Passport collection

[untailored bostonian]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3359211/Is-safe-hand-passport-hotel-check-Experts-reveal-risks-holidaymakers.html

 

 

We must always remember we are a guest in their county. The country we visit decides not us.

 

This may be true, and a reason why one might not care to visit that country. They could ask me for my pants too, since it is their country, but in either case I would like to understand the logic in advance.

[Sauer-kraut]

Can anyone tell me of which countries in the EU would require the holding of a passport by a hotel.

I have surrendered it in France and in Croatia (although not in all hotels there). Also in Egypt at a resort stay. In a hotel in Czech Republic. I often wonder if it is done so people can't skip out on the bill..... :evilsmile:

[Sauer-kraut]

Which countries? If it is a matter of information gathering, would a copy of the passport suffice? If not why not?

 

If not, because if needed by authorities a copy is not sufficient as a valid travel document.

[untailored bostonian]

If not, because if needed by authorities a copy is not sufficient as a valid travel document.

 

If the hotel is transcribing data, it should suffice. These "held" documents are not inspected by a custom's official.

 

I would love to have a link to a site with passport information that refers to this holding of passports.

 

As of now Americans do not need a visa to enter the EU. This may change in the near future since the USA will not offer visa free entry to all members of the Schengen Agreement. This is a separate issue but some what related.

 

 

The Schengen Agreement is an EU law that opens it's borders to all EU citizens without a visa needed. SOme of that is informative here. From the US State Dept.

If you are a U.S. citizen with a valid U.S. passport traveling for tourism or business, you can apply to enter the Schengen area without a visa for a period of three months within each six-month period. If you spend three months in the Schengen area during any six-month period, you must wait another three months before you can apply to enter the Schengen area again without a visa. If you do not meet these conditions, or plan to stay in the Schengen area longer than three months, contact the embassy of the country where you plan to spend the majority of your time to apply for a visa.

When you first cross any external border of the Schengen area and present your passport for entry, an immigration official will determine if you qualify for entry into the Schengen area. You may be denied entry if the officer determines you do not qualify for entry. When moving from one Schengen country to another, you do not need to show your passport until you exit the Schengen area. Ensure your passport is stamped upon entry and exit. For additional information on traveling to and within the Schengen area, see our FAQ below.

[garycarla]

Hotel and ship are TOTALLY DIFFERENT issues. Please do not confuse the hotel ID issues with immigration issues.

 

The ship takes it when they have to mass process with immigration officials. They do not take it for their own needs.

 

Some countries allow the ship to do this vs. having everyone line up. Also, you realize that if you enter most countries you have to SHOW your passport in person to immigration officials. In some cases, being on a ship, you get around this.

 

Lots of different rules with lots of different countries.

[untailored bostonian]

From USA Today: "U.S. Passport Limitations in Europe"

 

This says to get your passport stamped entering the EU and then you are done with ID checks within the EU.

[untailored bostonian]

Hotel and ship are TOTALLY DIFFERENT issues. Please do not confuse the hotel ID issues with immigration issues.

 

This is clear, though I do not like the idea of a 3rd party holding my passport. It is easy to see how a countries custom officials could process 2000 to 5000 pax faster if they were all collected, but that offers those countries 0% more safety. They never see if a face matches the passport. By now I would think a digital system could replace the need for this type of entry procedures. But on a port heavy cruise entering multiple jurisdictions I can see the advantages.

 

At the hotels it make no sense unless we have the cold-war attempt to intimidate the traveler.

 

 

I have found no country where the holding of a passport by the hotel in required by law. I have only found evidence of a need to record the passport's data. Would you let a hotel employee to keep your credit card until you checked out?

[KeithJenner]

It's been quite a few years since I've been in a European hotel where they have asked to hold our passports. Literally decades.

 

It is not at all rare to be asked to see it. I am actually typing this from a hotel in Versailles and they asked to see my passport or other official document. I showed them my driving licence.

 

I'd say that about one in three hotels asks to view our passports. It happens rarely enough to suggest that it isn't required in most countries and is actually used by the hotels themselves, probably for identification.

 

I'm pretty sure I've had to show my passport in US hotels as well.

[hawkeyetlse]

This says to get your passport stamped entering the EU and then you are done with ID checks within the EU.

That's not exactly what it says. Schengen means that there are normally no ID checks for anyone, even if you didn't get your passport stamped. Anyway, how would they know your passport was stamped unless they performed a passport check on you?

 

ID checks can be reinstated within Schengen at any time at the discretion of each member state. For example, France has been in a state of emergency ever since the Bataclan attack in November 2015, which means that you may be asked to show your passport even for travel to/from another Schengen country. This is almost systematic for air travel. However, on the cruises that I have taken since then, the French authorities have not required passengers calling in French ports to go through immigration or to have their passports collected by the ship and inspected in absentia. But they could decide to start doing this at any moment, and so can any of the Schengen countries.

 

In the same way, cruises that exit and re-enter Schengen (for example if they stop in Morocco, Montenegro, etc.) may require passports to be presented for re-entry (whether in person or en masse). Technically speaking they should, but they often do not. Cruise ships are currently seen by most countries as low risk, and they choose to allocate their border protection resources elsewhere. And at some level they probably recognize that going through a bunch of passports without a face-to-face interview doesn't serve a very useful purpose. At the same time, I wouldn't say it's "0% more safety". At the very least, it keeps the cruise line on its toes. If the passports don't match the passenger list that the cruise line submitted, that's a problem, because if countries discover that they cannot trust the cruise line to collect the right information, they will reinforce their own checks or simply stop allowing that line's ships to enter.

Edited June 2, 2017 by hawkeyetlse

[Laszlo]

Interesting thread and some good info. My wife, myself and my son are planning to do a 7 day cruise next year out of Venice September 2018. My wife and I will be arriving from the US however my son will be arrive from Skopje Cкопје Macedonia (he'll be one year into his 2 year Peace Corp tour). I wonder if their will be any issues with us booking him

[TrumpyNor]

Which countries? If it is a matter of information gathering, would a copy of the passport suffice? If not why not?

 

I usually travel to Spain or Italy, and in both countries the hotel ALWAYS asks for your passport at check-in. But they don't KEEP IT, they just make a copy of it while you wait, and hand it right back to you. The hotel have to fill in your passport details in their system and hand the information over to local authorities regularly. This is a way (for the authorities, not for the hotel management) of making "certain" you are not staying at the hotel under a false name (unless you have a fake passport - if that was the case, then of course the outcome might be a little different for you, at least in the long run).

[garycarla]

Interesting thread and some good info. My wife, myself and my son are planning to do a 7 day cruise next year out of Venice September 2018. My wife and I will be arriving from the US however my son will be arrive from Skopje Cкопје Macedonia (he'll be one year into his 2 year Peace Corp tour). I wonder if their will be any issues with us booking him

 

Can not see any problems. Nobody on the ship asked how you got there - walk, fly, another ship, another country. Only that you have a passport that is valid for where the ship is going, especially where you end.

[717373]

On our recent Greek Isles cruise on the Star, our passports were collected at the terminal in Venice, right after check-in but before boarding. We were told they would be returned when we left Greece.

 

This was the first time i ever had to surrender my passport (1 previous European cruise, plus a couple of land-based vacations). They announced at each port that you should have your room card plus photo ID with you when you went ashore, but they never checked your photo ID when you came back to the ship.

 

Since I normally carry my passport with me on shore, what would have happened if I had missed the ship & had to travel to the next port without a passport.

 

 

ALWAYS travel with a photo copy of your passport, on every cruise, and especially the ones where you know ahead that they are going to retain your passport for a day or two. While you are at it, lay any credit card you are taking and photocopy them, front and back. I won't go into the story........but those two little papers from my printer saved me from jail. Just do it. How can it hurt?

[CPT Trips]

On a small ship cruise in the Adriatic, our passports were collected. One couple was being stubborn and uncooperative. I'll paraphrase the ship's hotel director's response.

 

That's fine. Whenever the officials come aboard to process the ship, we will get you and have you bring your passport to the front desk. If you are off the ship, we will process everyone else and not let you reboard until you get cleared. The couple was also told that processing often occurred in the oh dark hundred hours. Additionally, if inspection occurred while we were ashore, our tours may not get back to the ship until after the immigration office was closed. That could be inconvenient and expensive.

 

They decided to call his bluff until the third day after they experienced a 2ish in the morning wake up and, apparently an extended processing. BTW, when our passports were returned, ours had several entry and exit stamps.

[untailored bostonian]

There are two distinct issues. How do cruise ships deal with passports, and why do they need to hold passports during the cruise? Why would a hotel request to hold your passport overnight?

 

The instances where cruise ships make this "request" clearly relate to the need to process thousands of passports before the ship can debark passengers in certain ports. The efficacy of this seems clear. I know I will feel uneasy about this when it becomes an issue for me. I think there should be a more efficient manner to clear 5000 passports in the dead of night.

 

The answer to the second is they never should have the need to keep them. Either they can record the information needed while you wait and observe, or a copy of the passport should suffice.

[717373]

I agree with all the sane heads. My point is: photocopy your passport and credit cards, drivers licenses , back and front........before you go. It will end your anxiety about letting your passport out of your hands.

When I hand over my passport, I clearly tell them that I have a copy. Usually comes out like "Heh, you care for my passport as much as I care for the photocopy"

Have never, ever, had an issue.

Cheers

[b_cruise]

i have cruised in Europe several times now on NCL, Carnival And Royal Caribbean. All kept my passport. Cruises have all been 10 days plus departing Barcelona and Venice only. Hotels I stayed at in Rome, Barcelona, Venice, Paris, Brugge, Amsterdam (list goes on), all asked to see my passport and wrote my number down but none kept it.

A lot of people on my last cruise seemed to be upset about the cruise line keeping the passport. So much so, they had to make an announcement. I really don't have an issue with it. If it is their policy, I actually trust them (silly me).

 

I do keep a photocopy on me although I have heard it really would not help if needed (although poster above said it did help them- so good to know).

[Nelsj099]

I live abroad and I have lived in difficult to travel countries like China and Russia. My only valid form of ID is my passport, outside of America they do not accept your drivers license as valid ID. I am constantly handing my passport over for extended periods of time. The first time this was uncomfortable, but suck it up this is what they need to do. They want my passport fine, I actually have a full scan of every page in my email because I needed it for some country. They often will need it for customs, registration slips, China they take it for 28 days for a work visa. I for one don't want to wait 3-4 hours to clear customs anywhere, or in the middle of the night especially on vacation.

[soccermommy]

Last year on the Spirit our passports were collected at embarkation in Venice, and returned after we left Greece. We were told that it was requested by the Greek authorities. Maybe it had something to do with our stop in Montenegro, who at the time wasn't fully part of the EU, maybe not. We never found out why. This year, in fact just 2 weeks ago, we surrendered our passports at Southampton and didn't get them back until after Ireland. The Garda stamped our passports so I have to guess Ireland wanted to see our passports. Why? Who knows?

We were in London when the Manchester attack happened. It's a little unnerving to get off at a UK port and see police with machine guns, but s little comforting since a cruise ship could be a very large temptation.

No one likes losing the control over their passports, but when in another country, we obey their rules. Considering the state of the world right now, is anyone really surprised this is becoming so common?

[eileeshb]

Last year on the Spirit our passports were collected at embarkation in Venice, and returned after we left Greece. We were told that it was requested by the Greek authorities. Maybe it had something to do with our stop in Montenegro, who at the time wasn't fully part of the EU, maybe not. We never found out why. This year, in fact just 2 weeks ago, we surrendered our passports at Southampton and didn't get them back until after Ireland. The Garda stamped our passports so I have to guess Ireland wanted to see our passports. Why? Who knows?

We were in London when the Manchester attack happened. It's a little unnerving to get off at a UK port and see police with machine guns, but s little comforting since a cruise ship could be a very large temptation.

No one likes losing the control over their passports, but when in another country, we obey their rules. Considering the state of the world right now, is anyone really surprised this is becoming so common?

Ireland and the U.K. are not members of the Schengen travel area so you'd get separate visa stamps crossing our borders unless you travel directly from the UK to Ireland as we've a common travel area of our own.

This whole topic has blown up on a couple of Facebook groups as well. I know for Irish passport holders we can also get a passport card so if your uneasy about having to surrender your passport you can always order a passport card so you have that as a backup to carry onshore. I believe more countries are offering that option to, particularly EU countries where passport cards could suffice for travel within the EU.

[bruceharper]

We were on the Jade for the Tampa-Southampton transatlantic crossing. Starting when we left the Azores, there were announcements, multiple fliers in our room, and the atrium TV showed the message about passport collection. It was done the day before arrival in Cork, Ireland, and the collection was to be done by deck*. When my wife and I finally reached the collection point, two British immigration agents (who had boarded in the Azores), scanned our U.S. passports, asked how long we were staying in England, stamped a page with an entry visa, and wished us a good trip. At the next table, NCL people collected our passports and handed us a receipt. The box was presented to the Irish immigration office in bulk to be stamped with the visa stamp. The whole process was for passengers' convenience, to avoid having to wait in long lines during the short visit to Cork and Falmouth. After departing Cork, it was just a matter of presenting the receipt at the service desk to retrieve the passports.

 

*This is one place where NCL had rules but didn't bother to enforce them. While the collection by cabin deck was supposed to balance out the crowd waiting in line, it just didn't work. It took us almost an hour and a half to get from the atrium/photo shop to the lounge due to the number of people in line. No one around us was convinced that there were that many people on the 9th deck. We talked to others later that day who had the same experience. Friends on the 4th deck (first call that morning) said when they walked up just as the collection opened there were already people waiting in line. The suspicion was that people showed up when they felt like it and going by deck was just a suggestion. If there is going to be a rule, enforce it and check room keys to make sure people are they when they are supposed to be and send away those "jumping the line" or don't have the rule and just make it another "freestyle" event.

 

Bruce in Blacksburg

[oncruisecontrol]

Interesting thread. While I'm sure the cruise lines are extremely careful while the passports are in their possession, I wonder how it would be rectified if a person's passport was lost or destroyed while in the cruise line's possession?

[mugtech]

interesting thread. While i'm sure the cruise lines are extremely careful while the passports are in their possession, i wonder how it would be rectified if a person's passport was lost or destroyed while in the cruise line's possession?

obc

[BirdTravels]

Interesting thread. While I'm sure the cruise lines are extremely careful while the passports are in their possession, I wonder how it would be rectified if a person's passport was lost or destroyed while in the cruise line's possession?

 

Not sure what you mean by "rectified". The passport is gone.

 

The passenger will have to spend a port day at their local consulate trying to get the passport replaced, that is, if the ship docks anywhere near a local consulate for the passenger. After the cruise, the passenger can file a claim for the cost of the replacement passport and be reimbursed a few months later.

[untailored bostonian]

Not sure what you mean by "rectified". The passport is gone.

 

The passenger will have to spend a port day at their local consulate trying to get the passport replaced, that is, if the ship docks anywhere near a local consulate for the passenger. After the cruise, the passenger can file a claim for the cost of the replacement passport and be reimbursed a few months later.

 

This is why even though I can see the logic, even the need, to collect and hold passenger passports, I will be uncomfortable when it happens to me.