarding day before and know what to do so we left our balcony closed the door and I called Guest Services and complained. In the past this always solved the problem. Not so lucky this time.

 

Later that evening we went out to find our next door neighbors smoking again. I said something about smoking not being allowed on balconies to my partner loud enough for our neighbors to hear and left our balcony but had a smell of smoke in our cabin. We got ready for dinner and left to go the CL and DL before dinner. As we were leaving we told our cabin steward about the smoking. He assured us he would tell the deck supervisor and someone would talk the smokers.

 

The next day was a sea and we spent the day around the ship and enjoying our down time. I did notice a smoke smell outside the couple of time we were on our balcony. I wasn't sure where it was coming from, next door or the cabin below us who had been smoking the day before. We decided to just let it ride but did mention to the concierge someone in our area was smoking but not sure exactly sure where.

 

The next morning at 6:00am I smelled smoke when I went out on our balcony again. I wasn't sure if it was our next door neighbors or the people below. Closed the balcony again and stopped at Guest Services to report the problem on the way to my workout. They noted that I had complained before and our neighbors had been warned. Guest services promised they would address the problem. Later at breakfast we meet the people two cabins forward of us and found out they had also complained about the smoking by our neighbors. I felt reassured that I wasn't just being "one of those people" who constantly complains. We left the ship for our day in Cozumel and enjoy a beach day. I did notice that Jim seemed tired and his breathing was a little labored. Yes, Jim has some pulmonary problems that usually are not a problem but can go bad quickly so I kept a close eye on him. Jim only ate salad and fruit and had no alcohol on our beach day because we know salt and alcohol can make things worse if thing start going south for him. By the end of our beach day Jim seemed better as we headed back to the ship. Back in our room out on our balcony the smell of smoke again! We got off the balcony and decided to go to the DL to spend time on the balcony there to get away from the smoke. I stopped at the CL to complain yet again. The concierge, Felix, again noted there had been numerous complainants by people about the smoking and they would talk to our neighbor again. At the end of our night again the smell of smoke on our balcony and in our room from us opening our door with the smoke outside. That night I noticed Jim's breathing becoming more labored but he assured me he was okay and upped some of his meds.

 

The next morning at 6:00 am I'm out on the balcony and hear our neighbors come out and light up. I look around the divider and confirm that yes they are smoking. Really, still! I checked on Jim who is still sleeping and sounding more rattled with his breathing. I'm off to my workout and then stopped at the CL after to talk to Felix about the smoking problem. He checks and tells me our smokers have been warned by phone, by the deck supervisor, and by letter. Said he would let Guest Service know yet again. Back at the cabin I wake Jim, who never sleeps this late. Worried about him I ask if he wants to cancel our beach day in Costa Maya. He says he is tired but want go ahead and pushes some extra meds again. At breakfast we ran into our now friend, 2 door forward of us, and they relate that they also smelled the smoke and complained to Guest Services. We are off to our beach day at Maya Chan. Jim is still tired but seem to be getting better as the day goes on although he only sat on the beach. Another day of fruit and salad for lunch and no alcohol. Back on our balcony after our beach day our smoker came out again and lights up. Jim start coughing and the rattles with his breathing are back. I get Jim to take more meds, lay down to rest for awhile, and I'm worried. I'm off to Guest Service and upset. I tell guest service we STILL having problems with smoking and it is affecting Jim's health. They again checked the record and many phone calls are made to the deck supervisor, hotel director, and security while I'm standing there. After 20 minutes they tell me are setting up a meeting with security and our neighbors and they are so sorry. Back at the cabin Jim is starting to struggle with his breathing and I know there is no way we are making it to Chef's Table tonight. I get Jim to again take more meds. I don't want to upset Jim so I run down to talk to Felix about not being able to make it to our dinner. Felix is worried and asks if he should call medical. I tell him I'll let him know. Back at the room Jim is worse and agrees it is time to go to medical. I called Felix and told him to meet us, we are going to medical. He met us at the elevators and expressed down to medical but Jim collapses before we can get off. Medical rushed us in and know this is serious! Quick tests prove what I already knew, Jim's lungs were filling up with fluid and there was fluid around his heart. We are now in a life threatening event. They needed to start IV drugs to try to stop the cascade that Jim was having. Calls were made to bridge to tell them there may be a possible evacuation. I'm now panicked but trying hard not to show it. Bottom line: Luckily the IV drugs worked along with the oxygen Jim they put Jim on. We spend 6 hours in medical and they agree to let us go back to our room only if we promise to come back first thing in the morning for more tests and Jim stays on the oxygen they supplied us with. The doctor told me what saved Jim's life is that we had started the extra drugs before we went to medical. I spent the rest of the night staying awake listening to make sure Jim's breathing was okay.

 

Our last day is a sea day and we were sure to get back to medical to make sure Jim is going to be okay. I am relieved to know the drugs have worked amazing well and Jim will be alright but he needs to spend the day just resting. Not the day we had hoped but I am just glad the crisis has passed. I run into our room steward who is very worried and tells me the whole crew knows what happened and everyone is mad. Our neighbors have been charged a $500 cleaning fee. They don't care, they are smoking! What can RCI do? Our next day we are back in FLL and getting off the ship. He asks us to please not open the balcony door so Mr. Jim does not get sick again. So now Jim needs to rest and we can't even use our balcony.

 

I do find out from Felix that we can get in to Chef's Table on the last night to make up for the night we had to cancel. I ran into our friends on the other side of the smokers and Find out that they ended up canceling the whole Chef's Table Tuesday night because without us there wasn't enough people. So how many people have been affected by these rude smokers?

 

I did talk to the doctor on Wednesday about everything that happened. He told me that even though Jim's problems were most likely caused or contributed by the smoking he couldn't prove it and he has to charge us for the medical treatment. So now we have a $1800 on board medical bill. Not something I planned on. Luckily we have cruise insurance but we still needed to pay and will have to wait to be reimbursed. He did tell me he sent an email to Miami about the whole situation and RCI needs to do something more about the smoking policy. He told me corporate was going to meet with him on Thursday when we got back to port. Who knows what will happen.

 

I do have to say everyone we talked to tried to help and I can't fault the crew. Jim received excellent medical care and I have no doubt they saved his life. The medical crew treated not only Jim but myself great. The doctor spent much time talking to me and even gave me his email so I can report back to him how Jim is doing. He wants to know what Jim regular doctor has to say when he sees Jim today. The doctor let me use his phone to call Jim's regular doctor to make appointment with him before we even left the ship.

 

One last thing. Thursday morning as we were docking I went out on balcony again and there was smoke! As we were leaving one of smoking neighbors was out in the hall railing on our poor room steward about the cleaning fees they had been hit with. No doubt RCI will remove them.

 

First, my sympathy to you for what you and your partner went through. (While we had a similar episode in January, it was not due to smoking, but rather to bronchitis and then pneumonia that my husband contracted the end of our 3rd week on Oasis. I know how scary it is to see a loved one suffering. We spent most of week 4 in the medical facility getting breathing treatments.)

 

Second, do not let this go. I'm sure it has already been suggested (apologies for not reading back 8 pages), but you should speak to both Resolutions and Corporate Relations about your experience. I would ask for reimbursement of your medical fee and a Future Cruise Credit for what you endured, through no fault of your own.

 

Third, RCI bears their share of the blame here. The smokers should have been warned once and put off the ship the second time it happened. And it is NOT your responsibility to police the smokers. We all know what can happen.

 

Best wishes to your partner for a speedy recovery, and congratulations to you for taking good care of him, under very trying circumstances.

Edited December 10, 2016 by travelgoddess1